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Author Topic: King Kong demo using Starforce copy protect-fyi  (Read 2985 times)
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DrJones
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« on: October 07, 2005, 07:43:57 PM »

The King Kong demo is using Starforce copy protection.
It is also accessing the interent when you start up the game.  The demo doesnt like Zonealarm.  And finally the mouse controls dont work for me as well.  When trying Jack I just spin around in a circle looking at the sky.  

I was interested in this game but looks like Ubisoft lost a sale.

DrJones
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2005, 07:55:01 PM »

Ugh.

Isn't this the one by the guy who did Beyond Good & Evil?

Sounds like a console game sale instead of a PC game sale.
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Nakor
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2005, 10:01:53 PM »

NO SALE

Thanks for the heads up!!
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2005, 11:15:56 PM »

Hmm.. deleting demo now.  Good thing it downloaded quickly or I'd be ticked at wasting the time to grab something I won't even run.

I have heard that Ubisoft is going to be using Starforce on all of it's PC titles.  I haven't verified it but until I do I'm not putting anything new from Ubisoft on my PC.
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2005, 12:01:34 AM »

Starforce has never bothered me from day one, but the demo won't run on pc period.  My mouse quits working the second I fire it up.  I say 'quits working', but actually what happens is the cursor stays to the left side of the screen no matter what I do with it.  Everything in the game is just twirling like I have the 'a' key pressed continuously.  Wierd.  Never happened in a game before.  Deleted it-too buggy.
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Sparhawk
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2005, 01:08:00 AM »

Odd, seems like the buzz over at Octopusoverlords.com is very good.

Yet very different here.
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DrJones
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2005, 03:12:34 AM »

I am having the same mouse gone crazy problem and it seems to be somewhat common from other sites/forums I have have seen.

DrJones
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2005, 03:16:54 AM »

Quote from: "Sparhawk"
Odd, seems like the buzz over at Octopusoverlords.com is very good.

Yet very different here.


We haven't even had any buzz, be it positive or negative, seeing as how nobody has acutally played it due to the fact it includes StarForce or simply won't run.

I'm in with the latter, especially with an f'ing demo.  It would have to be something extremely special for me to even think about risking it.

And there are now plenty of new StarForce releases hitting the 'net these last few weeks...
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2005, 04:04:54 AM »

Just my normal mode...if starforce affects me in ANY way I take 10% off the review right off the top.  Copy protection shouldn't be painful.
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2005, 04:49:47 AM »

I'm a little disappointed that this game isn't 'open-ended'

Admittedly, I didn't read any previews for it before playing the demo, though.
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2005, 05:58:17 AM »

I played the demo.  These comments are based on playing @8x6 medium settings, DX8.1 mode.(GF4ti, what can I say?)

I did 'play' at 1024x768 high, but didn't see any great increase in loveliness, beyond the usual benefits of higher resolution. Who knows, maybe a DX9 card makes all the difference?

Um,  underwhelmed is the buzzword I'd use.  Frankly, I think the graphics are ugly, specifically the backgrounds.  It's like they picked the ugliest parts of Dungeon Siege for backgrounds and put large animals in it.

Kong himself has a limited number of moves so you get bored of controlling him real quick.  Plus there's not alot for him to interact with.

The first person part takes place in a heavy rain, so everything looks drab  and washed out.  Here's a couple of examples of what it looks like:

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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2005, 12:30:04 PM »

Starforce = pass
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2005, 06:47:13 PM »

I enjoyed the demo.  Defintely looks like it will play better on a console but the it was certainly a nice looking game and the mechanics were fun and varied if not a bit simplistic.  Didn't have any technical problems either.
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Calvin
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2005, 07:11:34 PM »

All this Starforce stuff just is really getting old...how many games are you all going to force yourselves to miss because of this? It has never done squat to my or many other computers. You might as well try it!!
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2005, 07:56:02 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
All this Starforce stuff just is really getting old...how many games are you all going to force yourselves to miss because of this? It has never done squat to my or many other computers. You might as well try it!!

Eh.  If I have the choice between PS2, GC or PC versions of a game and the PC version has Starforce then then choice is pretty easy to me.

I have had Starforce games on my computer with no problems but I'm not wild about it and its gone now.
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2005, 08:22:09 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Eh.  If I have the choice between PS2, GC or PC versions of a game and the PC version has Starforce then then choice is pretty easy to me.


That's exactly where I sit.  Plus, there hasn't yet been anything so great that I've risked it.  Might work out great but I'm in no hurry to find out.

I find it rather invasive so I choose not to support those games that use it.  My wallet at work sending a $50 message.  Does it matter?  Maybe not to the publishers, but it does to me.
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Gryndyl
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2005, 05:48:23 AM »

The demo also apparently installed some sort of media viewer called "Viewpoint" on my system. I wasn't even aware of it until several hours later when it crashed a game I was playing by attempting to autoupdate itself and adding a Viewpoint toolbar to my browser. Took two uninstalls and a reboot to get rid of it. Can't say for sure that this was bundled into the demo but the demo was the only thing I'd installed all week so it makes it a pretty probable suspect.
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disarm
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2005, 04:09:48 PM »

Quote from: "Gryndyl"
The demo also apparently installed some sort of media viewer called "Viewpoint" on my system. I wasn't even aware of it until several hours later when it crashed a game I was playing by attempting to autoupdate itself and adding a Viewpoint toolbar to my browser. Took two uninstalls and a reboot to get rid of it. Can't say for sure that this was bundled into the demo but the demo was the only thing I'd installed all week so it makes it a pretty probable suspect.

i'm pretty sure that's not something from the demo...you can pick it up at various websites around the 'net, and i don't see it on my system.  as far as i can tell the demo installs and removes itself without any residuals other than the Starforce stuff.
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2005, 05:32:15 PM »

Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "Gryndyl"
The demo also apparently installed some sort of media viewer called "Viewpoint" on my system. I wasn't even aware of it until several hours later when it crashed a game I was playing by attempting to autoupdate itself and adding a Viewpoint toolbar to my browser. Took two uninstalls and a reboot to get rid of it. Can't say for sure that this was bundled into the demo but the demo was the only thing I'd installed all week so it makes it a pretty probable suspect.

i'm pretty sure that's not something from the demo...you can pick it up at various websites around the 'net, and i don't see it on my system.  as far as i can tell the demo installs and removes itself without any residuals other than the Starforce stuff.


Maybe it was attached only at the site I downloaded the demo from? Dunno. I hadn't installed anything else in the prior week, didn't go to any websites I don't ordinarily visit and my system generally screams bloody murder if anything tries to install itself while browsing.
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Crawley
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2005, 05:47:41 PM »

Quote
Maybe it was attached only at the site I downloaded the demo from?


Just to confirm, I don't see Viewpoint on my computer either after installing the demo. Nor do I see anything Starforce after uninstalling the demo.
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2005, 12:09:30 AM »

Viewpoint is your standard fare 'spyware/adware' that installs in the background.  Definitely not from this game.  Shows up on a lot of systems though. (I do virus/spyware cleaning as a large part of my work)
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mikeg
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2005, 09:45:43 PM »

Did anyone ever figure out what causes the 'everything twirling to the left' problem.  I downloaded the game again to see if that would help and nope, still can't play it at all.  It's as if I have the 'a' key continuously pressed and the screen just twirls around and around and around.  What a piece of crap demo.  Have NEVER had one do this.
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2005, 11:48:01 PM »

Quote from: "mikeg"
Did anyone ever figure out what causes the 'everything twirling to the left' problem.  I downloaded the game again to see if that would help and nope, still can't play it at all.  It's as if I have the 'a' key continuously pressed and the screen just twirls around and around and around.  What a piece of crap demo.  Have NEVER had one do this.


If you have any game controllers (gamepad, joystick, etc) attached, try unhooking them.
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disarm
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2005, 01:19:19 AM »

Quote from: "Freezer-TPF-"
Quote from: "mikeg"
Did anyone ever figure out what causes the 'everything twirling to the left' problem.  I downloaded the game again to see if that would help and nope, still can't play it at all.  It's as if I have the 'a' key continuously pressed and the screen just twirls around and around and around.  What a piece of crap demo.  Have NEVER had one do this.


If you have any game controllers (gamepad, joystick, etc) attached, try unhooking them.

that's what worked for me...unplug any controller you have and it should stop.  i tried disabling mine initially, but that wasn't enough.  you have to completely disconnect them so they're not seen by the game at all...quite a lame bug even for a demo.
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mikeg
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2005, 02:02:58 PM »

No controllers of any kind on my system.  All I have is a keyboard, mouse, and headset.    Thanks for the suggestion though.  Just not meant for me to play this baby.
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2005, 03:07:29 PM »

Okay, I figured it out.  Wierdly enough I only needed to move my keyboard to another usb port and wallah, it works.  Go figure.  As for the demo.  I really liked it.  It was fun.  Can see how it would be better control-wise on a console, but it worked well enough.  I will rent on my xbox I think.  

Cool, another game coming out that can play on my old system to tide me over for awhile til I decide whether to get the 360 some day or not.
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DrJones
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2005, 03:07:31 PM »

What keyboard do you have?  I have a Saitek gamers keyboard with the extra 9 button pad.  I had to disable the pad in order to get it to work.  Look in device manager under HID devices, something in there is causing the problem.  You have to figure out which one is causing the problem and disable it.

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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2005, 10:22:16 PM »

Yeah, I have the Saitek, but no extra number pad on mine, so, I don't see how that is the problem.  I am not sure why moving it to another usb port worked, but it did and that is all that matters.  Most anticipated this-gen game now.  Well, next to Black that is.  Nothing comes before Black for the current systems.
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2005, 05:13:54 AM »

Man, you really want to play a demo when your troubleshooting takes you so far you've actually reached the point of changing the USB hub your keyboard is on!

Glad you figured it out.  Hope it was worth it!
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2005, 12:04:19 PM »

Yeah, I know.  I pretty much decide all my game purchases on demos, so, no demo, no sale.  Pretty important.  I will get it.  I Like monsters.
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2005, 05:08:29 PM »

There is so much misinformation about Starforce around these days (it raped my babies and killed my cat!), I figured this is worth a repost (from one of the developers, who is a regular Shacker):
------------------------------------
Lie #1: Starforce is a gateway for viruses and trojan horses on your PC.
Completely false
No virus currently exists that use Starforce to gain access to your PC. Besides why would someone take time to write one when they have more then enough exploits to use in IE/Windows ?

Lie #2: Hackers will hack Starforce a day after the game is released
Mostly false
We monitored very closely the warez scene when SC:CT came out to see if using Starforce was worth it. It took atleast two-three months before a good and workable no-cd solution was found by hackers. It DID make a difference in sale numbers for the PC version. Remember that games make the bulk of their sales in the first month of their release.
I say this lie is mostly false since I have no idea how other Starforce-using games fared.

Like #3: Starforce won't let my run Alcohol 120%/Deamon tools/etc
False
This used to be true with the earlier versions of SF. This is not true anymore. Stop saying it does ok smile

Lie #4: Demos don't need to use Starforce
Somewhat
You need to understand how part of SF works to get this. One aspect of the copy protection of SF is that it hides actual c++ functions from the game executable and instead puts them in the starforce stub that gets added to the encoded and protected exe. That means that once hackers have bypassed the SF cd-check, when running the game they will notice that certain things do not work. Used functions can go from font drawing fonctions to file loading functions up to AI functions. What happens when you release a demo without starforce included, is that all those useful functions hidden in the retail game can be easily found and copied from the demo executable by the hackers. This heavily reduces the time it takes to crack and hack the game.

Alas, for SC:CT, the demo we released did not include SF protection. But we could get away with it because our demo was out three months before the master version and we added major features that could be hidden and crippled in the retail version. This is not something that is possible when your demo is feature complete and you won't be adding any new/important features by the time the retail version is out. Like for instance the King Kong game that is supposed to ship in less then a month.

SF also hides/encodes some of the binary game data to throw off the hackers. What happens is that two versions of the data is on the cd, one good hidden by starforce, the other easily spotted by most hackers. When hackers are finally able to bypass the cd-check, the game will instead use the second set of binary data, for instance, level data. The non-hidden levels will be almost identical to the real ones, but they will contain voluntary show-stopping bugs/crashes that occur rarely or at very specific moments. Hackers will think the game plays fine and the protection was bypassed, but gamers using the copied version will have weird crashes and probably won't be able to finish the game.

The truly depressing part about this is the amount of tech support calls/emails reported for warez-only crashes. They happen much more often then any sane person would imagine.

Lie #5: Starforce physically destroyed my HD/RAID/PC
Doubtful
I wish I had more information regarding this issue since its the worst problem people say they have with SF. I think if anyone has actual concrete proof regarding this issue, they should just bring the game/starforce cie to court. I will just say that from my programming experience, I think the actual problem resides more on the hardware manufacturer/user configuration then on the SF drivers.

Truth: Starforce games don't work on my PC
True
Starforce is known to have difficulties with specific drives and specific firmwares. But what people fail to realise is that all copy protection solutions have problems with specific hardware. I can't remember if SF has a higher % of problems and I would not doubt it if it was true. The drawback with SF here is that users can't find a no-cd crack to circumvent it and thus can't actually play their game. Yes that is bad. Yes that is something the devs find annoying, regretful and wish we could get rid of.
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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2005, 12:50:19 PM »

I am sure Sony said the same thing.
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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2005, 01:18:21 PM »

Notable by their absence:

1. Starforce appears to have affected my optical drive's burn speed.

2. Starforce appears to have affected my USB ports and now I don't have the functionality I used to have before Starforce.

I've heard the above two complaints from enough people that I tend to believe it either does or has happened.  The fact that he doesn't address either is telling.



Note: I actually installed Starforce to see what would happen.  The answer?  Nothing.  I had it on my computer for a week with no problems at all.  But this was a month ago.  Earlier versions may have been more problematic.
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2005, 10:04:55 PM »

Quote
 Earlier versions may have been more problematic.


This seems to be the recent concensus.

Quote
Lie #5: Starforce physically destroyed my HD/RAID/PC
Doubtful


Doubtful?  :shock:

Quote
I will just say that from my programming experience, I think the actual problem resides more on the hardware manufacturer/user configuration then on the SF drivers.


He thinks? He thinks?
 :roll:
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