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Author Topic: Killzone 2.  (Read 2668 times)
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denoginizer
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« on: July 10, 2007, 02:09:38 PM »

I just read that Sony is holding a separate 90 minute event after their main presentation to unveil Killzone 2.  I remember all of the controversy about the Killzone 2 "demo" back when it was first announced.  I am hoping they are able to come close to the look of that demo during this unveiling.  This could be the game that makes me want a PS3.  Unlike most people I enjoyed Killzone 1 quite a bit.  I also liked Killzone Liberation on the PSP.  So the universe seems interesting to me.

Anybody else looking forward to this unveiling?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 02:18:11 PM »

Sony's confidence on this unveiling is interesting- after all of the backlash over the CGI at E3 2 years ago, I almost expected them to sort of sweep it under the rug- "Well here's Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank.  Oh yeah, and Killzone 2, but anyway back to Uncharted!".  So hopefully their separate presentation tonight means they feel like they really have the goods to withstand the inevitable backlash.

There was a screenshot released today and it's not particularly impressive but it also doesn't show much either so it's not enough to really get a read on the game. 
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 02:23:36 PM »

Uh, did E3 happen already?  Damn, I'm looking forward to tonight.

From what I hear, they might show Killzone at the normal press event, at least a teaser, but then have something playable for the private event.

Sony can only be confident of the game if they actually have it playable.  Otherwise, they have no hope of countering the Halo 3 announcement.
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 02:26:23 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 10, 2007, 02:23:36 PM

From what I hear, they might show Killzone at the normal press event, at least a teaser, but then have something playable for the private event.

Killzone's "private" event is tonight following MS's conference.  Sony's conference isn't until tomorrow morning so there should already be media and reports on KZ2 before Sony's event. 
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denoginizer
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 02:27:27 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 10, 2007, 02:18:11 PM

So hopefully their separate presentation tonight means they feel like they really have the goods to withstand the inevitable backlash.

My thoughts exactly. 

I saw that screenshot at Q23.  It does look like a bad capture.  My question is why would they allow that shot to be the first one out there?
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 02:36:02 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on July 10, 2007, 02:27:27 PM

I saw that screenshot at Q23.  It does look like a bad capture.  My question is why would they allow that shot to be the first one out there?

I'm guessing because they want it to be a tease.  So much of next gen is about animation, effects, and basically seeing everything in video form (CoD 4 for example is far more impressive in motion than in screenshot form) that Sony would probably like the big unveiling to be a video for the mass market and playable for the press.  But if you want to get into USA Today and the mainstream press then they need a screenshot and something like they released is so cryptic that it meets the press needs without showing too much before the event.

Or at least that's my guess. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 02:38:35 PM »

I am pretty excited about it as well-I think the reason they are making such a big deal out of it is because its probably very good smile At least I hope so.
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 03:27:26 PM »

The screenshot is terrible.  Blocky shadow filtering, one light source, flat background, and a relatively boring gameplay situation.  Seems like a situation where the wrong shot was grabbed, to me.  But why that one would even be up for consideration is another question entirely.

That said, everything I've heard about the demo indicates that it will look amazing.  Wonder if it's slated for this year.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 03:30:13 PM by kathode » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 03:41:12 PM »

I heard they are running the demo on the Wii  icon_wink
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 05:39:47 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 10, 2007, 03:41:12 PM

I heard they are running the demo on the Wii  icon_wink
Are they really? So there's really a game on the horizon. I'm pretty sure the teaser dropped 2 years ago....finally we have something.
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 05:56:19 PM »

Quote from: jimmyorr99 on July 10, 2007, 05:39:47 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 10, 2007, 03:41:12 PM

I heard they are running the demo on the Wii  icon_wink
Are they really? So there's really a game on the horizon. I'm pretty sure the teaser dropped 2 years ago....finally we have something.

actually it was a reference to the first showing of KZ2.  Sorry, no Wii version.
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 06:05:38 PM »

I don't think the graphics will be far from that teaser trailer...

Killzone was a remarkably beautiful game for its generation.

I'm excited!
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 11:19:16 PM »

There's no doubt they can get the characters looking that good, but they'll have to simplify the backgrounds.

However, as many people agree, good artistic design trumps pure technical power any day.  The Killzone developers have already shown they know how to handle artistic designs, especially the gritty warzone.

But the real key is, how are they going to handle the 4 teammates you had in the original Killzone, or the generic mooks that you fight with?  The original was about a group of 4 commandos basically.
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 02:27:53 AM »

I don't understand the hype for Killzone 2, I thought the first one wasn't anything special? I didn't play it myself but that's what the concensus seemed to be.
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 02:54:21 AM »

It was actually pretty good.  Not great, but the combination of great art design, interesting characters, decent story, great weapons, and really good battle grit feel to the game made it a moderate success.  The animations for the game were great too, although perhaps not for people who get motion sick.  Every action you did had a first person animation to it.  Reloading your gun slightly lowered the screen and in an almost shakey cam style looking through the soldiers eyes your character would slap in a new magazine, same for stepping up over low obstacles and such.  The weapons had a great semi-realistic feel where the weapons felt plausible, but gave a nice kick and oomph that cinematic weapons had.  And I just have to say that the art design (not the actual graphics) but the design did gritty war zone just as well, if not better, than Gears of War years before Gears came out.

It was damn clear that the developers worked their butts off for the game and had planned a great game.  What brought the game down as a whole was the old PS2 hardware, which by the time of its release was practically ancient.  It simply wasn't able to handle the kind of game Killzone 1 was. This led to some inconsistencies.  For example the AI was poor, you had some AI teammates which was still a new thing for the time, but their AI suffered from the same.  The game was also supposed to have 4 different playable characters, but they weren't that different in practice, and only one of them was on screen at a time.

So people have their hopes up for the PS3 version since the hardware is no longer a limitation.

There's a leaked screenshot, it's only okay, turns out the shot was a tiny thing given to newspapers that someone blew up in photoshop.
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 03:36:28 AM »

I enjoyed Killzone and agree that it's major limitation was the hardware.  Not a great game but very good and worth playing IMO. 
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2007, 05:32:37 AM »

(Image was fake, removed.  It was basically a Helghan sitting in a field of tall grass.)

This is actually the second leaked screenshot.  However I cannot confirm if it's real, and I've been very wrong before.  The first one looked like crap, washed out and grainy, and there's still doubt to its authenticity.  This one is interesting.  Looks like they've gone for a stylized look.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 08:10:36 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 05:33:37 AM »

Hopefully they'll be a lot more media when I wake up but that shot looks pretty good. 
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 05:41:18 AM »

Apparently that first shot is a blown-up shot given to publications to run as a small picture...

The second is much more believable, and I really think the footage we're going to see is going to blow the atrocious Halo 3 trailer we saw at the end of the MS Conference out of the water.
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 08:14:26 AM »

Embargo over, IGN's impressions and screenshots.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/803/803129p1.html

Key notes:

Quote
Tonight's demo opened very similarly to what we saw two years ago. Clouds canvassed the screen until a soldier's head crept into view. He and others on his "cargo" vessel converse in short and abrupt sentences about how they're on their way to certain death. The scene is extremely similar to the lead-up to the invasion on Normandy Beach - certain hell is ahead, and the soldiers can't help but hold on to their helmets and hope to make it to the war zone intact and actually have a fighting chance.

Quote
The opening was once again fantastic, but we couldn't help but sit there and think, "When are we finally going to see some in-game footage?" The only thing was that we had been looking at in-game footage. As soon as our soldier hits the ground and his gun comes into view, very much like what we saw with the opening to Resistance, we couldn't help but think, "Holy hell, all of that was in-game?"

http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/3631/105730.jpg
http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/3631/105729.jpg
http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/3631/105731.jpg

So basically, they recreated the trailer shown previously, then took over from the point you get off the landing craft and the developer starts playing the game.  They say the graphics are close to what was shown, and in many areas they get very, very close.  They specifically note very high polygon detail, but a lower texture detail, meaning less normals and bumps, but a ton more polys.  Also said the level they show uses 2GB, probably uncompressed on the bluray disc.

Finally, the mention that the new full trailer goes up at 3pm on the PSN, after the Sony conference I guess.  Hoo boy, I'm excited, I knew Guerrilla wouldn't disappoint.

Looks like Sony is back in the FPS arena.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 08:42:44 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 10:21:59 AM »

Looks good, I think I will enjoy this more than Halo 3. 

At least it brings my PS3 wanted list up to.....2.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2007, 12:41:47 PM »

That second shot looks really nice.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 12:44:20 PM »

You can see the trailer here also.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/11/killzone-2-at-e3-revisited/


Looks good.  I don't think it is even close to that CG trailer from a few years ago.  To me it looks alot like Gears.  Which is not a bad thing. 
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2007, 12:50:19 PM »

Yeah, it doesn't look as good as the render from 2 years ago (the character models have taken the biggest hit IMO).  However it looks really damn good still and a damn sight better than I expected as of about two weeks ago.

Since I thought tech was the main thing holding the original back, color me optimistic.  I'm definitnely looking forward to the game now. 
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2007, 02:25:04 PM »

Link to HD version of trailer:

http://gametrailers.com/player/21504.html
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 02:39:08 PM »

That looked nice biggrin

True ragdoll, beautiful landscape, game looks wonderful.
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM »

Via Kotaku:

"I think Killzone 2 is probably the most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 03:37:59 PM »

Looks like I may have found the second of 5 PS3 exclusives to warrant getting a PS3.  I can't remember if I ever finished the first game though.
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2007, 04:00:57 PM »

Looks very nice, technically speaking.  From a personal taste perspective, I think it's desaturated to a fault.  We argue a lot at work here about saturation levels.  Next time it comes up I'm pulling up this trailer.  It's practically sepia-toned. 

Quote
It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

Tough call between this and Halo.  I'd give the technical edge to this one, with the caveat that the Halo trailer showed much more variation in environments and gameplay.  Which is to be expected I suppose, given Halo is due out in a couple months.  Also on the personal taste level, I appreciated the more lively art direction of Halo 3, so far.  I'm sure there's much more to come on this one though.  Comparisons are probably silly given that this isn't due out for this year, is it?
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2007, 04:03:37 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM

Via Kotaku:

"I think Killzone 2 is probably the most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

But not better than a number of other games we've already seen.

Always get a kick out of PS3 devs that keep talking about how much space it takes(The Resistance guys were saying it too) to try and make people think its only possible on Blu-Ray...


Ohh yea and is this game going to ever use anything besides grey in its color scheme?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 04:07:50 PM by Jumangi » Logged
denoginizer
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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2007, 04:19:44 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on July 11, 2007, 04:03:37 PM

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM

Via Kotaku:

"I think Killzone 2 is probably the most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

But not better than a number of other games we've already seen.

Always get a kick out of PS3 devs that keep talking about how much space it takes(The Resistance guys were saying it too) to try and make people think its only possible on Blu-Ray...

If they can achieve Gears level graphic fidelity with Halo 3 environment size that would be quite an achievement.  They need to get this out before we start seeing Gears 2 previews though or else they will still come accross as an also ran.  If I had seen this trailer before I played GoW I'd be more blown away.

There is something about the post apocalyptic future battlefield setting of Gears and Killzone that appeals to me.  If this game is coming out next year it probably should look better than Halo 3.  But then again Halo 3 is not about graphics. 
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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2007, 05:17:09 PM »

I think this is equal to Gears in terms of artistic design, I don't think the engine is pushing the same kind of tech.  For instance, UE3 as of late is very heavy into texture effects.  This engine seems more intent on pushing polys.

However, it's equal to Gears or better depending on the person to Gear's art style, which is gritty warzone.  Where Gears put texture details and bumps everywhere, Killzone 2 goes more industrial in their designs.  Although, I suspect part of the reason for lack of texture detail is that the PS3 is a little short of texture memory, and they hadn't put their streaming technology in game yet.

I don't think you can draw a direct comparison to Halo 3's art style beyond the fact that it's two first person games.  Halo has always had larger open areas to fight in and that always has called for a decrease in detail, but you also get some big fights in beautiful looking expanses.  Killzone 2, so far, looks more like Gears where it's a corridor shooter, but that could change as we see more.

Having seen the trailer, yeah, it's not as close as the CG trailer, but you have to admit it comes damn close at certain points.  One thing I like is how much weight all the animations have, something I really liked in Killzone 1.

You're right about the desaturation levels, but actually I think that's because the game takes place primarily on Helgha, which is a nasty grey kind of place.  It's all artistic design though and it works.  Helgha, and the Helghan art style is grey, black, and red.  Faulting them for using an appropriate color scheme is like faulting Halo for being too neon and rainbow colored.  Although I do hope they have some different environments in game so mix up the color palette.

I suspect Gears 2 won't push the graphics level that much higher technically, beyond better shaders and lighting, but they'll ratchet up the fights and encounters no doubt so they'll still be comparable.

Also, I'm interested in the gameplay mechanics.  The mention there's a cover system in place, just like Gears, GRAW, and R6 Vegas, however it doesn't take you out of first person.  I suspect you'll use the sixaxis motion sensors to tilt the controller and lean out from cover.  You can also blind fire, all in first person, but not sure how useful that'll be.

It looks like the sarge on the landing craft is Rico, no sign of Yahn though.  The ISA gun now has an auto fire mode, where before it was 3 round burst only, interesting.

Edit - A note from the devs, Guerilla:

Quote
Hey folks.
I'm a little busy at the moment, but I have to say something!

First of all. WHAT DID I SAY? Did I lie? It IS one of our most important games, in the history of SONY Computer Entertainment. And I hope you like it!

And I am not finished yet:

- Don't forget one thing: This game is PRE-pre-alpha! So, not PRE-Alpha, PRE-PRE! So, please don't start some "Hey, can you see that texture poppin' up! PLEASE, stop it, ok?
There will be much more details, effects and so on. Give us some time.

- Second: Half of the animations are still NOT in the game so, it will look MUCH MUCH better in the final game. Yes, we said it: The animations are matching the target render. Maybe it looks even better in the final game.

- third: Is there already a video out? I get no info here, because the conference is killing us (with joy). If so, enjoy it! If not, playstation storewill have it. You have to see it in HD to believe it.

So, wait for the conference for more info.
You saw NOTHING yet!

bye

So, still lots of work to do, can only look better.  I loved the animation in Killzone, although it's probably mocap, if it's not that's amazing.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 06:16:55 PM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2007, 06:30:38 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM

Via Kotaku:

"I think Killzone 2 is probably the most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

deadhorse
Put the stick down, man.

This is the second time you've mentioned H3 in this thread.

Killzone looks decent. I've been burned by the Sony Hype before; I'm waiting for the dust to settle before I "believe" this thing.
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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2007, 06:32:35 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2007, 05:17:09 PM

You're right about the desaturation levels, but actually I think that's because the game takes place primarily on Helgha, which is a nasty grey kind of place.  It's all artistic design though and it works.  Helgha, and the Helghan art style is grey, black, and red.  Faulting them for using an appropriate color scheme is like faulting Halo for being too neon and rainbow colored.  Although I do hope they have some different environments in game so mix up the color palette.
I wouldn't fault it for being desaturated, which I agree is appropriate to these kinds of games.  But I think they're going a little too far.  Mainly personal taste, but when I look at something like Gears I can appreciate how they achieved a war-torn look without sucking out ALL the color from the scene smile  I'm sure they'll find ways to keep it varied throughout the game, though.
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2007, 11:05:34 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 11, 2007, 03:37:59 PM

Looks like I may have found the second of 5 PS3 exclusives to warrant getting a PS3.  I can't remember if I ever finished the first game though.

My exact thoughts.  I am looking for that core set of games to warrant the purchase, and this one just shot to the top.  Now, give me 3 more and I am IN!  May take a year, but....
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« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2007, 12:12:06 AM »

Quote from: Purge on July 11, 2007, 06:30:38 PM

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM

Via Kotaku:

"I think Killzone 2 is probably the most impressive game I've seen so far at E3."

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

deadhorse
Put the stick down, man.

This is the second time you've mentioned H3 in this thread.

It's called "comparing similar games."
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« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2007, 01:14:52 AM »

Maybe i'm not understanding what the hype is about?

Animations looked really good, but the low-res textures and lack of mapping stood out.








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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2007, 01:48:00 AM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 05:41:18 AM

The second is much more believable, and I really think the footage we're going to see is going to blow the atrocious Halo 3 trailer we saw at the end of the MS Conference out of the water.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on July 11, 2007, 02:40:18 PM

It DEFINITELY looks better than Halo 3.

Killzone2 will likely get an attach rate of 50%+ simply because it's likely going to be the best shooter on the platform. I reserve judgement on both Halo2 and KZ2; neither are released. Based on two years ago, Killzone two is going to make me it's bitch. slywink It's been drastically scaled back, and the immersion on it is not near what we saw at E3 of yesteryears.

I really want to see some grade A titles come to the platform as I think the market competition is good for gamers. I can't afford both systems so I've kinda got my stake in the ground and there isn't enough "resistance" for me to move it.

Killzone one was dubbed (before release) a Halo killer. Halo2 did just fine, and KZ suffered for it. Killzone 2 is likely going to get "Halo 3 killer" labelled to it and if it doesn't completely destroy the competition (which I suspect will NOT be the case) it means that the stigma might overwhelm it (press-wise) as it did to the predecessor.

Once it's being heralded as the next big thing, the game doesn't get rated on its merits, it is given a > < question, and if it falls short of a popular, accessible and fine-tuned game like the Halo series, it may well end up being a "me too" title rather than reigning champion. The established franchise is pretty hard to dethrone, considering Halo 2 is still widely played to this day.
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« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2007, 02:16:13 AM »

I just watched the Halo 3 trailer from the marketplace.  Call me a fanboy but I really liked it.  It's a completely different vibe than Killzone 2.  But the H3 trailer reminded me what I love about Halo games.  Outstanding controls, fun vehicle play, great level design, and Master Chief kicks ass.  Plus single player is only about 10% of the Halo experience for me.  I still play Halo 2 multiplayer at least once a week to this day.  I think it's funny that people can call Killzone 2 a Halo killer after watching a 2 minute trailer.  Killzone 2 looks good.  But let's not get carried away just yet.
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Turtle
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« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2007, 08:25:06 AM »

I'm not getting carried away, I like the Halo series.  But I also really liked Killzone 1, Killzone Liberation, and from the looks of 2, I'll like that one too.

I don't think the two can be directly compared other than the basic first person shooter genre points.  They seem to have different focuses.  Halo is basically a space opera with a single supersoldier against a theocratic alien collective.  Killzone is more an allegory to world war 2 with space nazis and a coalition of democratic worlds against them.

And of course, Halo 3 is much farther along than Killzone 2.  Killzone 2 is isn't anywhere near alpha stage.  As you mention above, they didn't have all their texture technology in place such as texture streaming, which results in lower texture quality.  I do have to say that I like the industrial design of Killzone better than Halo, but Bungie so far does future tech landscapes better.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 08:28:38 AM by Turtle » Logged
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