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Author Topic: Just played Thief: Deadly Shadows  (Read 10980 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: May 05, 2004, 04:01:52 AM »

I have the PC build...let me assure you, there is nothing to worry about.  The game is fully intact and is as fun as you remember it to be.  Man of the minor frustrations with the original seem solved and some of the coolest implementations for stuff like lockpicking are in place.  I'll be doing a full hands-on preview of the Xbox code (hopefully just before E3) but let me tell you about this lockpicking:

You have two picks.  You begin lockpicking by moving the first pick around until you find 'the sweet spot' where you get the most movement on the circular tumbler.  Then you adjust what can only be described as pitch and depth to pop that tumbler.  This isn't a 'Splinter Cell" rapid wiggle lockpick method...this requires some skill and practice.  Its been a while since I was actually worried that somebody might walk by when I was 'liberating' their prized possessions...

I'll answer any questions you guys have in here and try to work it into my full preview.
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2004, 04:13:09 AM »

Sounds like it's going to be good.

1. What are your system specs and how did it run?

2. How large are the levels compared the first two?

thanks
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2004, 04:18:39 AM »

Well, my PC is an Athlon 2000 w/ 768mb PC2700 DDR RAM and an ATI Radeon 9600 (128mb) @ 1024x768 with shadow options maxed and it ran fairly close to flawlessly.  

As for the level size....I'll have to play through a little more to figure out an answer to that question.  I'll tell you this, the lighting engine used it fantastic, an important thing for a game like this.
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2004, 12:36:53 PM »

Sounds good but I think I'm going to have to go with the PC version on this one...if nothing else then just for the much higher resolution (since I don't have HDTV).

How is the lockpicking working though...mouse only or mouse/keyboard combo?

Also, any ideas yet on the AI of the guards and other NPCs?
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2004, 01:01:22 PM »

Well, sound makes a huge difference in this game so far.  You so much as forget to creep and the guards are looking around, but not too hard.  You accidentally bump into a barrell and send it careening into the ground, they'll be looking for you with a little more zeal.  

To answer your question, the lockpicking is mouse only for the PC version.  I'll know more on the Xbox version soon.  

The AI seems pretty sharp thus far, but it is probably too early to make a comment really.  I'll know more tonight when I can play it some more.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2004, 01:35:05 PM »

I'd really like to know how important DD5.1 audio is in the Xbox version - that might be the selling point for me with regards to PC vs. Xbox
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 01:39:27 PM »

I should have the Xbox build in the next few days, I'll let you know as I have a DD5.1 rig for my Xbox.
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2004, 01:50:23 PM »

Considering audio has always been the most crucial part of the Thief games, I imagine they would take the fullest advantage of Xbox's 5.1 setup.

Having said that, I'll still purchase this for the PC. I'm also very curious on how large the levels are in comparison to, say, Thief and Deus Ex 2.
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2004, 03:27:05 PM »

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell us about load zones. How frequent are they within missions? How big are the individual zones?

Could you elaborate on what "minor annoyances" have beeb removed? Just curious as to what you meant by that.

Thanks!!!!!!
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2004, 03:56:10 PM »

Can you roam around the city(robbing nobles if need be :lol: ) in between missions?

A little bit of non-linear action would be great if it's implemented properly.
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2004, 05:47:47 PM »

Quote from: "JCC"
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell us about load zones. How frequent are they within missions? How big are the individual zones?

Actually, this is what I want to know as well, as that basically killed Deus Ex 2 for me on the PC. smile

Tim
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2004, 06:49:08 PM »

Hi there, Knightshade Dragon!

An odd question: is there still some of that industrial-rock music in the cutscenes? Both trailers had generic movie music...
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2004, 03:06:20 AM »

Sounds great. If the budget gives me a break when this releases, it's as good as purchased.
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2004, 02:59:32 PM »

Sweet.  I Can't wait to play it myself.  

Love the forum!
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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2004, 08:01:11 PM »

BUMP!

Please Knightshade Dragon.... I am BEGGING you.... PLEASE PLEASE tell me about the load zones! This question has been haunting me for months! Can you please give us an idea of how big the zones are and how frequent they are within a single mission? Pretty please?
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2004, 08:29:15 PM »

Tonight, I swear.  As soon as I get home I'll play for a little bit and reply here, you have my word.
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2004, 09:36:34 PM »

Thanks! smile

(Waiting anxiously!)
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2004, 03:42:53 AM »

Can I ask what difficulty level your playing and settings for the following:
AI combat
AI awareness
And would it be possible to check some guard reactions on different difficulty settings?
Are blue streaks togglable?
Thanx.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2004, 04:20:21 AM »

Ok, so here is the skinny thus far:

The levels are fairly large.  The first area is a smaller training area which is pretty linear.  The second area is a far larger castle area where you will end up stealing a very large opal directly from underneath the nose of a noble Lord.  As you dig around the castle you find out that there is more going on than your initial recon suggested.  I've played this one area without loading for over 30 minutes.  When you do load, it is kinda cheezy.  You will see some billowing smoke-type area and as you walk towards it it tells you that you are about to leave.  Its not a big deal, but it does put a chip into the immersion level.  That said...I only encountered the one load zone thus far in this level.

The enemy AI is fairly intellegent.  Folks walk around and carry about their daily lives.  Guards sneak off and try to avoid work, maidens gossip about eachother, and Lords horde and count their money.  The areas have several paths to victory.  You can take out the guard with a broadhead and hide his body, pop open the front door, and make your way to your objectives.  You can also climb a ladder and run along the parapets to get in via a side entrance.  A third options would be to dodge in the shadows and slip in the front door without a trace.  Because I'm a terrible thief, I got caught by a wandering maiden.  She screamed and ran to get a guard for help.  The guard brought a torch (mobile light source!  A thief's worst enemy) and remarked "Ooh, he is gone! He must have seen me go get help" to which the guard scoffed "Well, he's not gonna stand around and wait for us is he??"  It was pretty cool.  When I engaged the enemy to test things out the guard was putting a serious dent in me pretty quick with his longsword as I darted about with my dagger.  The racket and their yelling will bring friends fairly quickly, so it is till best to avoid combat.  If you are winning they may decide that they have had enough and drop their weapon giving up the fight.  Its nice to see that not every paid guard will fight to the death for their Lord.  Another neat feature is that if you run around enough the guards will taunt you and chase you, but eventually they will have to stop and rest.  They will put their hands on their knees and lean over panting.  They also recognize what you are doing and make comments like "Oh sure, just keep running Taffer!"  Its pretty cool.  They will also become very aware of you and will chase you into the darkness to a degree.  They won't just give up if they can't easily see you.  

The sound is a HUGE factor in this game, just as before.  If you are picking a lock you can hear the guards coming up behind you.  This isn't half as nerve wracking as when you are picking a lock and you hear somebody approaching from the other side of the door!  It makes for an interesting experience as you have to be far more aware of your surroundings, just as in the previous two titles.  You kick over a steel bucket, the world is gonna know.

As for the industrial rock music, let me get back to you on that...same thing with the between-mission robberies (although I know you can do that, I'll just get back to you on how well its done)

- I'm playing on Normal Difficulty
- I'll check the guard reactions on Hard to see what happens
- I don't think you can disable the water arrow streaks
- I'll answer more questions tomorrow and try to get some screenshots for ya. smile
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2004, 05:36:30 AM »

How long did it take to load after going into the smoke?
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2004, 11:30:41 AM »

The loading is pretty quick.  All of about 10 seconds or less.
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2004, 12:16:09 PM »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh. Well, it doesn't sound too bad yet. Considering that in Deus Ex 2, the first load happened within 5 minutes. Here's to hoping.
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2004, 12:41:08 PM »

How does leaning work? Can you shoot the bow while leaning?

What about the coloristics? Some screenshots looked almost monochromatic while others had bright colours in them.
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2004, 01:04:01 PM »

Well, the leaning is simply the ability to back against a wall and do a ninja-like lean out to the left or right.  I've not tried to fire the bow but I imagine that you could probably do so.  I'll try it tonight.

As for the colors, there are plenty, but when you douse the lights its pretty dim and dark, as you might expect.   Of course, that all changes when a guard comes bobbing by with a torch.  From pure darkness to pretty well lit in a few short seconds really shows off the power of this lighting engine.  If you can't tell, I'm impressed thus far. smile
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2004, 01:38:19 PM »

Thanks for the info KD!
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2004, 01:45:40 PM »

Yes, thank you very much! biggrin

Are you playing in fpp or tpp? How does backing up against a wall look like in fpp?
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2004, 02:26:29 PM »

Since it was the most drastic change I'm keeping with the 3rd person view to see how it affects my experience.  I've not used 1st person yet.  I'll add that to the 'to do' list.  You do use 1st person for things that should be first person though, like using the bow.  It really isn't distracting that I can see yet...time will tell as I hit other levels and obstacles.
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2004, 03:10:59 PM »

More questions smile

How many animated cutscenes are there? They are all supposed to be in a common format, so you could just check the game folder for them.

I know there is no swimmable water in the game, but have you seen any water at all? (puddles, ankle deep water etc.) It's an important atmosphere factor for many people.
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« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2004, 03:42:53 PM »

I wonder, if the game still has those typical Thief cut-scenes? Y'know the ones with cool tidbits from the forgers, the hammerites, and accompanied by that cool metallic otherworldly music? I loved those.

Reliance upon others
is weakness
for the strong,
but strength
for the weak.

Wisdom and balance
lie in knowing
your own nature
over time.

- Chronicles of the Metal Age
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« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2004, 03:57:12 PM »

To answer the question about the movies, yes there are movies, and there are quite a few from a quick scan of the folder.  (I'll get the exact amt tonight, but I do recall that it was 650mb worth)  It appears to be the same artist for the cutscenes and voiceover for Garret.  I love the artwork in this game...

FYI, the PC version is 3 CDs.
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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2004, 04:24:43 PM »

Yes, the actor who does Garrett's voice is the same - it's Stephen Russell. He also did some other voices for the Thief games, for example Benny the guard. Can you tell I'm a fan? :lol:

So what about the water?
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« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2004, 04:35:08 PM »

Not that I've seen yet, but I've not been in any areas that should have water either. slywink
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« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2004, 05:01:06 PM »

Knightshade Dragon, could you tell us more about:

1) the locations (what did you see?);

2) AI types (have you seen any undeads?);

3) climbing gloves.
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« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2004, 05:07:44 PM »

So are you having any lump in your throat moments?Although first person might help with this.Are you feeling like your in danger?
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« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2004, 08:04:50 PM »

Ion Stom has FINALLY commented on load zones. Apparently each mission only has 2 zones. Meaning, each individual mission is divided into 2 zone halves.

I guess if we have to put up with load zones, only having two is the ideal situation. I personally would have sacrificed graphics for no load zones, but that's just me...
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« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2004, 08:13:22 PM »

Depending on the size of the levels, I won't be too bothered by this, especially since Ron said the loading times (on his machine) were only around 10 seconds or so. And if it's only half and half, that's a lot less than what I was originally fearing.
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« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2004, 11:34:59 PM »

I noted this topic at the Eidos Thief forums, and decided to have a look at what's going on here.

Quite frankly, I'm here only to pass by and I'm mercilessly eating your database only for posting a question or two (or perhaps three).

1. I already know that Thief III (or DS) supports both 1st and 3rd views, and that they in fact can be switched by pressing a single button. I'm also aware that IS itself has advertised that they're both fully supported.
However, I've seen only 3rd view movies lately, and I'm beginning to waver. I know that you added 1st view into your "to-do" list, but I still ask you to do it again.

As an example, does the leaning work the same way in 1st view as it did in the first games or is it not supported at all?

2. The dagger, I've hated it since I heard that we can't use swords at all. In yet, I'd like to know if one still could put up a fight with an armed & alarmed guard with a sword by blocking him (as surreal as it may sound) and striking him "into the weak points" or is it just generic "click the button and hope" play.
From the movies I've get to fear that the dagger-fight is only clicking buttons instead of aiming the strikes as we kinda did in the first games.

3. Arrows, do they stick into the scenery like wooden walls or even better, in opponents? I'm sad for those blue lines while I'm too shy to launch an adress for that on the Thief forums.

4. When one approaches the target-residence (assuming that the player in fact gets to travell between missions), does the game handle the switch between the City and, say, the castle with a fancy loading screen representing a neverthless location from the castle or does Garrett have to find a way into the castle on his own and by his own means like finding a weak spot in the curtain wall or by unlocking the portcullis?

Thanks in advance and my congratulations for getting your hands on that game.
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2004, 06:31:24 AM »

Welcome Kwessa, hopefully you find enough to convince you to stay here, but I'll answer your questions just the same:

Quote
1. I already know that Thief III (or DS) supports both 1st and 3rd views, and that they in fact can be switched by pressing a single button. I'm also aware that IS itself has advertised that they're both fully supported.
However, I've seen only 3rd view movies lately, and I'm beginning to waver. I know that you added 1st view into your "to-do" list, but I still ask you to do it again.
Not to worry, a quick tap of a key and you are in first person mode.  They are indeed both fully supported, as is the lean function.



Quote
2. The dagger, I've hated it since I heard that we can't use swords at all. In yet, I'd like to know if one still could put up a fight with an armed & alarmed guard with a sword by blocking him (as surreal as it may sound) and striking him "into the weak points" or is it just generic "click the button and hope" play.
From the movies I've get to fear that the dagger-fight is only clicking buttons instead of aiming the strikes as we kinda did in the first games.
Ehh..pretty much.  There isn't a ton of finesse in the dagger combat, but we aren't supposed to get that close unless we are backstabbing anyway, are we??  :twisted:

Quote
3. Arrows, do they stick into the scenery like wooden walls or even better, in opponents? I'm sad for those blue lines while I'm too shy to launch an adress for that on the Thief forums.  
 Yes, yes they do.  You can stick an arrow into a wooden support beam and then pull it back out of the beam and re-use it.  Sadly, once they are in a corpse, they are part and parcel to that corpse...you aren't getting them back.

Quote
4. When one approaches the target-residence (assuming that the player in fact gets to travell between missions), does the game handle the switch between the City and, say, the castle with a fancy loading screen representing a neverthless location from the castle or does Garrett have to find a way into the castle on his own and by his own means like finding a weak spot in the curtain wall or by unlocking the portcullis?
Well, you get to travel in the expansive city (with multiple shops!) between missions and listen in on other thieves to scoop up their work, steal their loot stash, or just make your way to your next objective.  
As for loading, you usually get a context-sensitive loading screen.  For instance, I'm in a cathedral right now, so I get a cathedral background with Garrett's face over it.

The Gloves:
Sadly, I've not gotten them yet, but I'm trying!
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2004, 10:55:56 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"

Quote
3. Arrows, do they stick into the scenery like wooden walls or even better, in opponents? I'm sad for those blue lines while I'm too shy to launch an adress for that on the Thief forums.  
 Yes, yes they do.  You can stick an arrow into a wooden support beam and then pull it back out of the beam and re-use it.  Sadly, once they are in a corpse, they are part and parcel to that corpse...you aren't getting them back.


You can tell that I'm one of an arrow-freak, but that's just me. Sadly (gah!) I'm not a native English-speaker, so I may have understood you wrong. But, do you mean that when Garrett kills someone with an arrow, the arrow in fact can be seen in a body like we can see them in wooden support beams (read: I may have misconstrued the word "parcel").
Yes, I'm perverted arrow fanatic and I played LoTR Rotk (Xbox) and enjoyed killing Orcs by arrows.
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« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2004, 11:46:45 AM »

Hav you forgotten all about us, KD? frown
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