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Author Topic: Just Finished: BIA: Hill 30  (Read 1515 times)
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ATB
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« on: January 27, 2006, 05:37:02 PM »

This game was praised from up in the rafters.

True, I'm only about 3 missions in and have control of only one guy, but what's all the hub-ub bub? Does it get better?  I mean I can only flank and kill so many times before I think this is Full Spectrum Warrior redux.

Plus, I feel so hemmed in by the designers.  I see a perfect flanking opportunity, and it's blocked by a fence that I, as an elite 101st airborne paratrooper, cannot jump over.  Does it get better?
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Bob
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2006, 05:45:19 PM »

I'm not much farther than you, but from what I heard, not really. The events stay very tightly scripted.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2006, 05:49:50 PM »

No, it does not get better. It gets continually worse.

I bought the first Brothers in Arms and was completely irritated by it after a couple of hours of forcing myself through it, hoping for it to get better.

I then succumbed to the hype regarding this one at least partially and rented it.

I took it back the same day.
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Calvin
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2006, 06:03:15 PM »

No you really aren't missing much-the game really devolves heavily into exactly what you are talking about. Grenade usage becomes extremely important, and if you are not using a crosshair the rather absurd difficulty aiming also catches up with you. Iron crosshair zooming is useful, but the weapons jump perhaps excessively, and the iron sight is also wildly inaccurate. Its an interesting game that I liked a lot more the first time I played it then I did when I went back and tried to replay it. Even so, about halfway through my first playthrough I was just kind of getting ready for it to end. I think its was fairly overrated and not particularly advanced in the way it tried to recreate tactical confrontations. In many ways it was every bit as much of a puzzle  game as Full Spectrum Warrior, but in my final analysis I might have actually enjoyed FSW more.
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2006, 06:08:01 PM »

no.
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ATB
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2006, 07:47:32 PM »

Glad I bought it then!

14 bucks...but still.
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Turtle
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2006, 09:37:51 PM »

You should have gotten Earned in Blood instead of Hill 30.  EiB still have very heavily scripted single player missions, but fortunately they include quite a few skirmish maps that can be played single or coop.  These maps a much more open than the SP campaign and you can even tweak 5 seperate AI settings to your liking (accuracy, movement, etc...)

Gearbox really got stupid in this game, trying to make it too much like Call of Duty instead of focusing on its strategy and realism.
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ATB
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 12:56:14 PM »

Well I'm a little further in and although the game is not the greatest ever, I'm enjoying it more.

What hooked me in was the extras- reading about the exploits of the actual squad on which the game is based.  Really great stuff.

Spoiler-

I've just completed the mission after Matt Baker's Tank driving friend is nixed.  The mission after it is to clear out a town- these are the kinds I like.  Enemies all around and you have to move from place to place hunting them down. Then BAM- there's a panzer that blows you to pieces!

Pretty cool.

/spoiler

The game is hovering in 'B' territory right now....
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Sarkus
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 07:50:22 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Well I'm a little further in and although the game is not the greatest ever, I'm enjoying it more.

What hooked me in was the extras- reading about the exploits of the actual squad on which the game is based.  Really great stuff.


One minor thing that bugs me is that this isn't true.  The game is based on actual events but it wasn't a single unit that experienced them all.  Basically they "cherry-picked" interesting situations from the Normandy campaign as a whole.  It makes for a more interesting game but isn't a reflection of actual events.
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ATB
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2006, 07:53:56 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "ATB"
Well I'm a little further in and although the game is not the greatest ever, I'm enjoying it more.

What hooked me in was the extras- reading about the exploits of the actual squad on which the game is based.  Really great stuff.


One minor thing that bugs me is that this isn't true.  The game is based on actual events but it wasn't a single unit that experienced them all.  Basically they "cherry-picked" interesting situations from the Normandy campaign as a whole.  It makes for a more interesting game but isn't a reflection of actual events.


Well the documentation in the extras is authentic i would guess: there's one story in particular about a sargent and private going door to door and wiping out over 30 germans.  Amazing stuff.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2006, 09:02:10 PM »

No, I agree that the extras are very cool.  The fact that you have to beat the game on the hardest difficult to open them all is not my preference, but I did enjoy all the historical content.

I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine that with all these recent WW2 FPS's there is a tendancy to use actual events but not credit the people who actually lived through them.  BIA does a better job in that regard than others.
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2006, 10:29:48 PM »

Nah.  It's a shitty puzzle game, like Full Spectrum Warrior, and nothing more.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2006, 10:36:09 PM »

I usually love any WW2-FPS you put in front of me, but I absolutely hated the first BiA.
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unbongwah
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 08:00:13 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Plus, I feel so hemmed in by the designers.  I see a perfect flanking opportunity, and it's blocked by a fence that I, as an elite 101st airborne paratrooper, cannot jump over.  Does it get better?

As someone who actually finished BiA, I can say it does get better, but this is always an issue: "narrow" levels which limit your movement / flanking options and force you down specific paths.

I liked BiA, but the restrictive level design sapped a lot of its tactical potential, making it a lot more puzzle-y, as others have said - kinda like the Commandos games, in a weird sort of way, actually.  BiA:EiB is better so far - somewhat larger, more open levels - but still problematic.
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ATB
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2006, 08:02:53 PM »

Quote from: "unbongwah"
Quote from: "ATB"
Plus, I feel so hemmed in by the designers.  I see a perfect flanking opportunity, and it's blocked by a fence that I, as an elite 101st airborne paratrooper, cannot jump over.  Does it get better?

As someone who actually finished BiA, I can say it does get better, but this is always an issue: "narrow" levels which limit your movement / flanking options and force you down specific paths.

I liked BiA, but the restrictive level design sapped a lot of its tactical potential, making it a lot more puzzle-y, as others have said - kinda like the Commandos games, in a weird sort of way, actually.  BiA:EiB is better so far - somewhat larger, more open levels - but still problematic.


Exactly- There have been half a dozen times so far where the perfect flank would have been around a house....naturally I investigate only to find no way around.  I don't know that I'll be signing up for the sequel. We'll see though.

Quote
The fact that you have to beat the game on the hardest difficult to open them all is not my preference,


Yep. Definitely don't love the game enough to replay it after I finish it.  No chancerino.
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Turtle
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2006, 03:15:13 AM »

It also suffers from fantasy rpg syndrome.  Low walls and fences somehow impede your access to otherwise perfect movement corridors.  slywink
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ATB
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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2006, 03:23:09 AM »

Quote from: "ATB"
 I see a perfect flanking opportunity, and it's blocked by a fence that I, as an elite 101st airborne paratrooper, cannot jump over.  


ATB agrees! slywink
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stiffler
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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2006, 03:44:30 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
It also suffers from fantasy rpg syndrome.  Low walls and fences somehow impede your access to otherwise perfect movement corridors.  slywink


You should join us in the PD0/KillZone whinefest!  Bring the cheese.
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Calvin
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2006, 05:47:15 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Quote from: "ATB"
 I see a perfect flanking opportunity, and it's blocked by a fence that I, as an elite 101st airborne paratrooper, cannot jump over.  


ATB agrees! slywink


I agree too.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2006, 06:49:26 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "Turtle"
It also suffers from fantasy rpg syndrome.  Low walls and fences somehow impede your access to otherwise perfect movement corridors.  slywink


You should join us in the PD0/KillZone whinefest!  Bring the cheese.


You are a rapscallion!
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unbongwah
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2006, 08:36:34 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
Exactly- There have been half a dozen times so far where the perfect flank would have been around a house....naturally I investigate only to find no way around.  I don't know that I'll be signing up for the sequel. We'll see though.

Like I say, EiB is a bit better on that score, but it's still a major issue.  I hope that with the third game - which will be X360 / PS3 / PC - they'll be able to do much more open levels, allowing for much more freeform gameplay.

Or I'll just play Freedom Fighters 2 instead.  :-)
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ATB
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2006, 01:41:55 PM »

Finished the game yesterday (as I feel obligated to finish every game I buy (unless it's REALLY REALLY REALLY bad) to legitimize the investment).

The inflexibility of the levels is ultimately the downfall of the game.

The extras bump it up half a letter in my book as reading the actual after action reports and seeing the sites 60 years later was fascinating to me.

They tried to develop the characters, but didn't do it enough.  I didn't care about the men and knowing that they'd be back for the next mission, I didn't take any care with how I had them attack.

Oh and the AI flat out stinks.  I had two tanks in a pinscer move on a panzer and instead of firing with the main guns they opened with machine guns.  Gimme a break.

And since when won't a tank round take out a machine gun nest?

Some of the levels were quite exciting to play through (like Cole's charge, clearing towns etc), but the scale is all off.

I think a great premise for a WWII game would be focused on a single town and clearing. Perhaps two dozen missions just on one town.  From teh initial assault, to house to house to the final expulsion of the enemy.

Or make the whole game the D-Day invasion.  That's it.

Oh well.

I give BIA: Hill 30 A C+.
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