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Author Topic: If Sony had immediately killed off the PS2......  (Read 1461 times)
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jblank
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« on: July 06, 2009, 03:52:45 PM »

but left the PS2 compatibility in the PS3, would we be seeing a closer race between the PS3 and 360 at this point? I was browsing the game section at Wal-mart the other day and noticed they had more PS2 games and PS2 consoles, than PS3 games and PS3 consoles. In fact, it looked as though since they remodeled this store, the PS3 section shrunk, while the Wii section was dramatically expanded.

Anyway, it made me wonder what could have been (or would have been) had Sony done their best to steer previous PS2 owners, or prospective PS2 owners, immediately away from the PS2 and towards the PS3.
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 03:53:46 PM »

It still would have been too expensive.
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 04:05:22 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on July 06, 2009, 03:53:46 PM

It still would have been too expensive.

yeah, I think it would have hurt them as they wouldn't have all those PS2 profits to fall back on and possibly have driven more people to the cheaper 360 or Wii.
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 04:47:25 PM »

I think they would have done better than they did, but I dont' think they would have turned it around completely due to the price still being too high for what it is.
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Jumangi
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 05:24:06 PM »

The PS3 was screwed the day they announced the launch price.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 05:43:46 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on July 06, 2009, 05:24:06 PM

The PS3 was screwed the day they announced the launch price.

I agree 100%.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 06:23:50 PM »

I agree the intro pricing was about as ridiculous as for SNK's Neo-Geo system in 1990 ($600).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_%28console%29

Maybe in the end what they should've done was "nerf" the PS3 system a little bit, to get its intro price down to something more competitive.

I gave up on consoles after PS2 (have still not joined the current "generation"). A few PS3 games have been bandied about as "system sellers" (Killzone 2, Little Big Planet, probably the upcoming God of War 3), but I don't get the impression any of those drive people to the system the way Halo did for X-Box or maybe Gears of War for XBox 360. The latter was almost a system seller for me in 2007, but I contracted my infamous Titan Quest Tendinitis the week I was going to get an XBox360/GoW bundle at Circuit City, and I shelved the idea.  icon_razz

My 14 year old niece and 12 year old nephew are content with their PS2, and they still have a wide variety of games and accessories to choose from.

I think another interesting What If would be if the PS2 had flopped and Sega's Dreamcast (which came out earlier than the PS2) ruled the roost. What if Sega still ruled the console world today instead of Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo? Dreamcast fans were so passionate about the machine, and it always seemed like Sega gave up on the North American market prematurely (though probably balance sheets and Sony's resources gave 'em no choice).
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 06:54:24 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 06, 2009, 06:23:50 PM

I agree the intro pricing was about as ridiculous as for SNK's Neo-Geo system in 1990 ($600).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_%28console%29

Maybe in the end what they should've done was "nerf" the PS3 system a little bit, to get its intro price down to something more competitive.

I agree.

They should have gotten rid of all the useless stuff like the card reader slots and 4 USB ports, etc... nobody would have cared if the PS3 was missing those things.  It's supposed to be a game console, not some jack-of-all-trades technological device.
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 07:00:05 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on July 06, 2009, 05:24:06 PM

The PS3 was screwed the day they announced the launch price.

and continues to be with their arrogance. if they don't drop the price this fall(which we all doubt they won't) well, let's hope MS doesn't follow nintendo.
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 07:03:34 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on July 06, 2009, 06:54:24 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on July 06, 2009, 06:23:50 PM

I agree the intro pricing was about as ridiculous as for SNK's Neo-Geo system in 1990 ($600).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_%28console%29

Maybe in the end what they should've done was "nerf" the PS3 system a little bit, to get its intro price down to something more competitive.

I agree.

They should have gotten rid of all the useless stuff like the card reader slots and 4 USB ports, etc... nobody would have cared if the PS3 was missing those things.  It's supposed to be a game console, not some jack-of-all-trades technological device.

Those features were not what make the thing so expensive though.  It was the Blu Ray drive and Cell Processor.  Outside of taking a huge loss on every unit sold, I'm not sure what they could have done other than redesign the whole system.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 07:05:31 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on July 06, 2009, 07:00:05 PM

Quote from: Jumangi on July 06, 2009, 05:24:06 PM

The PS3 was screwed the day they announced the launch price.

and continues to be with their arrogance. if they don't drop the price this fall(which we all doubt they won't) well, let's hope MS doesn't follow nintendo.

It's not arrogance.  I'm sure they would love to drop the price.  The simply can't afford to.
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 08:25:27 PM »

I would have been fine with the PS2 being by itself another 2-3 years personally.  Still my favorite console ever.

Graphics be damned.
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 08:39:15 PM »

I think Microsoft sacrificed reliability to get the 360 to market before the PS3, and customers suffered for it. They also sacrificed platform longevity, and it really affected my opinion of them.

When Microsoft cut the xbox's life short it really made me mad, and I didn't get over it until recently. I'm happy Sony didn't do that to the PS2 for the sake of marketshare, I would not have bought one.

If they don't drop the price though, they are probably toast after this year.
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 09:49:21 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on July 06, 2009, 03:53:46 PM

It still would have been too expensive.

I keep wondering if this is really true.  I bought a PS3 recently, and I feel like I got a good Blu Ray DVD player with a free game console.  But even with out that, the 360 looked like it would be just as expensive IF one picked up the HD DVD player and the wireless controller.  Even the Wii, now that I've looked at what I do with it, costs considerably more than the buy-in price.  $250, then the nunchuck for $20 (which I see as a necessary purchase to play most games.)  That brings the base console to $270, plus the price of a Blu Ray (about $250 for BD Live.)  Wii especially gets bad Hardware-wise, since each controller (WiiMote+Nunchuck+WiiMotion) will run $100.00 per.  I haven't found any Hardware purchases to make for the PS3.... maybe a bigger HD down the road?

Disclaimer: Between a sale/trade in/credit my PS3 cost about $150 out of pocket.
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 09:56:42 PM »

Yes, but all the things you mention are optional with the other consoles.  There are plenty of people that can spend the $200-300 for the XBox and be quite happy without an HD video component.  Not a lot of people care that the Wii won't play DVDs, because most people making a Wii purchase already have one available.  As for your arguments, most people don't see the overall cost up front, and once they're in, they're pot committed.

Sony tied their horses the console to the competition and eventual win of the BD format, which makes sense from a corporate standpoint, not so much from a console division standpoint. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 09:58:02 PM »

Quote
$250, then the nunchuck for $20 (which I see as a necessary purchase to play most games.)

Nunchuck comes with the base console, does it not?  Pretty sure it does.
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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2009, 09:58:55 PM »

Well, they managed to win the Hi Def DVD war I guess. So maybe Sony will consider the PS3 a success because of that. I was planning to get a PS3 one of these days (definitely after a price drop) but I already have a 360 and a Wii. And now I'm streaming hi-def movies on my $100 Roku player. Sure, not as high quality as Bluray but it'll get me by until I can score a Bluray player for $80 or so.

So I think Sony had their chance but blew it by keeping the price too high for too long. PS2 compatibility is probably not a big factor. As others have said, it's price price price.
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 10:56:44 PM »

Quote from: sgoldj on July 06, 2009, 09:49:21 PM

I keep wondering if this is really true.  I bought a PS3 recently, and I feel like I got a good Blu Ray DVD player with a free game console. 

Would you have thought that if the PS3 had the game library of the XBOx 360?  Also, Blue ray players are pretty damn cheap now, you still feel the same?  And with your disclaimer you could have gotten a free xbox 360, no?
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 10:58:43 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on July 06, 2009, 09:58:02 PM

Quote
$250, then the nunchuck for $20 (which I see as a necessary purchase to play most games.)

Nunchuck comes with the base console, does it not?  Pretty sure it does.

Yes it does.  I still bought a complete back up set, the classic controller, a gamecube controller and a charging station for mine.  A decent initial investment and I sold it all 6 months later smile
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 01:56:25 AM »

Quote from: Old Negus on July 06, 2009, 09:58:55 PM

Well, they managed to win the Hi Def DVD war I guess. So maybe Sony will consider the PS3 a success because of that.

The problem is that based on how slowly Blu-Ray sales are going its not much of a victory.
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 01:57:08 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on July 06, 2009, 09:56:42 PM

Sony tied their horses the console to the competition and eventual win of the BD format, which makes sense from a corporate standpoint, not so much from a console division standpoint.  

This right here is exactly why Sony did what they did as far as the Blu-Ray format goes. If it had failed, the PS3, along with the game division of Sony itself, would have gone under.
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2009, 01:59:51 AM »

I would argue that Sony would have been worse off by abandoning the PS2 cold turkey.  The PS3 was and continues to be overpriced.  The continuing sales of the PS2 at least allow Sony not to mitigate some of its losses in the short term.
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2009, 08:16:40 AM »

Quote from: Jumangi on July 07, 2009, 01:56:25 AM

Quote from: Old Negus on July 06, 2009, 09:58:55 PM

Well, they managed to win the Hi Def DVD war I guess. So maybe Sony will consider the PS3 a success because of that.

The problem is that based on how slowly Blu-Ray sales are going its not much of a victory.

Yep. They don't just need to lower the price of BR players and the PS3. They need to lower the price of the BR disks themselves. When most people see a movie available for $25 in hi-def, versus $10 for a normal DVD, I don't think they're seeing more than double the price worth in value in the leap to hi-def. Make that a $5 difference, and more people will make the jump. I do see BR prices finally coming down a bit. But, like I said, with the rapid improvement of streaming movies in regular and hi-def, Sony may have already missed the boat.
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2009, 12:52:41 PM »

Quote from: Old Negus on July 07, 2009, 08:16:40 AM

But, like I said, with the rapid improvement of streaming movies in regular and hi-def, Sony may have already missed the boat.

I don't think downloads really appeal to collectors. I can see it killing off the rental industry, but not appealing to the collector. I collect movies so I can watch them over a period of many years and loan them to friends. locking it to one device doesn't appeal to me at all, not only because I can't loan them, but because I know it has built in obsolescence.

I don't KNOW I will still have an xbox 360 or PS3 in 5 years, but I'm pretty sure I will have a Bluray/DVD player so my investment is safe.
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2009, 01:33:31 PM »

Quote from: morlac on July 06, 2009, 10:58:43 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on July 06, 2009, 09:58:02 PM

Quote
$250, then the nunchuck for $20 (which I see as a necessary purchase to play most games.)

Nunchuck comes with the base console, does it not?  Pretty sure it does.

Yes it does.  I still bought a complete back up set, the classic controller, a gamecube controller and a charging station for mine.  A decent initial investment and I sold it all 6 months later smile

You're right.  I mis-remembered since I bought an extra one to go with the second Wii-mote.  Subtract the $20!!!!
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2009, 02:17:33 PM »

On the download front, you have the upward pressure of HD content being counteracted by the limited bandwidth that we have at the moment, attempts to either cap or throttle bandwidth, and the limited availability in rural areas.
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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 04:20:20 PM »

Quote from: somoflange on July 07, 2009, 12:52:41 PM

Quote from: Old Negus on July 07, 2009, 08:16:40 AM

But, like I said, with the rapid improvement of streaming movies in regular and hi-def, Sony may have already missed the boat.

I don't think downloads really appeal to collectors. I can see it killing off the rental industry, but not appealing to the collector. I collect movies so I can watch them over a period of many years and loan them to friends. locking it to one device doesn't appeal to me at all, not only because I can't loan them, but because I know it has built in obsolescence.

I don't KNOW I will still have an xbox 360 or PS3 in 5 years, but I'm pretty sure I will have a Bluray/DVD player so my investment is safe.

this is also why i won't buy full games on the eventual 360 DL service.  same price as the disc and no way to recoup anything should i decide to sell it.  i would rent them ala gamefly, but for me, buying a DL is strictly on a sale or a hard to find game, like you see constantly on the PC side.  xbla games are pretty much in the bargain bin status for me, so i don't feel that they are a bad purchase. 

i have played less than one fifth of this gen's games on either the ps3 or the wii.  at least i have a decent internet surfing, blu-ray playing, media computer (that also plays the occasional ps2/3 game) by the tv though.
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2009, 05:21:20 PM »

I don't know if this affects anyone else, but for me there is a third reason why I haven't bought a PS3 yet.  The first two are the price and the lack of BC.  The third, however, is games, games, and more games...  There are so many games available these days that I feel no need to look beyond the 360, the Wii, the DS, the PS2, Dreamcast, and every other Nintendo system.  There is no way that I could play all the games that I own or even new ones that catch my attention, because I play the games I like for weeks, not days. Star Ocean 4 comes out, while Star Ocean 3 still sits on a shelf waiting for Sacred 2 to release me.  Lost Odyssey is still shrink-wrapped, and even if I only play S-2, SO3, plus LO, those will carry me for many months.  At the rate I play (lots, but slowly) FFXIII will be out before I finish all of those, lol.  Oh, and I forgot Persona 4, to boot.

As a matter of fact -  other than Little Big Planet, I can't even name another PS3 exclusive game.  I'm sure there are some, but I don't don't know (or need) them.   icon_confused
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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2009, 05:40:58 PM »

Quote from: mytocles on July 07, 2009, 05:21:20 PM

I don't know if this affects anyone else, but for me there is a third reason why I haven't bought a PS3 yet.  The first two are the price and the lack of BC.  The third, however, is games, games, and more games...  There are so many games available these days that I feel no need to look beyond the 360, the Wii, the DS, the PS2, Dreamcast, and every other Nintendo system.  There is no way that I could play all the games that I own or even new ones that catch my attention, because I play the games I like for weeks, not days. Star Ocean 4 comes out, while Star Ocean 3 still sits on a shelf waiting for Sacred 2 to release me.  Lost Odyssey is still shrink-wrapped, and even if I only play S-2, SO3, plus LO, those will carry me for many months.  At the rate I play (lots, but slowly) FFXIII will be out before I finish all of those, lol.  Oh, and I forgot Persona 4, to boot.

As a matter of fact -  other than Little Big Planet, I can't even name another PS3 exclusive game.  I'm sure there are some, but I don't don't know (or need) them.   icon_confused

Good points.

I only use my PS3 for exclusives. The only 3 games I have played this year on it have been Killzone 2, InFamous, and Valkiria Chronicles.  Of these the only one I finished was Killzone 2.

It's not like I have no games to play.  It's just that I play them all on the 360, DS, and PC.
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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2009, 06:22:16 PM »

Quote from: mytocles on July 07, 2009, 05:21:20 PM


As a matter of fact -  other than Little Big Planet, I can't even name another PS3 exclusive game.  I'm sure there are some, but I don't don't know (or need) them.   icon_confused

I would argue that you need Uncharted, but I suppose aside from food, water, oxygen, and warmth, there's nothing you TRULY need slywink
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2009, 05:34:00 PM »

I'm going to resist looking up any impressions of Uncharted, and I wonder if I ever get a PS3 will I remember that name...  I think my days of buying a system for one particular game (Zelda!) may be over, since I can't even keep up with the games I want to play now.  Maybe Sony did me a favor keeping the price up on the PS3!

Ridah, I'm pretty sure I can live without food - or so it seems after a certain age when you can't eat anything that doesn't put on weight - but definitely not gaming, that would be unthinkable!   icon_eek

That reminds me of one of the funny quotes from Sacred 2;  there are statues and tombstones that have funny - sometimes hilarious - sayings on them.  One was attributed to Steven Wright, and it was something to the effect of: "I plan on living forever... so far, so good."

 icon_razz
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