id, Activision, Lucas..all leave the ESA

[Daehawk]

Heres the latest post about it. Seems they dont like the ESA and how E3 sucks so they've all given them the finger. Whos next??

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/38858/id-Software-Leaves-ESA

id Software is the latest big name to part company with the Entertainment Software Association, joining the likes of LucasArts and Activision on the sidelines:

    The ESA as well as prominent independent developer id Software have confirmed to Gamasutra that id has revoked its membership in the Entertainment Software Association trade group. The company declined to elaborate on the move.

    The Mesquite, Texas-based creator of Doom and Quake is now the fourth major recent departure from the ESA's ranks of developers and publishers, following Activision, Vivendi, and LucasArts. So far, companies have declined to give publicly stated reasoning for their decisions to leave.

[Lee]

You should just make a post called "I like Voodoo Extreme: they post gaming news." And then you could just bump it every time they post something you find interesting.

You could probably do for that PSP fanboy site you like to post news from too.

[Daehawk]

Well Lee you dont have to read and bitch about my posts every single time if you dont like them. Just pass them by and let the people who find them interesting read them. I haven't seen one positive post from you in my threads for months. Why not stay out of them till you get whatever in your life is bothering you fixed hmm? Untill then I will continue to post about interesting topics which you hate.

As for the sites , I find Ve and PSPfanboy very helpful in the news area and finding interesting stories.

Have a good day Lee

[CeeKay]

Why not stay out of them till you get whatever in your life is bothering you fixed hmm?

what if that's you?  does that mean he'll be allowed back in after he tracks you down, eats your brain and starts wearing your skin while he posts? 

[Lee]

As you can see by your posts, most people don't read them or feel compelled to reply to them. You would think you would learn.

Most gamers read news sites, you don't have to post everything you read. Its cool if you post stuff that actually is interesting enough to comment on, but you don't, and then you have to create a new post for every little thing that interests you.

[baelthazar]

Now now Lee, be nice.  I don't read gaming news all the time and appreciate things being brought to my attention that fall through the cracks.

Actually this is pretty big news, despite the fact that the ESA has been dying a slow death.

Wonder what this all means?

Bael

[Freezer-TPF-]

How is this actually "pretty big news"?  Some folks left a trade association. 

[Sarkus]

How is this actually "pretty big news"?  Some folks left a trade association. 

It remains to be seen, but trade associations do sometimes do valuable things.  For example, the ESA has allowed the industry to present a fairly united front when gaming has been critcized by politcians and such.  If it doesn't exist you could have a more chaotic situation with individual companies only looking out for themselves.

[Doopri]

ya i thought it was pretty interesting too - the 2 largest publishers take off, as do two major ones - in a short amount of time.  in the least its an issue of curiosity (or at least it is for me, but then again i dig industry economics - any industry).  not the least bit of interest piqued as to whats going on and why?  sure esa has been floundering but why now? what changed or didnt changed? why no show of support?  (perhaps your only question is "why does doopri care?" hehehe - i am a curious creature is why!)

[Lee]

Hell, if the OP thinks it's big news he should say why it is. Give a case and something to discuss. Just posting a random news link or screen shots for a second rate game is crap. If we want this to be a better PC forum, give us something to discuss.

[ROTC1983]

I think it is interesting.  If you don't like it, just don't read the thread.  I don't see how nonconstructive criticism helps out at all. 

[morlac]

It remains to be seen, but trade associations do sometimes do valuable things.  For example, the ESA has allowed the industry to present a fairly united front when gaming has been critcized by politcians and such.  If it doesn't exist you could have a more chaotic situation with individual companies only looking out for themselves.

That's the first thing I thought of.  The ESRB rating, the defense of Rockstar in the hot coffee thing.  Seeing as it's the only trade organization in the industry of merit, as a gamer I think this is big news.

Some digging...

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/01/15/with-election-looming-esa-plans-to-spread-some-cash

Maybe these company's didn't approve of where the bri...err donations were going?   Could see Lucasarts backing out for political reasons. 

[morlac]

Hell, if the OP thinks it's big news he should say why it is. Give a case and something to discuss. Just posting a random news link or screen shots for a second rate game is crap. If we want this to be a better PC forum, give us something to discuss.

If you take out the bullshit replies such as yours there is some discussion.  So either join it or move on.

[Lee]

I think it is interesting.  If you don't like it, just don't read the thread.  I don't see how nonconstructive criticism helps out at all. 

I was constructive, I said told him to back up his post with opinion. I could post news links without commentary all day and all that does is hurt the forum. Most of us read game sites as gamers. Do we need need to make a post for everything we read?

We want this to be a better PC forum? We need good posts that encourage discussion here. The only reason this thread has replies is because I commented on it. This forum needs game discussion, not links to news stories.

[wonderpug]

Then start your own "I am the forum police, the threads I disapprove of are..." thread.  Don't shit in other people's threads if you don't like them.

[Lee]

Then start your own "I am the forum police, the threads I disapprove of are..." thread.  Don't shit in other people's threads if you don't like them.

Point taken. I was just trying to to help a Daehawk thread get some discussion.

[morlac]

I think it is interesting.  If you don't like it, just don't read the thread.  I don't see how nonconstructive criticism helps out at all. 

I was constructive, I said told him to back up his post with opinion. I could post news links without commentary all day and all that does is hurt the forum. Most of us read game sites as gamers. Do we need need to make a post for everything we read?

We want this to be a better PC forum? We need good posts that encourage discussion here. The only reason this thread has replies is because I commented on it. This forum needs game discussion, not links to news stories.

Wow that is an egotistical response.  I don't really have a ton of time for multiple gaming websites.  I like to come here to get all my news.  While Daehawk might not have anything to say about his posted subjects, he is out there in the wild tracking things down for people like me.  So I appreciate him bringing this to my attention.  I even googled ESA and stuff and found that interesting Gaming Politics website I linked to.  I would have never done that if not for this thread and Daehawk.  Oh yea and you for gracing it with your presence and making it worthy for the rest of us to go ahead and post in.  Awesome work you two, keep it up 

[CSL]

The countdown to lock has most certainly started.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Any and all posts are welcome as long as they fit within the bounds of the CoC. 

[CeeKay]

I bet the abandonware sites are busy dusting off certain titles now.

[EngineNo9]

I find these major companies backing out of the ESA interesting and disturbing.  Obviously E3 has been in a huge downturn, and with Doug Lowenstein gone they aren't doing much to on the political or media fronts either.  I think there will need to be some drastic turn-arounds if they expect the ESA to stay as a central force for the industry, and I just hope it's not too late. 

What I am curious about is what these other companies plan to do insted of participate in the ESA.  Hopefully the answer isn't "nothing". 

[Daehawk]

Ive been curious as to why E3 downscaled itself so much just overnight. One year they are big and the next a small hanger of junk. We always had CES and Comdex and then E3 and something else Im forgetting right now. My dream was always to go to one of these big events and see the sights. Now the sights seem to be over. PC gaming is still huge..I dont get it.

[TC Weidner]

Post   
Lee

its interesting to see what is happening to these shows and organizations

[warning]

Hell, if the OP thinks it's big news he should say why it is. Give a case and something to discuss. Just posting a random news link or screen shots for a second rate game is crap. If we want this to be a better PC forum, give us something to discuss.

[Sarkus]

Ive been curious as to why E3 downscaled itself so much just overnight. One year they are big and the next a small hanger of junk. We always had CES and Comdex and then E3 and something else Im forgetting right now. My dream was always to go to one of these big events and see the sights. Now the sights seem to be over. PC gaming is still huge..I dont get it.

The last few years of the old E3 got pretty chaotic and somewhat out of control.  In theory it was supposed to be a trade show for members of the industry to show off their wares to media and retail buyers.  But over time the demand to make a bigger and bigger splash at E3 because of the fan attention became more important.  They also did a lousy job of filtering out the fans, so you ended up with tens of thousands of visitors*, most of whom weren't retail buyers or media.  Smaller players felt overwhelmed by the amount of sound and fury the big players generated. Several big players (Sony, etc.) got sick of the expense.   Eventually enough companies threatened to just skip the whole thing if it wasn't changed that the ESA decided to scale it down.  However, whatever the ESA and its members thought that would result in, they haven't transitioned to very well.

*There were outright fraudulent ways to get into E3 and security was lax.  On top of that, the legitimate ways to attend were also rather broad.  I managed a GameStop for a few years and store managers were all allowed to attend if we wanted to (the company gave us a pass, the rest was up to us) and I also know that Digipen (a game industry oriented tech school in the Seattle area) provided free passes to all of it's students as well.  Also, anyone could pretty much claim to be "media" and get a pass.

[baelthazar]

I do believe that the E3 downsize had a lot to do, as was said above, with making it more exclusive in order to weed out the "bad elements." There was a lot of pressure from the big names to close doors, partially because of the huge expense put out to both run and attend the convention. Also, these big names wanted the focus mostly on their flagship products, and they did not want to "waste" time displaying their upcoming wares to "non-professional" mostly blogger journalists. There was some politics involved in all this, and it seemed to me that there was something about losing money, massive expense, etc... but I could not find the article about this.

Bael

[Daehawk]

I always thought these shows should be open to the customers..the gamers. I never understood why it was the way it was. Then I recall a show doing just that and it being a big problem. Its a strange industry.

[Sarkus]

I always thought these shows should be open to the customers..the gamers. I never understood why it was the way it was. Then I recall a show doing just that and it being a big problem. Its a strange industry.

It can work that way, but when you let the masses in its hard to really connect with people in the media, buyers, and other industry folks.  I've been to shows of both types and there are pluses and minuses to each.  The old E3 focused a lot of attention on one place but if a game didn't go over very well in that chaotic uncontrolled environment, it was in a lot of trouble.  From a developer/publisher point of view, controlled PR makes more sense.  Also, its hard to justify the expense of being part of a show like that if you are ignored by the press and buyers.  Not everyone can afford booth babes.

[EngineNo9]

Yeah, there was obscene amounts of money spent for the spectacle of E3, not to mention weeks of productivity lost preparing special demos that could be shown on the floor, all for a very questionable return on investment.  Joe Average may enjoy getting to see some games months before they come out, but for the most part it doesn't benefit the companies all that much and they would probably be better off with an atmosphere more conducive to business/media. 

[morlac]

I remember me and a buddy making fake badges on his computer when the show was in Atlanta many moons ago.  Good times.

[Biyobi]

I made it into 5 different E3 shows and have never had anything to do with the industry.  It was always friends, or friends of friends, that got me in.  They were a lot of fun to attend as a fan but I always wondered what the vendors got out of it since regular PR and marketing wouldn't have been nearly as expensive.

Good times.  I even got to meet the infamous LaPorte there.

[Daehawk]

My favorite stories and games always seemed to come from this one hall off the main floor.. I think it was called kentia hall or something close to that spelling. All the big boys were showing off stuff that were sequels of sequels or boring old same old but this hall had the little guys in it . There was always some neat hardware or a new game type / story. They took risks just like everyone once did and made great stuff there. I miss when the industry was younger and fresh instead of the corporate same old it had become.

[Laner]

Hell, if the OP thinks it's big news he should say why it is. Give a case and something to discuss. Just posting a random news link or screen shots for a second rate game is crap. If we want this to be a better PC forum, give us something to discuss.

While I disagree with Lee's abrasive response to Daehawk, I do echo this sentiment... less link and run, more content/commentary.  And I say that as someone who has been guilty of the former more than once.

[Sarkus]

Hell, if the OP thinks it's big news he should say why it is. Give a case and something to discuss. Just posting a random news link or screen shots for a second rate game is crap. If we want this to be a better PC forum, give us something to discuss.

While I disagree with Lee's abrasive response to Daehawk, I do echo this sentiment... less link and run, more content/commentary.  And I say that as someone who has been guilty of the former more than once.

If this is a big issue for people they should take that discussion to "Forum and Site Feedback" or create their own thread, not argue it within an existing thread devoted to a seperate issue.

[naednek]

yeah, and we already moved on already, and it's been pretty much "community moderated"

[EngineNo9]

My favorite stories and games always seemed to come from this one hall off the main floor.. I think it was called kentia hall or something close to that spelling. All the big boys were showing off stuff that were sequels of sequels or boring old same old but this hall had the little guys in it . There was always some neat hardware or a new game type / story. They took risks just like everyone once did and made great stuff there. I miss when the industry was younger and fresh instead of the corporate same old it had become.

Yeah, Kentia was often full of goofy, or underfunded, or just non-mainstream stuff.  It wasn't always good stuff, but it was different. 

[Lorini]

The big concern for us gamers is that we need the game publishers to have a voice in Washington before all we have to play is Mario Hello Kitty. I thought the ESA did this? If so, publishers leaving better find another lobbying organization. If they think they can get more done individually as separate companies, I think they are dreaming. E3 is not the issue here, it's the political influence of the industry.

[Skylark]

[...] before all we have to play is Mario Hello Kitty.

With that avatar, now that's irony 

[Purge]

My favorite stories and games always seemed to come from this one hall off the main floor.. I think it was called kentia hall or something close to that spelling. All the big boys were showing off stuff that were sequels of sequels or boring old same old but this hall had the little guys in it . There was always some neat hardware or a new game type / story. They took risks just like everyone once did and made great stuff there. I miss when the industry was younger and fresh instead of the corporate same old it had become.

Yeah, Kentia was often full of goofy, or underfunded, or just non-mainstream stuff.  It wasn't always good stuff, but it was different. 

KD, do you remember the co-axial converter from e3 2003? that was actually worth seeing in Kentia hall.

[D.A.Lewis]

I for one will be sorry for the death of the big gaming media events. A lot of my friends in the biz went to E3 in LA and I always thought  I had something more important to do.

Alas, they know what a booth babe is, and I am all the poorer in my foolish foolish ignorance.