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Author Topic: I may not get a PS3 - if this is true  (Read 3423 times)
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farley2k
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« on: November 09, 2005, 02:13:55 PM »

So Joystiq is reporting that the PS3 may not play used/rented games.

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”A device and method for protection of legitimate software against used software and counterfeit software in recording media… A specific title code is read, and if this title code has been registered, the main unit shifts to a normal operation. If the code has not been registered, verification software is initiated… If matching does not occur, the disk is processed as illegitimate software… Since only titles for which legitimate software has actually been purchased and which have been initially registered in the machine table can be used, resale (so-called used software purchase) after purchase by an end-user becomes practically impossible.”


If that turns out to be true I won't get a PS3.  I rent 90% of the games I play and buy used about 9%.  Only the exceptional game (like Dragon Warrior VIII) will I buy new.  

So I just won't buy something that invasive.  Up until now the gaming section of Sony has been separate from the asshats in the music area but it appears they want to start spreading to the whole company.
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Captain Caveman
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2005, 02:36:45 PM »

Holy crap. I like to rent games and buy used (especially with titles looking like they will be retailing for $60 on the next gen platforms), so this could be a killer for me. I can see why Sony would implement these restrictions from a financial standpoint, but I really hope this doesn't come to pass.
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Nth Power
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2005, 02:43:36 PM »

Sounds like a crappy move on Sony's part, if the rumor's true.  I guess that would cause it to be very inconvenient to take your copy to your friend's house too.  It wouldn't affect me too much since I don't really rent, but I still think it's a dumb thing to do.
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Scott
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 02:44:36 PM »

This would kill Sony, no way they'd do it.  EB, Gamestop, Bestbuy (soon) and the other major retailers that make money off used games would be less then happy as well.
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farley2k
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 02:51:58 PM »

I don't know what the numbers are for rented games.  I imagine from Sony's perspective they are terrible.  It is just a lost sale.  


How many consoles do you think get bought just for rentals?  Or how many people do you think wouldn't buy a console if they couldn't rent games?
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Arkon
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 03:04:02 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
This would kill Sony, no way they'd do it.  EB, Gamestop, Bestbuy (soon) and the other major retailers that make money off used games would be less then happy as well.


Didn't stop Sony from putting horrendous DRM on thier music CD's.
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bluntman72
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2005, 03:11:29 PM »

the worst thing for me is to do this you would have to be connected to either the internet or phone line for them to be able to run a check. I plan to go online if sony does it right this time but what about people who dont want to go online, does this mean they cant play games because it will not be able to check. also if this means that after I have invested thousands of dollars in games that i cant sell them later on Ebay. this would kill the PS3 for me and I would not buy it.
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ChaoZ
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2005, 03:22:15 PM »

This would be suicide for Sony, and I think the pirates would have no problems getting around this kind of protection. They should just expect piracy to factor into the equation and promote more games to have online elements that are tied to a single user.

For example, have several levels that are online only (lets players interact with others for example) that is directly tied into the storyline. You can still play without online, but you would be missing a chunk of the story. It would foil (to a degree) the mass piraters (because the serial code would refuse two people playing the online element at the same time) , but still allow used copies, friends lending games etc.

It wouldn't be an actual serial code you'd have to enter of course, but an imprinted code unique to each disc, not at all tied to the PS3 hardware.
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2005, 03:31:22 PM »

Quote from: "bluntman72"
what about people who dont want to go online, does this mean they cant play games because it will not be able to check.


That would be me.  I have absolutely zero plans to go online with any of my consoles.  If they suddenly required me to be online just to play, then I wouldn't be buying a PS3 (or any console that requires it).  

I also buy most, if not all, of my games used.  This would be a horrible move on Sony's part if it's true.
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2005, 03:34:00 PM »

I seriously doubt they'll do this. I mean, what if your console breaks down, and you get a new one? You'd be shit out of luck, trying to play any of your titles, right? I just don't see this happening in any way or form for the PS3.
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Sepiche
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2005, 03:41:14 PM »

This doesn't pass the smell test.

s
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2005, 03:45:19 PM »

No way in hell Sony is going to require all its users to be online. That's an insane way to limit your userbase.

What if there's a small write-once area on the DVD, and your machine writes it's "mark" on it when its first placed in the drive. And after that, other machines will refuse to play the disc, now marked for another machine.  It'd be expensive to implement the writer, and slightly increase the cost of media but if you're serious about destroying the used market, that'd do it.  

But yeah.. what if your console breaks?
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Scott
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2005, 04:15:30 PM »

Quote
Didn't stop Sony from putting horrendous DRM on thier music CD's.

How is this even remotely the same?  That DRM software doesn't stop me from playing my music CD in any cd player I want.   It only prevents me copying the music to x number of other computers or mp3 players.  I've never been able to copy PS2 games to my computer, or other types of entertainment devices.

What farley mentioned is that you can only play the PS3 games on your single PS3, and no others, nor sell them.  Its completely different.  Sony Music is trying to stop the easy sharing/stealing of mp3 files, not preventing you from listening to the CD you purchased in multiple players.

I imagine if you couldn't rent, ebay, or play your games on your friends PS3, it would hurt sales lots faster then CDs that can't have their music shared for free.
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2005, 04:53:24 PM »

Not being able to rent games is a huge turnoff for me. One of the reasons consoles are great is that you have the ability to rent the games.

I wouldn't pay $60 to play a game that has a whopping 10 hours of content, that's just insane.

If they go that route they will have to encourage developers to only make games that you wouldn't mind shelling out the $$ for.

Also, from what I understand the disk is read, not written to. It reads a hash or string and registers it to a key or hash on the unit itself. It would require an online connection of some sort to do this. They may have it set so that the game won't run until after it passes the "match" check.

For illustration purposes:

PS3 Unit has a hash that = 104567
Game A has a hash of 9099009877w3

Everytime you go to play it does a check at a database to see if the unit with 104567 is trying to play a game with 9099009877w3.

One flaw in this system is that they would have to have a hell of a redundacy plan for the database access because if Sony has issues then you won't be able to play games.
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farley2k
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2005, 05:08:27 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
Didn't stop Sony from putting horrendous DRM on thier music CD's.

How is this even remotely the same?  That DRM software doesn't stop me from playing my music CD in any cd player I want.   It only prevents me copying the music to x number of other computers or mp3 players.  I've never been able to copy PS2 games to my computer, or other types of entertainment devices.

What farley mentioned is that you can only play the PS3 games on your single PS3, and no others, nor sell them.  Its completely different.  Sony Music is trying to stop the easy sharing/stealing of mp3 files, not preventing you from listening to the CD you purchased in multiple players.

I imagine if you couldn't rent, ebay, or play your games on your friends PS3, it would hurt sales lots faster then CDs that can't have their music shared for free.



It isn't a great analogy I agree but it does has some similarities.


I think what it really shows - the music side - is that Sony isn't really concerned about consumers.  Look at the whole "rootkit" situation.  

I think we have a company that feels it is so important that people will buy their products no matter what they do....and they are somewhat right. Look at the thread on OO about boycotting Sony.  People are willing to put up with a lot of shit!
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Harry F. Ishnuts
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2005, 05:28:18 PM »

The Sony fanbois are getting more and more defensive.

Of course, they will have lots of time to do so since their alledged PS3 won't be available until 2007 or so.

By then they may not be able to rent or buy used games for their vaporware console.

Until then they can all infect their computers with Sony music CDs in a show of support for their Sony masters!

    --HFI-
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Fellow
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2005, 05:44:38 PM »

Hoo boy.
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2005, 05:55:44 PM »

Quote from: "Harry F. Ishnuts"
The Sony fanbois are getting more and more defensive.

Of course, they will have lots of time to do so since their alledged PS3 won't be available until 2007 or so.

By then they may not be able to rent or buy used games for their vaporware console.

Until then they can all infect their computers with Sony music CDs in a show of support for their Sony masters!

    --HFI-


Who are you?
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2005, 05:59:00 PM »

Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "Harry F. Ishnuts"
The Sony fanbois are getting more and more defensive.

Of course, they will have lots of time to do so since their alledged PS3 won't be available until 2007 or so.

By then they may not be able to rent or buy used games for their vaporware console.

Until then they can all infect their computers with Sony music CDs in a show of support for their Sony masters!

    --HFI-


Who are you?


Someone from the teamxbox forums if I was forced to guess.

And I am an Xbox fan so I can say that.   :p
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pr0ner
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2005, 06:08:53 PM »

Quote from: "msduncan"
Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "Harry F. Ishnuts"
The Sony fanbois are getting more and more defensive.

Of course, they will have lots of time to do so since their alledged PS3 won't be available until 2007 or so.

By then they may not be able to rent or buy used games for their vaporware console.

Until then they can all infect their computers with Sony music CDs in a show of support for their Sony masters!

    --HFI-


Who are you?


Someone from the teamxbox forums if I was forced to guess.

And I am an Xbox fan so I can say that.   :p


Hah!   :twisted:
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2005, 06:17:42 PM »

Sounds like either bullshit or misinterpretation of much tamer facts.
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EddieA
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2005, 08:34:07 PM »

Another day, another obviously false PS3 rumor.  The way things are going, PS3 will come out in 2027, cost $4000, and not actually play any games.
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2005, 08:40:47 PM »

A bullet from my 15 page research paper on the subject:

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SPEs for coherent offload. SPEs have local memory, asynchronous coherent DMA, and a large unified register file to improve memory bandwidth and to provide a new level of combined power efficiency and performance. The SPEs are dynamically configurable to provide support for content protection and privacy.


That is straight from STI (Sony, Toshiba, IBM).  Will they use it to stop rentals and used games?  Hell no...this is somebody who can read, but can't think.
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2005, 09:05:12 PM »

I think this is bullshit. Sony is pretty business savvy, and this would be a disaster if only in the PR department and "Blockbuster will say nasty things to us" camp.
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2005, 09:16:59 PM »

Provided Blockbuster doesn't declare bankruptcy before then. slywink

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051026/bs_nm/retail_blockbuster_dc
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2005, 09:23:44 PM »

I've been getting really, REALLY pissed off at Sony's activites lately.  Especially the "spyware on the music" thing.
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farley2k
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2005, 09:38:30 PM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
Another day, another obviously false PS3 rumor.  The way things are going, PS3 will come out in 2027, cost $4000, and not actually play any games.



I read they are partnering with the Phantom to provide cutting edge content.

smile
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« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2005, 09:46:47 PM »

This rumor is not true.  Think about it for a second, and you'll realize it as well.
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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2005, 09:57:29 PM »

Honestly guys, how many big rumors did you hear about the Xbox 1, PS2, and Gamecube that ended in no way true?

Yep, thought so.
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2005, 12:44:03 AM »

Game companies have taken Japanese resellers to court over the issue of selling used games.  The point being that game publishers make nothing once the initial sale is made.  Obviously the resale can undercut and reduce game sales.  These days it just seems like a part of life as we know it.  Would EB/GameStop still be in business without the profit generated from used game sales?  Maybe, but not nearly as profitable.

You can check out a synopsis of the Japanese cases here (pdf file).

Interesting, but no way that's going to happen.  Sony would be buried.  Now if they thought for a second they could do this and still move PS2-type numbers then I'd be concerned.
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« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2005, 04:23:48 AM »

Wee!  It's fun to play telephone!

Let's start with a rumor that Sony has patented this technology.

Then let's have joystiq.com make a sensational "PS3 won't play used games" headline, even though the article itself thinks that it's "not likely" to happen.

Now we can ignore the body of the article and treat the headline as news.

Next step?
Sony is going to put little tracking devices in their games purple monkey hopscotch
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« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2005, 04:37:25 AM »

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Harry F. Ishnuts
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2005, 12:42:36 AM »

Next thing you know you guys will be trying to tell us that Sony is shipping music CDs with spyware on them?

Oh.... They are!

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_raids_hack.html

    -HFI
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2005, 12:59:31 AM »

Oh yeah, since they put that on their music CDs that obviously means this rumor is true.  I also heard that the PS3 has this new data port that you stick your tongue in and it allows you to control the game through breathing patterns.  They already have this cool tech demo called Fog Up the Windows.  I personally cant wait!  Just think of the crazy Japanese porno games that will allow you to use your tongue!  AWESOME!
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« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2005, 03:44:34 AM »

Quote from: "GatorFavre"
Just think of the crazy Japanese porno games that will allow you to use your tongue!  AWESOME!


Whaddya mean I have to wait for the sequel before it returns the favor!?
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2005, 07:19:01 AM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "EddieA"
PS3 will come out in 2027, cost $4000, and not actually play any games.


I read they are partnering with the Phantom to provide cutting edge content.

smile


My god, that's terrible.   :lol:
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2005, 02:35:35 PM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "GatorFavre"
Just think of the crazy Japanese porno games that will allow you to use your tongue!  AWESOME!


Whaddya mean I have to wait for the sequel before it returns the favor!?


And when both technologies are compatible, we'll get our first "fighting" game.  An "Oral Combat" if you will.  Do you go for the "Flawless Victory," or do you let the computer beat up on you just so she'll "Finish him!"
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