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Author Topic: I don't like bosses.  (Read 1456 times)
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TheMissingLink
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« on: March 10, 2006, 07:41:13 AM »

I hate fighting bosses, pretty much no matter the game.  Some bosses, I'm okay with, I'm cool with.  Metal Gear Solid's bosses, for instance, are well-balanced and thought it, it seems.  While the way they attack you is usually different than anything you've experienced before, you can always adapt and it never seems like the card's are stacked in their favor.

But, usually, when it comes to bosses, I just get nervous that I won't "get it" - I won't get how to beat them, so I'll have to play it over again, and I don't like that!  That's one reason I was shocked that I loved Shadow of the Colossus - but that game was brilliantly designed...

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA is not.

I finished the normal game, and when you finish the normal campaign, you play through Reverse / Rebirth mode, which is essentially the same story but from another character's point of view.  I wasn't sure I wanted to go through with the game because of how hard the ending of the normal game was, to be frank, but promises of "this is VITAL to understand what happens between KH1 and KH2!" made me finally start it up a tad unwillingly.  

In the middle of my normal game, I was about to make a post about how brilliantly the KH card-battle system was executed.  And for normal battles, definitely, it's a card-battle system done right!  But this whole reverse / rebirth mode is an entirely different beast...

The normal campaign allowed you to edit your deck, choosing your own playstyle.  Will you go for lots of counter-cards?  Will you go super, uber powerful?  I ended up countering bosses at the end of the normal campaign, which was an exercise is patience, since it took off a sliver of their multiple healthbars.

BUT, THIS REVERSE / REBIRTH mode throws that system entirely out the window.  At the beginning of each world, you're given the cards you MUST use.  Which was okay...until I got to this boss.  The second-to-last boss.

It's a battle against a clone.  Well, sort of.  He has 3x the lifebar I do, better cards, stronger and he's quicker.  Oh, and I'm not allowed to heal myself just for this battle (why, I don't know).

Uhhhhhh, why is this necessary?  Why do I need the odds so fucking heavily stacked in his favor?  Give me the ILLUSION that the odds are stacked in his favor - throw up a veil of ignorance, I DON'T CARE, just don't fuck me over by not allowing me to edit my deck against this boss!!

* SUMMARY OF SUPER LONG POST *

This boss thing is annoying.  I need to beat this game, but talk about an exercise in frustration.  A FAQ tells me, "you may die a lot on this boss."  Well, I don't feel like it.  Soooo I'm done.

Anyone else have trouble with bosses?  Not like bosses?  Ever come across anything as annoying as my situation?
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Nth Power
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2006, 07:50:21 AM »

I still can't beat the last boss in Final Fantasy X.  I think I need to level up a bit more, but it's been so long since I've played it.  When and if I go back, I'll probably just start over from the beginning.

Overall, I don't really mind boss fights if I can restart relatively close if I die.  I tend to get overly frustrated if it takes me longer than a few minutes to get back to the boss.
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2006, 07:51:34 AM »

The boss at the end of DDS 1 was a toughie.  But I think it was just because I was a tad bit underleveled.

The Hell Biker for Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne for some reason was tougher than HELL for me.  Again, probably due to being a lower level than I should have.  And that's towards the beginning of the game!  All I remember is my Candelabrum notifying me of a strong presence, me thinking how this demon was going to be easy due to the previous one - Daisoujou - being relatively easy.  But holy jebus the Hell Biker pissed me off!
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Interloper
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2006, 08:37:01 AM »

I like bosses, a lot.  It's one thing I like about console games.  It seems pc games have a boss shortage. I liked working out strategies against real tough bosses the most.  Makes me feel like a accomplished something and breaks the game up into sections for me.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2006, 09:19:35 AM »

I think some of the Metal Gear boss fights really are great examples of how to really pull off a well done bossfight. Even if some of the character designs themselves are totally insane and/or silly/stupid, the actual play itself is always fun.

Psycho Mantis in Metal Gear Solid was particularly cool, as was Sniper Wolf. I'd give a nod to The End from MGS3: Snake Eater as well.

I don't have a problem with boss fights as long as the trick to beating them is something that makes sense.

Spoiler for Hiden:
When I fought Boss in MGS3 she must've killed me five or six times simply because I wasn't really thinking about what I was doing, or the place I was in. I kept trying to just beat her up, and I got extremely close the last few times I tried it. But she would always finish me off first. Finally I started staying away from her and hitting her with the sniper rifle from across the little area we were fighting in. Totally destroyed her.
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 02:56:58 PM »

The bosses in RE:4 were well-planned out.

The bosses in Ninja Gaiden were (for the most part) challenging.

I still hate mother brain though. Fucking Bitch.
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2006, 03:10:53 PM »

I don't mind bosses as long as, when they defeat you, it's easy to get back and fight them again.  Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast was like this - if a boss defeated you you were given the option of starting the battle over again at the beginning.  What I really hate is having to go through a level to get to the boss or (even worse) having to watch an unskippable cutscene or listen to a monologue before I can fight the boss again.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 03:35:06 PM »

In genral, I agree.  When bosses are well designed and inventive (MGS games, RE4, Final Fantasy series, God of War) then I don't mind them and, indeed, look forward to them.  But in the vast majority of games they just come off as cheap and are completely disproportionate in difficulty compared to the rest of the game.

The worst are final bosses in RPGs that are orders of magnitude harder than anything you've encountered previously.  I hate it when I have little to no trouble dispaching every single other enemy and boss in the game only to find out that I'm way underleveled for the final boss.
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Arkon
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2006, 03:40:29 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
In genral, I agree.  When bosses are well designed and inventive (MGS games, RE4, Final Fantasy series, God of War) then I don't mind them and, indeed, look forward to them.  But in the vast majority of games they just come off as cheap and are completely disproportionate in difficulty compared to the rest of the game.

The worst are final bosses in RPGs that are orders of magnitude harder than anything you've encountered previously.  I hate it when I have little to no trouble dispaching every single other enemy and boss in the game only to find out that I'm way underleveled for the final boss.


In general I don't think Final Fantasy should be in your list of well designed and inventive bosses.  More like cheap half assed bosses.
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FlyingElvis
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 03:44:14 PM »

Quote from: "Nth Power"
I still can't beat the last boss in Final Fantasy X.  I think I need to level up a bit more, but it's been so long since I've played it.  When and if I go back, I'll probably just start over from the beginning.


I gave up on FF X on the final boss for this reason. I played the game at what I thought was a reasonable pace only to find I'm several levels short of what I need to be to beat him. Ok, so I need to run around in a circle to spawn a million random encounters... SOMEONE SHOW ME THE FUN IN THIS?!?
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2006, 04:31:37 PM »

Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
Quote from: "Nth Power"
I still can't beat the last boss in Final Fantasy X.  I think I need to level up a bit more, but it's been so long since I've played it.  When and if I go back, I'll probably just start over from the beginning.


I gave up on FF X on the final boss for this reason. I played the game at what I thought was a reasonable pace only to find I'm several levels short of what I need to be to beat him. Ok, so I need to run around in a circle to spawn a million random encounters... SOMEONE SHOW ME THE FUN IN THIS?!?


go figure - i had a much harder time with yunalesca than i had with the final boss. all i remember is, i had yuna do her 3 most powerful summons, & that was pretty much it (didn't do a lot of leveling, either)...


&, for what it's worth, my idea of consistently nicely designed, nasty-but-never-impossible final bosses would be the zelda series...
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2006, 04:46:43 PM »

FFX didn't give me a whole lot of trouble near the end, but my party was leveled to Hell and back (very quick and easy to do, actually).  Yunalesca did give me a run for my money, but only because of that damn "turn you into zombies and cast life on you" trick.  Can't comment on Chain of Memories.  I can't get past frickin Capt. Hook, crazy arsonist bastard.

I will throw my hat into the bosses from hell list by adding the dude in the flying castle from Phantasy Star IV.  Don't remember his name, but I hate him. HATE.
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2006, 04:53:34 PM »

My boss lets me surf forums at work and makes posts like this so I don't hate him.

Bosses can make a game great like in Zelda or Castlevania.  I am not as hardcore as I used to be when I played those games so for current generation games I prefer a close save-point for bosses.
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2006, 04:58:25 PM »

Haha, I just posted about this a couple days ago. I had about given up on the final boss from Superstar Saga. I decided to give it one more go and miraculously I beat him.

The boss was WAY too different than anything previous to that point. It probably took over 30 minutes to beat him. No other baddie took nearly that long. It was so frustrating. Not fun at all. They really bungled up the end of that game.

Why game designers do this is puzzling.

(btw, nice profile pic, Nth Power)
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2006, 05:56:47 PM »

Quote from: "semiconscious"
Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
Quote from: "Nth Power"
I still can't beat the last boss in Final Fantasy X.  I think I need to level up a bit more, but it's been so long since I've played it.  When and if I go back, I'll probably just start over from the beginning.


I gave up on FF X on the final boss for this reason. I played the game at what I thought was a reasonable pace only to find I'm several levels short of what I need to be to beat him. Ok, so I need to run around in a circle to spawn a million random encounters... SOMEONE SHOW ME THE FUN IN THIS?!?


go figure - i had a much harder time with yunalesca than i had with the final boss. all i remember is, i had yuna do her 3 most powerful summons, & that was pretty much it (didn't do a lot of leveling, either)...


&, for what it's worth, my idea of consistently nicely designed, nasty-but-never-impossible final bosses would be the zelda series...

Yeah, by the time I got to the final boss in FFX I had no trouble with him. If you aren't high enough level go and do some sidequests, get the optional weapons or the optional summons. That game has SOO much more than just running aroudn waiting for random spawns.
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2006, 07:07:15 PM »

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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2006, 07:30:44 PM »

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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2006, 07:57:44 PM »

Quote from: "Arkon"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
In general I don't think Final Fantasy should be in your list of well designed and inventive bosses.  More like cheap half assed bosses.


FFX has some of my favorite boss fights of the generation.  The same can be said of the PS1 games.  Unfortunately, there are some cheap bosses in there too, but overall I'm on the side that they are generally very creative without being too frustrating.
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2006, 08:04:44 PM »

The boss at the end of the first chapter of RE4 made me go from "hey, this is a really great game" to "holy sh!t".  I think well designed boss encounters can leave a huge mark on your overall impression of a game.  

I really enjoy games that present boss encounters as almost a different type of gameplay experience from the rest of the game - bosses that function more as 'puzzles' are far more interesting to me than enemies that are simply bigger and stronger than the normal enemies.  The Zelda series is a good example - each boss fight seems completely different from one another (even if they all share the same 'find and hit the weak point' concept).  Shadows of the Colossus made a whole game based around these types of boss encounters.
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2006, 03:25:20 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Quote from: "semiconscious"
Quote from: "FlyingElvis"
Quote from: "Nth Power"

Yeah, by the time I got to the final boss in FFX I had no trouble with him. If you aren't high enough level go and do some sidequests, get the optional weapons or the optional summons. That game has SOO much more than just running aroudn waiting for random spawns.


Go to the Omega dungeon. The enemies there are stupidly powerful but there's a save spot you can camp. After beating Omega Weapon, Yuna was so powerful I was able to take out the final boss before he even got a turn. I only boss I ever lost to more than once was Seymour on Mt. Gagazet.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2006, 04:56:37 PM »

^ that's the boss that I got stuck at when I played through FFX!
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2006, 02:11:49 PM »

some bosses for me are easier than the rest of the game,take kameo.....all that messing about changing from one character to the next in mid-air and readjusting the camera while trying to fire yourself over into the oppersite direction that when you come to the actual boss...i fly through it

as said metal gear solid bosses are some of the greatest i have sen in video games...same with zelda

metroid prime for the nintendo....just had me crying and pulling my hair out..it was this game that made me hate end of level/dungeon bosses
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2006, 05:14:08 PM »

The final boss in Kameo was, well, a joke compared to some of the other bosses in the game.

Boss battles are generally very easy to me. It is the levels in between that can challenge me.
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2006, 08:48:32 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Arkon"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
In general I don't think Final Fantasy should be in your list of well designed and inventive bosses.  More like cheap half assed bosses.


FFX has some of my favorite boss fights of the generation.  The same can be said of the PS1 games.  Unfortunately, there are some cheap bosses in there too, but overall I'm on the side that they are generally very creative without being too frustrating.


I honestly don't recall where I was in FFX when I gave up. I think it was half-way through and I just never went back. On the other hand, let me throw God of War into the mix as a game that front-loaded its best sequence, boss battle included. The Hydra is utterly amazing as a boss fight so much so that nothing else really compares Ares included.
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