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Author Topic: I've given in: Time to for an XBox  (Read 2653 times)
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Kev199
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« on: December 17, 2004, 03:17:51 AM »

Well, after trying to hold off from buying a console system, my good ol' N64 has decided to end its life.  So, that leaves me console-less and I've decided to buy an XBox.  Since I have the rewards card for Best Buy, I'll probably buy the Holiday Bundle if my local BB has one in stock.  I'll probably rent KOTOR II and Halo 2 to see if I like them and go from there.  Any suggestions for good sports and RPG's for the Xbox are welcome.  Thanks. slywink
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2004, 03:51:27 AM »

Quote from: "Kev199"
Well, after trying to hold off from buying a console system, my good ol' N64 has decided to end its life.  So, that leaves me console-less and I've decided to buy an XBox.  Since I have the rewards card for Best Buy, I'll probably buy the Holiday Bundle if my local BB has one in stock.  I'll probably rent KOTOR II and Halo 2 to see if I like them and go from there.  Any suggestions for good sports and RPG's for the Xbox are welcome.  Thanks. slywink


Good RPGs?  Easier just to list all of the RPGs:

Morrowind
KOTOR
Fable
Sudeki
KOTOR II

Of these the best are probably KOTOR and KOTOR 2.  If you haven't already played it, make sure to play KOTOR before Part 2.  Fable is supposed to be pretty good if your expectations aren't too high.  Sudeki got pretty terrible reviews but a few people around here seemed to think it was worth a spin.
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ingrin
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2004, 05:12:09 AM »

Don't forget...

Exclusive Morrowindesque
Arx Fatalis - they loved it here.

Exclusive action RPGs
D&D Heroes - reviews all over the place, mostly mediocre

Multi-plats
Action
Balder's Gate 1&2 = good
Fallout = stay away
X-men Legends = good
Bard's tale = no opinion, supposedly has some decent humor
Demon Stone = supposed to be good
TTT - meh
ROTK - Meh, but better

JRPG
That LOTR inspired JRPG that borrows heavily from the FF and which FF fans thinks is inferior but others like ok.

Apparenlty there is a game called Enclave by Starbreeze that might be an RPG.  Not too sure about it, seems like it was rather difficult or had poorly placed save points from the reviews I read.
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Doopri
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2004, 05:50:46 AM »

RPGs - Morrowind is great you get to roam and there are tons of quests - very much THE free form RPG

Baldur's Gates games are GREAT if youre an action RPG - console Diablo kinda deal

KOTOR - I love it, more linear than Morrowind but the character development and story are fun, decent weapon / skill set variety

Fable is super fun just dont read previews of what it was supposed to be

If youre into turn based the new Lord of the Rings Third Age game is very fun - reminds me of linear Final Fantasy Legends games from old game boy days

Demon Stone is great if youre into the action RPG games - you upgrade in between levels - use your gold to buy better weapons to do more damage, age elemental damage, charms to give you better defense etc.  "Levelling" is handled with short skill trees that unlock new combos - graphics are awesome

Sports - check out ESPN Football before it ends up as dodo - hands down best NFL game

Baseball I loved the MVP 2004 (I think that was the latest iteration) - pitcher batter is the best / most realistic hands down fieldin gives you some nice options and theres a bunch of cool franchise stuff - players wantin contracts, budgets, tradin deadline and free agent all done very well

And I hate to say it - cause I cant stand the game - but for some serious fun try Tiger Woods with a friend (or many if ya got Live).  Awesome game
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vagabond
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2004, 12:04:27 PM »

I don't play sports games so can't comment on those. Most people say KOTOR is the best RPG on the XBOX, but I disagree. It would have to be a roleplaying game first, it isn't. It's a decently fun game, but you are along for the ride and have little control over anything including the characters. It's a 50 hour movie you have a little input into. I think the lord of the rings roleplaying game is much better. If you liked the movies you will like it. Morrowind is worth playing because it's 20 bucks now. The world is well worth running around in, for a while but it has the worst combat system ever. Barely qualifies as being a combat "system". Fable once again is a decent game, but it is not a role playing game. It's a hack and slasher. None of my top ten console roleplaying games are on the XBOX. Suikoden IV and Xenosaga 2 the two best ones on the horizon, neither are XBOX.
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2004, 12:46:33 PM »

You criticize KOTOR for being a 50 hour movie, then list Xenosaga 2 as being an example of a "good" RPG? lol... The previous Xenosaga was the epitome of movie-as-RPG, and the new one doesn't look to be any different.
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Beer Goggles
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2004, 02:52:57 PM »

Another victi... convert.  biggrin
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Jancelot
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2004, 04:38:22 PM »

KOTOR is the best RPG on the X-Box and definitely one of my favorite RPGs I've ever played. slywink  The sequel I've just started and is supposed to be good but hindered by some technical problems.  The action RPGs listed above are also a lot of fun: Baldur's Gate, D&D Heroes, X-Men.

For sports you of course have NCAA Football and Madden.  Alot of people around here like ESPN football so you should look in to it (I found it far too arcade-ish for my taste).  But the ESPN line (nba, nhl, nfl, ncaa hoops) can all be had for $20 a pop.  Also there was a futuristic game call Deathrow that received a lot of praise as well.  For golf it's Links 2004 or the new Tiger Woods.  Outlaw Golf 2 is fun, and $20, but leans towards 'fun' (and succeeds) over realism.

Congrats on the purchase and welcome!
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farley2k
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2004, 05:08:57 PM »

I hear that EA sports games are the best. smile
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Zero
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2004, 05:17:02 PM »

You've made a very good choice biggrin

I am soo addicted to this thing it's not even funny.  Matter of fact, I just bought another one yesterday so that I can mod it to make it a true media center (using XBMC)  :twisted:   It is definitely one of the best entertainment item that I've bought in years!!

I would second KOTOR...so far it is very good (haven't gotten too far as I'm trying to finish Jedi Academy).  I have Halo 1, and that so far has a pretty good story line (again not too far into it, just ejected from the ship).  For sports game, I really like Top Spin (of course its like the Tennis 2K2 on my dreamcast) - really addicting smile  Also the guys here at work like the Madden and NFL2KX series.

I'm not sure about LOTR:TA...rented that and it was interesting.  Its like the PC Game Disciples 2, but in 3D or something...but not sure if I would buy it.

Morrowind...well, its just one HUGE OPEN BOOK..LOL.  Also I think this is a platinum hit, so you should be able to nab it easily for under $20 (maybe even $10 hehe).
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Kev199
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2004, 08:13:39 PM »

Well, it seems that no XBox exists for sale in the Rochester-Buffalo-Western New York region.  I'm rather disappointed and most of the places don't expect to have a shipment in before the holidays. frown
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vagabond
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2004, 09:15:38 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
You criticize KOTOR for being a 50 hour movie, then list Xenosaga 2 as being an example of a "good" RPG? lol... The previous Xenosaga was the epitome of movie-as-RPG, and the new one doesn't look to be any different.


What you fail to understand is that KOTOR being a movie and Xenosaga not doesn't have anything to do with how many cutscenes there are or how many or how long. It has to do with the characters. Xenosaga had ten times more character development and the characters had an impact on the story. They were the story. In KOTOR, you have a nameless male/female whatever who is the story and even then not much. The other characters are window dressing, they take no active part in the story. Why exactly were ANY of them even there? They didn't accomplish anything, they didn't have any goals of their own. They even mention in the story the main has some kind of nameless and unexplained power that makes others follow her around like puppies because they knew it too.
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ingrin
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2004, 09:49:24 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
Quote from: "Laner"
You criticize KOTOR for being a 50 hour movie, then list Xenosaga 2 as being an example of a "good" RPG? lol... The previous Xenosaga was the epitome of movie-as-RPG, and the new one doesn't look to be any different.


What you fail to understand is that KOTOR being a movie and Xenosaga not doesn't have anything to do with how many cutscenes there are or how many or how long. It has to do with the characters. Xenosaga had ten times more character development and the characters had an impact on the story. They were the story. In KOTOR, you have a nameless male/female whatever who is the story and even then not much. The other characters are window dressing, they take no active part in the story. Why exactly were ANY of them even there? They didn't accomplish anything, they didn't have any goals of their own. They even mention in the story the main has some kind of nameless and unexplained power that makes others follow her around like puppies because they knew it too.

Lack of character development is not what makes a game like a movie.  Linearity is what makes a game like a movie.  Heck, movies (good ones at least) are all about character development.
I can understand complaining that the action in KOTOR is too movielike, with you being able to sitback and watch everyone duke it out if you chose to, but the narrative is decidedly unmovie.  You are given a wealth of decisions that affect the game as a whole.  Sure, there are really only two different endings, but within the context of the light/dark narrative your interim decisions decide the fate of 3 planets.  You also change the fate of countless NPCs and decide whether 5 within your party live or die.  You can also help each one with their individual storyline quests, and while the resulting story may not be as "epic" as a on-the-rail rpg, it can play out quite differently on subsequent playthroughs, giving it long lasting appeal.  I loved how sometime acting with your best (Or worse) intentions could have unexpected results.  I don't think they took this dynamic as far as it could go, however, and hope that KOTOR II has improved upon it with the influence system.
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vagabond
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2004, 11:37:50 PM »

Lack of character development is not what makes a game like a movie. Linearity is what makes a game like a movie. Heck, movies (good ones at least) are all about character development.
I can understand complaining that the action in KOTOR is too movielike, with you being able to sitback and watch everyone duke it out if you chose to, but the narrative is decidedly unmovie. You are given a wealth of decisions that affect the game as a whole. Sure, there are really only two different endings, but within the context of the light/dark narrative your interim decisions decide the fate of 3 planets. You also change the fate of countless NPCs and decide whether 5 within your party live or die. You can also help each one with their individual storyline quests, and while the resulting story may not be as "epic" as a on-the-rail rpg, it can play out quite differently on subsequent playthroughs, giving it long lasting appeal. I loved how sometime acting with your best (Or worse) intentions could have unexpected results. I don't think they took this dynamic as far as it could go, however, and hope that KOTOR II has improved upon it with the influence system.<<<<<<

Actually, in order for a game to have a deep storyline it must be linear. Otherwise with current computer technology it would require the creation of completely different games at every game branch.  This isn't currently practical unfortunately. You do not decide whether your party members live or die, they will live regardless of what you do. I knew which of them would later betray me and I didn't even have any choice in whether I take them along or even tolerate their presence. The game plays out the same whether you are light or dark. The dialogue is in trees that get you to the same place whether you say something nice or tell them to go to hell. The influence system is a lame attempt to act like all this matters when it doesn't. It doesn't do anything, doesn't change the game one iota. The game does not play out differently on subsequent playings, you must not have actually played it more than once. I have, it's the same. I sound like I hate the game, I don't. There is nothing wrong with playing a 50 hour movie as long as it is a good one. This one isn't all that good however, and it would be better if it was actually a role playing game.
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mytocles
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2004, 11:42:16 PM »

well, since Enclave was mentioned, i thought i'd tell you my experience with it - maybe to save you.   it's a gorgeous game, but it is very difficult, therefore can be very frustrating.  after giving up on it, i finally entered a god-mode cheat so i could see the graphics on the rest of the game - it was that pretty.  alas, i kept falling into lava, or other bad places - and i couldn't get out!  couldn't die, but was stuck nonetheless.  i never saw the rest of the game.  if you like a beautiful game, and are an excellent player, you'll get it really cheap bcz i don't think anyone else could play it!

also, for my two other cents, i'll add that (crummy battle system aside), Morrowind was my all time favorite Xbox game, bar none.  i loved Halo and Kotor, Arx, and bunches of others - but once i got past the fact that i couldn't kill the first rat with a knife right away - i was hooked for months.  just warning you...

good luck!

also, see Shaggydoug's post (maybe 20 down from yours, something to the effect of 'i'm finally going to get one of these things".)  there're a few comments on Xbox availability...
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2004, 11:58:33 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
You criticize KOTOR for being a 50 hour movie, then list Xenosaga 2 as being an example of a "good" RPG? lol... The previous Xenosaga was the epitome of movie-as-RPG, and the new one doesn't look to be any different.



LOL i had this post already typed word for word.  Then I saw it had already been posted.  Needless to say I agree with Laner on this one.
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ingrin
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2004, 10:17:18 PM »

Quote from: "vagabond"

Actually, in order for a game to have a deep storyline it must be linear. Otherwise with current computer technology it would require the creation of completely different games at every game branch.  This isn't currently practical unfortunately.

Yeah, that is kinda what I said.  Since, I assume, you understood this going into the game, I don't see why it bothered you.  A branched storyline, with enough well written alternatives,  can be quite satisfying to play through multiple times.  That is the added gameplay element with which KOTOR was packaged.  You sacrificed storyline and some cohesiveness in exchange for different paths and some control of how the story plays out.

Quote from: "vagabond"

You do not decide whether your party members live or die, they will live regardless of what you do. I knew which of them would later betray me and I didn't even have any choice in whether I take them along or even tolerate their presence. The game plays out the same whether you are light or dark. The dialogue is in trees that get you to the same place whether you say something nice or tell them to go to hell. The influence system is a lame attempt to act like all this matters when it doesn't. It doesn't do anything, doesn't change the game one iota.


Yes you do.  You don't get to do it whenever you want, but you are given the opportunity to slay 5 of your teamates playing dark and 2 playing light.  And when I was playing Dark, I wasn't betrayed by anyone, in fact, I was doing all the betraying (Although I did let one person play into my hands).  
And like I said, the game does play out differently depending on how you respond.  Yes, 80% of the time the dialog option wind up at the same place, but the other 20% of the time things can change dramatically, altering the planet you are on.  Its a balance between freedom and narrative.  It allows for a much more satisfying main story than Morrowind, and a better feeling that your input matters than, well, any other RPG game on the Xbox.
The influence system didn't work in the game because, well, it wasn't in the game.  The influence system was implemented in KOTOR 2, which I have not played.

Quote from: "vagabond"

The game does not play out differently on subsequent playings, you must not have actually played it more than once. I have, it's the same. I sound like I hate the game, I don't. There is nothing wrong with playing a 50 hour movie as long as it is a good one. This one isn't all that good however, and it would be better if it was actually a role playing game.

No, actually I played through it twice, once as a lightside male named Ingrin an once as a Darkside female named Yorba Linda.  Did you play through it both times with the same character making the same choices?
Because otherwise it does play out differently, there are two distinct endings, different romance paths, different ways to solve quests, and each planet had a major incident that played out differently, sometimes altering the power structure of the planet, based on your decisions.

Don't get me wrong, the changes aren't vast and for story continuity you can only branch where the narrative lets you.  I found it to be worth it though, because I wasn't just killing monsters and power-leveling. I was defining my character by my actions.
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vagabond
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2004, 01:38:47 AM »

It allows for a much more satisfying main story than Morrowind, and a better feeling that your input matters than, well, any other RPG game on the Xbox. <<<<<

That is a given, although that isn't saying very much.  :lol: You are talking about the first game and I am talking about the second. I wasn't given the opportunity to kill anybody in my party until the very end and by that time the person in question wasn't a member of the party anymore. I was forced to kill the jedi masters, regardless of the fact I didn't really want to while I was playing. I was forced to choose sides in a civil war and regardless of which side you choose the outcome is the same. I somehow ended up on the opposite side I wanted to be on, with no choice in the matter as well. Does this sound like I am in control of the story to you?
Just being present while a story takes place does not qualify as being part of that story, or in having control over it.  Even made worse by the fact this is a prequel. I know no matter how many sith I kill or thwart they will still ultimately win and take over.
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ingrin
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2004, 01:50:07 AM »

Quote from: "vagabond"
It allows for a much more satisfying main story than Morrowind, and a better feeling that your input matters than, well, any other RPG game on the Xbox. <<<<<

That is a given, although that isn't saying very much.  :lol: You are talking about the first game and I am talking about the second. I wasn't given the opportunity to kill anybody in my party until the very end and by that time the person in question wasn't a member of the party anymore. I was forced to kill the jedi masters, regardless of the fact I didn't really want to while I was playing. I was forced to choose sides in a civil war and regardless of which side you choose the outcome is the same. I somehow ended up on the opposite side I wanted to be on, with no choice in the matter as well. Does this sound like I am in control of the story to you?
Just being present while a story takes place does not qualify as being part of that story, or in having control over it.  Even made worse by the fact this is a prequel. I know no matter how many sith I kill or thwart they will still ultimately win and take over.

Then please, learn to call it KOTOR II, a game I am looking forward to and on my Christmas list. A game that I was hoping to play without makor plotpoints being spoiled unlike KOTOR, which was spoiled for me on a messageboard by someone who didn't bother to use spoiler tags in a topic not about KOTOR.  At least it wont happen again, oh wait...
 :cry:
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Kev199
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2004, 01:54:04 AM »

I ended up finding an Xbox at EB Games today and picked up Halo 2 when I was there.  I'm going to rent KOTOR II to see how it plays on the XBox and thanks for the suggestions so far. slywink
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ingrin
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2004, 02:53:58 AM »

Quote from: "Kev199"
I ended up finding an Xbox at EB Games today and picked up Halo 2 when I was there.  I'm going to rent KOTOR II to see how it plays on the XBox and thanks for the suggestions so far. slywink

Great glad to hear it.
I almost forgot to mention Top Spin.  Not sure if Tennis is in the realm of sports games you like, but its about the best thing going in that genre, and it should be cheap now.
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Kev199
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2004, 04:16:53 AM »

Top Spin and NCAA Football 2005 came with the system. slywink
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Zero
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2004, 06:15:32 AM »

Quote from: "ingrin"
Quote from: "Kev199"
I ended up finding an Xbox at EB Games today and picked up Halo 2 when I was there.  I'm going to rent KOTOR II to see how it plays on the XBox and thanks for the suggestions so far. slywink

Great glad to hear it.
I almost forgot to mention Top Spin.  Not sure if Tennis is in the realm of sports games you like, but its about the best thing going in that genre, and it should be cheap now.


Hey!  I mentioned Top Spin....best thing evar since...PONG!  It is truly addicting.  Glad you got your Xbox Kev!
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Driver
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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2004, 01:21:08 PM »

:  I just picked up Deus Ex: Invisible War yesterday and it is an excellent role-playing game.  Great graphics, great story, the ability to stealth it or go in all guns.  Because it's about a full year old now, t's $14 new.

Really - if you played the first one or even if you haven't, give this a go.  I'm surprised by how much I've gotten into it.
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2004, 02:45:12 PM »

Quote from: "Driver"
:  I just picked up Deus Ex: Invisible War yesterday and it is an excellent role-playing game.  Great graphics, great story, the ability to stealth it or go in all guns.  Because it's about a full year old now, t's $14 new.

Really - if you played the first one or even if you haven't, give this a go.  I'm surprised by how much I've gotten into it.


Glad to hear you're enjoying it. I'm playing it now too and it's decidedly mediocre in my estimation...
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2004, 03:58:35 PM »

Quote from: "Driver"
:  I just picked up Deus Ex: Invisible War yesterday and it is an excellent role-playing game.  Great graphics, great story, the ability to stealth it or go in all guns.  Because it's about a full year old now, t's $14 new.

Really - if you played the first one or even if you haven't, give this a go.  I'm surprised by how much I've gotten into it.


How are the controls and load times on the Xbox?  I was planning to pick this up soon, but was probably going to go for the PC version.
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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2004, 04:49:17 PM »

Arx Fatalis was excellent on the xbox. I also just finished Psi-Ops and loved that too.
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Driver
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« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2004, 04:52:33 PM »

There are load times, especially when you first get the game, but I think the controls are excellent.  It's standard FPS movement, and the quick select inventory is controlled with the D-Pad and the regular inventory controlled with 'X.'  Goals handled with black button, biomods with white.

While it may not be for everybody, I don't know how anyone could call the game 'mediocre' -- even if they had played the first game (which I did too).  The control you have over what goals you pursue, how you respond to them, how you interact with people - it is all well done and the story is engaging.

You don't get as many biomod choices as in the first Deus Ex, but they do still affect how you can respond to different situations - computer hacking, stealth movement, combat and regeneration.  

Do you have any specific gripes ATB?

I did read in reviews that the game was optimized for Xbox and ported to the PC, and Mike Tyworth had a great deal of framerate frustration with the PC version when he picked it up last year.  Framerates can drop on the Xbox, but I slowed the mouse movement to 40% for other reasons and haven't noticed it much since.  Between the two, I'd say Xbox is probably the better choice.
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