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Author Topic: How are you feeling about your pre-orders now?  (Read 8473 times)
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gellar
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« Reply #320 on: October 02, 2013, 09:01:02 PM »

I view it entirely from the perspective of 'Do I care about what it does?' From that perspective it warrants at big Dooooooooooooonnnnn'ttttt Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrreeeee.
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« Reply #321 on: October 03, 2013, 01:26:31 AM »

Quote from: gellar on October 02, 2013, 09:01:02 PM

I view it entirely from the perspective of 'Do I care about what it does?' From that perspective it warrants at big Dooooooooooooonnnnn'ttttt Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrreeeee.

Same here. I was actually a beta tester on the original Kinect. I got sent a Kinect and a bunch of games months before it was actually out in stores. I was really psyched about it.....and then I played around with it. The only game that ever came somewhat close to being fun on the Kinect was Dance Central.

MS needs to give up on the Kinect crap and release a version of the XB1 for $299.
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« Reply #322 on: October 03, 2013, 01:42:34 AM »

Pretty much nobody is buying the Xbone for the new Kinect.  They're buying it because the 360 was awesome and the Xbone has some great exclusives coming.  But the way MS is talking, the new Kinect speaks for itself and everyone should be excited about it.

But then we see stuff like this...

"This new Kinect is much more responsive and accurate than the last I’d been told, on multiple occasions. That may be true but it was difficult to tell because Kinect couldn’t recognise me initially, and had my limbs contorting like some Lovecraftian flesh puppet."

"it appears that the Kinect still has significant technical issues when it comes to actual physical gaming."

Kinect Sports Rivals is the closest thing MS has to a killer Kinect launch day app, and it doesn't look like it's going to convince anyone of anything.  So all that's left are the Kinect controls for the TV-watching features and general Xbox navigation.  The TV-watching Kinect features better just blow people away with awesomeness, otherwise all that's left is "yeah it's $100 more but exclusive game X is awesome enough to be worth it," or "nobody can figure out how to make the Kinect fun or useful now, but you just wait a few years!"
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« Reply #323 on: October 03, 2013, 03:59:32 AM »

I'm not going to make any judgment until we see it at launch. IGN said Kinect Sports Rivals was "super responsive."

And from Xbox Magazine:

Quote
The controls are also a big improvement on the original, obviously owing to the Xbox One Kinect's superior specs. The Kinect 2.0 can detect and interpret even the smallest leans and gestures, making controlling your racer feel easy and natural. The precision of the device was hammered home for me during a round of Rock Climbing - the game can instantly detect the difference between a closed fist and an open palm.

Then you've got this guy who doesn't even like Kinect who was impressed:

Metro GameCentral's previews

At this point I've read far more good impressions than bad, so I'm staying optimistic. Without knowing what conditions these journalists were demoing under, it's impossible to say whether the tech is bad or if they were just in a crappy environment for demoing something that is trying to read motion and sound.
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« Reply #324 on: October 03, 2013, 04:05:11 AM »

I don't know how unbiased Official Xbox Magazine is  icon_wink, but yeah. I'm not going to trust much of what I read about the new Kinect until I see some forum impressions.
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« Reply #325 on: October 03, 2013, 04:12:31 AM »

That article talks about a game they're playing, not the Xbox One interface itself. It's a game and it's not due out till 2014.

Some game enhancements with Kinect exist for DR3 - they talked a bit about how zombies react to light and sound - and then mentioned that you can use the Kinect to yell at zombies to get their attention. This may well work for doing the whole tanking thing and drawing aggro. I giggle at the idea of griefing a friend who's trying to sneak around some zombies while I sit beside them. biggrin Hopefully the face recognition software will prevent that (or at least a menu option to disable audio - having a sometimes loud house I'd rather not be at the whim of whomsoever rings the doorbell causing my border collie to go bananas).

For instance, Gellar doesn't care about the integration and some of the cool shit it can do - and there isn't anything wrong with that. The cost/value presentation for him is based primarily around cost. If he tries an Xbone at a buddies place and finds the interface clunky and unresponsive, it will reinforce his decision. If the opposite occurs, he may reconsider, or lament his decision, rocking himself to sleep hugging a broken 360.

But for people to make a decision on what the product is and what it should have before it even hits the market?
"MS needs to give up on the Kinect crap and release a version of the XB1 for $299." that is WAY premature.
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« Reply #326 on: October 03, 2013, 12:13:05 PM »

That Dr3 stuff sounds like it could be done with any microphone,  heck DS games did that stuff. The problem is MS has no showcase Kinect games at launch which seems pretty odd and a bit discouraging.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 03:23:49 PM by forgeforsaken » Logged
gellar
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« Reply #327 on: October 03, 2013, 03:08:47 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 03, 2013, 04:12:31 AM

For instance, Gellar doesn't care about the integration and some of the cool shit it can do - and there isn't anything wrong with that. The cost/value presentation for him is based primarily around cost. If he tries an Xbone at a buddies place and finds the interface clunky and unresponsive, it will reinforce his decision. If the opposite occurs, he may reconsider, or lament his decision, rocking himself to sleep hugging a broken 360.

Well no, if the XBone does anything I actually want it to do, I'll buy one.
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« Reply #328 on: October 03, 2013, 07:25:22 PM »

Quote from: gellar on October 03, 2013, 03:08:47 PM

Quote from: Purge on October 03, 2013, 04:12:31 AM

For instance, Gellar doesn't care about the integration and some of the cool shit it can do - and there isn't anything wrong with that. The cost/value presentation for him is based primarily around cost. If he tries an Xbone at a buddies place and finds the interface clunky and unresponsive, it will reinforce his decision. If the opposite occurs, he may reconsider, or lament his decision, rocking himself to sleep hugging a broken 360.

Well no, if the XBone does anything I actually want it to do, I'll buy one.

I'm sure the Xbone does do things you want it to do - such as playing games.

What if it does things you haven't consciously wanted, but ends up being a convenience you'd rather have? The phrase "want it to do" is nebulous and centers on your own preconceived desires.

My comment above was for situations where you find out, through personal experience that it is more convenient, that it may add value beyond that +100 barrier. For instance, the controller swapping - where you hand your controller to someone else and it switches - if you didn't know about that, were at a friends house and were playing in turns.

Finding out how that works seamlessly (rather than doing the sign-in/sign-out crap) may be a value that at this time only sounds convenient. This is where the whole "Why fix TV" and "TV is HARD" comments come from people who don't know how that experience works. I don't either - but I'm not willing to dictate that the inclusion of said service is a mistake without having hands-on time to experience it.
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« Reply #329 on: October 03, 2013, 09:26:26 PM »

Well of course its on my own preconceived desires. I don't give a fuck about you people's desires.

My decision making process was simple and fact based:
- Nearly Zero launch window exclusives for either system have my interest (I'd probably buy Forza for the XBone or Second Son for the PS4 if I had the system).
- A few potential PS4 exclusives have my interest (anything Naughty Dog makes).
- One XBone "exclusive", Titanfall, has my interest. And I can play that on my PC if I really want it.
- The XBone has shown me absolutely nothing I want that is beyond gaming.

In the above being true, the PS4 is $100 cheaper than the XBone, will have actual exclusives (and not one "exclusive") I will want, and the rest is a wash. Both will let me play pretty versions of ACIV, Ghosts, and Fifa 14. So thus I'm buying a PS4, 99% because its cheaper and 1% because it has one marginal future advantage (Naughty Dog).

If Microsoft had managed to show me something tangible that I can have at or near launch to justify their $100 premium, I probably would have gone that way. I much prefer my 360 to my PS3 and I have some people on my friends list there versus zero on my PS3 (I'm sure it's more than zero, but since I never use it it is effectively zero). But they haven't. They've shown promise. And being in software development myself (specifically in Product Management, so I'm the same guy who makes these 'roadmap presentations' to my customers), I know that everything that is not shipped is subject to modification, change, delay, and disappointment. From my own experience, I don't buy on futures and I don't advise any of my customers to buy on futures.

The issue for the XBone in *my particular case* is that since they failed to convince me to spend the extra $100 today, whatever/whenever they do deliver on the future stuff... it has to be worth the *full price* of their console since the delta is no longer relevant. I'm not saying that's impossible... actually giving me a significantly better DirecTV interface might be worth $500 to me, but it is rather unlikely.

More than likely (and again, this is *for me*), it'll be the same stuff it always has been that would get me to buy an XBone: a price drop and some unforeseen killer exclusive(s).

When I was younger and dumber, I bought both a PS3 and an XBox 360 at launch. While I am considerably better off financially now versus then, I am not nearly as dumb. I only need one right now. The one I don't buy has some serious convincing to do to make me need two.
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Re:
« Reply #330 on: October 03, 2013, 10:13:10 PM »

Well put.  Agreed on all points.
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« Reply #331 on: October 03, 2013, 11:28:14 PM »



Well damn.    gellar has succeeded in making me feel dumb for having scraped, scrounged, and scavenged enough to buy both consoles.

:/
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« Reply #332 on: October 03, 2013, 11:33:52 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on October 03, 2013, 11:28:14 PM



Well damn.    gellar has succeeded in making me feel dumb for having scraped, scrounged, and scavenged enough to buy both consoles.

:/
I'm still impressed by your determination!
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« Reply #333 on: October 04, 2013, 12:18:34 AM »


I think the Xbox folks are a bit more defensive because if you go read any article about Xbox One with a comments section, 90% of it is people talking shit about it. Most of it really unfair criticism

I'm looking forward to a year from now when everybody has settled in with their chosen system and nobody really cares which is better anymore because they're too busy playing games.



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« Reply #334 on: October 04, 2013, 01:59:21 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on October 03, 2013, 11:28:14 PM



Well damn.    gellar has succeeded in making me feel dumb for having scraped, scrounged, and scavenged enough to buy both consoles.

:/

I wish I could get both.....but I just couldn't justify it in the end. I had to choose the one I thought I would get the most enjoyment out of...for me that was easily the PS4. I am really looking forward to Killzone (yes, I like the games!) and all the games I really want (Watch Dogs, Ac4, BF4 and Ghosts) will be on the Ps4 and Xbox. Plus, I have a Vita and using that to remote play my PS4 games is just too cool.
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« Reply #335 on: October 04, 2013, 02:17:16 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on October 03, 2013, 11:28:14 PM



Well damn.    gellar has succeeded in making me feel dumb for having scraped, scrounged, and scavenged enough to buy both consoles.

:/

Don't mind me. Something has happened now that I'm in my 30s... I'm overly logical and have very little OMGWANT when it comes to gaming. I've now moved that irrationality into watches and traveling.
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« Reply #336 on: October 04, 2013, 04:54:50 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on October 04, 2013, 01:59:21 AM

Quote from: msduncan on October 03, 2013, 11:28:14 PM



Well damn.    gellar has succeeded in making me feel dumb for having scraped, scrounged, and scavenged enough to buy both consoles.

:/

I wish I could get both.....but I just couldn't justify it in the end. I had to choose the one I thought I would get the most enjoyment out of...for me that was easily the PS4. I am really looking forward to Killzone (yes, I like the games!) and all the games I really want (Watch Dogs, Ac4, BF4 and Ghosts) will be on the Ps4 and Xbox. Plus, I have a Vita and using that to remote play my PS4 games is just too cool.

If I owned a Vita, I'd be in the same boat (as the PSN+ would then make more sense for my situation).

Just paid off my console pre-order for Xbone today.

2nd controller, playn-charge kits aren't paid for yet, and I have no idea which games I'm getting to review, so while Ryse, FM5, DR3 and Watch Dogs are preordered, that may shift to other games like AC4 or Ghosts.
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« Reply #337 on: October 04, 2013, 08:12:31 AM »

How is buying the XBone considered betting on futures and the PS4 not?  Neither has hit the ground yet so I suppose if you are not a betting man then a wait and see attitude would fit best.
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« Reply #338 on: October 04, 2013, 11:06:07 AM »

PS4's offerings, at this point in time, are not pushing innovation harder. Their console is iterative - not that there is anything wrong with that - but it is a next gen console in the same way that a PC upgrade is a wanted thing without being terribly different.

Xbone is, for better or worse, looking to create different experience than the 360. Entirely different, yet familiar in terms of controls. These are my opinions though, I am not stating them as fact. I just see the PS4 as an upgrade, whereas the Xbone is encouraging developers to use Kinect as control enhancements (rather than the maligned idea of controller replacement for all games). This is the right thing to do.

Also, the second-screen option on the PS4 seems to be restricted to Vitas - another Sony product. Smartglass 2.0 will be available on iOS, Android and Windows platforms. Far more likely to be adopted IMHO. Yes, some programmers are building their own "companion apps" but then their market is fragmented. For instance, the companion app for AC4 holds no interest for me as any iOS or android access I have is limited in performance (older hardware). I'm not going to rush out to get an iPad to play games - it just isn't going to happen.

Smartglass is *also* a fragmentation, as cross-platform games are not necessarily going to devote development time to an app that is only (let's go with half) of the potential market. Maybe they will, who knows, but it's a gamble.

FWIW, the PS4 preorder still stands, though my interest in dropping even more money is waning.
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« Reply #339 on: October 04, 2013, 11:50:05 AM »

The PS4 smart glass equivalent is not restricted to Vita.  They have IOS and android apps.  Screen sharing is something else.

Also it's hard to see how the xb1 isn't iterative where Kinect etc are all available on the 360.
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« Reply #340 on: October 04, 2013, 01:43:20 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on October 04, 2013, 11:50:05 AM

The PS4 smart glass equivalent is not restricted to Vita.  They have IOS and android apps.  Screen sharing is something else.

Also it's hard to see how the xb1 isn't iterative where Kinect etc are all available on the 360.

Yeah, Smartglass is totally different to what the Vita is doing. The Vita actually allows you to play the PS4 game on it. Smartglass is just a companion app....which the playstation will also have for iOS and Android.
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« Reply #341 on: October 04, 2013, 02:00:30 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on October 04, 2013, 11:50:05 AM

The PS4 smart glass equivalent is not restricted to Vita.  They have IOS and android apps.  Screen sharing is something else.

Also it's hard to see how the xb1 isn't iterative where Kinect etc are all available on the 360.

I see the Kinect 1.0 as a proof-of-concept more than anything. They cut it down before release (IE: Kinect 1.0 was more powerful than the eventual Kinect product released to the 360 market). As I understand it, it became cost-prohibitive and putting all that tech into the camera itself (dedicated core, etc) was pushed off to this gen.

If you consider Rockband / Guitar hero / etc... to have peripheral value, then Kinect was for dance games and the like, and it was successful in that market. It simply did ZERO for games in general, and the responsiveness on the dashboard made it unintuitive - frankly the mic on it got more use and even that was spotty at best.

I have no rose-coloured glasses for either SmartGlass (360) or Kinect (360) - I'm hoping the cool stuff that *could have been realized* will make their appearance in this product as it's baked right in. If not, I'll be the first one to criticize the missed potential. But until I have those experiences, I am hopeful.

The Vita, for me, held little interest (having some time with it). I don't get into hand-helds much. The entire DS line - hell, even mobile gaming rarely entertains me - which is why I found it so easy to walk away from my iOS games. Having a remote to allow me to play PS4 games on a hand-held sounds fine, but it isn't as compelling to me as it might be to others. I have a big TV and a full surround system - that's where I want to play my games.

Smartglass is an integration of controls more than it is a second screen. I hate games that shoehorn controls into something that doesn't fit - so trying to get full game control on SmartGlass is, for me, nothing missed. I want to use my phone/tablet as an occasional keyboard instead of having dedicated hardware there. I want to not worry about which platform I have in my hand (yes, *gasp* I could see myself switching off WP8 if 8.1 doesn't deliver and something more compelling comes out with an even better camera).

I also have relatives across the country, and they use Skype. I like the idea of being able to have that conversation while playing a game, or calling home to see my son in the livingroom playing a game while I'm on a trip and just have it "work". I also hate the guide in my current PVR, and I also haven't dropped cash on a decent universal remote so I bounce between two or three. These are things that make sense to me, and I like the idea of having a console that can take care of all that crap for me, plus fire up a game and create an MP lobby while waiting for friends, and let me do other things on it like watch TV etc.

If a decent DLNA client comes out as an app on the XBone, then I can stream video etc right from there.

That, to me, is thinking about the entire experience. Sharing what I'm playing, having someone else help me past a section of a game? Cool, but doesn't hold up.
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« Reply #342 on: October 04, 2013, 02:15:52 PM »

If I had to choose one at this point, I'd take the PS4.

Gellar's points echo mine almost perfectly. 

At this point in time, the only reason I'd get one is to play the next gen version of COD...but since i've been out of that game for 2 years, I'll probably just get it on 360.
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« Reply #343 on: October 04, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 04, 2013, 04:54:50 AM

Just paid off my console pre-order for Xbone today.

2nd controller, playn-charge kits aren't paid for yet, and I have no idea which games I'm getting to review, so while Ryse, FM5, DR3 and Watch Dogs are preordered, that may shift to other games like AC4 or Ghosts.

I think I may need to look into a new headset myself.  was planning on running my old Turtle Beach set through my TV's optical port, but I'll be damned if I can find one on this one.  I may get the Polk 4shot.
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« Reply #344 on: October 04, 2013, 04:30:04 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 04, 2013, 03:57:12 PM

I may get the Polk 4shot.

No Mic...?
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« Reply #345 on: October 04, 2013, 04:32:41 PM »

Quote from: ATB on October 04, 2013, 04:30:04 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 04, 2013, 03:57:12 PM

I may get the Polk 4shot.

No Mic...?


it's there:

Quote
Retractable near-field gaming microphone is never in the way

I think it is the portion that is sticking out from the bottom.
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« Reply #346 on: October 04, 2013, 04:34:57 PM »

here's a closer pic of the mic:



of course, you also have the Kinect.  the headset is going to be for late night gaming.
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« Reply #347 on: October 04, 2013, 05:00:56 PM »

I'm kind of the opposite of gellar. Whereas he isn't interested in anything besides gaming, I'm not interested in *just* gaming. Really the main reason I swung back to the Xbox One was that I realized my PS4 was going to be nothing but a clone of my PC. It added absolutely no value in terms of allowing me to do something I couldn't already do.

At least the Xbox One allows me to do things my PC doesn't (at least not without buying a bunch of add-ons and shoehorning them in). I refer to TV integration, voice control, gesture control, head tracking, etc.

Plus I think the kids will have a blast with the Kinect now that they're a little older.

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« Reply #348 on: October 04, 2013, 05:48:11 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 04, 2013, 04:34:57 PM

here's a closer pic of the mic:



of course, you also have the Kinect.  the headset is going to be for late night gaming.

That's pretty neat.
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« Reply #349 on: October 05, 2013, 01:57:41 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on October 04, 2013, 05:00:56 PM

I'm kind of the opposite of gellar. Whereas he isn't interested in anything besides gaming, I'm not interested in *just* gaming. Really the main reason I swung back to the Xbox One was that I realized my PS4 was going to be nothing but a clone of my PC. It added absolutely no value in terms of allowing me to do something I couldn't already do.

At least the Xbox One allows me to do things my PC doesn't (at least not without buying a bunch of add-ons and shoehorning them in). I refer to TV integration, voice control, gesture control, head tracking, etc.

Plus I think the kids will have a blast with the Kinect now that they're a little older.



I can't believe we've entered an era when "focusing on games" is actually a bad thing now.  Haven't we been criticizing consoles for not doing this for at least the past 7 years?
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« Reply #350 on: October 05, 2013, 02:32:19 AM »

Quote
I can't believe we've entered an era when "focusing on games" is actually a bad thing now.  Haven't we been criticizing consoles for not doing this for at least the past 7 years?

I never said focusing on games was a bad thing. And I certainly haven't been criticizing consoles for not doing it. Find me a person who *doesn't* like the fact that their PS3 or Xbox 360 streams Netflix.

Besides, it's not the console manufacturer's responsibility to focus on games. Their job is to put consoles into homes. It's the developers' jobs to make great games for those consoles. And if a company can put a console into the home of a casual or non-gamer by incorporating some non-gaming focused features, that's a bigger potential revenue stream for developers.

Finally, it's ridiculous to think that a company the size of Microsoft can't multi-task. Hell, my department has 150 people and has 160 projects planned for next year. Microsoft has nearly 100,000 employees worldwide. I think they can probably figure it out. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Microsoft isn't committed to making the Xbox One a great gaming system, other than the fact that it can also do one other non-gaming related function which is TV integration.


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« Reply #351 on: October 05, 2013, 02:50:22 AM »

There is a article up today that compares Smart Glass and the Playstation offerings. Their verdict: The playstation second screen offerings, (the new app and Vita) stomp all over Smart Glass.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/168050-ps4-and-xbox-one-both-have-second-screen-functionality-but-does-it-matter

« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 02:54:03 AM by Hetz » Logged

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wonderpug
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« Reply #352 on: October 05, 2013, 03:09:12 AM »

That article seems to make some mighty assumptions about how many people own Vitas (or how many consumers have even heard of the Vita).
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« Reply #353 on: October 05, 2013, 03:39:45 AM »

maybe I won't end up getting rid of my Vita after all.  been considering it, got PSN games for it but never touch the thing.  of course I may not get a PS4 for awhile so it is tempting-  Amazon is offering me $112 for it right now, and I only paid around $200 after discounts.  that would take a nice chunk out of those headsets smile
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« Reply #354 on: October 05, 2013, 03:56:18 AM »

Quote
That article seems to make some mighty assumptions about how many people own Vitas (or how many consumers have even heard of the Vita).

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They're mixing second-screen functionality with game streaming, which are two totally different things (at least right now). They're comparing a dedicated handheld gaming device to a generic smartphone/tablet...this is like reading a comparison between apples and anteaters - and the apples they're talking about are actually pears.

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« Reply #355 on: October 05, 2013, 04:03:58 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on October 05, 2013, 03:56:18 AM

Quote
That article seems to make some mighty assumptions about how many people own Vitas (or how many consumers have even heard of the Vita).

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They're mixing second-screen functionality with game streaming, which are two totally different things (at least right now). They're comparing a dedicated handheld gaming device to a generic smartphone/tablet...this is like reading a comparison between apples and anteaters - and the apples they're talking about are actually pears.



I think that was the point of the article-Sony will have both but right now Microsoft is limited to "second screen" (if I've got my tech vocabulary right). I'm guessing both of the "second screen" tech will be pretty similar between the two consoles with not much to distinguish them. On the other hand, streaming Halo 4 onto a tablet? How many people want to play a console game on a tablet with only on-screen controls? For a lot of games, that would really suck.
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« Reply #356 on: October 05, 2013, 04:05:58 AM »

just wait until they reveal the Pocket Xbone!

'is that an Xbone in your pocket or are you just happy- OH MY GOD YOU ARE JUST HAPPY TO SEE ME....'
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« Reply #357 on: October 05, 2013, 12:13:10 PM »

Who says the controls have to be touch screen only? Microsoft could release a $30 Bluetooth controller. Problem solved.
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« Reply #358 on: October 05, 2013, 01:26:14 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on October 05, 2013, 12:13:10 PM

Who says the controls have to be touch screen only? Microsoft could release a $30 Bluetooth controller. Problem solved.
Fair enough, that's a good point.
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« Reply #359 on: October 05, 2013, 01:34:09 PM »

Thanks, but I didn't think of it - I saw in the comments section of that article that with the Halo 4 streamed demo that Microsoft did, they were using some sort of wireless controller.  smile
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