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Author Topic: HL2 news - does this actuall make people feel better?  (Read 3723 times)
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farley2k
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« on: October 13, 2004, 02:09:01 PM »

Many news sites are posting this blurb.

Quote
HL Fallout posted some information from an "anonymous industry insider" regarding the release of Half-Life 2 (they seem pretty reliable so what the hell). Here's the latest poop:
Vivendi is very eager to get the game out ASAP and Valve submitted RC5 late last week to Vivendi for testing. I think they were down to three show stoppers after RC4, nothing huge. They're being very careful about getting a stable release out the door and with all the big reviews hitting the net I'm not surprised. It's looking to be something very special. The delays are not Vivendi sitting on a finished game or Valve not playing fair.


Now does that make anyone feel better?

Only "3 show stoppers!"  is said like we should be excited that despite saying it would be done last year and spending a year getting it done that they only have 3 show stopping bugs!  Yippie!  They deserve a treat.

I know I am being hard on them but come on.  To still have show stopping bugs in release candidate 3?  I thought that when Valve gave release candidate 1 they were saying they felt the game was well...releaseable.  Then VU looks it over and catches any minor other bugs.  However I must have been totally wrong.  Apparently what it means to give a RC to the publisher is "we know it is screwed up and broken but we are sick of dealing with it.  Just tell us what has to be fixed for you to push it on to consumers."


That certainly didn't make me feel better.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 02:12:01 PM »

Shouldn't this be in Road to Gold slywink   <ducks>

It kind of makes you wonder what the reviewers were given if there are 'show stoppers' still in the game.
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 02:26:57 PM »

Many times in my career as engineer who happens to write code have I experienced show stoppers. Often right after I give "releaseable" code to a test user.

Often times the said test user finds a couple of show stoppers. Does this make me a bad programmer?  I like to think not, and I challenge other coders to provide anecdotal experience to the contrary.

Now, the code I have written involves a simple window with simple text commands and/or looking for input files. Imagine how much harder it would be to find bugs in an FPS which includes multiplayer, AI, and all the rest.

And what is the rant about anyway? Is it about the fact that they aren't releasing the code because there are 3 show-stoppers?  Or is this from some pre-conceived managerial notion that they've had enough time to catch all the bugs? I've had managers who thought that way only to be shown the error of their thinking.
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 02:27:43 PM »

If they're not doing any in-depth testing in-house at Valve then show stoppers will always get through.  It's impossible to predict what users will try to do with software.  Sure it's taken a heckuva long time to finish the game, but it seems like they're actually close this time.  So we're now hearing about the real issues with releasing the game instead of the questionable problems of the past.  Now if they push it off another 6 months because of a 'major' show stopper or something...
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farley2k
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 02:31:23 PM »

Quote from: "raydude"
Many times in my career as engineer who happens to write code have I experienced show stoppers. Often right after I give "releaseable" code to a test user.

Often times the said test user finds a couple of show stoppers. Does this make me a bad programmer?  I like to think not, and I challenge other coders to provide anecdotal experience to the contrary.

Now, the code I have written involves a simple window with simple text commands and/or looking for input files. Imagine how much harder it would be to find bugs in an FPS which includes multiplayer, AI, and all the rest.

And what is the rant about anyway? Is it about the fact that they aren't releasing the code because there are 3 show-stoppers?  Or is this from some pre-conceived managerial notion that they've had enough time to catch all the bugs? I've had managers who thought that way only to be shown the error of their thinking.


1. my rant it is about my gerenal annoyance that anything to do with HL2 is news.  Most specifically it has to do with my annoyance that somehow this little tidbit was suposed to make us feel better or at least show that HL2 is progressing.  All it makes me see is that Valve's PR is terrible.  

2. I am probably being to hard on them but when your game is this big I think people tend to be hard on it.
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farley2k
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 02:34:42 PM »

Quote from: "CeeKay"
Shouldn't this be in Road to Gold slywink   <ducks>

It kind of makes you wonder what the reviewers were given if there are 'show stoppers' still in the game.


Yes it probably should.  I forgot it was open again!   Howver I can't move it so for now it will stay here.
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Butterknife
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 03:36:38 PM »

In my experience, publishers will sometimes call a bug a "show-stopper" even if it isn't.  I've had a publisher send me a triple-A priority crash bug that one of our characters had the wrong color hair.  Admittedly, that is an extreme example, but it does emphasize a point.  Often times, a testing department will also submit "bugs" that are actually design changes they would like to see in the game, not true bugs.

To me as a programmer, the only real time a bug is a "show-stopper" is if the bug causes the game to crash or lock up.  Graphical artifacts are high priority, but if the game doesn't crash it's not a "show-stopper" in my book.  But to a publisher, a "show-stopper" could be anything.  So I wouldn't take this news as bad, probably just an issue of definitions.
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gorky1
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2004, 04:25:04 PM »

Well, if they're real show-stoppers and it took four release candidates and who knows how many play-throughs to find them, it's actually a good sign, IMO. It could mean you can complete the game in many different ways.
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2004, 04:30:16 PM »

I think Butterknife is right. You are taking 'show-stoppers' to literally. I think it just means they found 3 things (however big or small) that they want fixed before release. Not a big deal. Besides, I'm willing to bet that 6 months after this game is released, there will still be issues that come up. That is not a bash on the game, it is just a general fact of life.
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2004, 04:59:23 PM »

Where i used to work "show stoppers" could range from crash bugs to misspelling something, so there's a range of stopper-age.

And if that statement doesn't make you feel better, would it make you feel better if they said they found show stoppers but WEREN'T holding up the release to fix them?  Tongue
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2004, 11:36:36 PM »

Speaking of show-stopping bugs.

does anyone else remember SIN (that other FPS that came out right before the original Half-Life)

That thing was ridiculously broken when it released. Like the 1st boss didn't even attack you - just stood there happy as a clam while you slowly killed him, and the entire game would crash after 20 minutes of playing.
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gwartok
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2004, 01:34:27 AM »

It doesn't make me feel better either. I'm really so sick of the entire fiasco now that I won't be touching it for months after release, if ever.

On a side note, I think any periodicals reviewing an unfinished product are unethical and screwing their readers. Wasn't there a big stink about driv3r just earlier this year because several rags posted glowing reviews of a buggy preview that was going to be "fixed" before release? HL2 might come through and deliver but I think sometime soon alot of mags/sites are going to get seriously burned whoring themselves out for reviews like this.
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2004, 02:27:21 AM »

Quote from: "DarkEL"
Speaking of show-stopping bugs.

does anyone else remember SIN (that other FPS that came out right before the original Half-Life)

That thing was ridiculously broken when it released. Like the 1st boss didn't even attack you - just stood there happy as a clam while you slowly killed him, and the entire game would crash after 20 minutes of playing.


Oh yeah. The demo was awesome, but the game blew because of the bugs. They had a 20MB patch or something like that after it was released. That was fun on my 28.8.  :?
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2004, 03:19:57 AM »

Wasn't SIN the game that took like 10 minutes to load the first level? Yeah, that one was in bad shape, but it wasn't worse than Descent To Undermountain, or The Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned when it comes to the OOTB experience.
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2004, 03:56:06 AM »

I love that none of us had seen a single thing on Half-Life 2 before May 2003. Now a mere year and a half later tons of people are calling this a incredibly delayed game and whining everytime anything is said about it. Sure the release announcement was stupid, but who really cares? How many games are released within a year and a half of announcement?

I laugh that anyone here takes themselves seriously. Enjoy the game, drop the complaining, do something else with your life. When it comes out it will be good.
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2004, 06:09:30 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Oh yeah. The demo was awesome, but the game blew because of the bugs. They had a 20MB patch or something like that after it was released. That was fun on my 28.8.  :?
Oh god yes - the demo was wonderful, and I remember how fun it was playing the multiplayer map "behind zee bookcase" in that demo.
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2004, 06:17:53 AM »

Quote from: "DarkEL"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Oh yeah. The demo was awesome, but the game blew because of the bugs. They had a 20MB patch or something like that after it was released. That was fun on my 28.8.  :?
Oh god yes - the demo was wonderful, and I remember how fun it was playing the multiplayer map "behind zee bookcase" in that demo.


I wanted to shoot myself with that demo.  I spent HOURS downloading it with my 33.6k modem.  And in the end, it was worthless.  The game itself was mildly fun with some really cheesy graphics.  The expansion was better especially with vehicle multiplayer.

BTW, Ritual is having a 6th anniversary SIN CTF game on their server (217.172.188.96:22460) on October 29th where you can play against Levelord and the rest of the Ritual crew.
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2004, 11:25:59 AM »

I don't care. I'm very patent and can wait. I'm pretty sure that the game will be amazing, and that future patches will fix any problems.
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2004, 01:37:56 PM »

Meh - I found a "show stopper" in the original Half-Life (making it impossible to get out of the dumpster after you were knocked out), a bug which made it impossible for me to continue, but didn't affect the majority of gamers.  It was eventually patched, but while it was severe for me, I was in the distinct minority.  I would imagine this is the kind of thing they're talking about, not bugs that will affect every player every time.
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2004, 02:22:38 PM »

Quote from: "BigRedCat"
I love that none of us had seen a single thing on Half-Life 2 before May 2003. Now a mere year and a half later tons of people are calling this a incredibly delayed game and whining everytime anything is said about it. Sure the release announcement was stupid, but who really cares? How many games are released within a year and a half of announcement?

I laugh that anyone here takes themselves seriously. Enjoy the game, drop the complaining, do something else with your life. When it comes out it will be good.



Of course the first thing we heard was "It will be out Sept. 30th 20031"  So from that standpoint it is an incredibly delayed game!  It has slipped past a "firm" release date by over a year.  


I laugh at anyone who come into threads knowing full well they are about complaining and then act like people shouldn't complain.  Why do you even come into the thread?
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JayG
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2004, 03:19:41 PM »

To complain about the complainers.
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khomotso
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2004, 03:52:02 PM »

To answer the original question, it makes me feel better.  To be this long overdue with this much anticipation, and then to still have people stubbornly taking their time to work things out ... well, I can't help but feel reassured that it's not a big cluster****.
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raydude
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2004, 08:09:34 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"

Of course the first thing we heard was "It will be out Sept. 30th 20031"  So from that standpoint it is an incredibly delayed game!  It has slipped past a "firm" release date by over a year.  


I dunno, but it seems they beat their release date by 18,027 years!  :shock:  Go Valve!  :wink:
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2004, 08:20:42 PM »

If they hurried and shipped it before it is ready (TOEE anyone?) we'd complain.

If they take too long to ship it, we'll complain.

I don't understand the sheer amount of emotion involved in waiting for a game.  I don't recommend fluffing Gabe but I also don't think he's the Antichrist either.
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farley2k
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2004, 08:26:12 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
If they hurried and shipped it before it is ready (TOEE anyone?) we'd complain.

If they take too long to ship it, we'll complain.

I don't understand the sheer amount of emotion involved in waiting for a game.  I don't recommend fluffing Gabe but I also don't think he's the Antichrist either.



I think for me personally it is more to do with...well I find bitching fun. smile  And there is no shortage of screw ups by Valves PR.
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farley2k
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2004, 08:26:38 PM »

Quote from: "raydude"
Quote from: "farley2k"

Of course the first thing we heard was "It will be out Sept. 30th 20031"  So from that standpoint it is an incredibly delayed game!  It has slipped past a "firm" release date by over a year.  


I dunno, but it seems they beat their release date by 18,027 years!  :shock:  Go Valve!  :wink:



 :oops:
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2004, 08:42:59 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
If they hurried and shipped it before it is ready (TOEE anyone?) we'd complain.

If they take too long to ship it, we'll complain.

I don't understand the sheer amount of emotion involved in waiting for a game.  I don't recommend fluffing Gabe but I also don't think he's the Antichrist either.


Yeah.  I want this game more than pretty much anything else on the horizon, but it'll be out when it'll be out.  Anticipation is part of the fun of being a gamer but it can be exhausting too... sometimes best just to let go.
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2004, 10:37:10 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
If they hurried and shipped it before it is ready (TOEE anyone?) we'd complain.

If they take too long to ship it, we'll complain.

I don't understand the sheer amount of emotion involved in waiting for a game.  I don't recommend fluffing Gabe but I also don't think he's the Antichrist either.


So long as it didn't format my machine when I went to install it I think it'd be alright. smile
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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2004, 07:08:27 PM »

I'm glad to hear them finding showstopping bugs BEFORE it's installed on half a zillion computers across the globe.
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