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Author Topic: Hellgate:London's multiplayer to be subscription based  (Read 5718 times)
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wonderpug
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2007, 01:46:14 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2007, 05:22:59 AM

Quote from: Canuck on January 10, 2007, 04:16:50 AM

Slippery slope. Fortunately you have a choice of not buying these games.

Which part is the slippery slope?

Not the dictionary's slippery slope, the internet version.
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farley2k
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2007, 01:47:32 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 09, 2007, 09:39:54 PM

There is no large outcry that Oblivion is single player only with no mp support.  Can you imagine the outrage if Blizzard announced that Diablo 3 was single player only? 

Why would there be an outcry when Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, and Morrowind didn't have MP support either - the elder scrolls games are not MP games. 

Meanwhile D1, and D2 both had strong MP parts so consumers can expect that more realistically.





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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2007, 01:54:09 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on January 10, 2007, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 09, 2007, 09:39:54 PM

There is no large outcry that Oblivion is single player only with no mp support.  Can you imagine the outrage if Blizzard announced that Diablo 3 was single player only? 

Why would there be an outcry when Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, and Morrowind didn't have MP support either - the elder scrolls games are not MP games. 

Meanwhile D1, and D2 both had strong MP parts so consumers can expect that more realistically.

Er, that's my whole point!  Hellgate is being specifically targeted as a successor to Diablo so the expectations are for it to have similar multiplayer content.  So as soon as you've made the argument "just ignore mp and play it for single player" then it's already going to come up short against Diablo 2.   The same is not true of Elder Scrolls so it was a poor comparision. 
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2007, 02:39:57 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2007, 05:22:59 AM

Quote from: Canuck on January 10, 2007, 04:16:50 AM

Slippery slope. Fortunately you have a choice of not buying these games.

Which part is the slippery slope?

The part about paying for extra content from a game that is not an MMORPG.  People are arguing that a piece of horse armour and the entire multiplayer portion of a game are not related.  I don't see how they are not.  That is the whole point of the slippery slope-it starts out very small and easy to swallow.  If it had have started with a developer chopping off the entire multiplayer portion of the game we would have told them to go straight to hell.  But they started small.  Couple bucks for some armour, couple hundred points for some cheat codes, a few more bucks for a small, extra mission in a game.  Then it's 'off with the multiplayer'! And we say, meh well I wont pick it up first day.
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM »

You know, I remember buying computer games 15 years ago and thinking that $50 was a lot of money.

They still cost $50.

Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?
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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2007, 05:51:29 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 10, 2007, 01:54:09 PM

Er, that's my whole point!  Hellgate is being specifically targeted as a successor to Diablo so the expectations are for it to have similar multiplayer content.  So as soon as you've made the argument "just ignore mp and play it for single player" then it's already going to come up short against Diablo 2.   The same is not true of Elder Scrolls so it was a poor comparison. 

Well...yeah....ummm....that makes sense. I think I misunderstood your point. retard
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2007, 05:54:07 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on January 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM

You know, I remember buying computer games 15 years ago and thinking that $50 was a lot of money.

They still cost $50.

Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?
Diablo II cost $60 when it came out.
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Calvin
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2007, 06:08:54 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 10, 2007, 05:54:07 PM

Quote from: Exodor on January 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM

You know, I remember buying computer games 15 years ago and thinking that $50 was a lot of money.

They still cost $50.

Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?
Diablo II cost $60 when it came out.

Dragon Warrior 2 cost 70$ when it came out smile
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Farscry
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2007, 08:47:19 PM »

Quote from: Samurai on January 09, 2007, 10:00:04 PM

Once again this is a chance to vote with your wallet folks. Don't just bitch about it on the intarweb, DON'T BUY THE GAME!

And start bitching to people who DO buy it.  icon_mad

Unless fyedaddy picks up the game to play multiplayer with me, I generally never care if a pc game has an online component. I've pretty much expected since day one of anticipation that Hellgate would be primarily a single-player game for me, and I've been anticipating it hugely ever since I learned about it.

While this news dampens my enthusiasm somewhat (since fyedaddy won't get getting it now, and thus I won't have any reason for multiplayer), as long as I get the solid, fun, highly replayable and deep (for those who like the kind of depth that games like Diablo 2 offer) then it'll be worth a purchase for me.

My only concern is if they hack out part of the single player game as a part of this. Otherwise, if you object to paying for multiplayer, either don't buy the game if you aren't interested in single player, or don't pay for the multiplayer.

Almost the entirety of the 6+ years I've played Diablo 2 have been single-player gaming. So you can vote with your wallet if you wish; I advise that. I do it all the time. But don't bitch at people like me who pay for the single-player game because they want the single-player game.
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EddieA
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2007, 09:12:27 PM »

"Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?"
You have a point.  I can only assume that development costs keep rising, yet people (understandably) aren't willing to pay any more for games.  I don't think it's surprising that companies are looking for new ways to make money from games, since they're pretty much limited on the initial pricing.  Oblivion cost the same as Arena, even though the budget for Oblivion probably dwarfed that of Arena.  As long as it's sensible (such as the small mods for Oblivion for a few dollars or unobtrusive in-game ads), I have no problem with it.

However, charging for multiplayer in a Diablo-like game seems like a really boneheaded move.  With games like Titan Quest offering free multiplayer and WoW offering a lot more for the monthly fee, I can't see a whole lot of people being willing to pay for Hellgate's multiplayer portion.
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2007, 09:22:57 PM »

People have been paying to play the multiplayer part of a game ever since XBox Live debuted.  This isn't much different.

I fully expect them to charge to play multi so they can make the $$ off people who must do the multiplayer thing.  And then I expect them to either drop the price as interest dries up or make it free so they can have a headline "Now Free!!!".

And I'm with Farscry - I hardly ever play multi so this is pretty much a non-issue to me.  Especially since I doubt my computer will run it.
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« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2007, 01:31:46 AM »

Well, another thing is that much of the content for the game is instanced.  It's like DDO in effect.  Not only that but unless they're running their own instance server farm.  Those instances are being run on player computers.  So all you're really doing is paying to have the server send you a randomized instance that your PC can already generate, and maybe do some error/cheat detection on other players.

Oh and there's some matching software.

Now, if they were serious about the new content thing.  Just try doing what Guild Wars did.  Free online play, but with constant expansions with new content.
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« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2007, 02:15:28 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on January 11, 2007, 01:31:46 AM

Well, another thing is that much of the content for the game is instanced.  It's like DDO in effect.  Not only that but unless they're running their own instance server farm.  Those instances are being run on player computers.  So all you're really doing is paying to have the server send you a randomized instance that your PC can already generate, and maybe do some error/cheat detection on other players.

Oh and there's some matching software.

Now, if they were serious about the new content thing.  Just try doing what Guild Wars did.  Free online play, but with constant expansions with new content.

Well the info you have provided basically makes this even more of an annoyance-they are basically giving you almost nothing for what might be a monthly fee. Absurd.
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« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2007, 03:15:37 AM »

FWIW, they seem to be backpedalling on this.  I think Roper and Co. are trying to chalk this up to a misunderstanding and "nothing has been finalized" but I really think they just got blindsided by a bunch of bad PR and are maybe rethinking things. 
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« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2007, 04:10:20 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 11, 2007, 03:15:37 AM

FWIW, they seem to be backpedalling on this.  I think Roper and Co. are trying to chalk this up to a misunderstanding and "nothing has been finalized" but I really think they just got blindsided by a bunch of bad PR and are maybe rethinking things. 

I agree with your interpretation 100%
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« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2007, 08:00:26 PM »

Users will simply bypass this using Hamachi most likely.

Oh and screw them for doing it.
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« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2007, 04:01:00 AM »

Quote from: CSL on January 11, 2007, 08:00:26 PM

Users will simply bypass this using Hamachi most likely.

Oh and screw them for doing it.

Count me as a hamachi user if I have to pay for their servers...
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« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2007, 04:53:20 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 12, 2007, 04:01:00 AM

Quote from: CSL on January 11, 2007, 08:00:26 PM

Users will simply bypass this using Hamachi most likely.

Oh and screw them for doing it.

Count me as a hamachi user if I have to pay for their servers...

+1
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« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2007, 05:09:20 AM »

My Dad used to love grilling on our little hamachi...or was that hibachi?  icon_wink
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« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2007, 06:42:29 AM »

hamachi only works if a game has a LAN option right?

I mean you can't use hamachi to play on Hellgate's own persistent secure servers right?
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Farscry
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« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2007, 08:48:38 PM »

According to the latest GFW podcast, apparently the Shacknews reporter who was speaking with Roper and started this whole mess took his statements far out of context and extrapolated conclusions that simply weren't given.
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« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on January 12, 2007, 08:48:38 PM

According to the latest GFW podcast, apparently the Shacknews reporter who was speaking with Roper and started this whole mess took his statements far out of context and extrapolated conclusions that simply weren't given.

I've read reporting from other outlets at CES like Gamespot that seemed to back up what the Shacknews article said so I'm unclear if that's what really happening or if that's the spin Flagship is trying to apply. 
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« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2007, 09:02:14 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on January 12, 2007, 06:42:29 AM

hamachi only works if a game has a LAN option right?

LAN or Direct IP Connect in my experience.
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« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2007, 10:02:06 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 12, 2007, 08:52:58 PM

Quote from: Farscry on January 12, 2007, 08:48:38 PM

According to the latest GFW podcast, apparently the Shacknews reporter who was speaking with Roper and started this whole mess took his statements far out of context and extrapolated conclusions that simply weren't given.

I've read reporting from other outlets at CES like Gamespot that seemed to back up what the Shacknews article said so I'm unclear if that's what really happening or if that's the spin Flagship is trying to apply. 

Well official word from Hellgate did not thing to completely dispell the rumors, simply stating that no decisions on pricing had been made. So while they may not have already decided to charge for MP, they certainly have not ruled it out.
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Farscry
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« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2007, 10:14:06 PM »

The COO made an official statement in the main Hellgate fansite's forum that they are committed to providing a solid, free multiplayer experience. They are looking into what avenues they can find to fun continuing development and a fully staffed team to continue work on the game past release, including the possibility of mmo-style features for a subscription structure.

I can't access the fansite from work, but I can get a link for you guys later if you'd like.

If they are just doing damage control, that's fine by me as that means that at least they're listening to their potential customers. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2007, 04:37:53 AM »

Alright guys, since I promised, here's the official statement

icon_biggrin
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« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2007, 05:40:29 AM »

Quote
Obviously the topic of the day is the news from CES, and the controversy on pay models. We want the best of both worlds: free play for both single- and multi-player, AND an ongoing revenue model to fund the expansion of our world through ongoing content - something we never were able to do with the Diablo series at Blizzard. Exactly how we get there is the subject of ongoing discussion, but rest assured we're committed to significant free online multi-player play!

Yeah, cuz the Diablo series was so stagnant because they couldn't make any additional revenue on it.

I smell something.  Something that I'm going to hate about this game.
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« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2007, 03:49:20 PM »

I find it interesting that any time someone says something embarassing, controversial, or false, it's because a reporter took them out of context.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2007, 05:43:55 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on January 13, 2007, 03:49:20 PM

I find it interesting that any time someone says something embarassing, controversial, or false, it's because a reporter took them out of context.

-Autistic Angel

This just in: A recent message from Autistic Angel indicates that he finds "it" embarrassing.  Whatever the "it" is referring to, perhaps an addiction to Windex, perhaps an attraction to hairy women, this reporter cannot say.
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« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2007, 05:51:20 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on January 13, 2007, 05:43:55 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on January 13, 2007, 03:49:20 PM

I find it interesting that any time someone says something embarassing, controversial, or false, it's because a reporter took them out of context.

-Autistic Angel

This just in: A recent message from Autistic Angel indicates that he finds "it" embarrassing.  Whatever the "it" is referring to, perhaps an addiction to Windex, perhaps an attraction to hairy women, this reporter cannot say.

You can't pass that off as fact!  Not without using the [RUMOR] tag anyway.   icon_twisted
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« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2007, 10:01:45 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on January 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM

You know, I remember buying computer games 15 years ago and thinking that $50 was a lot of money.

They still cost $50.

Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?

Music CD's.  I can find great deals on DVD's that cost a lot less now than they did when DVD's were first released.  Electronics have come down in price (Stand DF is way down,  HD is dropping in price).  DVD players are much cheaper than they were at release.  I pay the same for shirts now as I did many, many years ago.  All are consumer goods.
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« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2007, 05:54:35 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2007, 06:08:54 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 10, 2007, 05:54:07 PM

Quote from: Exodor on January 10, 2007, 05:17:54 PM

You know, I remember buying computer games 15 years ago and thinking that $50 was a lot of money.

They still cost $50.

Can you think of any other consumer good that has remained at the same price for the last 15 years?
Diablo II cost $60 when it came out.

Dragon Warrior 2 cost 70$ when it came out smile

And Space Invaders for the 2600 cost $99 back in the day.
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« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2007, 07:34:58 AM »

Phantasy Star IV for the Genesis cost $100 when it was released.
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