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Author Topic: Has There Ever Been a Better Trilogy than POP?  (Read 2051 times)
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ATB
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« on: January 31, 2006, 01:01:08 PM »

I am in the midst of the masterpiece that is The Two Thrones and I got to wondering if there has ever been a better gaming trilogy- the games have delivered for each and every outing.

Lots of people had problems with POP:WW, but I didn't and I thought the game- and especially the boss battles- were a very good time.

SoT- was an all time classic as far as I'm concerned.
TTT- while I'm only about 4 hrs in, is right up there as well- some of the new 'innovations' like the dagger hang and the whole Dark Prince mechanic are wonderful.

ATB's Grades of the Series

PoP:SoT: A+ A sublime Title
PoP:WW A A great game, but not quite as good as SoT
PoP: TTT- Already and A+.

That said, I would chunk the KOTOR series in the greatest trilogies ever, if the third one is made and I play it and it rocks.  But that remains to be seen.

There was Wing Commander (if I recall the 3rd one was the last one before it got so bloated with FMV that it got to be too much).

Others?
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 01:08:12 PM »

Lots would disagree with me but the Baldur's Gate trilogy on the PC (BG1, BG2 + Throne of Baal - at least they considered it a trilogy as the expansion was so big) certainly counts.  But I actually couldn't get into the first PoP after two different tries.
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 01:11:45 PM »

I much prefer the Thief trilogy to PoP.
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 01:37:15 PM »

Maybe on sheer popularity . . . Jak or the Ratchet series?
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 01:48:43 PM »

Quote from: "ATB"
That said, I would chunk the KOTOR series in the greatest trilogies ever, if the third one is made and I play it and it rocks.  But that remains to be seen.

There was Wing Commander (if I recall the 3rd one was the last one before it got so bloated with FMV that it got to be too much).

Where the heck were you ATB when I was pimping the rumors of KOTOR 3? :wink:

You and I definitely have the same taste in games.  The Wing Commander series is my all-time favorite series of games, even ahead of the KOTOR series, which is my second all-time favorite trilogy (yes I said trilogy because my life won't be complete unless there is a KOTOR 3).

Actually, Wing Commander 4:  The Price of Freedom (I think that was the name) was excellent as well and did not overdo it with the FMV.  Malcolm McDowel was excellent as Admiral Tolwyn.  No other series of games has brought out so many emotions in me than the entire Wing Commander series.  Even to this day I can remember so many scenes from my adventures and I still miss so many of those characters like I've lost a family.  I even "retired" my handle I used in those games and never used it again in any game since then.  And the music is so memorable.  I have alot of the original Wing Commander themes on my mp3 player.  Did I just admit that? :shock:
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 03:06:45 PM »

I'm unabashedly drunk in love with Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and equally in absolute hate with Warrior Within. They balance out in my mind, but I've yet to play The Two Thrones and I am anxious to remedy that. Way too many games to play now, but TTT is likely what I'll request for my birthday next month. biggrin

Sands of Time: A+

Warrior Within: D-

TTT: ?
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 03:19:47 PM »

Quote from: "Starshifter"
Actually, Wing Commander 4:  The Price of Freedom (I think that was the name) was excellent as well and did not overdo it with the FMV.  Malcolm McDowel was excellent as Admiral Tolwyn.  No other series of games has brought out so many emotions in me than the entire Wing Commander series.  Even to this day I can remember so many scenes from my adventures and I still miss so many of those characters like I've lost a family.  I even "retired" my handle I used in those games and never used it again in any game since then.  And the music is so memorable.  I have alot of the original Wing Commander themes on my mp3 player.  Did I just admit that? :shock:

Loved the whole series, hated what they did with Hobbes (or was it Hobbs?) back in WC3 (I think - or 4). I had the CE edition of one of those two games, and on the extra CD came the original script. There was a whole reason as to why Hobbes turned 'evil', but it was cut for some reason or another.

Hobbes - best wingman (short of maybe Maniac biggrin ) out there.
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 03:30:58 PM »

Metal Gear Solid trilogy for me.  Otherwise I agree with most everything else mentioned:  Prince of Persia, Wing Commander, and Thief.  Throne of Bhaal was fantastic too but I have a hard time considering it as the third game (vice expansion).
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 03:38:29 PM »

Sure there have been ATB, and its not even close. Other than you and a few others, most thought Warrior Within was an utterly mediocre experiment in the PoP series. I personally dont really care for any of them, although Sands of Time is the highlight of the trilogy. But I mean, really, they are nowhere NEAR the top of the list for the best trilogy, in fact I dont think they are a strong contender:

Baldur's Gate Trilogy (Throne of Bhaal is big enough to count)
Wing Commander 1-3+4
Warcraft 1-3??? Come on man!
Metal Gear Solid
Rachet and Clank-brilliance
Jak and Daxter?
Sly Cooper
and many others.
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2006, 03:39:52 PM »

Hated PoP.

I'd go with R&C
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2006, 04:02:07 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Loved the whole series, hated what they did with Hobbes (or was it Hobbs?) back in WC3 (I think - or 4). I had the CE edition of one of those two games, and on the extra CD came the original script. There was a whole reason as to why Hobbes turned 'evil', but it was cut for some reason or another.

Hobbes - best wingman (short of maybe Maniac biggrin ) out there.

Yes, Hobbes turning completely blindsided me and made it so utterly difficult to battle him.  I didn't want to pull the trigger.  I remember that moment so clearly.  I had Hobbes in my sites.  Saw his ship with his name above it as it moved across my field of vision.  He was badly damaged from our battle.  I actually remembered uttering to myself "I'm sorry my friend" when I pulled the trigger and finished him off.  Hardest thing I ever had to do in gaming.  Completely emotionally draining.
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2006, 04:03:17 PM »

Could you throw in the GTA III trilogy? (Which is what, GTA 3-5, technically?) That's a pretty good set of games.
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2006, 04:13:09 PM »

I don't think words could properly express my love for Wing Commander 3 but, man, I don't know what crackpipe Chris Roberts was smoking when he cut the reason for Hobbes betrayal.
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2006, 04:18:32 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I don't think words could properly express my love for Wing Commander 3 but, man, I don't know what crackpipe Chris Roberts was smoking when he cut the reason for Hobbes betrayal.

Well, it has certainly given us something to talk about and it has clearly left a lasting impression on me.

The FMV intro to Wing Commander 3 was shocking as well.  To avoid spoilers I won't mention it but you guys know what I mean.  The whole thing with Angel?  My jaw slammed to the floor after seeing that and it solidified my undying hatred for the Kilrathi.
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »

I was giddy as a schoolboy when I first saw Wing Commander 3's intro on my computer. It was like watching unscrambled porn for the first time. Of course, I had to wait about 3-5 minutes for the game to load up, but I didn't care.
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2006, 04:45:00 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I don't think words could properly express my love for Wing Commander 3 but, man, I don't know what crackpipe Chris Roberts was smoking when he cut the reason for Hobbes betrayal.


For the life of me I cannot remember what rationale was given, and this was one of my favorite games of all time. Could you type it up in a spoiler tag or something Kevin?
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2006, 04:54:23 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
For the life of me I cannot remember what rationale was given, and this was one of my favorite games of all time. Could you type it up in a spoiler tag or something Kevin?


Heh, no spoiler tag necessary- there was no rationale given!  A scene was filmed but it was cut from the game.  So not only is Hobbes' betrayal out of left field (which is a fine twist) but the reason is never explained (not so fine).

I know I've read what the reason was supposed to be but I've unfortunately forgotten it.  Maybe someone else can help out on that score?
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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2006, 05:06:22 PM »

Possible Spoiler:

Quote
I remember reading somewhere that Hobbes was raised specifically for the purpose of befriending humans and thus infiltrating their society to gain military intelligence.  Then at the right time he was given the order to return.  I always assumed that it was so ingrained in his Kilrathi mind that it was automatic for him to turn on the humans and return to the Kilrathi side.  I was kind of hoping that his friendship with my character would have won out in the end.
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2006, 05:19:07 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
I'm unabashedly drunk in love with Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and equally in absolute hate with Warrior Within. They balance out in my mind, but I've yet to play The Two Thrones and I am anxious to remedy that. Way too many games to play now, but TTT is likely what I'll request for my birthday next month. biggrin

Sands of Time: A+

Warrior Within: D-

TTT: ?


Pretty much exactly my thoughts here so far as I've played in Warrior Within.  At this point, I'm probably going to quit Warrior Within and just play TTT as if WW never existed.

SoT is still, imo, the single best 3d puzzle/action platformer ever made.
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2006, 05:52:31 PM »

Everyone seems to have forgotten Splinter Cell
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2006, 06:04:42 PM »




(note to self - never try to post images from work..
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2006, 06:05:41 PM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
I'm unabashedly drunk in love with Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and equally in absolute hate with Warrior Within. They balance out in my mind, but I've yet to play The Two Thrones and I am anxious to remedy that. Way too many games to play now, but TTT is likely what I'll request for my birthday next month. biggrin

Sands of Time: A+

Warrior Within: D-

TTT: ?


Pretty much exactly my thoughts here so far as I've played in Warrior Within.  At this point, I'm probably going to quit Warrior Within and just play TTT as if WW never existed.

SoT is still, imo, the single best 3d puzzle/action platformer ever made.


Exactly what I did. I actually continued to give WW enough rope to hang itself, then when I got to one point where I couldn't open a door because I didn't have a strong enough sword and had literally nowhere to back track to I yanked it out of my PS2 and traded it in that day. Fucking awful game.
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2006, 06:11:00 PM »

Does the Warcraft series count as a trilogy?

If we're sticking to consoles only, I choose Super Mario Bros.
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2006, 06:28:41 PM »

If we are including PC games, I nominate the Bard's Tale trilogy.
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2006, 06:45:52 PM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Sure there have been ATB, and its not even close. Other than you and a few others, most thought Warrior Within was an utterly mediocre experiment in the PoP series. I personally dont really care for any of them, although Sands of Time is the highlight of the trilogy. But I mean, really, they are nowhere NEAR the top of the list for the best trilogy, in fact I dont think they are a strong contender.
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2006, 09:20:40 PM »

Well, really - any three Zelda games, lol!  

Kidding, but as far as the PoP goes - IMO, you have to be a platform lover to play the game.  I was very disappointed - I played the demo, asked for it for Christmas,  B-day, whatever - and got it.  Couldn't play it past a pretty early point, cz I suck at jumping.   The demo seemed "forgiving' of that, but the game itself was nothing but a pain for me. So I have no knowledge of the other games - the Sands of Time just pissed me off too much to try another.   frown

Other than that - you might be right!  Tongue
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2006, 09:54:01 PM »

All the information you could ever want about Hobbes -

http://www.wcnews.com/encyclopedia/showrecord.php?id=1538

Here's the important part...

Spoiler for Hiden:
On 2669.244, the Victory makes a run for the Delius jump point in the Ariel System. Continuing the Kilrathi’s unusual behaviour around Hobbes, two attacking Vaktoth fighters retreated when Maverick and Hobbes went after them.

Later, Prince Thrakhath broadcasts a recording of Jeannette Devereaux’s execution to the Victory. The transmission contained hidden signals which triggered Ralgha’s true personality. After seeing the broadcast, Hobbes seemed distracted and suffered from a headache.

Hobbes was present at Tolwyn’s briefing on the Behemoth on 2669.245. He saw the weak spots being pointed out – shown so that the Victory’s flight wing could better defend the ship.

Hobbes was invited to work with Admiral Tolwyn’s staff as an expert on the Kilrathi psyche in preparation for the Behemoth test run. He was to explain how the Kilrathi Empire would react to the demonstration at Loki VI and possibly the destruction of Kilrah.

On 2669.247, Ralgha sends schematics of the Behemoth and details of Confed’s planned operations for a stealth fighter to the carrier KIS Sar’hrai. He erases the communication logs after sending the data.

On 2669.260, Ralgha kills Cobra, and flees the Victory in a fighter. Christopher Blair pursues and kills him in combat.

It was later revealed that the Hobbes Maverick knew was a construct, a result of an identity overlay, by order of Prince Thrakhath. The real Ralgha nar Hhallas remained loyal to the Empire. His true personality returned after seeing Thrakhath’s hidden message in the broadcast of Angel’s execution. Until that time, Hobbes was not aware that anything was different about himself.

The real Ralgha nar Hhallas still held all his memories from his time with the Confederation. He still admired Colonel Blair as a warrior and still considered him a friend. Ralgha recorded this in a holo-message he left for Maverick before he returning to the Kilrathi, stating that if they were to meet again, they would both have to fulfil their duties.


...which jibes with my recollection of WC3.  I don't remember any significant part of that being left out in the actual game, though it has been over 10 years since I played it.
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2006, 01:08:17 AM »

Pretty sure the details about the hidden broadcast and the trigger were *not* on the game.
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« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2006, 01:33:03 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Pretty sure the details about the hidden broadcast and the trigger were *not* on the game.

They were absolutely not in the game. One minute he was there, the next he was gone. The minute after that you were killing him for no reason.

That's what pissed me off so much about the game. Really ruined what was otherwise a fantastic game.

Oh, and ATB - sorry for us Wing Commander geeks breaking your thread. biggrin

As for my fave trilogy, I'm gonna have to go weird on this and say Final Fantasy (in addition to the ones talking about Baldur's Gate and other fine RPGs, and of course Wing Commander). Final Fantasy 1, 4, and 6 (the first three US games we saw). Maybe the first three Dragon Warrior games as well...
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« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2006, 01:46:30 AM »

WC1-prophecy
Ultima IV-VIIpt2
Castlevania 2d games
Rainbow 6 1-3
Ghost Recon-2 (three didn't suck me in)
Crimson Skies, HRTR
Might and Magic 3 - World of Xeen
Half-Life, HL2
Warcraft 1,2,3
Monkey Islands.
Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2006, 02:26:13 AM »

Quote from: "Purge"
WC1-prophecy
Ultima IV-VIIpt2
Castlevania 2d games
Rainbow 6 1-3
Ghost Recon-2 (three didn't suck me in)
Crimson Skies, HRTR
Might and Magic 3 - World of Xeen
Half-Life, HL2
Warcraft 1,2,3
Monkey Islands.
Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2

Yeah, really anything other than Prince of Persia.

Indeed I'd say PoP is a very mediocre trilogy.  Dunno what kind of crack you were smoking, ATB.
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2006, 02:42:23 AM »

Quote from: "Laner"
All the information you could ever want about Hobbes -


Awesome laner, thanks a lot, thats great info! The parts about the trigger and psych overlay were DEFINATELY not in the game, and this filled in the blanks.

Am I the only one that would gladly play an updated version of all of these games, or even versions that worked in XP? Shit, I would probably just settle for watching all the cinematics in order again.
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2006, 03:53:15 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Am I the only one that would gladly play an updated version of all of these games, or even versions that worked in XP? Shit, I would probably just settle for watching all the cinematics in order again.


Yeah the Privateer update released earlier this year just made me realize how much more I would prefer updates to WC3 & 4.  Not sure how feasible it is with integrating the FMV though.  

Don't really care to replay them as-is though.  I tried to replay WC4 a few years ago and I found it unplayable.  Propecy level graphics would be fine by me though.
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2006, 05:56:55 AM »

Quote from: "Calvin"
Am I the only one that would gladly play an updated version of all of these games, or even versions that worked in XP? Shit, I would probably just settle for watching all the cinematics in order again.

A few years back ('96) they did release a WC1 through WC3 combo pack for Win95. It was called Wing Commander: The Kilrathi Saga. Unfortunately, due to a very limited print run, odds are you won't find this anywhere short of eBay (and for way too much money).

To the best of my knowledge (as I don't have it), it works perfectly on WinXP. Visit Gamespot for a refresher on how this game looked back on your 286 and 386 PCs. biggrin
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2006, 03:38:19 PM »

I think you could make a pretty strong case about Sands of Time being one of the greatest games of all time, but all three games taken as a whole? No. The second game, while it had some truly spectacular platforming sequences and environmental puzzles, failed to capture the spirit of the franchise. The third game is much better than the second, but its low difficulty level hurts it and it kind of peters out at the end.

Still, all three games are well worth playing, especialy if you're a platforming fan.
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2006, 07:02:44 PM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "Calvin"
Am I the only one that would gladly play an updated version of all of these games, or even versions that worked in XP? Shit, I would probably just settle for watching all the cinematics in order again.

A few years back ('96) they did release a WC1 through WC3 combo pack for Win95. It was called Wing Commander: The Kilrathi Saga. Unfortunately, due to a very limited print run, odds are you won't find this anywhere short of eBay (and for way too much money).

To the best of my knowledge (as I don't have it), it works perfectly on WinXP. Visit Gamespot for a refresher on how this game looked back on your 286 and 386 PCs. biggrin


Yeah, i would need updated graphics to enjoy them. The privateer remake showed me that one of my favorite games of all time was just not playable to me anymore given how it looked and played-an engine upgrade would be necessary.
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