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Author Topic: Half Life 2: Episode 3.... Skipped for Half-Life 3?  (Read 7431 times)
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« on: October 14, 2008, 02:57:33 PM »

Doug Lombardi finally mentions something about Episode 3, but only after a bunch of Left 4 Dead info.  it's on page 3, but it's a kicker:

Quote
Yeah, the next time you play as Gordon will be longer than the distance between HL2 to Ep1, and Ep1 to Ep2.

weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?  between HL2 to Ep1 was about a year and a half, and betwee Ep1 to Ep2 was another year and change, so it sounds like we'll be waiting at least 2 years...
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 03:15:44 PM »

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weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?
Considering it was 6 years between HL1 and HL2, 2 years doesn't seem nearly as huge, comparatively speaking.
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 03:37:13 PM »

This would have been so cool if they did it every year and not the huge gaps they are doing.
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 03:37:45 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 14, 2008, 02:57:33 PM

Doug Lombardi finally mentions something about Episode 3, but only after a bunch of Left 4 Dead info.  it's on page 3, but it's a kicker:

Quote
Yeah, the next time you play as Gordon will be longer than the distance between HL2 to Ep1, and Ep1 to Ep2.

weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?  between HL2 to Ep1 was about a year and a half, and betwee Ep1 to Ep2 was another year and change, so it sounds like we'll be waiting at least 2 years...

While I love the Hl series and will play Ep3 on day 1 the whole episodic thing has long since been a complete bust from what Valve talked about years ago when they started this. But not much we can do about it but wait.
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 05:21:45 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on October 14, 2008, 03:37:45 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 14, 2008, 02:57:33 PM

Doug Lombardi finally mentions something about Episode 3, but only after a bunch of Left 4 Dead info.  it's on page 3, but it's a kicker:

Quote
Yeah, the next time you play as Gordon will be longer than the distance between HL2 to Ep1, and Ep1 to Ep2.

weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?  between HL2 to Ep1 was about a year and a half, and betwee Ep1 to Ep2 was another year and change, so it sounds like we'll be waiting at least 2 years...

While I love the Hl series and will play Ep3 on day 1 the whole episodic thing has long since been a complete bust from what Valve talked about years ago when they started this. But not much we can do about it but wait.

Agreed. Valve and Blizzard have taken advantage of the episodic model by using it as an excuse to release a severely shortened game initially because they couldn't finish on time, and then release each "episode" with huge gaps inbetween.
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 05:49:52 PM »

Yeah 2010 is quite a bummer. I wonder what in the world takes them so long. They have the engine. They must have the over all story arc if not the script. So you have to buld and polish levels. granted when released these games are pretty ideal. Oh well, we have other stuff to play in the meantime.
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 06:21:32 PM »

Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed at how they've handled it.  Particularly that they have been so vague about the obvious fact that they abandoned the "quick expansions" model almost as soon as they announced it.  If the delay results in something meatier and significantly improved in some way, then it will make sense.  If episode three is just the wrap-up of the current story in short episodic form with current tech, it will be a disappointment.   

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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 06:25:34 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 14, 2008, 02:57:33 PM

Doug Lombardi finally mentions something about Episode 3, but only after a bunch of Left 4 Dead info.  it's on page 3, but it's a kicker:

Quote
Yeah, the next time you play as Gordon will be longer than the distance between HL2 to Ep1, and Ep1 to Ep2.

weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?  between HL2 to Ep1 was about a year and a half, and betwee Ep1 to Ep2 was another year and change, so it sounds like we'll be waiting at least 2 years...

Depends on the reference point- is it two years in between releases (and we're now a year on from Ep 2 meaning we might see Ep 3 this time next year) or is it two years from now?
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 07:06:27 PM »

You know, the other interpretation of that statement by Lombardi might be that you don't play Gordon in Episode 3. . .  icon_eek

I don't know if that's likely, just a thought.

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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 08:37:25 PM »

From listening to the commentary in Episode 1, you can tell they go over every element of the game many times over.  It's seems like they're overly perfectionist though.  There comes a point when you're not going to improve the game enough to justify the extra development time.
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 08:54:43 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 14, 2008, 06:25:34 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 14, 2008, 02:57:33 PM

Doug Lombardi finally mentions something about Episode 3, but only after a bunch of Left 4 Dead info.  it's on page 3, but it's a kicker:

Quote
Yeah, the next time you play as Gordon will be longer than the distance between HL2 to Ep1, and Ep1 to Ep2.

weren't they putting out the episodes so they wouldn't have huge gaps between games?  between HL2 to Ep1 was about a year and a half, and betwee Ep1 to Ep2 was another year and change, so it sounds like we'll be waiting at least 2 years...

Depends on the reference point- is it two years in between releases (and we're now a year on from Ep 2 meaning we might see Ep 3 this time next year) or is it two years from now?

the way he states it I'm thinking the reference point is at the time of the interview.
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 09:22:22 PM »

Quote from: EddieA on October 14, 2008, 08:37:25 PM

From listening to the commentary in Episode 1, you can tell they go over every element of the game many times over.  It's seems like they're overly perfectionist though.  There comes a point when you're not going to improve the game enough to justify the extra development time.

Wish someone at 3drealms would realise that.

Hope they at least upgrade the engine a bit. The Source engine still looks ok, but not in 2 years.
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 10:46:16 PM »

Quote from: Pong on October 14, 2008, 09:22:22 PM

Hope they at least upgrade the engine a bit. The Source engine still looks ok, but not in 2 years.


They've been upgrading as they go along (there were some technical improvements in both Eps 1&2) and I expect that we'll see more in Episode 3 though Valve may "low common denominator" things a bit just to keep it fair to people who can already run Eps 1&2. 
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2008, 12:41:14 AM »

Wow, I can't believe all the criticism here. Sure, they take a hell of a long time to finish their products, but their products are far superior to everything else on the market. Not only are their games better than everyone else's, they're a better value - could you name a better box of games than the Orange Box? Hell I'm still playing TF2 nearly every night. And it's free! What's more, Valve is essentially the last remaining big time PC developer. They haven't sold their souls to the console for the free money that comes from inferior games.

In my book, Valve gets cut a huge bit of slack so long as they keep up the quality.
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2008, 01:14:34 AM »

Fuck. That. Noise.
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2008, 01:19:26 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 15, 2008, 12:41:14 AM

In my book, Valve gets cut a huge bit of slack so long as they keep up the quality.

That, and also because Left 4 Dead is a very, VERY satisfying substitute for me to help keep me patient for a long time. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2008, 02:35:50 PM »

maybe they're trying to figure a way to get Portal tech to work properly with the AI.  sure, it worked great in Portal, but there weren't any enemies that moved around like there would be in a HL episode.
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2008, 03:04:08 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 15, 2008, 02:35:50 PM

maybe they're trying to figure a way to get Portal tech to work properly with the AI.  sure, it worked great in Portal, but there weren't any enemies that moved around like there would be in a HL episode.
Doubt that's much of a problem as they had the turrets in Portal shooting at you through the portals easily enough.
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 12:33:49 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 15, 2008, 12:41:14 AM

Wow, I can't believe all the criticism here. Sure, they take a hell of a long time to finish their products, but their products are far superior to everything else on the market. Not only are their games better than everyone else's, they're a better value - could you name a better box of games than the Orange Box? Hell I'm still playing TF2 nearly every night. And it's free! What's more, Valve is essentially the last remaining big time PC developer. They haven't sold their souls to the console for the free money that comes from inferior games.

In my book, Valve gets cut a huge bit of slack so long as they keep up the quality.

Everyone keeps relating this to consumer cost, fuck the value aspect and the pricing and all that, I hated how I was forced to wade through a "box of games" to play the one game I wanted. We're talking about the HL episodes, not TF2 and not Portal which I'm sorry but are in my opinion far from the best shooters on the market. And so what if they are the last remaining big time PC developer, whatever that even means, the whole point of episodic content was to streamline the influx of product to do away with needing to wait 4-5 years between sequels. Companies are raping this model and using it as a scapegoat to release an unfinished game or tack on additional shit and jack up the price.

If you want to use an episodic release model, fine, but do it right and don't use it to cover up profit schemes.
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 01:38:41 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 16, 2008, 12:33:49 AM

I hated how I was forced to wade through a "box of games" to play the one game I wanted.

Can't remember if it was available day one, but Episode 2 has been available standalone for quite a long time now. 
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 01:42:53 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 16, 2008, 01:38:41 AM

Quote from: Ridah on October 16, 2008, 12:33:49 AM

I hated how I was forced to wade through a "box of games" to play the one game I wanted.

Can't remember if it was available day one, but Episode 2 has been available standalone for quite a long time now. 

It was available day one, but for something stupid like $30.  The other stuff in the box wasn't sold seperately on Steam until later.  It was a clear marketing choice to push people to buy the box either in store or as a package on Steam.

I agree that it was an unnecessarily crappy move on Valve's part.  They got away with it because Portal turned out to be very good, as did TF2, so it quieted the otherwise disgruntled buyers.  If one or both had been sub-par, overall reaction to the box would have been much more negative. 


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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 01:50:33 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on October 16, 2008, 01:42:53 AM

I agree that it was an unnecessarily crappy move on Valve's part.  They got away with it because Portal turned out to be very good, as did TF2, so it quieted the otherwise disgruntled buyers.  If one or both had been sub-par, overall reaction to the box would have been much more negative. 

Um, duh?  That's like saying "Well, Infinity Ward got away with charging $60 for CoD4 because the single player and multilayer turned out to be very good, so it quieted the otherwise disgruntled buyers.  But if one or the other had been subpar, overall reaction to the box would have been much more negative." 
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 02:52:14 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 16, 2008, 01:50:33 AM

Quote from: Sarkus on October 16, 2008, 01:42:53 AM

I agree that it was an unnecessarily crappy move on Valve's part.  They got away with it because Portal turned out to be very good, as did TF2, so it quieted the otherwise disgruntled buyers.  If one or both had been sub-par, overall reaction to the box would have been much more negative. 

Um, duh?  That's like saying "Well, Infinity Ward got away with charging $60 for CoD4 because the single player and multilayer turned out to be very good, so it quieted the otherwise disgruntled buyers.  But if one or the other had been subpar, overall reaction to the box would have been much more negative." 

No it isn't.  Portal and TF2 have nothing to do with HL2 besides their use of the same engine.  To use your CoD4 example, what would you have said if CoD4 came out with two unrelated games in the box and cost $80? 

The Orange box was forced bundling plain and simple.

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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 03:41:56 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on October 16, 2008, 02:52:14 AM

No it isn't.  Portal and TF2 have nothing to do with HL2 besides their use of the same engine.  To use your CoD4 example, what would you have said if CoD4 came out with two unrelated games in the box and cost $80? 

The Orange box was forced bundling plain and simple.

Can't really agree.  Most MP games are different enough than the single player that it's pretty much different games anyway.  Should I demand that Epic offer a cheaper version of Gears 2 that chops off the multiplayer since I only want single player?  Or should MS have offered Halo 3 as a cheaper multiplayer only download for those with no interest in single player? 

And Portal at least ties into the main HL story arc as well.

And the $80 thing is a complete strawman.  Orange Box was $60 (at least on 360, can't recall what it cost on PC) and had at least comparable content to just about any other normal game (7 hours of single player minimum between Ep 2 and Portal plus a complete multiplayer game in TF2), even disregarding the inclusion of HL2 and Episode 1.  Yeah, the $30 standalone price was $10 more than Episode 1 was, but Episode 2 was also longer than Episode 1. 

Really, complaining about Orange Box is just complete sour grapes.  Valve offered tremendous value in the Orange Box itself and still allowed a way to get Episode 2 a la carte for those who may only have been interested in that after playing HL2 and Ep 1. 
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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 03:48:03 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 16, 2008, 12:33:49 AM

Everyone keeps relating this to consumer cost, fuck the value aspect and the pricing and all that, I hated how I was forced to wade through a "box of games" to play the one game I wanted.
Er, how did you have to wade through a box of games? You just open up Steam and launch whatever game you wanted to play. Hell if you used the convenient Steam service to download the games, you didn't even have to download any of those other games.
Quote
We're talking about the HL episodes, not TF2 and not Portal which I'm sorry but are in my opinion far from the best shooters on the market.
Well there may be an argument for Counter-Strike, but that's a Valve game too.
Quote
And so what if they are the last remaining big time PC developer, whatever that even means
What that means is that when a game company moves its focus from the PC to the console, the quality goes down down down. Look at the difference between Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2.
Quote
the whole point of episodic content was to streamline the influx of product to do away with needing to wait 4-5 years between sequels.
And we don't have to wait 4-5 years. Just a couple of years, for this one anyways.
Quote
Companies are raping this model and using it as a scapegoat to release an unfinished game or tack on additional shit and jack up the price. If you want to use an episodic release model, fine, but do it right and don't use it to cover up profit schemes.
Thought you didn't care about value. And Episode 1 and 2 were both finished games.
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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2008, 12:03:46 AM »

I don't recall Episode 2 being released as a standalone product, at least on the consoles. All I remember is paying $60 or whatever the price was for Orange Box and only playing Episode 2 because, well, that's the only game I wanted to play.

When I say I don't care about value, I mean it in a monetary sense whereas I can afford and am willing to pay full price for a short game, so long as the content is worthwhile. The Max Payne games are excellent examples, I don't think either one took more than 5-6 hours for me to complete but I loved them so much it was worth the cost of admission.

My opinion regarding Blizzard and Valve is that Starcraft 2 should be released in 2010 or 2011 when all the campaigns are complete, and Valve should have scrapped the Episodes 1-3 deal and made us wait 4-5 years for HL3.
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« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 01:34:20 AM »

Interesting topic.  I literally just finished Episode 2 a couple of days ago and was wondering when Episode 3 would be out.  Oh well, there is plenty in the pipeline these days to keep me occupied for another 18 months.
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« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 01:35:44 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 17, 2008, 12:03:46 AM

I don't recall Episode 2 being released as a standalone product, at least on the consoles. All I remember is paying $60 or whatever the price was for Orange Box and only playing Episode 2 because, well, that's the only game I wanted to play.

On the consoles Episode 2 wasn't standalone but that strikes me as entirely fair that Episode 1 never saw console release and the Xbox 1 port of HL2 wasn't very good.  So there is far less motive to keep the faith than what Valve had with PC gamers who had been buying each installment.  If your PC could run HL2 or Episode 1 then your PC should have been able to handle Episode 2.  
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 10:56:12 PM »

Don't worry about the long wait cuz you'll have DNF to play in the meantime.
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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2008, 05:54:56 PM »

Quote from: PaulBot on October 22, 2008, 10:56:12 PM

Don't worry about the long wait cuz you'll have DNF to play in the meantime.

It's funny because I'm actually still excited for DNF, Duke Nukem 3D remains one of my fondest gaming memories.
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« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2008, 05:19:27 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on October 14, 2008, 07:06:27 PM

You know, the other interpretation of that statement by Lombardi might be that you don't play Gordon in Episode 3. . .  icon_eek

I don't know if that's likely, just a thought.

That was actually the first thing that came to my mind.
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 05:26:38 PM »

no Half Life games in 2010?  I'm really hoping they just misquoted the guy.
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 07:52:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 19, 2010, 05:26:38 PM

no Half Life games in 2010?  I'm really hoping they just misquoted the guy.

Maybe they decided to drop the episode concept considering it was taking so much time to develop that they decided to turn Episode 3 into HL3. That's my theory as to why it's taking so long.
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 08:06:54 PM »

Quote from: Rumpy on January 19, 2010, 07:52:59 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 19, 2010, 05:26:38 PM

no Half Life games in 2010?  I'm really hoping they just misquoted the guy.

Maybe they decided to drop the episode concept considering it was taking so much time to develop that they decided to turn Episode 3 into HL3. That's my theory as to why it's taking so long.

About time. I consider the Half Life episodes to be the single greatest failure in episodic gaming so far. Yes, greater than even Sin Episodes. It's better to try and fail than to try and fail, then fail again for the exact same reasons. (I'm not talking about the quality of the episodes here, but merely the failure of providing the concept of episodic gaming in a satisfying form)

Valve didn't understand their own limitations, or this was all a case of the left hand having no clue what the right hand was doing.
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 08:08:02 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 19, 2010, 05:26:38 PM

no Half Life games in 2010?  I'm really hoping they just misquoted the guy.

boo this man!
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« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 08:14:00 PM »

Valve is officially stupid and their Episodic system is total BS.  I would have rather had HL3 than this looooooooooooooooooooong drawn out BS.
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« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 08:34:32 PM »

Valve is the world's leading cause of blue balls, imo.
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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2010, 12:14:24 AM »

Eh, it just gives some 2010 games an opportunity to shine rather than being overshadowed by the next half-life game.
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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2010, 04:43:49 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on January 19, 2010, 08:14:00 PM

Valve is officially stupid and their Episodic system is total BS.  I would have rather had HL3 than this looooooooooooooooooooong drawn out BS.

In total agreement here, if you're going to release episodic content limit the gap between releases to 6 months.
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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2010, 05:09:16 AM »

Eh, no use getting mad at them. They're going to release what they want when they want, and everything they've released so far has been awesome. They're one of the few actual PC developers still out there, so they get a pass from me. Whenever they release whatever they're going to release, I'll be buying it, so it does me no good to complain about their scheduling.
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