H-Gate London Demo.....Can we talk?

[Knightshade Dragon]

I took some screenshots with the print screen key. My game lagged as if it was saving the pics each time but I cant find where any were saved

I'm not at home so I can't check, but did you look in your "My Documents" folder?  I'm guessing that may be part of adhering to the Games for Windows platform. 

Adhering to the GfW platform = Windows putting stuff God knows where, and generally in no place you can usually find it.

FRAPS ftw

[Knightshade Dragon]

By the way - read this on the advertising stuff:

EULA Explanation
We just made some big announcements about Hellgate: London, and it’s been great to see all of the excited comments regarding what we have in store for our players on day one and onward. On the flip side, we’ve also heard grumblings about the EULA that went out with our DX9 single-player demo.

We want to make something very clear. We are in no way scanning your computers for your personal information or taking any personal information without your knowledge. The only time that Flagship or Ping0 would collect your personally identifiable information is when you actually decide to give it to us. Examples are when you create an account for Hellgate: London online or when you provide us your personal information when you enter a contest. The language in the portion of the EULA that has been cited is actually fairly standardized language that is used in the vast majority of EULAs for recent on-line software. It was unfortunately also somewhat broad in scope and potentially ambiguous in nature in an attempt to keep the legalese at a minimum.


This catch-all statement was included so that we have the ability to determine if someone is using hacks, unauthorized mods or other abusive applications while playing the game which spoils the gameplay for everyone else. We also use this catch-all to protect other parties offering technical support, such as our online provider, Ping0. This is a completely legitimate function and other leaders in the MMO space do it in an effort to stop hackers and provide better technical support. In order to stop hacks and cheats, as well as attempts at outright fraud, we may need the ability to scan our player’s computers for applications running at the same time as our game. This paragraph was designed to be able to allow for such functionality. It is also important to point out that EA does not determine what we do in regards to online and offline for our game security.


Also, this has nothing specifically to do with advertisements. EA has nothing do with Massive or potential ad-serving in Hellgate: London. First and foremost, any in-game advertising that would be in Hellgate: London is there to simulate how London looks in the real-world. Ads that represent this have been in the entirety of the beta, and in fact, have been shown in the game for well over a year. The fact is that we did not agree to potentially have ads in the game just to make more money. If we did not work with Massive, we would have to get individual approvals from every single company that we want to feature in the Underground stations. This is simply too time consuming and it’s much better to have the experts to do it, allowing us time to focus on making Hellgate: London better and better while getting a realistic portrayal of London in the process.


Should we elect to serve ads, they must be approved by us, Flagship Studios. We would demand that they be in-context with the game world - aged, weathered, only shown in appropriate areas, just as the static posters you see in the Stations are now. We have no interest in putting giant, bright-white billboard in the middle of your battles or having you wield swords of Brand X Cola.


Finally, Hellgate: London and all of the online play and components are controlled by Flagship Studios and Ping0. We’re all gamers here, and we’re as sensitive to protecting our personal information as you are. This is why we have spent the past six months becoming a member of the ESRB Privacy Online certification program. This means that we’re meeting the most rigorous standards in the industry for protecting your privacy and the information that you provide us.


We hope this helps address the concerns of our community.


See you online!

[Destructor]

People aren't worried or pissed, heck no.

 

[USMC Kato]

Created a summoner today and tried it out; talk about easy mode.  I have up to four fire elementals runnng around at one time now with the hive gun I picked up nothing lasts long.

yeah, tonight I tried a summoner as well.  I think I see some nerfs coming done the line....

I would think some more balancing is coming, as it is right now with my Engineer (LVL 11) I rarely have to participate in any of the battles 

[Daehawk]

I took some screenshots with the print screen key. My game lagged as if it was saving the pics each time but I cant find where any were saved

I'm not at home so I can't check, but did you look in your "My Documents" folder?  I'm guessing that may be part of adhering to the Games for Windows platform. 

Ya looked there  but did'nt see anything.

[Hotfreak]

Created a summoner today and tried it out; talk about easy mode.  I have up to four fire elementals runnng around at one time now with the hive gun I picked up nothing lasts long.

yeah, tonight I tried a summoner as well.  I think I see some nerfs coming done the line....

I would think some more balancing is coming, as it is right now with my Engineer (LVL 11) I rarely have to participate in any of the battles 

Or perhaps they'll just go with the Titan Quest model of letting the "Normal" setting be an easy plow through and then ratcheting up the challenge for subsequent difficulty levels.

[Blackjack]

The new PC Gamer just hitting shelves now (saw it at Borders yesterday) has a review of Hellgate (pre-release reviews make me suspicious -- how do you judge the online multiplayer when it hasn't even released?  but it seems like everyone is doing this now, whether in print or online).

I didn't get it cause I couldn't find a "solo" edition (sans the generally useless cover disc), but I assume they wouldn't devote the entire cover to it if they didn't like it in some way.

[Moatman]

I tried the beta very briefly(friend at gamestop got me a code) and I just wasn't impressed with the bit I did play, seemed very generic and didn't draw me in.  Maybe this will be one of those games that you need to play in multi to fully enjoy, which makes sense with all the emphasis they've put on online and the pay-service.

Checking the gamefaqs forum, someone posted that it got an 8.9 score, with the end bit being:

Highs:

Fresh Setting, succeeds at delivering roleplaying action that's varied, challenging and addictive

Lows:

Tilesets get repetitive, skeletal plot, value of subscription service remains to be seen

Bottom Line:

A Fantastic single and cooperative multiplayer action RPG that has the seeds of a promising MMO.

[Zarkon]

Well, I was going to cancel my CE, but waited a day or two too long, so I've got a CE and the dye kit coming.  Haven't decided if I'm going to keep it yet or not. 

[Blackjack]

The repetitive tilesets worry me. Not that most would play this game "for scenery," but even Diablo had its four unique-from-each environment tilesets. If this is going to be endless mud-brown square rooms and endless mud-brown ruined London streets (I'm reminded a bit of F.E.A.R's endless glum warehouse interiors and exteriors), it doth concern me. 

As far as "skeletal plots" go, that's never been a Blizzard North specialty ("I'm the Lord of All Evil, You All Must Die!" "I've killed the Lord of All Evil so I'm going to stick this crystal in my skull! Aaaa!" etc.), so I didn't expect Hellgate to be Citizen Kane ("Hellgate's the sled!"). Perhaps they should've raided Blizzard for one of Starcraft's "storyline plotters." 

[EngineNo9]

Hellgate is in the Circuit City weekly ad for $39.99 this week (collector's is still $59.99).  So go to Best Buy or Walmart and just price match because you know CC won't actually have them. 

[CeeKay]

Well, I was going to cancel my CE, but waited a day or two too long, so I've got a CE and the dye kit coming.  Haven't decided if I'm going to keep it yet or not. 

you know you want to keep it.  all the cool kids are.

[Zarkon]

Screw the cool kids.  The game ran like ass on my system, and there was no reason for it, other than 'I run Vista'.  OF course, I'm annoyed at EB for not letting me cancel the order on Saturday, when 'it's in processing', considering the game isn't out until Tuesday. :p

[Lockdown]

Are there lots of skills in HG:London?  Are there skill trees like in Mythos?  If so, can you focus on just being really good at a few things, or generalize?

I am really, really letting my love for Mythos effect my judgement on London, even though I STILL haven't gotten the demo to download correctly.

[Hotfreak]

Are there lots of skills in HG:London?  Are there skill trees like in Mythos?  If so, can you focus on just being really good at a few things, or generalize?

I am really, really letting my love for Mythos effect my judgement on London, even though I STILL haven't gotten the demo to download correctly.

Unfortunately, the demo is weak and won't answer many of your questions.

The skills are all in one main "tree" for each class, but individual branches abound as well as solitary skills with no prior skill dependencies (just level reqs).  In addition, each skill has ranks that you can climb.  Mythos has the 3 Trees but not a lot of variety within each tree.  Hellgate packs a variety of playstyles into just one tree.  So, less skills, but similar spread in the tactical possibility space.

You can definitely focus on a few things and be really good at them.  You can also spread your points around and become a generalist of sorts, but as in most rpgs, I don't see this as being the most effective strategy.  That said, there are some "must haves" for each class and a few "just one point in that is essential but enough" kinds of scenarios.

I get the feeling from playing with the classes and checking out different builds and such, that there are clearly different areas to focus on for solo play vs. group play vs. PvP.  The fact that there is no facility for "re-specing" could make this problematic for someone looking to explore all aspects of the gameplay/content without significant time investment.  ("Yeah, Bob, I just got my 3rd Blademaster to 50 for PvP", e.g.)

[Lockdown]

Thanks for the info, Hotfreak.  Very helpful.

(There isn't a picture of a skilltree example floating out there somewhere, is there?)

[Knightshade Dragon]

Thanks for the info, Hotfreak.  Very helpful.

(There isn't a picture of a skilltree example floating out there somewhere, is there?)

It won't knock your socks off at this resolution, but here ya go:



More than that though, you can spec out with this online..thingy.

http://hellgate.ingame.de/skilltree/blademaster/?lang=en

Should answer most of your questions I'd think.

[Lockdown]

Thanks, Ron!

You're the man.

[Hotfreak]

More than that though, you can spec out with this online..thingy.

http://hellgate.ingame.de/skilltree/blademaster/?lang=en

Should answer most of your questions I'd think.

Yeah, although the trees are a bit outdated, I think, this calculator should give you the basic skinny.  Forgot about this one.

[Destructor]

Screw the cool kids.  The game ran like ass on my system, and there was no reason for it, other than 'I run Vista'.  OF course, I'm annoyed at EB for not letting me cancel the order on Saturday, when 'it's in processing', considering the game isn't out until Tuesday. :p

You were running it in DX10 mode, weren't you? As of when I stopped playing the beta, it ran like ABSOLUTE ASS on my relatively powerful machine. When I flipped it to DX9 mode, I had impressive frame rates.

[CeeKay]

Screw the cool kids.  The game ran like ass on my system, and there was no reason for it, other than 'I run Vista'.  OF course, I'm annoyed at EB for not letting me cancel the order on Saturday, when 'it's in processing', considering the game isn't out until Tuesday. :p

You were running it in DX10 mode, weren't you? As of when I stopped playing the beta, it ran like ABSOLUTE ASS on my relatively powerful machine. When I flipped it to DX9 mode, I had impressive frame rates.

doesn't DX10 only change the way smoke is rendered anyways?  I used DX10 mode in the beta and it ran pretty smoothly for as far as I got (the first Hellgate boss where you find the Doctor).  My specs are Vista Home Premium, Core 2 Duo 2.13Ghz, 2 gigs of Ram, nVidia 8800GTX w/768 megs of RAM.  when I get the game this week I'll have to run FRAPS to see what I get for FPS.

[Farscry]

Anybody know when the game goes live this week? They stated they'd reopen the servers possibly before retail hits the streets for preorder beta testers to start playing their real accounts and create characters (to reserve favorite names, for example), though you won't be able to progress past the beta cap until you actually get your retail game.

[Arkon]

Anybody know when the game goes live this week? They stated they'd reopen the servers possibly before retail hits the streets for preorder beta testers to start playing their real accounts and create characters (to reserve favorite names, for example), though you won't be able to progress past the beta cap until you actually get your retail game.

No clue but I am hoping it is soon.

[Blackjack]

Shacknews has a Bill Roper interview up with lots of new details on the "tweak patch" at launch and major update #1 due in December:

Flagship's Roper on Hellgate: London's Future (but... it doesn't even exist yet! What a conundrum...)
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=649

And some things to salve some complaints here (including from me  ):

I shared with Roper one of the chief criticisms of Hellgate: London's beta phase, the overly repetitive nature of the environments. He was aware of the concerns, and in fact had a rebuttal to those holding them. "We have as many, if not a few more, locations than in Diablo II," he said, but pointed out that they are not separated in the same hard-edged "act" structure of that game. He also noted that beta players have still yet to see the fourth and fifth acts, present in the shipping game but not the beta, which he describes as wildly different from the first three.

Still, in an attempt to ameliorate those complaints, Flagship has readjusted the environment flow, grouping environments more according to their theme, and hopefully providing an experience that feels better separated into discrete acts. This tweak will be enabled once Patch 0 goes live and the game is officially launched.

So, at the very least, the game at launch should "feel" more varied than the tedious demo/beta, in theory.

The rest of the piece is promising enough, but I can't help thinking this is one of many games I've tried or read about this year (Tabula Rasa, and the canceled Gods & Heroes to some extent) that could benefit from a longer beta period -- not forever, but if they're going to go so far as to alter the entire structure of "acts" and consider major changes to determining stats, wouldn't they want to do that in beta instead of throwing it at an impatient retail audience? Oh well, if I was some genius I wouldn't be tossing around hypothetical questions on message boards, would I? Oh, I did it again. 

[CeeKay]

Anybody know when the game goes live this week? They stated they'd reopen the servers possibly before retail hits the streets for preorder beta testers to start playing their real accounts and create characters (to reserve favorite names, for example), though you won't be able to progress past the beta cap until you actually get your retail game.

No clue but I am hoping it is soon.

hmm, went to check the forum:

Thank you for your participation in Hellgate: London beta. At this time the servers and forums are closed until our Halloween Launch.

Since the launch is Wednesday I'm not holding my breath on getting the head start like they said.  I also have a feeling that I won't be playing on launch day 

[Blackjack]

Gamespy has its impressions piece up:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/hellgate-london/831587p1.html

They like it to some extent, but seem pretty skeptical about the game's long term fun factor. I'm still pretty sure I'll get it -- but they're going to have to "show me the money" before I (well, I'm sure most folks) give even a modest monthly fee serious consideration. And it just sounds like major concepts in the game (randomized loot for one) just aren't proving as fun in practice as they maybe sounded in theory. My advice, is go find out where Stieg Hedlund (Diablo II lead designer) is crying over his beer about Gods & Heroes' demise and at least hire him as a consultant. Maybe the reason the game isn't shaping up like Diablo II is because it's missing a few key people from that team. Oh, it's oversimplifying but that's what all us back-seat game developers gab about.

[VynlSol]

One thing I noticed this evening: playing on Shulgoth the npc's dialogue seems significantly reigned-in. No more, "12 galaxies, all coming at me!".

But in the single player, the npc's behave just like the beta version, dialogue-wise.

[Arkon]

Got my Engineer up to lvl 6 last night, name is Arkon, go figure.  Anyways I noticed that while the early tilesets where "the same", there was much more variety in them with rooms with equipment in them I had never seen, and the sewers had a completely new layout with a spiral staircase down the center that I had not seen in beta.

[CeeKay]

did it seem to anyone else that the load times are a bit longer now?  I didn't play much, just jumped on to grab the names I wanted and get my characters to the first station but it seemed like the initial load and the load for the station took longer.  other than that my DX10 performance was great.

[Arkon]

did it seem to anyone else that the load times are a bit longer now?  I didn't play much, just jumped on to grab the names I wanted and get my characters to the first station but it seemed like the initial load and the load for the station took longer.  other than that my DX10 performance was great.

Not for me but I am running DX9

[Destructor]

The load times aren't too bad, but I've already had the game crash on me twice in Vista (after about 30-40 minutes of play each time). I'm not using the final 'game' (just fired up the account that had the Gamestop preorder info in it and started to play), but I doubt a problem that serious won't be fixed by using the 'real' install DVD.