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Author Topic: GTA: SA Impressions  (Read 23898 times)
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whiteboyskim
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« on: October 25, 2004, 03:37:25 PM »

Alright campers, those of you who may get it today, first of all you suck, secondly you know you want to brag about it. Post 'em when you got 'em. smile
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2004, 04:00:18 PM »

I'm trying my hardest to stay away from this game.  I'm just not as pumped about it as GTA3 or GTA: Vice City.  The 90s, gangs and the fact that you play a black guy (not that there's anything wrong with that by the way and is pretty revolutionary if you think about it) kind of takes the feeling of "I am playing this character, he's an extension of myself" that you had in GTA3 and (somewhat) in Vice City and throws it in the trash in my opinion.

I have no doubt this game is bigger than Vice City in size, but I'm not sure the gameplay will be better...just a feeling I get.  I will probably rent this game this weekend and may pick up the Xbox version when it comes out, but I'm really trying to hold off on picking this game up.

The ads that have been pounding me on television haven't made me any more excited either...which is a big change of pace from when Vice City came out.
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2004, 04:09:26 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
I'm trying my hardest to stay away from this game.  I'm just not as pumped about it as GTA3 or GTA: Vice City.  The 90s, gangs and the fact that you play a black guy...

RACIST!

 :wink:
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2004, 04:21:08 PM »

Quote
I'm trying my hardest to stay away from this game. I'm just not as pumped about it as GTA3 or GTA: Vice City. The 90s, gangs and the fact that you play a black guy (not that there's anything wrong with that by the way and is pretty revolutionary if you think about it) kind of takes the feeling of "I am playing this character, he's an extension of myself" that you had in GTA3 and (somewhat) in Vice City and throws it in the trash in my opinion.


How does being a gangster in the 80s (VC) or ganster in modern day (GTA3) feel like more of an extension of yourself?  Is there something you're not telling us :wink:

You do have a good point about the Urban milieu of SA though and I'm interested to see what ramifactions it has on its success if any

Initially I wasn't as interested for many of the same reasons (I respect Boyz in the Hood and Menace II Society more than I like them) but from reading the latest previews it sounds like the scale of the game goes way beyond that and seems much more accessible.
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2004, 04:26:50 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
You do have a good point about the Urban milieu of SA though


"Urban milieu"? I didn't know they even let Mac users buy consoles!  :wink:
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2004, 04:34:48 PM »

I don't know what you mean by the game not having much gameplay or as good of gameplay. Reading all the features that are in GTA: SA and comparing them to the previous GTA games makes GTA: SA seem like it has a lot more gameplay than GTA III or VC by a long shot.

I don't know why playing a black guy would make it seem like you won't have the feeling of playing someone who is an extension of yourself. So you don't enjoy games that feature a female as the lead character? Or is it okay if she's white? I think you need to clarify your thought process for us else you'll come across as a racist; and you do come across as being racist.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.  :wink:  :roll:



Quote
...throws it in the trash in my opinion.


With comments like that you're only reinforcing my belief that you're waving this titles off because it stars a black guy.
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2004, 04:38:17 PM »

I never felt that playing a psychopathic excon was an extension of myself.  In fact, it was that fact that made the escapism of playing one in the GTA series so much fun.  As a result, the personal context of the main character is only critical for me in the sense that it must be entertaining and interesting.
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2004, 04:44:38 PM »

So does the GG rule of no impressions until page 2 carry over here?  :wink:
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2004, 04:50:52 PM »

Quote from: "Sparhawk"
I don't know what you mean by the game not having much gameplay or as good of gameplay. Reading all the features that are in GTA: SA and comparing them to the previous GTA games makes GTA: SA seem like it has a lot more gameplay than GTA III or VC by a long shot.

I don't know why playing a black guy would make it seem like you won't have the feeling of playing someone who is an extension of yourself. So you don't enjoy games that feature a female as the lead character? Or is it okay if she's white? I think you need to clarify your thought process for us else you'll come across as a racist; and you do come across as being racist.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.  :wink:  :roll:



Quote
...throws it in the trash in my opinion.


With comments like that you're only reinforcing my belief that you're waving this titles off because it stars a black guy.


Do we really need to go down this road?  I would hope that we can discuss this without calling anyone a racist (which I didn't get at all from his post).  And yes there are people out there who don't necessarily like playing women in games too.  I'v read discussion that Monolith (or Sierra) though that gamers playing a woman in the NOLF series might have been partly responsible for the games' lackluster sales and part of the failed experiment that was Contract Jack.  

Am I a racist or a chauvenist because if an RPG lets me define my character's appearance I never play a black person or a female?  

I don't think the issue with San Andreas is race so much as the setting (a stylized South Central LA).  There aren't too many pure entertainments that feature that as a setting- most feature at least some level of social commentary.  The settings for both VC and GTA III, on the other hand, take their cue from the modern mobster mythos perpetuated in The Godfather, Scarface, Sopranos, and many others that don't necessarily have much bearing on the real life mob.  I grew up on many of these movies and understand their conventions.  I haven't, however, grown up steeped in the lore of drive-by-shootings and thug life and such a setting in a videogame holds no inherent appeal to me.
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2004, 05:07:07 PM »

Wow...racist card already being dealt.  Trust me, I'm not racist and maybe I didn't articulate myself enough.

In GTA3 you were not named, in inteviews after GTA3 came out Rockstar was sure to point out that they wanted the main character to be an extension of yourself (that's where my comment comes from).

Maybe adding Vice City in there was not the right thing to do.  For that, I'm sorry.

As for this game, Kevin Grey hit the nail on the head.  I am much more interested in the "simple hired hood" (GTA3) and "mob scene" (Vice City) stories than I would be in gang wars/young man coming back home and being pulled back in to the greater California/Nevada area.  From the gameplay perspective I was talking more about that I hesitant on the whole gang shootings from the car and stuff.  The gameplay may not be as fun to me, but may be more fun to other people.

And I'm not waving the title off because it stars a black man.  As I said, I will rent this game to see how it is.  If I like it a lot I'll buy it.  Fact is I've written the reviews for the other two games in this series on PS2, so don't think I'm not having a hard time just picking this game up and playing it.
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2004, 05:18:18 PM »

Until reading the reactions here I never really considered the idea that the inner city setting was anyway substantially different than the mob leanings of the other GTAs.  While it may be somewhat of a departure, crime is crime.  I for one am looking forward to exploring the differences and the giant world.  I do enjoy the GTA series because of the immersion, so I can see where if you were uncomfortable with the character or the setting someone might be turned off on the game.  Unfortunately I didn't pre-order so I'll be searching for a copy tomorrow, hopefully not in vain.
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2004, 05:18:35 PM »

I think Rockstar and Take Two also recognize some of the difficulties in promotion and are going out their way in recent ads and previews to make it seem much more broad based in its appeal.  The Guns N' Roses spot has been mentioned several time on this board and others and its a good example of taking a slice of life from the early 90s era that isn't necessarily associated with the 'hood.  The same for many of the images and scenery in the previews in ads- parachuting out of a plane and the scenes from the "country" areas come to mind.
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2004, 05:24:02 PM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Wow...racist card already being dealt.

Sorry, I'll try and shuffle better next time.   :wink:

Though I'm a pansy pale white kid, I don't have any problem playing a black guy in GTA:SA--just like I didn't have any problem playing a mute James Dean wannabe in GTA3 or a mouthy Italian in GTA:VC.  Ultimately it will be the story's job of relating us to the main character--not the color of his skin.

Expect some NAACP heckling when the game is released though.  "Portraying a black man as a criminal?!  How dare you!"
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2004, 05:28:51 PM »

Quote from: "Macuraf"
Until reading the reactions here I never really considered the idea that the inner city setting was anyway substantially different than the mob leanings of the other GTAs.  While it may be somewhat of a departure, crime is crime.  


Like I mentioned in my earlier post this is one of the few times I recall seeing a high profile entertainment in this setting that isn't trying to put forth some level of social commentary.  Its just not a setting that really made "light" of very often.  Even some of the comedies that have used this setting haven't been free of some level of commentary.

On the flip side, games like Vice City and The Getaway clearly take their cues from  entertainments like Scarface and Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels and bear very little resemblance to reality.  

For some of these reasons I almost won't be surprised if San Andreas turns out to be more controversial than previous GTAs depending on how Rockstar handles some of the themes.  The previous titles were clearly based on the movie version of the mob which at times is almost appealing with its family and codes of honor.  Then again, this being the third iteration of GTA this generation helps insualte it from most controversy.
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2004, 05:38:04 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"

Expect some NAACP heckling when the game is released though.  "Portraying a black man as a criminal?!  How dare you!"


But how is this different than the 10,000 or so movies where black men are portrayed as criminals?
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2004, 05:47:17 PM »

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE? :shock:
How did you people managed to take impressions into a black or white issue?
ITS A GAME....  :evil:
Real gamers play to escape reality. (at least I do)
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2004, 05:48:20 PM »

My EB should have it tonight.

(Yes, I'm changing the subject)  biggrin
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« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2004, 05:54:32 PM »

Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"

Expect some NAACP heckling when the game is released though.  "Portraying a black man as a criminal?!  How dare you!"


But how is this different than the 10,000 or so movies where black men are portrayed as criminals?
Now now, Jeff.  We both know "logic" has no place in the NAACP.
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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2004, 06:10:32 PM »

Does NBA 2K5 count?
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2004, 06:29:37 PM »

AgtFox: Okay, I understand your viewpoint more clearly now and extend an apology to you that I hope you'll accept.  I was not trying to be combative in my post, thought it certainly came off as an attack.
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2004, 06:37:15 PM »

Holy crap... :shock:

Alright, since I'm lacking in my funny pictures ability right now, get your minds away fromthe NAACP (looking at you Ebonstone) and focus on the issue at hand: Impressions of GTA: SA.

If playing as a black man offends you, take it elsewhere. It ruins the immersion for me about as much as it would playing an Italian mobster if I were Hispanic. Rockstar offers a slice of the underbelly of American society, and here's one more piece. Get past it. smile

That being said, I'm really anxious to see whether the game looks better than its predecessors, or if it looks exactly the same with just more things to do.
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2004, 06:37:29 PM »

So is it 7:00 yet? Not here  frown

Come on page 2, I want some impressions.
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2004, 06:44:13 PM »

I have a release time question (since release date is no longer in question)

Why are we getting times like 5:00 and 7:00? Is this when the deliveries are supposed to come to our local EBs or do they already have them and this is some ploy to hold the game out longer?

Are we going to get down to 'Release Hours' beling listed? :wink:
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2004, 06:52:08 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
I have a release time question (since release date is no longer in question)

Why are we getting times like 5:00 and 7:00? Is this when the deliveries are supposed to come to our local EBs or do they already have them and this is some ploy to hold the game out longer?

Are we going to get down to 'Release Hours' beling listed? :wink:


Yeah, I've been curioius about that myself.  I don't know if it has something to do with timestamping of the receipts to avoid being fined for breaking street date or what.

In some cases it is delivery times- some stores will make an effort to get the game same day shipped or go pick up the game at the airport.  Other times I think the games have been in stock for a few days.

What's interesting is that its only the dedicated game shops (Gamestop, EB) that seem to try it.  The major chains (Best Buy, CC) usually wait until the no-shit streetdate or after even if they already have the product.
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2004, 06:53:18 PM »

7pm is the time for my local EB Games. I'm going up there at 6pm to see if there is a line, if not I'll park my vehicle and wait. If a line starts forming all get out and join the line. I have a feeling it's going to be packed at 6pm though, and I'll just have to wait until tomorrow. No biggie.
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2004, 06:55:39 PM »

While we are waiting for impressions, I had a thought about inverted scalpers... probably not the right term, but this is what I visualise the situation to be in, say, Lenox Mall in downtown Atlanta right outside the EB store. People are lined up to pick up their copies of GTASA, and in a bunch right next to them are folks holding up signs or money indicatiing how much more than $50 they would pay to have their mitts on a copy of the game today.

Assuming you're a well-off urbanite who didn't get down in time to put in a pre-order, how much are YOU willing to pay over $50 to get your hands on the game?

Or, even better, how much dough would it take for you to part with your eagerly anticipated San Andreas?
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2004, 07:04:02 PM »

Just called my EB and their manager has not returned from the airport yet.
7pm is still ago. and there are only 7 people waithing right now its 3pm.
I am hearing word of kids leaving school and going to the store and just waithing there till 7pm for game and picked up by parents.
Damn  EB  just became an after school day care program
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2004, 07:06:28 PM »

Quote
and there are only 7 people waithing right now its 3pm.


That's sad...
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« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2004, 07:08:32 PM »

Hmm, maybe I should call my EB to see if there is a line yet. I refuse to wait 4-5 hours outside a store for a game. A Game Console sure, but never a single game. Well maybe for Halo 2.
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« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2004, 07:18:30 PM »

Quote from: "jztemple"
Assuming you're a well-off urbanite who didn't get down in time to put in a pre-order, how much are YOU willing to pay over $50 to get your hands on the game?
$0.00.

Especially since I can meander over to Best Buy or ToysRUs on Wednesday and get a much better deal than EB is offering.

Or I can just wait for my order from SwapYourGames.com to go through. I've got a copy of GTA:SA coming my way via that (I was thinking of buying early and returning the copy from SYG when it came in to the store I bought early from.)
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« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2004, 07:20:25 PM »

Quote from: "jztemple"


Or, even better, how much dough would it take for you to part with your eagerly anticipated San Andreas?


If someone walked up to me, after I left the store with the game today, and offered me anything more than what I paid for it, I'd strongly consider taking it.

Mike
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« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2004, 07:21:10 PM »

W00t!  An impressions thread with no impressions until page 2!!
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« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2004, 09:24:42 PM »

This bit from a Reuters article:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&storyID=6602278

Quote
"It is very violent (and includes) shooting cops," said Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter. "People like being the bad guy. This is a way of acting out a stupid fantasy."

Pachter adds that Microsoft's "Halo 2" is "every bit as violent, but the things that you are shooting don't look like people. They look like space suit guys."


Because it's perfectly okay to shoot astronauts!!
Oh nos John Glenn!!1!1
 :shock:
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« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2004, 09:35:34 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"


Or I can just wait for my order from SwapYourGames.com to go through. I've got a copy of GTA:SA coming my way via that (I was thinking of buying early and returning the copy from SYG when it came in to the store I bought early from.)



Interesting site. I didn't know about them. Are they pretty reliable, and do you get new/sealed games, or if used do they include the box/manual and some kind of warranty against scratches?
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« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2004, 09:55:12 PM »

I can see his point of view. I, being a white male, like to play characters that kind of resemble me, BUT part of the pull of games like this comes from being able to be something you aren't. Example: a black male police officer playing a white female criminal.
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« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2004, 10:00:36 PM »

Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"


Or I can just wait for my order from SwapYourGames.com to go through. I've got a copy of GTA:SA coming my way via that (I was thinking of buying early and returning the copy from SYG when it came in to the store I bought early from.)



Interesting site. I didn't know about them. Are they pretty reliable, and do you get new/sealed games, or if used do they include the box/manual and some kind of warranty against scratches?
The deals I've done with them have been great.  For new releases, you actually get sealed, brand new copies of the games.

For example, I traded Star Ocean 3 for a new Burnout 3 a couple weeks back.  They gave me $40 for Star Ocean 3, so I only had to pay $10 for a brand new Burnout 3.  That beats the pants off EB.

I haven't really explored their used section, though.  Of course, they require the case insert and manual, and there are provisions in their user contract that state if the disc is damaged prior to shipment, it's sent back to you at your expense... so I'd assume the used quality is fine too.

Though it looks kind of hollow in terms of personality with its WinXP-like syle and design, the site staff is surprisingly friendly, efficient, and chatty, if you so desire to speak with them.  

SYG actually has a referral program that offers a free preowned game if you can get 10 of your buddies to make a trade on the site, which is pretty cool.  That being said, I'm going to go ahead and have them send you an email, Jeff--don't worry, they won't screw you over with spam, I found the site by referral myself and have yet to see any kind of crap in my mailbox beyond the first mailing.

If anyone else is interested in the site, please PM me with your email address and I'll list you as a referral too!
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« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2004, 10:30:11 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"

quote]Now now, Jeff.  We both know "logic" has no place in the NAACP.


Card carrying member of the NAACP.  Jeez, I come to CG & GG to escape reality, but attacking an organization that has promoted equality for minorities and women is not something I want to read. Yes, I am a african-american male and I find the NAACP to be quite logical and ethical
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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2004, 10:46:32 PM »

Just a friendly reminder that we should focus on the game and try to steer non-gaming discussions (like the role of the NAACP) to the "off-topic"  forum.
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« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2004, 10:50:06 PM »

Quote from: "juniordan"
I am hearing word of kids leaving school and going to the store and just waithing there till 7pm for game and picked up by parents.
Damn  EB  just became an after school day care program


I hope they enforce the "M" policy and don't sell it to them unless their mommy comes in and buys it.  Not because I don't want them playing it (they will find a way), but because I think it would be funny. :twisted:
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2004, 11:17:30 PM »

It's mine baby! Just got back from EB with GTA:SA!  6pm CST it went on sale here.  I got the guide, HIHGLY recommended as its absolutely AWSOME.  The guide is huge and full color, i spent an hour there reading it before they let me take it and the game home.  Cya in a few weeks when the opening day fever wears off!
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