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Question: What was your PC GOAT of the Year for 2004?  (Voting closed: December 16, 2004, 03:13:56 PM)
Doom 3 - 23 (26.4%)
World of Warcraft - 13 (14.9%)
Half-Life 2 - 11 (12.6%)
Spider-Man 2 for PC - 29 (33.3%)
Everquest 2 - 4 (4.6%)
Star Wars: Battlegrounds - 7 (8%)
Total Voters: 87

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Author Topic: GOAT of the Year Voting: PC edition  (Read 6429 times)
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2005, 08:26:32 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I'm just not sure why people have a problem playing the game online if they're already online.  You do realize that by merely opening a connection to 'the internet,' you're putting your computer at a risk far and beyond what Steam is capable of, don't you?


Maybe they are using dial up and don't want to tie up their phone lines for hours? A guy I know at worked has AOL and tried to get HL2 to work in offline mode. It refused. If he plays it online, when he disconects the phone line (since he doesn't want to tie up his voice line for hours) his computer switches to desktop and Half Life 2 crashes.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2005, 08:43:24 PM »

Wait a minute!


Quote
yes, you can play in offline mode with an active internet connection. all you have to do is set your firewall to block Steam's access to the internet...same effect as disabling your internet connection, but all other programs will still have net access.  


and

Quote
Try physically disconnecting your network cable (be it broadband or phone line) from your computer's modem. That should make offline mode work fine.


These are mutually exclusive (If I have to unplug my modem, obviously other programs won't be accessing the internet).

Pleae explain.
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2005, 09:28:18 PM »

Quote from: "Rob_Merritt"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I'm just not sure why people have a problem playing the game online if they're already online.  You do realize that by merely opening a connection to 'the internet,' you're putting your computer at a risk far and beyond what Steam is capable of, don't you?


Maybe they are using dial up and don't want to tie up their phone lines for hours? A guy I know at worked has AOL and tried to get HL2 to work in offline mode. It refused. If he plays it online, when he disconects the phone line (since he doesn't want to tie up his voice line for hours) his computer switches to desktop and Half Life 2 crashes.

I think we've identified the problem...
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jimmyorr99
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« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2005, 04:35:02 PM »

Definitely Spiderman 2, that game is brutal. Somehow it was hyped out of the park too. It was flat out disappointing. So much talk for not much game.
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2005, 05:48:35 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
These are mutually exclusive (If I have to unplug my modem, obviously other programs won't be accessing the internet).

Pleae explain.
It's either/or.  If you're good enough with a Firewall to disable Steam's access of the internet, go for it.  But if that refuses to work, you may have to physically disconnect your computer from the internet for it to work.

The dial-up solution is easy--let it connect, patch, and confirm.  Shut down your computer and remove the phone line from the modem.  Then start back up and run Half-Life 2.  It should engage offline mode after some bitching.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2005, 12:04:09 AM »

*Should* or *Does*?

Big difference there.  I've lied many a time using 'this should happen'...
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2005, 12:10:10 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
*Should* or *Does*?

Big difference there.  I've lied many a time using 'this should happen'...
I don't have dialup, so I don't know.

I really don't care to argue this point any more, though, Big.  It's clear you think Valve is out to steal, as JeffK would put it, "ur kredt card nummars & manpr0n."  Whether they're actually doing that is irrelevant--they made you activate the game online, and that ruffled your feathers so bad you refuse to even judge the game on its own merits.

Oh, and a hot tip for you:  Half-Life 2 was just as playable right out of the box as Doom 3 was.  The difference is, Half-Life 2's box clearly states you'll need an internet connection to play, while Doom 3's doesn't.  As long as you read and understood the system requirements, you were fine.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2005, 12:44:31 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
*Should* or *Does*?.


It should, and sometimes does.  Though not consistantly
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Big Jake
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« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2005, 07:32:23 PM »

Quote
It's clear you think Valve is out to steal, as JeffK would put it, "ur kredt card nummars & manpr0n."


And it's been clear since day 1 that there are a lot of gamers who think that because they make games, Valve isn't a 'corporate entity' (aka, malicious group of people who will willingly kill you if it makes them money (see references under Ford CO.))

I wonder if gamers also believe that all candy companies are run by an oddly funny guy in a top hat who has lots of short musical dwarves doing his bidding.
-------------
Process for Doom3:
INstall
Start playing.

Process for Hl2 (retail release):
Install
activate
Start playing

I had no need to 'activate' Doom3 once it was installed, so no, HL2 wasn't 'as playable as Doom3 out of the box'.  Denying reality does not make it so, LE.
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« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2005, 10:05:59 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
I had no need to 'activate' Doom3 once it was installed, so no, HL2 wasn't 'as playable as Doom3 out of the box'.  Denying reality does not make it so, LE.
Doom 3 didn't require an internet connection.

Based on their system requirements, Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 are equally playable right out of the box.

By the way, you do indeed have to "activate" Doom 3 every time you want to play it -- it's called having the CD in the drive.  So that point's kind of moot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  navigating to this site to post points about how Steam is spyware is equally dangerous to your system integrity as using Steam itself.

And yet you're here, time and time again, railing on Steam for being a program which you only assume is malicious.

Let's see some evidence of Steam's privacy-invading evil.  Until then, the anti-Steam internet argument will continue to be the realm of paranoid hypocrites.
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« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2005, 10:06:59 PM »

Oh, and 12 votes for WoW with only 3 for EQ2?

I guess that's a testament to how poorly EQ2 sold.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2005, 12:37:35 AM »

Quote
 the way, you do indeed have to "activate" Doom 3 every time you want to play it -- it's called having the CD in the drive


Which you have to do with retail HL2.  So your point is what?
 I don't have to go online with Doom3 and that is one less step.  For God sakes, LE, is the Number 1, which is the number of steps more that HL2 has, a quantifiable integer larger than Zero? (Lets see if your math skills have advanced to the age of ancient Greece.)


Quote
I've said it before and I'll say it again: navigating to this site to post points about how Steam is spyware is equally dangerous to your system integrity as using Steam itself.  


 biggrin  Absolutely True!  And I'm equally as certain the entire information I used to register for this board is probably the same info Steam would collect.  The difference is I choose to come here, instead of a game company trying to force it on me in order to play a game.
World of difference between something given of free will versus taken by forcible coercion.  Rape versus Sex my friend.

Quote
And yet you're here, time and time again, railing on Steam for being a program which you only assume is malicious.
 

(Point 1) I've qualified this MANY times before:  no other game companies felt it necessary to do this, so clearly Steam isn't necessary  in order to make a game.  Therefore, for reasons unknown to me, they are trying to force non-game software on me.  And as I've said before, I will always refuse something someone tries to force on me.  If it was good for me (ie Polio Vaccine), then they wouldn't need to force it with insults (Ie, your tinhat picture that you had displayed in other threads the first several times we had this argument.)

(Point 2) Why do you implitly trust them?  Do you work there? Do you know these guys personally?  I assume it's malicious. You assume it's not malicious.  In absence of proof, why is your point more valid than mine?

Quote
Until then, the anti-Steam internet argument will continue to be the realm of paranoid hypocrites.


(1)Why am I a hypocrite?  I've never used Bittorrent, Kazaa, Napster, etc.  So, where did that name flinging come from?
(2)  I think it was the very first thread on this subject on this board where someone said I was a paranoid nut.  You know what?  I accepted the tag right then and there.   LE, if it wasn't for paranoid nuts like me,  you'd have no personal rights at all.
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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2005, 01:22:18 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Quote
 the way, you do indeed have to "activate" Doom 3 every time you want to play it -- it's called having the CD in the drive


Which you have to do with retail HL2.  So your point is what?
 


Actually not anymore.  That was patched out.
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jimmyorr99
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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2005, 05:32:14 PM »

For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2005, 07:04:00 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Rape versus Sex my friend.
 
Ok, not only is that just a stupid comparison, it's also in very poor taste.

Running with your insensitive jargon, however:

Steam is not rape.  You consented for it to be installed on your computer the minute you opened the Half-Life 2 box.  Why?  Because of the "Internet Connection Required" line.

Again, if this slipped you by, you had SEVERAL chances to turn down Steam's installation on your computer.  Steam was not "piggybacked" onto the installation.  You either installed it and played Half-Life 2, or you didn't.

Steam is not hidden.  In fact, you have to go through it to play Half-Life 2 and any of Valve's other products.  You see and interact with Steam on your terms.  It is never invisible.

Steam does not force itself upon you.  It's a part of Half-Life 2, and playing Half-Life 2 is a voluntary act.  Sure, it defaults to starting up when Windows does, but that's easily turned off, and it creates no internet traffic if it's not running.

In short, you choose when you want to run Steam.  It doesn't run otherwise.  That is not "rape."  For the program to run, you must give it your consent.

Quote

(Point 1) I've qualified this MANY times before:  no other game companies felt it necessary to do this, so clearly Steam isn't necessary  in order to make a game.

(Point 2) Why do you implitly trust them?  Do you work there? Do you know these guys personally?  I assume it's malicious. You assume it's not malicious.  In absence of proof, why is your point more valid than mine?


1.)  3D acceleration isn't necessary in order to make a game either.  But that's caught on.

Steam is a next-generation anti-piracy tool.  Between it and buying a CD that my drive might not read properly, (or that contained Starforce, which actually does fit the definition of spyware), I'll take Steam, thanks.

2.)  I trust them to the extent that a customer trusts a retailer.  I trust them to the extent that I can give them my credit card number and make a purchase without them attempting to steal my identity.  Finally, I trust them within the realm of logic -- it would be extremely bad business to screw over people, or have Steam stealing your various passwords, or something like that.  Indeed, in the hyper-paranoid realm of internet business, such transgressions would quickly be found out, and the resultant backlash could prove both fatal for the company and felonious.

When I cross the street on a "walk" sign, I trust the drivers at the intersection will abide by the red light that signals them not to run me down.  It's the same principle here.  Sure, Valve's a big bad SUV and I'm a squishy pedestrian target, but I trust them (or rather, their fear of the red light) more than I fear for my own safety.

Quote

(1)Why am I a hypocrite?  I've never used Bittorrent, Kazaa, Napster, etc.  So, where did that name flinging come from?
(2)  I think it was the very first thread on this subject on this board where someone said I was a paranoid nut.  You know what?  I accepted the tag right then and there.   LE, if it wasn't for paranoid nuts like me,  you'd have no personal rights at all.


1.)  Because the act of posting arguments in this forum is equally dangerous, from a technical standpoint, as using Steam is.

See that ad bar at the top?

2.)  If it were for paranoid nuts like you, Big, we'd all be wearing tin foil hats.
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« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2005, 07:06:36 PM »

Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
Two words:  Monster closets.
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« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2005, 08:23:31 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
And I'm equally as certain the entire information I used to register for this board is probably the same info Steam would collect.  The difference is I choose to come here...

You only think you choose to come here.  Really it's inevitable.  And all part of our plans for world domination.  Mwah hah hah hah....
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jimmyorr99
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« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2005, 09:39:20 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
Two words:  Monster closets.


Fair enough I guess....
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2005, 09:49:35 PM »

Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
Two words:  Monster closets.


Fair enough I guess....

Big whoop - the original Doom had "monster closets", so at least it's consistent with the Doom world smile  It just didn't bother me like it does some people.
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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2005, 09:54:04 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
Two words:  Monster closets.


Fair enough I guess....

Big whoop - the original Doom had "monster closets", so at least it's consistent with the Doom world smile  It just didn't bother me like it does some people.


For me it was that within the first 15 minutes of gameplay you had seen everything that the game had to offer. Apart from the brief departure for the visit to hell you spent the entire game in the same dark room and hallway with the same pipes and lighting effects and pseudo-sci machinery waiting for monsters to jump out and go RAAR! when you hit their trigger point.
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« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2005, 10:02:09 PM »

Quote from: "Gryndyl"
Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "jimmyorr99"
For all you guys that voted for Doom3, why?
Two words:  Monster closets.


Fair enough I guess....

Big whoop - the original Doom had "monster closets", so at least it's consistent with the Doom world smile  It just didn't bother me like it does some people.


For me it was that within the first 15 minutes of gameplay you had seen everything that the game had to offer. Apart from the brief departure for the visit to hell you spent the entire game in the same dark room and hallway with the same pipes and lighting effects and pseudo-sci machinery waiting for monsters to jump out and go RAAR! when you hit their trigger point.

Yeah, now that I can agree with.  But the worst game of the year?  Nah.  It's much better than the worst game of the year just on technical merit alone.  And it *is* fun - just not enough variety to keep me interested the whole way through.
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« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2005, 10:28:10 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
But the worst game of the year?  Nah.  
By far the most disappointing, though.

High profile, hyped-out-the-ass games make messier, gorier splats when they bomb.  Thus Doom 3 is a very valid choice as a GOAT.  

Actually, with the exception of 'value software,' I can't think of a FPS I enjoyed less than Doom 3.  Hell, even Unreal 2, which mostly got panned, kicks Doom 3's ass.
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« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2005, 02:04:38 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Laner"
But the worst game of the year?  Nah.  
By far the most disappointing, though.

High profile, hyped-out-the-ass games make messier, gorier splats when they bomb.  Thus Doom 3 is a very valid choice as a GOAT.

While that's some, uh, colorful imagery, I disagree with your rationale.  It's just as specious as voting for HL2 because you dislike the delivery system.
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« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2005, 04:25:02 AM »

Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Laner"
But the worst game of the year?  Nah.  
By far the most disappointing, though.

High profile, hyped-out-the-ass games make messier, gorier splats when they bomb.  Thus Doom 3 is a very valid choice as a GOAT.

While that's some, uh, colorful imagery, I disagree with your rationale.  It's just as specious as voting for HL2 because you dislike the delivery system.
Not so.  I wasn't saying Doom 3 was a decent game but wasn't as good as it should have been -- I'm saying it was a downright unenjoyable one (for me).  It gets my GOAT vote because it's not only a celebrity game, but a downright awful one too.

See:  Master of Orion 3.
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« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2005, 04:25:32 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Big Jake"
They said it is available to play in offline mode, so he he shouldn't have to do anything else.
Evidently he's not truly offline if it's not working for him.

Try physically disconnecting your network cable (be it broadband or phone line) from your computer's modem.  That should make offline mode work fine.



LE, no offense, it will NOT work off line. I've spent far more time dicking around with that game to get it to play offline. It will not. Not matter how much crap I download from steam. Disconnecting the cable does not matter. I can walk away for half an hour and steam sits there bitching about how it can't connect. BTW, I had to install a modem in my son's computer because it was never supposed to be internet capable. We have my pos for that. Only one computer to monitor for viruses and spyware, y'know?

So far he's gotten more gaming time in on "Curse of Monkey Island" and Planescape Torment.

HL2, pretty as it is, could be Duke Nukem 3d as far as gameplay is concerned. Certainly not worth the money he paid, IMHO.
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« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2005, 05:58:50 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Laner"
But the worst game of the year?  Nah.  
By far the most disappointing, though.

High profile, hyped-out-the-ass games make messier, gorier splats when they bomb.  Thus Doom 3 is a very valid choice as a GOAT.

While that's some, uh, colorful imagery, I disagree with your rationale.  It's just as specious as voting for HL2 because you dislike the delivery system.
Not so.  I wasn't saying Doom 3 was a decent game but wasn't as good as it should have been -- I'm saying it was a downright unenjoyable one (for me).  It gets my GOAT vote because it's not only a celebrity game, but a downright awful one too.

See:  Master of Orion 3.


That makes sense. I do think there is some mis-voting going on because people are voting based on the hype that Doom3 received. Personally, I was still being shocked in Delta Labs. It had a great atmosphere, I found myself hearing the teleport sound and thinking to myself "Oh shit, here we go again, oh God, oh God!" and running out of the room to hide from whatever was after me.
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« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2005, 10:09:39 PM »

Quote from: "Default"
LE, no offense, it will NOT work off line. I've spent far more time dicking around with that game to get it to play offline. It will not. Not matter how much crap I download from steam. Disconnecting the cable does not matter. I can walk away for half an hour and steam sits there bitching about how it can't connect. BTW, I had to install a modem in my son's computer because it was never supposed to be internet capable. We have my pos for that. Only one computer to monitor for viruses and spyware, y'know?

So far he's gotten more gaming time in on "Curse of Monkey Island" and Planescape Torment.

HL2, pretty as it is, could be Duke Nukem 3d as far as gameplay is concerned. Certainly not worth the money he paid, IMHO.

No offense taken, bro.  I'm just saying, it's logical to assume that Steam still thinks you're online if it won't engage offline mode.  Now, I don't know if that's a problem with Steam or with your computer.  But offline mode is there and I have seen it in action.  

Still, I'm sorry it's not working for you... have you tried reading over Valve's forums?
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« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2005, 03:05:49 AM »

LE, I've seen and played offline too, just not on his computer biggrin
Fortunately, he hasn't been too disapointed, he's playing Rome Total War too!
Valve forums seem to consist of "Dewd, ur a priate, what do you expect?"
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« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2005, 02:39:27 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
And it's been clear since day 1 that there are a lot of gamers who think that because they make games, Valve isn't a 'corporate entity' (aka, malicious group of people who will willingly kill you if it makes them money (see references under Ford CO.))

I wonder if gamers also believe that all candy companies are run by an oddly funny guy in a top hat who has lots of short musical dwarves doing his bidding.
-------------
Process for Doom3:
INstall
Start playing.

Process for Hl2 (retail release):
Install
activate
Start playing

I had no need to 'activate' Doom3 once it was installed, so no, HL2 wasn't 'as playable as Doom3 out of the box'.  Denying reality does not make it so, LE.


You know, as much as I hate joining the same side of the argument that LE is on, I gotta say, this is one of the more misguided/inane posts I've read.

By your logic, a game with 5 cds is less playable out of the box than a game with 4 cds.  More steps /= less playable.

Quote from: "Big Jake"
(Point 1) I've qualified this MANY times before:  no other game companies felt it necessary to do this, so clearly Steam isn't necessary  in order to make a game.  Therefore, for reasons unknown to me, they are trying to force non-game software on me.  And as I've said before, I will always refuse something someone tries to force on me.  If it was good for me (ie Polio Vaccine), then they wouldn't need to force it with insults (Ie, your tinhat picture that you had displayed in other threads the first several times we had this argument.)

(Point 2) Why do you implitly trust them?  Do you work there? Do you know these guys personally?  I assume it's malicious. You assume it's not malicious.  In absence of proof, why is your point more valid than mine?


Valve was the first company with the balls to do it.  Guess what though... I can guarantee the next major releases by the companies who know their product will sell (HELLO BLIZZARD!) will run something similar to Steam.  Valve started a process that will trickle through the rest of the industry.  It may take a year, but it's a coming.  Half Life 2 was successful, Steam was successful.  Welcome to the future.

And it's not that any of us implicitly trust them so to speak.  It's more of a) what the fuck are they going to do with my information that will make it worth the negative press if they get caught and b) what the fuck do I have to hide?

gellar
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« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2005, 07:46:11 AM »

Hahaha.  Welcome to the dark side, Gellar.   :twisted:
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« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2005, 03:48:17 PM »

While I convinced myself I wasn't going to argue. this anymore, I want to respond to a couple specific things from Gellar.

"Welcome to the future"
Have I ever mentioned how much I hate people that say, well, your losing your privacy anyway, so you shouldn't fight it?  If Big Brother was to actually happen, I would damn well have to be "re-educated".  I will not go along willingly.   People who accept evil or wrong things being perpetrated are less than human, IMO.  You have a DUTY to stand up and say, 'this isn't right.'.

"What the fuck do I have to hide"
You know what the first argument every nutjob evil facist dictator uses?  "If you're innocent, then you have nothing to fear from invasion of your privacy".  THAT IS PURE FUCKING BULLSHIT!  What you may or may not have to hide is completely inconsequential.  The fact is, why should I have to  defend my personal rights from an arrangement that would exist only to benefit a certain person/select group of people?


(Please note -  I am not arguing Steam anymore.  I'm only addressing the thoughts processes I can discern behind Gellar's post.)

OH, and what's Blizzard's next game?  I want to take you up on that bet that they will come up with a Steam-like client.  Care to attach some stakes to that bet?
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« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2005, 06:02:33 PM »

I wonder how many people wernt even paying attention and when they read the list assumed GOTY and voted for something.....  Because if WoW or Half Life 2 are GOAT's, I'm Marylin Monroe...

I think someone here is a just a little bitter and angry and thusly made that list... most of those games dont deserve to be up there, and if they are GOATS, I'd HATE to see where some of the other horrible, horrible, horrible games that came out this year were on this list..

Maybe we should be considering games that were genuinely horrible...
Apocalyptica
Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing
FBI Hostage Rescue

if you really want to make a list of some of the games above your best bet is :
Biggest Disappointment of the year... not GOAT.. because I can guarendamtee you I can list 10-12 games in each genre worse than the games you have above  (Well It'll be close for spiderman2... maybe if I can use consoles I could get 12 in each)... those are not GOATS, pure and simple...
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« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2005, 07:20:30 PM »

Quote from: "Semaj"
I think someone here is a just a little bitter and angry and thusly made that list...

Actually I'm pretty sure there was a nomination thread, followed by the actual voting.
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« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2005, 07:58:08 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
While I convinced myself I wasn't going to argue. this anymore, I want to respond to a couple specific things from Gellar.

"Welcome to the future"
Have I ever mentioned how much I hate people that say, well, your losing your privacy anyway, so you shouldn't fight it?  If Big Brother was to actually happen, I would damn well have to be "re-educated".  I will not go along willingly.   People who accept evil or wrong things being perpetrated are less than human, IMO.  You have a DUTY to stand up and say, 'this isn't right.'.


But again really, I don't care.  If a Company wants me to do X to get their product, I have the option of purchasing it, and I have the option of not.  They aren't "forcing" me to do anything.  I wanted Half Life 2, I didn't mind whatever hoops Valve made me jump through to get it, so I bought it.  Now if they asked me to tame a lion or wear a pink skirt, I may have changed my mind.  You've made your choice too, which is also a perfectly valid one.  What I don't understand is your need to complain about it repeatedly.  It's fair, you don't like it.  This isn't evil, it's business.  NO ONE is forcing you to do anything.  You aren't losing your privacy, you are WILLINGLY letting Valve have whatever data they have said they will glean from your system (which ain't a whole hell of a lot).  No one is "taking" anything because they are "evil."  I have a duty to do whatever the hell I want, not sit around in a tin foil hat all day.

Quote
"What the fuck do I have to hide"
You know what the first argument every nutjob evil facist dictator uses?  "If you're innocent, then you have nothing to fear from invasion of your privacy".  THAT IS PURE FUCKING BULLSHIT!  What you may or may not have to hide is completely inconsequential.  The fact is, why should I have to  defend my personal rights from an arrangement that would exist only to benefit a certain person/select group of people?


This has nothing to do with government or dictators.  It has to do WITH A GAME ON MY PC.  I defend my privacy rights when it actually matters.  I don't get bent out of shape about a game, on my PC, which really has nothing I could give two shits about on it.  This is not the start of a grand scheme wherein big brother tracks everything I do.  It's a delivery mechanism for games.  That is all.  Best as I can tell, the government has nothing to do with Valve.


Quote
(Please note -  I am not arguing Steam anymore.  I'm only addressing the thoughts processes I can discern behind Gellar's post.)


You actually haven't addressed any points from my post other than making conjecture about how I am willingly going to bend over and let my rights get taken away from me.  I'm not.  Valve has taken no rights from me.

Quote
OH, and what's Blizzard's next game?  I want to take you up on that bet that they will come up with a Steam-like client.  Care to attach some stakes to that bet?


Well in theory, Blizzard's last game already did that.  But since it was an MMORPG, I won't argue that point.  It'll be a sequel to Starcraft, I'd venture to bet.  And I will put stakes to it if you wish.  Your call.

gellar
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