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Author Topic: gg Blizz: How I learned to stop caring and love the Alliance  (Read 4948 times)
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« on: November 09, 2004, 01:40:46 AM »

Well, I officially give up on my Warlock and the Horde in general.  gg, Blizzard.  You beat me.  I won't play the class/race combo I want to.

After training my level 22 spells today and going off to quest for the last bit of exp til 23, I found myself directed toward Ashenvale, the zone north of The Barrens.  Hoofing it there, I fought a few spiders and nonsense on the way, unable to summon my best pet as I was completely out of "soul shards," the Warlock's one and only reagent that you basically suck out of dying opponents.  Anyway, without one, I can only summon my crappiest pet.  Woohoo.

So I get to Ashenvale and the first thing I notice is I'm not getting exploration EXP anymore.  Uh, OK.  I bring up the map to the zone and see my destination, an outpost, was to the Northeast.

Ashenvale is like a Night Elf forest... really... purple.  And green.  And there are wisps.  I saw what looked to be an orcish lumbermill operation or something, so I walked over to check it out, but there were no NPCs I could talk to, just nameless "Orc Peons" and crap... I guess they were just mobs for an Alliance quest.

As I neared the outpost, I finally began to see NPCs with the trademark yellow  :!: over their heads... oddly, though, they were all clumped up together like Blizzard had hastily thrown their quests in.  Uh, OK.  I talk to a few of them and get quests which appear as dark red in my log.  Sigh.

So I'm in this stupid Night Elf forest surrounded by NPCs whose sole purpose is to be cannon fodder for an Alliance quest when it hits me:

Blizzard's purpose for the Horde players is to be mobs with better AI.

It was crystal clear.  The Horde isn't a real choice, it's just an unecessarily difficult 'other option.'  If you played the classic Battlezone FPS/RTS remake, you know you could select two campaigns:  the USA or the Russians.  The thing was, they didn't tell you the Russian campaign was meant to be played at the end of the US one--indeed, the first Russian mission is approximately as hard as the penultimate US one.  And did I mention the Russians ended up having a weaker, more senseless story?

It's all perfectly clear:  the Horde in World of Warcraft is just like the Russians in Battlezone.  It's got an underdeveloped story, undocumented difficulty, utterly bizarre trappings, (...the Undead are no longer considered Undead as of the newest patch...), and is more or less designed to be played by a level 60 Alliance player looking for, I dunno, a good laugh.

At level 22 as an Undead Warlock, I'm out of soloable quests.  Well, I lie--there's one left I could do solo.  The rest are deep red in my log, which means I'd get my ass handed to me.

I never hear of the Alliance having this problem.  They're rolling in quests.

And don't even get me started on how badly pure casters suck.

Right now I'm going to go roll up a Human Paladin or something in hopes I can determine whether I'll purchase this game or not come release day.  All I know is, I'm pretty damn disappointed right now.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2004, 01:53:41 AM »

Paladins blow..make a rogue...much more fun.
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2004, 01:59:09 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Well, I officially give up on my Warlock and the Horde in general.  gg, Blizzard.  You beat me.  I won't play the class/race combo I want to.


Quote
Right now I'm going to go roll up a Human Paladin or something in hopes I can determine whether I'll purchase this game or not come release day. All I know is, I'm pretty damn disappointed right now.



I don't know, man.  Perhaps you should check out EQ2 or something.  I've been following the posts about WoW and I just don't think it's for you.  

When it stops being fun and turns into one big annoyance or dissapointment after another I turn it off and move on.  There's just too much good stuff out there to get bogged down in a game you don't even want to be playing in the first place.

Obviously Blizzard made some decisions which you strongly disagree with.  As they say, you have but one recourse: vote with your wallet.
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2004, 02:03:44 AM »

Will you finally admit I am right?
No stiffler, LE is not just going crazy. This last patch was pure insanityfor casters. It took almost all the fun out of playing them. I am a CB guy, and it just blows. Every mage I know is just about ready to throw in the towel.

Let me know how you like the pally LE, i reccomend rogues as well.
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2004, 02:43:07 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Will you finally admit I am right?
No stiffler, LE is not just going crazy. This last patch was pure insanityfor casters. It took almost all the fun out of playing them. I am a CB guy, and it just blows. Every mage I know is just about ready to throw in the towel.

Let me know how you like the pally LE, i reccomend rogues as well.
I never said you weren't right, Rage.  Just, I wanted to make sure for myself.  And I did.  Pure casters, (aside from Priests, which have a use), suck.  A Rogue can out-DPS a Warlock or Mage any day of the week and actually live to tell the tale.  If the Warlock or Mage attempts to out-DPS the Rogue, they catch aggro, and with cloth armor's castration, die abruptly.  Or they just run out of mana.  And sit there.

What's so special about Rogues?  Can they solo well?
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2004, 02:50:58 AM »

They solo EXTREMELY well, they have almost zero downtime, they do massive, massive damage, they fun and engaging to play, but there is one caveat.

To truly enjoy and make the class useful and as powerful as they can be, you have to not mind going into stealth mode frequently, getting behind enemies, etc. You also are usually restricted to a dagger in your main hand to make many of the coolest specials available.

Personally, I didnt really care for the stealthy approach-it just doesn't suit my style of play...so I switched to warriors. Others love it and find it rewarding.

Right now, warrior or pally is where I am headed unless blizzard drastically changes the effects of the last patch on casters or give smages some cool stuff.
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2004, 02:51:35 AM »

Lots of classes are unhappy with recent patches, it isnt just casters.  Paladins do not seem happy.  I know capped Warriors are not happy.  They are going nuts on the changes recently...I dont know what kind of feedback they are listening to, but its nothing public that is for sure.

And while there is a definite pro-Alliance tilt in content, it isnt as bad as the first post would have you believe.  If you are gonna solo, expect to region hop looking for green/yellow soloable stuff.  That is just the way it is, and it was the same for all three of my 'mains'.

Have you checked Thousand Needles for quests?  Stonetalon?  Hillsbrad?

I played my Undead Warlock during beta 2, when the Horde content was WAY less developed than it is now, and while I did come close to running out of quests, I never actually did run out.  I know they have added tons of quests since then.

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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2004, 02:55:53 AM »

I'm loving my Rogue.  Look for a Troll named Thornish quietly stalking the Barrens, dagger in hand.
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2004, 03:08:27 AM »

Alright, so Rogues sound cool.  What's wrong with Paladins, though?  Why do they suck, Daehawk?
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2004, 03:21:24 AM »

To me they were just very boring.....warriors melee better and caster cast better..they are a combo class and I just did'nt care for them....but I only was in stress 1 so did'nt get high lvl with one.
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2004, 04:02:33 AM »

Jesus god Rogues are fun.  I just leveled one to six in the blink of an eye and was laughing hard at how fast stuff was dying.
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2004, 04:50:59 AM »

The Paladin forum seemed to be mixed, half liked the changes, half didn't.  My take is that the Paladins moved to more of a hybrid class, but have more to do in combat now, maybe a bit more strategy.  The changes look good.
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2004, 04:56:09 AM »

So warlocks stink? Bah, that is the class i thought looked most interesting :cry:
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2004, 05:02:22 AM »

Warlocks are fun...not the greatest class but fun.
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2004, 05:14:13 AM »

I don't know how you'd fare there, but I found some soloable Undead quests out in Tarren Mill.  You have to run a WAYS past the higher level stuff as you exit Silverpine and enter it.

And if you don't mind grouping a little, 22 might be able to take Shadowfang Keep.

I don't know what Blizzard's secret plans for casters are. I'll be honest.  I refuse to believe they will be laying on the ground helpless by the end of Open Beta.  They said in the little "Ask questions about the classes" that Warriors were getting awesome changes and Mages were getting new spells.  As the first part has come true, I'm thinking the second part will too.  And maybe the new spells will turn up the direct damage output and Mages will be happy again.

Or maybe Blizzard just doesn't like casters.  Funny, they had a whole game about them once ;-) (For those not in the know, Warcraft 3, Patch 1.05 I believe was known as CASTERCRAFT.)
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2004, 05:19:01 AM »

I personally love the Horde side.  I have a whole team of Tauren on closed, and began a new one in Final ST.  Obviously by my race choice I have only played a warrior, druid, shaman and hunter.  I loved the warrior.  They have gimped them as of late, but they are still fun.  If I play retail, I am definately playing Horde.  Alliance is just way too overcrowded, and if retail goes like closed beta did, all the assholes will be alliance and Horde will have it's one token asshole everyone loves to hate.  Alliance had 2 entire guilds dedicated to griefing.  Not PvP, but griefing.  They rarely fought in lands with Horde their own level, they always went to the lowbie contested zones to grief them.  Horde was ALWAYS more tactical, fought with more teamwork and consistently owned Alliance.  I actually have no explanation for this, and it still baffles me as to why this is.  I alway figured Horde would have all the pricks, but they ended up being the best side to be in Closed for PvP.  

When retail hits, if I decide to play I hope this trend continues and Horde remains the teamwork oriented faction.
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2004, 05:20:37 AM »

I would expect Rogues to get the nerf bat eventually.  They are just to fun to play.
I got mine to level 10 and I really like him.  I'm hesitant about picking up the full game and playing one because I know that by the time I get mine to level 40 they will be nerfed into oblivion.  Kinda like what happened to the mages.
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2004, 05:23:57 AM »

Devs havestated at some ponit that rogues are basically a finished class. I doubt we will see any significant changes that target them now.

Of course, they said that about mages 3 patches ago, now we are near useless one shot wonders.
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2004, 05:30:36 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Jesus god Rogues are fun.  I just leveled one to six in the blink of an eye and was laughing hard at how fast stuff was dying.
Well, I'm going to go ahead and take that back.  It got old quick.

I'm thinking this game might not be for me.  A pity EQ2 doesn't have a trial...
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2004, 05:36:39 AM »

why did it get old? Explanation?

Why not try a shaman? its an awesome awesome class

paladins and warriors are fun too.
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2004, 06:27:09 AM »

obviously this game is not for him. it was only a beta and he played for a very short period and i heard more complaints about it from him than anyone else here. no offense intended.
for me this game will endure because of the pvp. the little i have tasted of it, the more i liked this game.
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2004, 07:19:35 AM »

Quote from: "weeskwee"
obviously this game is not for him. it was only a beta and he played for a very short period and i heard more complaints about it from him than anyone else here. no offense intended.
for me this game will endure because of the pvp. the little i have tasted of it, the more i liked this game.
I'm just really pissed that pure casters are so... lame.  I'm fine with some initial weakness compared to other classes, but it's so frickin' obvious that Blizzard favors melee combat over everything and anything else in the game.

Case in point:  Melee classes all have a skill that closes the distance between them and their target--Warriors have that charge thing, Rogues get Dash, etc.  And in World of Warcraft's PvP, if a melee is in range of a caster, the caster is dead (or about to be).  Thus the nature of playing a caster in PvP is to have range.

The problem is, casters can't kill other players over a range.  Warlocks' direct damage takes FOUR SECONDS to cast at level 22 and does under 100 damage.  That means you have to target the enemy, click the DD, wait four seconds, and deal 90 damage.  Meanwhile, the melee gets the following clues to find you if he hasn't spotted you already:  a light show, sound, and an irregular stance.  Any of those clues, they have just under four seconds to stop you--and chances are, if they're in range of your DD, you're in range of their insta-close skill.  

They use their insta-close skill (which has no charge time) and you're only done with 2 or 3 seconds of casting.  

Smack, 100 damage (woohoo cloth armor).  Chanelling goes back a second.  

Smack, 89 damage.  Chanelling goes back half a second.  

Smack, 85 damage.  Your DD finally casts.  It either hits for 90, barely denting their HP, or they resist it.

Smack, 80 damage.  You have a sliver of life, they're hardly dented.  What now?  Utility spell?  Life drain?

Smack, 97 damage.  AARRRGGGGHH.  You will automatically release in 6 minutes.  [RELEASE NOW?]  The melee's HP is full by the time your death animation is over.

gg, Blizzard.
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2004, 02:00:11 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"

Case in point:  Melee classes all have a skill that closes the distance between them and their target--Warriors have that charge thing, Rogues get Dash, etc.  And in World of Warcraft's PvP, if a melee is in range of a caster, the caster is dead (or about to be).  Thus the nature of playing a caster in PvP is to have range.

The problem is, casters can't kill other players over a range.  Warlocks' direct damage takes FOUR SECONDS to cast at level 22 and does under 100 damage.  That means you have to target the enemy, click the DD, wait four seconds, and deal 90 damage.  Meanwhile, the melee gets the following clues to find you if he hasn't spotted you already:  a light show, sound, and an irregular stance.  Any of those clues, they have just under four seconds to stop you--and chances are, if they're in range of your DD, you're in range of their insta-close skill.  

They use their insta-close skill (which has no charge time) and you're only done with 2 or 3 seconds of casting.  

Smack, 100 damage (woohoo cloth armor).  Chanelling goes back a second.  

Smack, 89 damage.  Chanelling goes back half a second.  

Smack, 85 damage.  Your DD finally casts.  It either hits for 90, barely denting their HP, or they resist it.

Smack, 80 damage.  You have a sliver of life, they're hardly dented.  What now?  Utility spell?  Life drain?

Smack, 97 damage.  AARRRGGGGHH.  You will automatically release in 6 minutes.  [RELEASE NOW?]  The melee's HP is full by the time your death animation is over.


I am not saying that casters are right now underpowered in terms of PvP vs. melee, but you are not really giving an accurate account of how things work.

In regards to warriors, their "insta-close" spell is called Charge. It is not available when the warrior is attacked. If anyone else (or a mob, like say maybe a warlock pet?) is attacking the warrior, they can not use it. I assume that the warlock has some type of insta-cast spell (does not need to be a damage spell). Since both the warrior and the caster have insta-cast abilities, it really becomes a matter of who gets the jump on who. If the caster reacts first, the warrior can not use charge. If the warrior reacts first, the warrior can use charge.
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2004, 03:04:03 PM »

Tried playing a shaman?  Not really a pure caster, but I am consistently able to solo quests that I see other guys my level getting ganked on.  Of course, I'm only level 10. smile
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2004, 05:00:26 PM »

Class balancing is the nature of the beast when it comes to MMORPGS - it's unavoidable and it really does suck, but it's still going to happen.

I played a monk in Everquest. Loved the class. Really loved the non-dependence on weapons. The first expansion came out, and you had to have weapons to keep up on damage output. Then a class defining ability took a hit with the nerf bat (feign death), and then damage mitigation got mangled. Everyone of those changes pissed me off ferociously because I'd put so much time into my character.

It's one of the drawbacks - I saw the same kind of thing happen in DAoC to archers.

People tend to flock towards the class perceived as "uber" and the developers need to make an attempt at "balancing the gameplay". Give Blizzard a chance - I suspect that they'll do what they can to make this a good, fun to play game.

Bottom line: the nerf bat is going to swing when things get out of whack.
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« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2004, 06:10:08 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"
If anyone else (or a mob, like say maybe a warlock pet?) is attacking the warrior, they can not use it. I assume that the warlock has some type of insta-cast spell (does not need to be a damage spell). Since both the warrior and the caster have insta-cast abilities, it really becomes a matter of who gets the jump on who. If the caster reacts first, the warrior can not use charge. If the warrior reacts first, the warrior can use charge.

The problem is, cloth caster's insta-cast spells are not of the nature that they can do anything to a melee.

Warlocks get the following insta-casts:

-Curses.  Warlocks could indeed have an advantage over a tank at level 30+ as they get the Talent-based Curse of Debilitation, which lowers runspeed.  You'd have to put every single Talent point into the Affliction line to get it that early, though (which I'd been doing anyway).  Otherwise you can choose from a damage-lowering curse, (-10 points of damage is nothing when they're hitting you for triple digits), an armor-lowering curse (worthless), or a damage over time curse (which I use).

-Corruption.  If you spend five talent points in the skill, it goes from two seconds to insta-cast.  I did this and it seemed to work well.

Mages get a paltry DD insta-cast.  Of course, they also get Frost Nova, which is a PBAoE Root, and the Frost Bolt line, which snares.  Again, Warlocks have no way of stopping or slowing an enemy unless you follow a very specific Talent path to level 30ish.  Yes, you can cast Fear on the tank, but then they run around like a chicken with its head cut off... and their huge HP means your DoTs will take a LONG time to kill them.

Priests get an insta-cast DoT, I think.

There are several innate problems with casters versus tanks which have to do with PvE rules not carrying over well to PvP:

-Casters and melees, solo, can kill mobs of a given level at roughly the same speed.  This is because most mobs have a good armor class for their level and not much magic resistance--thus, while a caster is busy doing full potential damage, a melee is doing only a fraction of his potential damage as he has to contend with the mob's AC.  Thus the crux of PvE balance is in the ratio of armor class vs. magic resistance.

-There are no special rules for PvP.  For all intents and purposes, the caster is facing a level 22, 900-HP/1000-AC/0-resistance mob and the tank is facing a level 22, 400-HP/450-AC/0-resistance mob.  Damage is dealt exactly like PvE.  The melee's attack rating is checked versus the AC of the target and does damage appropriate if it hits--more if the attack roll is significantly better than the AC, less if it's closer to the AC.  The casters spells simply do the listed damage if they're not resisted.

-This creates a MAJOR CLEFT in damage output in PvP.  Casters will ALWAYS have a worse AC than melees--that's a staple of the genre I accept.  The thing is, melee classes' damage output is depedent on more than their weapon's listed damage (which is already more than most corresponding spells of a given level!) -- indeed, melee classes get a huge bonus in damage when attacking weak-AC targets.  Meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum, casters get NO BONUS AT ALL for casting on weak-resistance targets, aside from the spell actually hitting.  Thus there is a fundamental difference in damage calculation systems which results in an utterly unfair, totally unbalanced PvP system.

SOLUTION:  There are several options.

1.)  Mimic Evequest.  All damage spells have their average damage doubled.  Spells with damage or duration ranges are not all-or-nothing resist checks--partial resists can be made to reduce damage or duration proportionately.  Total resists are still allowed if the resistance is high enough and/or the caster level is low enough.  Mobs will be given resistance on par with their AC for their level to keep things fair.

RESULT:  Quick-and-dirty PvP.  Melees have to choose between bolstering their resistance, bolstering their AC, or choosing something in-between (and that choice should be required--only the best equipment should offer great AC and great resistance).  If geared for resistance, Melees can smoke casters as fast as they do now--but they'll be weak to other meleers and physical ranged attacks.  If geared for AC, melees will be smoked by casters at range as fast as they can smoke casters up close.  They will, however, be protected against physical ranged attackers, and obviously other melees.

2.)  Implement PvP-only rules that make resistance more like AC.  In short, if a melee charges at me with 0 Shadow resistance and I cast a 100-damage shadow bolt at him, that bolt needs to do 300 or more damage when it hits.  Natural resistance is, say, half your character level or less, maybe modified by spirit, or perhaps stamina.  Spell attack ratings (SARS) are equal to the caster's level (for cloth casters, at least), maybe modified by intelligence, or perhaps spirit.  This makes up for the low AC damage problem without damaging class roles in PvP--if melees can get in range, they'll own, but if they fail to, they'll die.  PvE is unchanged.  If it's not broken, don't fix it.

RESULT:  My favored solution, though it'll need tweaking and experimentation for the perfect ratios.  Casters in their element are just as deadly as melees in their element with this setup.  There will need to be a difference between cloth casters and casters like Druids and Shamen, though (assuming Shamen don't get nerfed)--cloth casters need  much better SARS than leather or chain casters get.  After all, cloth casters are the "staples" of the magic realm as much as Plate-wearing Warriors or ultra-fast Rogues are staples of the melee realm.

3.)  PvP-only melee damage divison/cap.  In short, all damage done in PvP melee combat is divided to bring it in line with same-level spell damage.  PvE is unchanged.

RESULT:  Closes the AC gap but majorly pisses off meleers.  Treats the symptom instead of curing the disease.  It's by far the easiest and quickest-to-implement fix, though.
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« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2004, 08:54:29 PM »

Interesting information LE, and well written, thanks!
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« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2004, 10:24:08 PM »

Quote from: "Ibby"
Interesting information LE, and well written, thanks!
No problem, man.
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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2004, 11:03:05 PM »

Extremely well written posts that mirror my frustrations with the caster classes in WoW in general.
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Interloper
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2004, 06:04:49 AM »

I usually play casters in all rpgs, thought I'd go rogue on this one.  So far I love it.   Did a few hours of PvP tonight.   Was hilarious to be stealthed right next to em and make /rude's and whatnot.  They look around then *blam* ambush hehe.  Great fun.

After playing a caster in daoc, I told myself I wouldn't go through that frustration again.  Someone looked at you wrong and you were dead or interupted.  Hope you have fun in EQ anywhow LE!  At least you didn't pay for this  slywink
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Falator
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« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2004, 08:38:09 PM »

My gnome warlock is really fun at level 6 Tongue
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« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2004, 11:03:38 PM »

just my .02, but i dont think bliz is focused on PvP balance at this point, LE, so it may be too hasty to judge it in that regard.    I dont know where the quote was, but essentially they are working on getting all the classes finished (I think they just changed some of the talent trees today, among other things), and once they have that finished they will worry about PvP.

Didnt they also say there are plans for PvP, which will be totally different from their current 'placeholder' PvP model?

Anyway, Im kind of avoiding Blizzard's forums, because its about half people bitching about changes, and half bitching that they need to change more.  Just remember the game is still in beta  :wink:
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The Chauffeur
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2004, 12:09:05 AM »

Yeah.. but the thing is that the game is already gold. So why in the hell would you ship an unfinished game?  

There are obviously going to be a goodly amount of changes that are going to be done to the "gold" release.

The whole bit seems very rushed out the door on a lot of levels.
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olaf
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2004, 08:19:40 AM »

They definitely favor PvE over PvP.  You can see that by how they have prioritized new content and features.  That said, they wont hesitate to nerf someting in PvP regardless of what effect it will have on PvE.

olaf
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2004, 08:59:27 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
Anyway, Im kind of avoiding Blizzard's forums, because its about half people bitching about changes, and half bitching that they need to change more.  Just remember the game is still in beta  :wink:
Like hell it is.  You're playing a free trial of the final release right now, not a beta.

Sure, it'll get patched, but honestly, Blizzard is stubborn and arrogant about going back on earlier rulings, so I honestly just see the game getting much worse before it gets any better.
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Osprey a.k.a. Gollum
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« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2004, 01:13:42 PM »

Go NE Hunter for the win...

Absolute blast to play...Nice ranged attacks, good melee.....I've played most of the classes and find this the most fun....

Also with tracking I'm going to be the bane of every rogue in PvP when I so choose to play it.. :twisted:
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Falator
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« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2004, 05:37:40 PM »

Why ne hunter? dwarf hunters sound much better (although i have only read info about them on the forums so who knows). I have also seen TONS of dwarven hunters when playing my level 10 warlock and they do seem pretty good.

Also, guns look better than bows imo Tongue
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Valhuerdi
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« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2004, 05:52:25 PM »

The guns would look infinitely better if they had a muzzle flash.

Oh, and anyone playing Horde on the beta servers... Troll Shamans are pure ownage.  They get the highest mana pool of any shaman class, regenerate fast, and can go berserk.  I almost managed to solo the Dreadmist Peak quest at level 14.  Almost.

I now understand why people are anticipating a big nerf for that class.
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Toe
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« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2004, 06:08:07 PM »

Quote from: "Falator"
Why ne hunter? dwarf hunters sound much better (although i have only read info about them on the forums so who knows). I have also seen TONS of dwarven hunters when playing my level 10 warlock and they do seem pretty good.

Also, guns look better than bows imo Tongue


Also, one of the dwarves racial traits is gun specialization. Gives a small bonus to their gun skill.
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unbreakable
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« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2004, 02:59:05 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "unbreakable"
Anyway, Im kind of avoiding Blizzard's forums, because its about half people bitching about changes, and half bitching that they need to change more.  Just remember the game is still in beta  :wink:
Like hell it is.  You're playing a free trial of the final release right now, not a beta.

Sure, it'll get patched, but honestly, Blizzard is stubborn and arrogant about going back on earlier rulings, so I honestly just see the game getting much worse before it gets any better.
Hmm, I recall seeing it billed by Blizzard as an Open Beta Stress Test.

Since it is predominantly a server based game, most of their work can be done without changing the files on the client, so while the client is in final release version, the servers and balancing are still open to change.

Anyway, Im having a blast playing, even given the really bad lag going on the last day.  But since I lived through UO beta and first six months, and also had the misfortune of living through the AO launch, any problems Blizzard is having with the 500,000+ people in their open beta pales by comparison  Cool
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