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Author Topic: Game Disucssion: Fable [Xbox]  (Read 8870 times)
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AgtFox
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« on: August 23, 2004, 03:58:20 PM »

I realize there are some Fable threads here, but some people may not read them because of some spoilers, so I thought I would start up a Fable discussion thread.

Fable of course will not be exactly what Peter Molyneaux envisioned years ago (much like Black and White and many other Molyneaux games never reached what was envisioned, but many were at least good), but I still think it will be a great game.  I can't believe the game is FINALLY coming out and I certainly hope it can reach at least an even level with KOTOR in my mind.  The Xbox desperately needs a great RPG.

So, what are your thoughts?
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 05:33:23 PM »

My thoughts are that the biggest problem with Fable (and Black and White) is Molyneaux's big mouth.  If he would keep quiet with all of his promises, then people wouldn't expect more than he can deliver.

I enjoyed B&W, and I'm really looking forward to Fable, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the fanboiz supersaturated with promises from 3 years ago start complaining that the game suxorz.
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 05:39:26 PM »

B & W was missing something crucial:  GAMEPLAY

At some point during the game I realized it would be more fun to raise my own real child rather than a graphically pretty Tamagotchi.

Let's just say I'm reserved about Fable....
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 05:40:35 PM »

I need a game to truly captivate me and I'm hoping Fable is that game.
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2004, 06:02:34 PM »

My problem with Mr. M's games are typically that they are one-trick ponies.  You can train your creature....and now I'm taking it away from you.  Now you have it back, but you've probably gotten bored by now.  Have fun!

I'm hoping that Fable is not all surface flash like B&W seemed to be for me.  If the good option and the bad option the same eventual outcome I'll be disappointed.  If everything you do truly does culminate in a different experience with a different ending (which I've heard time and time again that it does) then it'll be a knock-your-socks-off title.  In just a little bit we will know for sure...
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AgtFox
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2004, 06:47:02 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
My problem with Mr. M's games are typically that they are one-trick ponies.  You can train your creature....and now I'm taking it away from you.  Now you have it back, but you've probably gotten bored by now.  Have fun!

Well, Molyneaux had better games in the past that were more than "one trick ponies" (in my mind at least):

1. Populous
2. Syndicate
3. Dungeon Keeper

Obviously 1 and 3 also include the sequels.  I think Molyneaux's reputation has been tarnished by Black and White (I liked the game, although I understand people's qualms with it) and he needs it back with Fable and the upcoming Movies and B+W 2.
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2004, 06:48:31 PM »

I'm looking forward to The Movies more than I am to Fable.  When's the release?  Where's the threat about that?!!?   :wink:
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AgtFox
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2004, 06:50:49 PM »

Currently it is March 2005 for PC...so, in Molyneaux terms, I'd say roughly Christmastime next year or 2006.
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ingrin
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2004, 04:35:45 AM »

IGN doing 2 weeks coverage of Fable. Wow, seems they are having fun with the near final build.

Here is their first article of the series regarding being the good guy...

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/541/541281p1.html

This is the only game I am going to buy at release this year, though others will make it to my Xmas list.  Of course, I am a Molyneux fanboy, and loved B&W.
I worry about others whose expectations are probably not going to be met, specifically the Morrowind loving and loadscreen hating crowd.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2004, 02:08:58 PM »

I'm a bit surprised nothing has come up in this thread about the "censorship" of Fable that seems to be blowing up on the GG forums.  Personally I think it's being blown way out of proportion, but IGN snuck in at some point that there would be black bars when your character and a partner (I say partner because you can indeed have a same-sex relationship) have sex.
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2004, 02:50:33 PM »

I would be plenty angry about this if I was surprised. After the fiasco of Eyes Wide Shut and the "no no no" attitude of the MPAA towards on-screen sex, while people can get blown up and torn up at the same time is just sad. It's that hypocritical Puritanical Holier-Than-Thou nature of the ultra-conservatives in America that flat-out piss me off.

I'm in no way surprised that playing soccer with a person's head will be shown, but having sexual relations with someone else is blacked out all in the same game. It shows where American censors' values and opinions lay, in my opinion.

/rant off
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2004, 02:56:18 PM »

But... we're puritans!   :roll:
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2004, 03:41:52 PM »

Yea, that is really rediculous.  I think that the game is rated M so beyond that falls on the parents.
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2004, 04:04:57 PM »

Just be thankful that they aren't making the semen green. Tongue
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2004, 04:07:58 PM »

I don't think that it's that big of a deal.  It's not like it's going to change gameplay or detract from the gameplay.  Did anyone complain about the pixelation in the Sims?

Besides...when I think about this, I think about "Singles: Flirt Up Your Life"...and that just seemed kind of creepy.
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2004, 04:27:40 PM »

Quote from: "Simon"
Just be thankful that they aren't making the semen green. Tongue


bad bad visual
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2004, 05:33:53 PM »

And here I thought the only Peter M. game I had played was Black & White...thanks for the little list, AgtFox!  Syndicate is one of the downright coolest games I have ever played and I didn't realize it was a Peter M. game!
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2004, 03:22:26 AM »

My hopes/expectations for Fable have been on a roller coaster. A looong, slow, drawn out one, but a roller coaster nonetheless.

At first I was very excited about the project ("Molyneaux's big mouth"). Then as the scope, or reach if you will, was scaled back I was beginning to get a little uneasy. Now however, it appears as though it may turn out OK after all, although it might not be as ambitious as the original concept (Surprise!).

Just going on my own personal experience with the games listed in this thread, Peter is 3-1-0. You could say 5-1-0 if you count the sequels, and since I enjoyed them too, I will. So I'm (still) cautiously optimistic. He knows how to make a good (sometimes great) game, it's just that his reach exceeds his grasp, sometimes.

Or maybe that's the other way 'round....  :?: :roll:

Whatever. It's late & I need sleep.
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2004, 02:34:18 PM »

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6621/Fable-Online-World-Exclusive-Review

This Friday! smile
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2004, 02:50:56 PM »

world-exclusive bullcrap from IGN....

/grumble
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2004, 03:10:15 PM »

To be honest, Team Xbox, although paid for by IGN pretty much runs its own ship.  Some of their writers are marginal, but some are very good...probably better at writing than their IGN counterparts.

Hilary's IGN review will probably be over 10 pages long while Team Xbox will probably be able to condense it into 5 pages.  I'm just guessing though.  I'm going to guess that this game is going to score high if Microsoft is allowing them to release a review this far ahead of time.
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2004, 05:03:13 PM »

A 9.3 from IGN

A 9.1 from Team Xbox

I have not read them yet, they are both 8 pages long, so I was wrong about IGN being the bigger one.  They are 2 totally different reviews, IGN by Hilary and Team Xbox by Rob ("Horus")

So read them and come back and discuss...
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2004, 05:16:38 PM »

OK...I've read through the Team Xbox review.  Big things are that he feels the game is a breakthrough, but that it will have to take the crticism of having a "by the book" storyline and the short length of play (he says 10-12 hours to finish the 22 required quests, maybe pushing beyond that a few hours taking the side quests).

He does call it the best looking RPG on Xbox though, but the review itself seems too long-winded.  I mean, I love to know all about the game, but let's shorten the review a bit.

I'm off to read Hilary's take...I expect much the same kind of review with ongoing explaination...it is 8 pages after all.
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2004, 05:30:52 PM »

OK...read Hilary's take.  His is the better written review as he doesn't sound like he's just spouting out information on the game, he's giving it a very personal feel.

He talks a lot about Fable being a game of layers.  Sure, you can speed through the game in under 10 hours, but there is a lot to do in the land and he thinks people that want to be immersed in the game will spend close to or over the 40 hours of games like KOTOR or the Final Fantasy games have.

His closing is spot on though:

"The ultimate question must be asked since Peter Molyneux proposed the idea several times during Fable's development: Is this the greatest RPG of all time? No. No, it's not even the best RPG on Xbox (KOTOR's engaging story retains that crown). Okay, so it's not the greatest RPG ever, but I have to say it's one of my personal favorites. I really dig playing Fable, even multiple times. I know that some folks will be disappointed, that some will complain about what isn't there, but I still had a lot of fun and marvel at how involved I have become in my hero's life."

I think that will be telling for many people on the fence about this game.  Another thing is that I guess revival potions are everywhere and the actual quests are easy as cake.

Anyway, discuss...
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2004, 05:35:45 PM »

Good to see some reviews!  I'm not one who enjoys or ever finished 100 hour long games, so I'm actually glad to see that it can be played quickly.  Sounds like Beyond Good & Evil - very well done, but a little short.  

I'm really looking forward to it.  

p.s. Knowing Molyneux, there may well be hidden things in the game that the reviewers don't even know about, or that don't appear until the game has been installed for 100 days, or something along those lines.  We'll see, I suppose.
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2004, 05:40:36 PM »

Here's a part from Hilary's review on the length and secret stuff:

"There's a hidden area that few will ever find, secret weapons, talking Demon Doors with riddles and challenges that must be solved, even a few hidden quests. And once you finish the game, you can keep playing in the world of Albion. You won't get new quests (unless you find a hidden ones), but you can continue to search for Easter eggs and play around in the towns."

He says earlier in the review that there are such things as time-sensitive events, hidden chests, etc.
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2004, 05:46:57 PM »

Read the IGN review and skimmed over teamxbox's real quick...basically it told me everything I expected.  I, for one, am glad it isn't a huge 50 hour game to complete.  I tend to take my time with games, so even though it supposedly takes 15-20 hours to beat the main quest (without much side-quests and whatnot), I'll feel compelled to do some of the side-quests and whatnot so it could last anywhere from 30-40 hours or so.  I'm glad the physical aspect of the hero worked out well, too.  I remember that when Morrowind first came out for PC how flooded the GG forums got and everyone was posting a pic of their character - it'll be that varied and I'm excited about that.  

I'm also glad that they say the game is easy.  With so many revival potions lying around - that's a plus, in my eyes.  Plus, man, the whole scar and tattoo thing is awesome.  That's one thing that I think lacks in RPGs - real character customization.  Seeing my character receive a scar and seeing it years later, for instance, gives it a bit of personality.

I don't remember Hilary going much into how it really played.  Clunkiness of controls, etc.  Maybe I missed that...

The world itself looks very nice and will be fun to play in.  Nice review!
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2004, 05:57:24 PM »

The Team Xbox review went into detail a bit on the control scheme (They said it was really good).

I'm happy too, alot of people who were hyped up about features that were dropped aren't going to be happy.  Alot of people who think an RPG must be > XX hours aren't going to be happy.
I'm happy, quite happy, I just placed a pre-order in fact.  I was a little disappointed that it was implied features I was certain would be in the game weren't (Dragon, you starting fashion trends, etc... I'm not ever sure it has 4 endings anymore).
Ohh, and yes, shorter play time makes me happy as well, especially a game such as this that I intend to play through with a variety of characters,
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2004, 06:01:11 PM »

Short=IN!

Another question though: Why are reviews starting to creep up earlier and earlier? It seemed like just a few months ago when an EARLY review would be posted the night before a release. This game isn't due for almost 3 weeks (9/14) and the reviews are coming in now. What's up with that?
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2004, 06:46:09 PM »

Quote from: "Devil"
Another question though: Why are reviews starting to creep up earlier and earlier? It seemed like just a few months ago when an EARLY review would be posted the night before a release. This game isn't due for almost 3 weeks (9/14) and the reviews are coming in now. What's up with that?


Confidence in the final product?  I would imagine it is just to pump the hype and show people, "Hey, despite all the stuff we cut, it's still a great game!"

Whenever I don't see a review until release day it makes me wonder.  Especially after the Driv3r fiasco.  Kind of like when a film is not screened for critics ahead of release.  Get as many suckers to buy in early, before bad word of mouth.
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2004, 08:48:26 PM »

The dirty little secret in the videogame industry is companies like Microsoft, Electronic Arts, Capcom, Nintendo and Sony have their major games done well ahead of time and often many of them have stock to stores days before release (or in the case of Capcom, usually a week before).

Fable isn't the best case, but major stuff is usually done over a month ahead of time.  You may not hear about the "gold announcement" for several weeks after the game is done, this allows them to get a good deal of disc production done beforehand because many of these companies own their own disc production facilities.  Then the stuff is sent out and usually arrives at places days ahead of schedule for rollout on release day.

This is how things like Project Gotham Racing 2 get sold on a Saturday versus its Tuesday release date as most places had product by Thursday or Friday.  Fable will most likely be in store days before release...you may even be lucky as to have it early.
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« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2004, 01:04:10 AM »

Is that how you were able to have a Crimson Skies review so far ahead of other sites?
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« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2004, 03:05:20 AM »

Now if the game is done and the hype has been built, why not get the game out there ASAP?

The IGN review will be old news by the time the game hits stores. It almost defeats the purpose. The buildup is one thing, but final reviews out a month early kinda gets gets me looking past it already.
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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2004, 05:39:42 PM »

Quote from: "ingrin"
Is that how you were able to have a Crimson Skies review so far ahead of other sites?

No, I think Ron was given the go-ahead to do a review at the time he did one.

I'm talking strictly of when retail places get copies here.
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« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2004, 12:23:54 AM »

Actually Agtfox, unless things have changed a lot in the past year or two, game companies usually don't get their product to stores that early.

Most stores and companies get their games the day of via overnight shipping. Some lucky place in the larger markets see product before hand. Not saying you wrong, but it's rare when a game gets in store before the release date. Stores can't be trusted to not break street dates.

Sometimes the retailers will even stock the title in their Distribution center prior to release. It's why Big Box stores don't get the games on the shelves for a couple days after the official street date.
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« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2004, 01:54:58 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
I'm in no way surprised that playing soccer with a person's head will be shown, but having sexual relations with someone else is blacked out all in the same game. It shows where American censors' values and opinions lay, in my opinion.

/rant off


Just like the last election; the american people voted Gore over Bush. slywink

errr... and then got Bush. who then brought gore.  :roll:

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SAFETY DISCLAIMER : As to the note above; it's a play on words, not a political debate. Puns *ARE* allowed. Tongue

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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2004, 09:16:24 PM »

I'm going to try like hell to stay objective on this, but WHAT THE HELL?!?!?

I'm reading this and see for starters the review is a 9.3. Alright, I'll take that from the top. Then I start reading....

Overall, the guy liked it. It sounds like Fable is "My First Adventure" combining Zelda like gameplay with Animal Crossing style world-involvement. One thing the reviewer points out again and again is that NPCs have limited interactions, yet if you pester them enough then they say something different. Apparently. The plus being all the vocal work, which I can imagine adds tons to the believability of the game.

That being said, it's when the reviewer starts pointing out all that's actually there that I began to realize all that was missing.  I've not been following Fable's development, as when it first started it wasn't something I was interested in, hence I ignored it. Recently my curiosity has been piqued, but here's the thing:

Quote
And then there are the optional quests themselves, which break the entire idea of "consequences" in Fable. Let's say you take an optional quest to help someone get to a certain location. If that person should die during the quest, you immediately fail it and your only option is to retry the quest. That's right, you can't just fail and lose renown, you must actually redo the quest again. That's just plain stupid. If the idea is to make me feel like I am constantly fighting to be a hero, then failure has to be a part of the equation. If I fail at a quest, it would make more sense to drop my renown and put pressure on me to boast and succeed in my next quest to redeem myself. At least give the option to either redo the quest or to let the results stand. I can understand a lot of things left out of Fable, but that's one design choice I can't comprehend.


That right there in a game based around the ideas of choice and actual role-playing would be a game-breaker. This is a game where you have to deal with the consequences of your actions, but if you let someone die on a timed mission then you have to re-do the quest??!?! The world miraculously resets and it never happened, until you succeed? What happens if he dies, and the next guy I try to save won't let me because I let a buddy of his get eaten while en route from a nearby town? With the scale of this game, and how your actions affect reactions to you, how bloody hard would this small thing have been to put or leave in?!?

And if you have all kinds of heal potions available, that brings death to mind - from the sound of it, you can't die with one of these potions on you, let alone 15. Where's the challenge in that?

So this game scores so high based on graphics and ambition? To this I say, "Bah!"

Note: Moved from my other thread as I have a hard time reading while half asleep. smile
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« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2004, 12:05:46 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
And if you have all kinds of heal potions available, that brings death to mind - from the sound of it, you can't die with one of these potions on you, let alone 15. Where's the challenge in that?


It looks like for some reason the Full Spectrum Warrior syndrome strikes again. First AvP, now this.  If I wanted mickey mouse gloves on my entertainment, I'd go to disney world.

It's $#it like this post (damn you whiteboy) that piss me off. Tongue I don't wanna hear good or bad; I didn't read the review I just looked at the scores.  I wanna be surprised and happy with the game; not disappointed before the product is even available. Fable is SOOO hyped it didn't need these sites reviewing them 3 weeks in advance, DAMMIT.

I'm hoping it's a misinterpretation from IGN(such as the quests being key to the story); they've got their own heads so far up their asses that I doubt it's possible for them to see the screen without the combination of  relaxing their  sphincter, a small hand mirror, and the  liberal use of a 12" anal Speculum.  :evil:

I'll trust it when I see it from a real review site. (CG guys?? any time soon?)

IGN 'Game Review', my ass*.

*sorry, couldn't resist the pun
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« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2004, 11:13:05 AM »

Those reviews bolster my confidence in Fable even with all the content that didn't make it into the game.  I tried not to set my expectations too high when I heard the list of all the intial features, so when not everything made it in there was a little disappointment, but not entirely unexpected.

Other than the restart the quest deal, it sounds as if everything else works pretty well and the game looks to be a lot of fun to play.  As long as I'm left with a good, solid RPG (which is nice for the XBox ),  I'm a happy camper.
Count me in!
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« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2004, 09:24:54 PM »

Gamespot: 8.6

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/fable/review.html

About what I expected.
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