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Author Topic: Further idiocy from someone inside Sony  (Read 1755 times)
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Arkon
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« on: June 22, 2006, 12:22:43 PM »

http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/tech/gamesandgadgets/10292828.html

Quote
TheStreet.com: The general reaction to Sony's presentation at E3 this year seemed to be disappointment. How did the company view it internally?

Jack Tretton: We were really pleased.

If we were trying to do a PR blitz on our announcements, we would have perceived it a little bit differently. But we really saw this as an opportunity to announce some very important details to the trade. And I think if you ask the trade, meaning the retail constituency and the third parties, they came away pretty pleased with how everything went.

But what about the reaction of the consumers and the consumer press?

We are in the process of reaching out to the consumers to try to explain what our platform's all about and why they're going to want one between that May and November time frame. But I think six months out of any platform launch, it's a little bit early in terms of being able to roll out all the details


Do they live in a bubble... who exactly came away pleased with the PS3 presentation other than Sony?

Quote
Last time around, your company had several exclusives on the Grand Theft Auto franchise, which many folks feel was the killer app for the PS2. You're not going to have that advantage this time around. How much does that hurt you?

There's no question that having the Grand Theft Auto franchise helped us a lot and helped us sell some units, but I don't think the battle would be any different with or without Grand Theft Auto.

If you look at our first-party library and the franchises that we've brought to market over the course of PlayStation 2, we have a very formidable first-party library of exclusive software that will help define us.

So are you saying that not having an exclusive on Grand Theft Auto doesn't hurt you at all?

No, I don't think it hurts us. No, I really don't.


Maybe Sony will package the PS3 with some of the crack they are smoking sheesh.  That must be why the system costs so much...

GTA was a system seller for the PS2 because of it being exclusive.  Not being exclusive wouldn't have put Xbox ahead of the PS2 but it would have closed the gap in market share most certainly.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 01:05:44 PM »

Sony is going down in flames and none of them seem to realize it. What boggles my mind is just how disastrous the showing at E3 was, how disastrous everything Sony is doing now regarding the PS3 is, and yet their top honchos keep saying everyone is pleased as punch with it. If they said this but behind the scenes were making changes here and there to right the ship I could understand it. But instead they're plowing headlong into one iceberg after another thinking the Sony namebrand is a magic shield that will eternally protect them from harm.

And Sony, why not try asking the consumers whether or not they were pleased with the PS3 showings lately? To a one they'd say you were flying high on drugs. Even the hardest of the hardcore fanboys have been given pause, if only slightly, and Nintendo is going to seriously clean your clock come fall.

/reality check
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Dafones
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 02:46:40 PM »

I'm not sure if they can say anything else. It's that guy's job to make things seem good, even if they aren't. No one from Sony is going to say openly that things are fucked.


There's also a quote on the front page, regarding Sony's catch-up position with the 360, that I don't quite understand. The guy said that the PS2 wasn't the first to the marketplace, but as far as I remember, it was first, and was out something like a year before the Xbox and Cube. What console do they think came first, the Dreamcast? Is that a fair point?
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 02:53:46 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
There's also a quote on the front page, regarding Sony's catch-up position with the 360, that I don't quite understand. The guy said that the PS2 wasn't the first to the marketplace, but as far as I remember, it was first, and was out something like a year before the Xbox and Cube. What console do they think came first, the Dreamcast? Is that a fair point?

It was at the time.  The Dreamcast launched in Sept 1999 and had graphics that completely blew the original Playstation and N64 out of the water and it shipped with a modem for online play.  It was the console to beat.  No one thought Sega would beat Sony but at the time it was the only competition and Sega had been first to the market with a next-generation system.  Nintendo's only console at the time was the N64 and Microsoft hadn't launched the Xbox yet.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 03:49:38 PM »

I think the issue with Sega is that they'd turned a lot of people off by racing to be first on the market with hardware that proved to be poorly conceived and unsupported.  I can't guess at what percentage of people might have passed on the Dreamcast because they'd been burned by becoming an early adopter of the Sega CD, the 32x, or the Saturn, but after watching Sega release three failed platforms in a row, I had zero interest in the Dreamcast.

By contrast, both Sony and Microsoft have strong reputations in the gaming market that are fairly untarnished.  There have been a few missteps like the PS2's hard drive, and some people might question the success of the PSP, but overall, consumers could reasonably expect that both companies know how to build a successful console.

I think there's a sizeable portion of the market who *would* be willing to pickup a PS3 based solely on the namebrand.  What I can't predict is how many of them actually *are* willing to pay $500-$600 for something that, at best, isn't any better than the $400 Microsoft console that's already available.  Exclusive game franchises are the best way to convince people to make that price jump, so Sony is just trying to spin their little hearts out when they try to claim that losing their lock on Grand Theft Auto IV isn't going to sting.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2006, 05:30:58 PM »

Quote from: "Autistic Angel"
I think the issue with Sega is that they'd turned a lot of people off by racing to be first on the market with hardware that proved to be poorly conceived and unsupported.  I can't guess at what percentage of people might have passed on the Dreamcast because they'd been burned by becoming an early adopter of the Sega CD, the 32x, or the Saturn, but after watching Sega release three failed platforms in a row, I had zero interest in the Dreamcast.


That's why I passed it up.  And in hindsight I regret not getting one, but oh well.  Really, they failed to maintain a good reputation, and it bit them in the ass.

Quote
By contrast, both Sony and Microsoft have strong reputations in the gaming market that are fairly untarnished.  There have been a few missteps like the PS2's hard drive, and some people might question the success of the PSP, but overall, consumers could reasonably expect that both companies know how to build a successful console.

I think there's a sizeable portion of the market who *would* be willing to pickup a PS3 based solely on the namebrand.  What I can't predict is how many of them actually *are* willing to pay $500-$600 for something that, at best, isn't any better than the $400 Microsoft console that's already available.  Exclusive game franchises are the best way to convince people to make that price jump, so Sony is just trying to spin their little hearts out when they try to claim that losing their lock on Grand Theft Auto IV isn't going to sting.

-Autistic Angel


I'm not going to bag too much on Sony, since they do have a good reputation.  I see the PSP as a good product, but about my real complaint about them is their historical tendency to try pushing their technology standards by forcing it on their customers (Memory Stick, for example).
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Big Jake
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2006, 05:32:08 PM »

whiteboyskim, I may have a disagreement with you on how hamrful Sony's idiot talking heads have been.  I would bet a full 80% of the market for a new console this coming christmas are absolutely unaware of the horrible showing at E3, all the bullshit that Sony has been throwing around, or even that they are going to be charged an arm and a leg.  'Going down in flames' for a multi-billion dollar company over what is rampant hatred & disapproval from a bunch of pasty faced geeks is way too strong of wording.  The non-seeking of feedback from 'consumers' over E3 is a joke: E3 is just for geeks, and home consumer electronics is a MUCH more gigantic market than us.

Now, as for a very real possibility that this christmas Jane Consumer will be standing in a store, look at the PS3 at $600, and the Xbox for $350, I can't figure out how Sony doesn't realize that WILL kill them.  Perhaps brand loyalty is that strong in Japan.  Someone needs to point them to GM in the '70's.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 12:24:05 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
whiteboyskim, I may have a disagreement with you on how hamrful Sony's idiot talking heads have been.  I would bet a full 80% of the market for a new console this coming christmas are absolutely unaware of the horrible showing at E3, all the bullshit that Sony has been throwing around, or even that they are going to be charged an arm and a leg.  'Going down in flames' for a multi-billion dollar company over what is rampant hatred & disapproval from a bunch of pasty faced geeks is way too strong of wording.  The non-seeking of feedback from 'consumers' over E3 is a joke: E3 is just for geeks, and home consumer electronics is a MUCH more gigantic market than us.

Now, as for a very real possibility that this christmas Jane Consumer will be standing in a store, look at the PS3 at $600, and the Xbox for $350, I can't figure out how Sony doesn't realize that WILL kill them.  Perhaps brand loyalty is that strong in Japan.  Someone needs to point them to GM in the '70's.


Forget Gm, all they need do is go back ten years and see what they did to Nintendo and Sega.
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EddieA
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 12:37:39 AM »

Would you really expect a representative of any company to objectively analyze their situation?  I would imagine Sony's management knows that E3 didn't go well, and that losing their GTA exclusivity window is a big deal, but why would they tell other people that?  It's their job to put a postive spin on things; not to be objective.
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Arkon
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 11:00:08 AM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
Would you really expect a representative of any company to objectively analyze their situation?  I would imagine Sony's management knows that E3 didn't go well, and that losing their GTA exclusivity window is a big deal, but why would they tell other people that?  It's their job to put a postive spin on things; not to be objective.


Actually I would expect them to just shut up instead of digging the hole even deeper.
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Dafones
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 02:47:17 PM »

It was an interview quoted above. Can't stop the press, man.
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Arkon
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2006, 02:59:35 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
It was an interview quoted above. Can't stop the press, man.


Sure you can, you decline the interview, or you word things a bit better.

Instead of saying that not having an exclusive with GTA won't hurt, acknowledge that it has the potential to hurt, then sell why the game, while not exclusive will be better on the PS3 than it will be on the 360.  Give people a reason to still get it for the PS3 despite it not being exclusive.

Instead of ignoring the customers reactions over E3, address the reactions, explain any misunderstandings those of us not in the industry may have.  Instead of making comments like "The PS3 is priced too cheap" to make us think we are getting a bargain.  Sony has done no damage control whatsoever, instead they have added coals to the fire.  Now we find out that Sony's Blue Ray player has been delayed until October... there is trouble in the air and everyone but Sony sees it.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2006, 03:25:57 PM »

I think Sony's best bet is to have an enormous number of PS3s available this Christmas, and ask Nintendo and Microsoft nicely if they would please have massive shortages of Wiis and 360s this holiday season.
+
Oh, and somehow land an exclusive "on blu ray only" release of a remastered original version star wars trilogy.
+
And include a free George Foreman grill.
+
And confuse people on the sticker price with labelling that says,
"PS3: only seven easy payments of $99.99!"
= successful PS3 launch
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Pyperkub
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2006, 06:49:31 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
whiteboyskim, I may have a disagreement with you on how hamrful Sony's idiot talking heads have been.  I would bet a full 80% of the market for a new console this coming christmas are absolutely unaware of the horrible showing at E3, all the bullshit that Sony has been throwing around, or even that they are going to be charged an arm and a leg.  'Going down in flames' for a multi-billion dollar company over what is rampant hatred & disapproval from a bunch of pasty faced geeks is way too strong of wording.  The non-seeking of feedback from 'consumers' over E3 is a joke: E3 is just for geeks, and home consumer electronics is a MUCH more gigantic market than us.

Now, as for a very real possibility that this christmas Jane Consumer will be standing in a store, look at the PS3 at $600, and the Xbox for $350, I can't figure out how Sony doesn't realize that WILL kill them.  Perhaps brand loyalty is that strong in Japan.  Someone needs to point them to GM in the '70's.


3 more notes:

1. the geeks at E3 are what would be the early adopters, and the ones who would pre-order.  they are the initial evangelists.  A bad rep with them will harm their sales.

2. User education - which unit is joe consumer going to buy?  HDMI?  Bluetooth?  Blue-Ray?  Why do I need to know this for my kid to play games?  Does the unit include the $100 (retail) HDMI cable, or an HDMI-DVI adaptor, or Component HD as well?

3. It's all about the games.  Here is where Sony is stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Nintendo has already grabbed the pre-teen family market.  MS will have their second generation of games out, with a significant amount  of exclusive content (don't forget Live Arcade is also 'exclusive content') as well as an extremely significant price point differential.  And an HD-DVD addon.  All of which can probably be had in one bundle for less than the PS3 premium.  Early EA games (based on reports) are also going to be ports of 360 games, and even if they could look better, might not be for years, if ever.
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2006, 08:51:35 PM »

Quote
1. the geeks at E3 are what would be the early adopters, and the ones who would pre-order. they are the initial evangelists. A bad rep with them will harm their sales.


Again, I disagree.  What us geeks think, say, do, etc. does not mean jack shit.   No one gives a rats ass what we think. The few lost sales form negative geek feedback is a drop in the ocean of the consumer market that Sony is marketing to.
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2006, 09:11:06 PM »

Quote from: "wonderpug"
I think Sony's best bet is to have an enormous number of PS3s available this Christmas, and ask Nintendo and Microsoft nicely if they would please have massive shortages of Wiis and 360s this holiday season.
+
Oh, and somehow land an exclusive "on blu ray only" release of a remastered original version star wars trilogy.
+
And include a free George Foreman grill.
+
And confuse people on the sticker price with labelling that says,
"PS3: only seven easy payments of $99.99!"
= successful PS3 launch


A PS3 infomercial... I like it!  They can get a few washed-up actors to host it, and use the always popular "but wait... THERE'S MORE!!!!" line.

"Sony teams up with Home Shopping Channel"... I can see it now!
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2006, 09:20:11 PM »

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......and why they're going to want one between that May and November time frame


Complete, unadulterated arrogance.

"Here.....buy this Platinum Plated Shit on a Stick!!!!!.  But it's PLATINUM PLATED!"
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EddieA
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2006, 11:50:10 PM »

How is promoting your product arrogant?  Nintendo and Microsoft also talk up their products and put down their competitors - why would Sony be any different?
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2006, 11:59:56 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Quote
1. the geeks at E3 are what would be the early adopters, and the ones who would pre-order. they are the initial evangelists. A bad rep with them will harm their sales.


Again, I disagree.  What us geeks think, say, do, etc. does not mean jack shit.   No one gives a rats ass what we think. The few lost sales form negative geek feedback is a drop in the ocean of the consumer market that Sony is marketing to.


Untrue - where do you think people go for reviews first now?  Who's writing the early reviews?  If the buzz on teh internet is that the PS3 is an overrated overpriced hunk of developmental technology with bad games, do you really think that won't get out to the mainstream?  Dan Rather might be able to tell you a little about the power of negative internet feedback.
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2006, 01:45:51 AM »

I'm really not sure.  I don't think early buzz is going to matter too much in this case, especially since there aren't even any game announcements, and not too much solid info on the console itself.  Heck, they aren't even finished creating it yet.

If nothing else, I think the early negative buzz is only hurting Sony's stock.  Having said that, I think if, right now, you gave people a choice between the Wii and the PS3, a lot of people might pick the Wiii due to it's very positive press.

But does a majority of gamers even read magazines, or go to gaming websites?  I guess I'm not sure about that one.  Personally, I suspect a whole lot of people are 'out of the loop'.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2006, 02:09:10 AM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
How is promoting your product arrogant?  Nintendo and Microsoft also talk up their products and put down their competitors - why would Sony be any different?


Because Sony is telling us why we want one.  How about letting us make up our own mind? (which we have and it's not favorable)
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EddieA
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2006, 05:40:36 AM »

"Because Sony is telling us why we want one. How about letting us make up our own mind?"
You make Sony sound like an impartial third party that is trying to be fair to all sides.  The point of advertising and PR is to tell people why they should buy your product and not your competitor's product.
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2006, 10:20:55 AM »

Quote from: "Pyperkub"
Quote from: "Big Jake"
Quote
1. the geeks at E3 are what would be the early adopters, and the ones who would pre-order. they are the initial evangelists. A bad rep with them will harm their sales.


Again, I disagree.  What us geeks think, say, do, etc. does not mean jack shit.   No one gives a rats ass what we think. The few lost sales form negative geek feedback is a drop in the ocean of the consumer market that Sony is marketing to.


Untrue - where do you think people go for reviews first now?  Who's writing the early reviews?  If the buzz on teh internet is that the PS3 is an overrated overpriced hunk of developmental technology with bad games, do you really think that won't get out to the mainstream?  Dan Rather might be able to tell you a little about the power of negative internet feedback.


I would guess that most people who go to reviews ARE the geeks.  So geeks writing for geeks.  Most people (at least the ones I see in Walmart)  pick up the game and look at the cool picture on the front.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2006, 12:01:30 PM »

Thank you canuck, you beat me to it.  Pyperkub, many review sites have repeatedly pointed out that horrible games that have a licensed name sell tons.  AGAIN, do you really think Betty Housewife (which studies have repeatedly shown is the bulk of the game-buying demographic) checks out Gamerankings before buying a game?  Hell no.  AS Canuck pointed out, she'll look at the box, and if it has a name she recognizes, she will buy.
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Dafones
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2006, 02:54:39 PM »

He he, I have to laugh, because I guess we're the ones that partially disseminate "buzz" into the mainstream through our less, shall we say, dedicated gaming friends. Most of my buddies, and many of my co-workers, play games - we all grew up on them, it's not a "geek" thing - but I doubt most of them follow games regularily on the net. So anytime we talk about games - "did you hear about this one?" "have you played that one?" - any info I know from websites or E3 rumblings, for instance, will make it's way out subtly. (It'd be cruel to assault their simple little minds with all of the stuff we read online.) So that's how the info we pick up and talk about does make its way into the masses.

I guess.
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