http://gamingtrend.com
November 24, 2014, 01:42:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Free content will now be withheld from Xbox Live Silver accounts for a week  (Read 7465 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Hrothgar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1536


Do you Talk Strategy?


View Profile WWW
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2007, 05:13:08 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 05, 2007, 04:56:19 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 05, 2007, 04:48:29 AM

I will say that I find all of the "what's one week?  Big deal!" comments humorous considering how much gamers bitch if they have to wait an additional day to get their hands on a hot game.  After all of the cries of agony about the unfairness of street dates with the leaked released of Bioshock and Mass Effect, I have to say that we gamers aren't exactly a patient lot....
problem with that analogy is that you're comparing a demo to a full retail game, which is very different IMO.  most demos these days literally last only like 10-15 minutes, so I really couldn't care less about them.  I mean I'll download one every now and then if I randomly come across it in the Marketplace or PSN Store, but I sure as hell don't wait on any the second they come out
That's you, but then places like Fileplanet fight hard to get 24 hour or weekend exclusivity on the big PC demos.  Clearly it makes a difference in their bottom line, and they also provide differing services to paid subscribers.

In general, I support Live because it's been good for gaming.  I don't think this is a good move, but it's not a killer.
Logged

Cheers,
Hrothgar
Live gamertag & PSN name: HrothgarGG
I'm updating my website again.

"No, not alone."  -- War, Darksiders
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2007, 05:27:23 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 05, 2007, 04:56:19 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 05, 2007, 04:48:29 AM

I will say that I find all of the "what's one week?  Big deal!" comments humorous considering how much gamers bitch if they have to wait an additional day to get their hands on a hot game.  After all of the cries of agony about the unfairness of street dates with the leaked released of Bioshock and Mass Effect, I have to say that we gamers aren't exactly a patient lot....

problem with that analogy is that you're comparing a demo to a full retail game, which is very different IMO.  most demos these days literally last only like 10-15 minutes, so I really couldn't care less about them.  I mean I'll download one every now and then if I randomly come across it in the Marketplace or PSN Store, but I sure as hell don't wait on any the second they come out

Ah, but if demos weren't in such high demand they wouldn't have to be restricted to Gold only customers for a week to conserve bandwith, would they icon_wink
Logged
JCC
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 2376


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2007, 05:38:49 AM »

I am sure this will annoy me at some point, but I get the logic behind it from Microsoft's point of view. I'll just have to wait a week. It certainly won't motivate me to go Gold. I just can't pay for multiplayer when I haven't had to for so long (MMO's aside - which I am no longer willing to pay a monthly fee for either btw). It seems like if there is a demo or some other DLC I'm just dying for and can't bear to wait for 7 days to get, I'll look for one of those 48 hours of Gold for free promotional deals or something. 
Logged

-John

XBox Live ID: "JCC Davros"
TheMissingLink
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 6235


TML, for short.


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 05, 2007, 04:29:26 AM

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 04:07:16 AM

My question is, why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?  Simply put, people who don't care to play games online are being hurt by losing out on "free" content for a week.  End of the world?  Not really.  Spitting in the face of those who are most likely on their 2nd or 3rd 360 already, and don't pay to play games online?  Definitely.

jeez, chill the F out.  if you don't have Gold, then you're already not paying a cent for anything...and yes, all the demos and stuff are still completely free, so there's no need to put it in quotation marks whatsoever.  one week, big f'in whoop

with no Gold subscription to cancel or anything, what are you going to do in protest, sell your entire 360?  lol

I currently have a Gold subscription.  And to protest I've already "canceled" (because you cannot choose to cancel through your account, so I had to change my CC information to false information) my Gold subscription that will be running up next month.  I don't find any of the 360 exclusives to be particularly interesting, and if a multiplatform demo comes out, chances are that it'll be released on PSN before the 7-day mandate is up via the Xbox Live Marketplace.

Which brings me to my next point: the Xbox Live Marketplace.  Marketplace, defined in the dictionary is "An open area or square in a town where a public market or sale is set up."  By that very definition, it is no longer a "marketplace."  It's not a public market anymore - how about the Xbox Live Clubhouse.  Pay a fee to join, and one day a week the filthy commoners can come in and play a round of golf.  It's not really a Marketplace anymore.  It's sort of like going to a Farmer's Market, browsing a delicious fruit stand and wanting to taste a tangerine.  Except, you didn't pay the fee to get in, so they're going to mail a sample to you...and it should arrive in 7 days.

Basically, I think it's pretty crappy for those gamers who aren't interested in playing multiplayer games online, and obviously, don't pay for the Gold subscription.  I don't think that point can be refuted.

Quote from: Calvin
Of course not-Sony is perfect, MS is the evil empire, and Sony and the fantastically successful PS3 is simply misunderstood.

Sony isn't perfect.  Microsoft isn't the evil empire.  Sony and the increasingly successful PS3 is improving in nearly every facet.

Quote from: Calvin
No matter that the PSN is so slow it borders on absurd.

Over the past month, I haven't had any download problems.  Maybe I get in before the majority of other users, maybe they've improved that functionality, I don't know.  I haven't experienced the slow downloading that Calvin has (I'm not refuting that, man, I know you go through it, I'm just saying I haven't experienced it in quite awhile).

Quote from: Calvin
No matter that the voice chat is almost completely broken.

Ever since I got the Eye with the built-in mic, I have no problem communicating people online.  I wish it had the ability to get into voice chat with people during gaming, and with their improved video chat, it looks as if that's in the future.  And they upgrade their firmware quite often with actual improvements (*cough* friend of a friend *cough*).

Quote from: Calvin
No matter that they mandate only ONE DAY PER WEEK to release new content, and that its much less in both demos and content than what you get on Live.

Yeah, man, I don't get this.  Maybe they'll introduce a better way of putting things online when there's more stuff to put online.

Quote from: Calvin
It's free, ergo it must be superior.

I'm not saying it's superior.  We both know this.  Hell, we get into Xbox Live chat to play games and talk to each other.  I'm just glad I'm not forced into paying to play online multiplayer-enabled games online.  It's a nice perk, don't you agree?

Quote from: Calvin
And it's not evil MS, who took that whole billion dollar loss because they wanted all our consoles to break.

Microsoft took a whole billion dollar loss because their consoles do break.  They probably could have spent half of that before the 360 launched, designing an actual console that doesn't overheat, malfunction, or set anything on fire (strike the last one from the record, that was the original Xbox).

---

Again, aside from all this talk about the unworthy, unwieldy and downright horrendously free Playstation Store, I'm just frustrated at this move by Microsoft.  Fundamentally, taking something away from an already restricted membership level to promote an upgrade to paid membership is a nasty move by any company.  Rather than do that, give Gold membership something worth paying for.  (and if somebody quotes this last paragraph and types "The ability to download free content seven days before non-paying members", I quit life)
Logged

TheMissingLink on PSN
KePoW
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1877


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2007, 06:14:20 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on December 05, 2007, 05:10:49 AM

Quote from: Brendan on December 05, 2007, 01:55:10 AM

People who are unwilling to pay $5 a month for gold access can, I suspect, wait 7 days to get a demo.

It could also be said that people who are dumb enough to pay for online content will....be content to know that they're getting something for their money?  Hmm that didn't come out the way it sounded in my head smile

what kind of 'online content'?

stuff like Rock Band DLC songs/tracks?  that's a great use of my entertainment money
Logged
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2007, 06:17:33 AM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Microsoft took a whole billion dollar loss because their consoles do break.

No, Microsoft allocated up to a billion dollars for warranty repairs.  If we spend 500 million repairing consoles, the other 500 million can be used for team morale events, in-house waterslides, commuter blimp travel, or whatever.

Quote
They probably could have spent half of that before the 360 launched, designing an actual console that doesn't overheat, malfunction, or set anything on fire (strike the last one from the record, that was the original Xbox).

Ingenious!  I'll pass that on to the Xbox team.  "Hay guyz - let's just design it better next time, ok?"

Quote
Again, aside from all this talk about the unworthy, unwieldy and downright horrendously free Playstation Store, I'm just frustrated at this move by Microsoft.  Fundamentally, taking something away from an already restricted membership level to promote an upgrade to paid membership is a nasty move by any company.  Rather than do that, give Gold membership something worth paying for.

A one week delay for free content is a "nasty move"?  Think of it as an expired promotional period, like when your free trial weekend of HBO goes away. You've lost absolutely nothing: you're still paying nothing, and you're still getting your free content.
Logged
KePoW
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1877


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2007, 06:19:22 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 05, 2007, 05:27:23 AM

Quote from: KePoW on December 05, 2007, 04:56:19 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 05, 2007, 04:48:29 AM

I will say that I find all of the "what's one week?  Big deal!" comments humorous considering how much gamers bitch if they have to wait an additional day to get their hands on a hot game.  After all of the cries of agony about the unfairness of street dates with the leaked released of Bioshock and Mass Effect, I have to say that we gamers aren't exactly a patient lot....

problem with that analogy is that you're comparing a demo to a full retail game, which is very different IMO.  most demos these days literally last only like 10-15 minutes, so I really couldn't care less about them.  I mean I'll download one every now and then if I randomly come across it in the Marketplace or PSN Store, but I sure as hell don't wait on any the second they come out

Ah, but if demos weren't in such high demand they wouldn't have to be restricted to Gold only customers for a week to conserve bandwith, would they icon_wink

maybe it's just me then, who isn't really looking to download the Culdcept Saga demo the second it comes out =P
Logged
Harkonis
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9843



View Profile
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2007, 11:39:15 AM »

I do think bandwidth may be an issue.  Anytime there is a surge in activity live goes to crap.  If they separate it into two waves that might help a bit. 
Logged
wonderpug
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11523


hmm...


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2007, 01:55:40 PM »

I'm surprised so many of you think this is being done to provide a better experience for the Gold members (e.g., faster day 1 downloads).  Doesn't it seem much more likely that they simply want more people to subscribe so they can get more money?  Perhaps download speeds will improve for Gold members, but I doubt the improvement will be significant if even noticeable.

Isn't this just for free content, though?  If I can still buy my Rock Band song packs on day 1 with my Silver account it doesn't seem like that big a deal.  If it does delay the for-fee content as well, then I think I might just have to shake my tiny fist from my recliner of rage and then wait a week.
Logged
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15583


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2007, 02:25:02 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 05, 2007, 11:39:15 AM

I do think bandwidth may be an issue.  Anytime there is a surge in activity live goes to crap.  If they separate it into two waves that might help a bit. 

Last night with the release of the fall update is a prime example. Live crawled to a halt...all because of those non-paying teet suckers the Live Silver account holders! I hate them so!  mad
Logged
IkeVandergraaf
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


RRoD FTL! F MS!


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2007, 02:52:50 PM »

I hate Microsoft as much as anyone, and I'm having a hard time getting up in arms over this.  Don't you understand, they're not punishing silver account members; they're rewarding gold acccount members.  Silver members aren't getting stuff a week late; gold members are getting it early.

But seriously, we're talking about people who aren't paying for a service getting free stuff a week later.  Go cry in your hat.
Logged

Gamertag = IkeV
I KNOW DEEP IN MY NMIND THAT THIS DISGUSTING WEBSITE THAT IS OBIVOUSLY OPERATED BY HIGHSCHOOL DROPOUTS LIVING PURPOSELESS AND JOBLESS LIVES
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 18614



View Profile WWW
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2007, 02:58:23 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 04:07:16 AM

I don't ever see Sony charging us to play multiplayer games online.  If by some ridiculous reasoning they decide to follow Xbox Live's scheme of charging people to play games online, I certainly don't see them putting plans in place to hurt those that decide not to pay for the service.

We should hold onto this quote. I give it a year and a half. By mid-2009 I think we could see a play-to-play service.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 04:07:16 AM

My question is, why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?  Simply put, people who don't care to play games online are being hurt by losing out on "free" content for a week.  End of the world?  Not really.  Spitting in the face of those who are most likely on their 2nd or 3rd 360 already, and don't pay to play games online?  Definitely.

They aren't hurting anything. They are not going out and saying "Silver, suck it up. Because you don't pay we're forcing you to wait". They're saying "We're going to let our paying customers into the store first to get the free stuff". Since it's digital, it's not like they're going to run out of stock. Patches and purchases are still available. If you wanted SFII and it was released this Wednesday with a free demo and the purchase, you wouldn't be able to download the free demo, but that's not stopping you from buying it.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 04:07:16 AM

I don't ever see Sony charging us to play multiplayer games online.  If by some ridiculous reasoning they decide to follow Xbox Live's scheme of charging people to play games online, I certainly don't see them putting plans in place to hurt those that decide not to pay for the service.

My question is, why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?  Simply put, people who don't care to play games online are being hurt by losing out on "free" content for a week.  End of the world?  Not really.  Spitting in the face of those who are most likely on their 2nd or 3rd 360 already, and don't pay to play games online?  Definitely.

Wow. You've taken this a little too personally, haven't you? Tieing in the hardware failure rates is no way to compensate people. Offline people who have no silver accounts get hit just as much; so have gold members. There is no congruency to impact vs. silver and there can't be. Should they just be mailing you an 360 branded pillow so you can rest easy?

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

I currently have a Gold subscription.  And to protest I've already "canceled" (because you cannot choose to cancel through your account, so I had to change my CC information to false information) my Gold subscription that will be running up next month.  I don't find any of the 360 exclusives to be particularly interesting, and if a multiplatform demo comes out, chances are that it'll be released on PSN before the 7-day mandate is up via the Xbox Live Marketplace.

So what you're saying is "I'm cancelling on principle", and then follow up with "I'm not interested in their product anyways." You've elected to cancel your multiplayer gaming based on Silver having no rights to download new, free samples, and thusly set yourself up on that. You, the person who has paid HOW MANY TIMES TO CHANGE YOUR GAMERTAG ON THEIR NETWORK?? I don't get it, man.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Which brings me to my next point: the Xbox Live Marketplace.  Marketplace, defined in the dictionary is "An open area or square in a town where a public market or sale is set up."  By that very definition, it is no longer a "marketplace."  It's not a public market anymore - how about the Xbox Live Clubhouse.  Pay a fee to join, and one day a week the filthy commoners can come in and play a round of golf.  It's not really a Marketplace anymore.  It's sort of like going to a Farmer's Market, browsing a delicious fruit stand and wanting to taste a tangerine.  Except, you didn't pay the fee to get in, so they're going to mail a sample to you...and it should arrive in 7 days.

They aren't restricting any purchases or patches, so the whole marketplace def'n goes out the window. A marketplace is somewhere that you spend MONEY. You want free food samples from Costco? Get a membership. Fact of the matter is, XBL gets slammed when an anticipated 1GB demo hits the marketplace, and restricting based on subscription level is the only reasonable way to lessen the impact unless they release it in parts over a week. (kinda like the Steam Preload thing). It's certainly better than enforcing even MORE regional releases.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Basically, I think it's pretty crappy for those gamers who aren't interested in playing multiplayer games online, and obviously, don't pay for the Gold subscription.  I don't think that point can be refuted.

Free content. Free. Still free, a week later. Improve service responsiveness, still allow full market access. This is just like "No passes for this engagement" you see at the movie theatres. No coupons or discounts for the first few weeks.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Quote from: Calvin
Of course not-Sony is perfect, MS is the evil empire, and Sony and the fantastically successful PS3 is simply misunderstood.
Sony isn't perfect.  Microsoft isn't the evil empire.  Sony and the increasingly successful PS3 is improving in nearly every facet.

Seriously, they can only travel in one direction at this point. And in every facet? Really? Backwards compatibility? How about rumble support which has been avail in Japan for how long but not here? Really? By the time I can buy myself a PS3 with rumble support I'll not be able to get a 60GB model that HAD full hw support for back compatibility. That is not an improvement. MS gambled on cutting costs and got burned by it (and are paying for it). Sony bit off more than they could chew. (and are currently trying desperately trying to get their feet out of their mouth). That's improvement. Roll Eyes

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Ever since I got the Eye with the built-in mic, I have no problem communicating people online. 


Whoa. So you'd be ok with me stating that my 360's chat capability would be ok if ONLY I were to buy the XBL vision camera? And making free connections to wait for free downloads on their costly network seems absurd.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

I wish it had the ability to get into voice chat with people during gaming, and with their improved video chat, it looks as if that's in the future. 

Or Fire up XBL and have one with the Vision camera. The only drawback is they don't yet have a compelling game for it.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

And they upgrade their firmware quite often with actual improvements (*cough* friend of a friend *cough*).

How about having a list of 100+ people I know that I can play with, or an intuitive list I can access whilst playing a game? Friend of a Friend isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. That being said, it means that I don't need to keep about a dozen people on my list right now because they ARE friends of friends.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Quote from: Calvin
No matter that they mandate only ONE DAY PER WEEK to release new content, and that its much less in both demos and content than what you get on Live.

Yeah, man, I don't get this.  Maybe they'll introduce a better way of putting things online when there's more stuff to put online.

See, and Microsoft is the other end of that problem. They now have so much stuff online that they need to control the traffic.

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Quote from: Calvin
It's free, ergo it must be superior.

I'm not saying it's superior.  We both know this.  Hell, we get into Xbox Live chat to play games and talk to each other.  I'm just glad I'm not forced into paying to play online multiplayer-enabled games online.  It's a nice perk, don't you agree?

Wouldn't you rather pay a paltry amount and have a complete experience rather than make excuses for the falling down? I don't get that.


Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:03:29 AM

Again, aside from all this talk about the unworthy, unwieldy and downright horrendously free Playstation Store, I'm just frustrated at this move by Microsoft.  Fundamentally, taking something away from an already restricted membership level to promote an upgrade to paid membership is a nasty move by any company.  Rather than do that, give Gold membership something worth paying for.  (and if somebody quotes this last paragraph and types "The ability to download free content seven days before non-paying members", I quit life)

First of all, I won't say "The ability to download free content seven days before non-paying members" slywink. You think there is some vehemence or ill-will pushed onto silver customers, as opposed to them managing the growing popularity of their network and the growth in traffic. They're entitled to it; it's their infrastructure. You've stated that you're voting with your wallet, and I can respect that. I put some time and effort in my responses as it seems like you're off-base with your reasoning. I would also like to point out that just recently MS offered free points to longstanding customers; this was a great perk (although I wished they would arbitrarily given points, rather than mailing out cards).
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15583


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2007, 03:13:12 PM »

Purge just opened a whole can of whoop ass!

Logged
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2007, 03:19:22 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 05, 2007, 02:52:50 PM

But seriously, we're talking about people who aren't paying for a service getting free stuff a week later.  Go cry in your hat.

I'm not worked up over it either (and I'm a Silver member) but I don't really understand this attitude.  MS isn't doing me a favor by offering demos.  It's advertising for first and third party games.  Why should I have to pay for advertising?  If the bandwith is such a huge burden then get publishers to foot part of the cost as a part of their advertising budget for a title.  Or give me the demo the same day as everyone else but make me sit through an ad before I can launch it.  Or provide separate servers for gold and silver users with lower capacity for the latter.

 But to act like I should be grateful for being provided demos seems like a horribly twisted way of looking at things.
Logged
Larraque
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2392


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2007, 03:29:36 PM »

IIRC, Oblivion recently had a free download of new DLC, that was available less than 7 days. To me, what this allows Microsoft to do is provide free DLC to Gold members, while silver members have to pay.
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2007, 03:36:55 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 05, 2007, 03:13:12 PM

Purge just opened a whole can of whoop ass!

I had to scroll back up and make sure you didn't mistake Purge for Pete Rock!  icon_lol
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 03:40:23 PM by CeeKay » Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Laner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4694


Badassfully


View Profile WWW
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2007, 03:45:14 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on December 05, 2007, 03:29:36 PM

IIRC, Oblivion recently had a free download of new DLC, that was available less than 7 days. To me, what this allows Microsoft to do is provide free DLC to Gold members, while silver members have to pay.
Until they actually implement it in this manner, it smacks of crying wolf.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 04:22:51 PM by Laner » Logged
unbreakable
Guest
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2007, 04:36:47 PM »

It's strange, I never heard anyone get up in arms about having to pay for, say, a GameSpot membership in order to download stuff before it was available elsewhere.

It always seems like people's expectations change depending on whether it's Microsoft or not.
Logged
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2007, 04:44:05 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 05, 2007, 04:36:47 PM

It's strange, I never heard anyone get up in arms about having to pay for, say, a GameSpot membership in order to download stuff before it was available elsewhere.

It always seems like people's expectations change depending on whether it's Microsoft or not.

You must have missed a lot of threads when people complain about Fileplanet exclusives.  However on a non-closed platform like the PC, you can rest assured that any exclusivity will be short lived and that other options will appear.  On a console it's a closed platform- it's Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony's way or the highway. 
Logged
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 18614



View Profile WWW
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2007, 04:54:10 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 05, 2007, 04:36:47 PM

It always seems like people's expectations change depending on whether it's Microsoft or not.

QFT.

Quote from: Kevin Grey on December 05, 2007, 03:19:22 PM

If the bandwith is such a huge burden then get publishers to foot part of the cost as a part of their advertising budget for a title.  Or give me the demo the same day as everyone else but make me sit through an ad before I can launch it.  Or provide separate servers for gold and silver users with lower capacity for the latter.

 But to act like I should be grateful for being provided demos seems like a horribly twisted way of looking at things.

I don't think they are asking you to be grateful; you're a non-paying member. You aren't even a customer until you make a purchase. I'm sure that MSFT had put in significant research to market response on the avenues (including forced commercials) and I gotta say that forcing me to sit through commercials to play games would have EVERYONE (myself included) up in arms. I skip dev/pub adverts/logo presentations at the beginning of launching a game; watching Coke push their malted battery acid to fund me being able to play a demo would push me over the edge.

Even if the advertiser is the game maker, this doesn't make sense since at the end they always have their ads with bullet-point slides of "what you get" with the full game. Fact of the matter is that all those 1's and 0's are being hosted and they don't get over the wires for free.

If you get a gold account SIMPLY TO GET DEMOS, it's still cheaper than buying OXM to get the newest demos. If your perogative is to have the latest demos first, then maybe you need to examine how much that is worth to you. By spending TIME, rather than MONEY, your silver membership will still be able to get that free content. You just aren't first in line. If you wanted the RS:V Black or Red packs when they were FIRST released, then the Gold members would have been able to pull the free ones a week ahead of time. Nothing wrong with that. Gold offers way more than that, but that entirely depends on your gaming agenda. If there is no other value to you then maybe spending TIME is your exersized option.

This isn't new to the XBL service either; it's just being applied as a global policy rather than a one-off situation.

AFAIC(oncerned), there hasn't been a decent reason why NOT to go with this method at this time. I said it best in the Culdcept Demo thread: Suck it up, buttercup.
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
The Grue
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8204


You are likely to be eaten by a grue.


View Profile
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2007, 05:07:04 PM »

Seriously, I don't see what the big deal of waiting a week for a demo is.  I don't get how you can feel betrayed about it.  If it was taking the demo away so that you could never play it, I could understand.  If it makes you feel better, pretend that they didn't announce the demo coming out for another week and you can feel like you got it right when it was released.
Logged

XBox Live ID: The Grue
Playstation Network Name: TheGrue
depward
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5540


View Profile
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM »

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.
Logged

depward on the Playstation Network
raaaaaawwwwwwr on Xbox Live
jblank
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4215


Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned


View Profile WWW
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2007, 05:22:31 PM »

Damn people, it's what, $50 a year for Gold? Thats a bit over $4 a month, or a couple of dimes a day. Pay the money and move on, sheesh. This isn't a big deal, hell, it isn't even a small deal.
Logged

XBOX 350 Gamertag = Phobos of Mars
PSN Gamertag = PhobosofMars
jblank
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4215


Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned


View Profile WWW
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2007, 05:24:21 PM »

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.

Serious question, don't take offense:

Are you really that angry over something like this? You have Gold anyway, so it doesn't affect you, why would you be up in arms over this? If anything, it should make you feel like you are getting more for your money, not less.
Logged

XBOX 350 Gamertag = Phobos of Mars
PSN Gamertag = PhobosofMars
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 18614



View Profile WWW
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2007, 05:25:10 PM »

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.

Yes, that's the pattern. Soon, we'll be paying for the benefit of holding a controller. Please insert quarter into DVD drive. Roll Eyes
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #65 on: December 05, 2007, 05:35:39 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 05, 2007, 04:54:10 PM

I don't think they are asking you to be grateful; you're a non-paying member. You aren't even a customer until you make a purchase.

Er, of course I'm a customer. I paid $400 to join the "360 Club" and receiving demos and other content was advertised as a significant step of this console from those that went before. It's certainly an advantage that the 360 offers compared to, say, the Wii. Most importantly, I'm a prospective customer for the game's being demoed. 

I'll say it again- demos are advertisements for the full game.  I shouldn't be expected to pay for the bandwith that carries their advertising to me.  If a company thinks that a trial will better sell their game to me then the onus is on them to get the trial to me.  You say bandwith is expensive and MS shouldn't have to carry the burden, especially for third parties?  Fine, then I listed alternatives. 

You don't want advertising- then that's fine because Gold members shouldn't have to see it.  But "sponsorship" is certainly one of the hot trends of this generation and if there is ever a time when I'm more amenable to someone shoving a commercial in my face it's when I'm receiving something for free. 

Basically, if the root cause of this move is "bandwith is expensive so we have to do this to make it more economical" then I mentioned possible alternatives that would still give Silver users of experiencing the demos in a more timely manner.  However, I will say that there are too many inherent contradictions here to make me believe it- as I stated earlier, if arguments boil down to "a week isn't a big deal, people who don't want to pay for gold probably don't need content day one either, etc" then that means that bandwith issues won't change much at all.   

I believe the time issue is huge.  I'm not talking personally either (again my interest in this is more analytical than personal)- I'm talking about the very nature of product delivery in the internet age and how marketing is shifting to affect that.  Game sales are more front loaded than ever.  Games are having short periods where they burn bright bright while everyone is playing them then the community moves on to the next hot game.  A week is an eon on the internet and I stand by my comment that you won't find a group less patient than gamers (and I certainly include myself in that).  EB/Gamestop's entire preorder model is based on gamers having no patience and they are experiencing record profits. 

 From the standpoint of a third party, there is a very real likelihood that any attention the demo grabs when it's first released will be gone the next week when it "unlocks" for silver members.  Eddie posts a thread this week mentioning that Culdcept demo has arrived.  Will the thread still be active next week when it unlocks for Silver members to remind us that we can grab it?  I'm dubious.  If the community has moved on and there isn't queuing provided by Friend Lists and messageboards and the like, then that Silver member may not bother to grab the demo that he would have just the week before.   Splitting it off in this manner is likely to somewhat mute overall discussion and I can't believe that is in the game maker's best interests if it's a good demo (admittedly incredibly rare). 
Logged
Harkonis
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9843



View Profile
« Reply #66 on: December 05, 2007, 05:42:00 PM »

I do think they are doing you a favor by offering you a demo.  On one hand it is a form of advertising, but I've not bought many more games based on a demo than those I have bought.  That wasn't worded the best, but I think you see what I'm saying.

When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games.  Without gold I really don't see why people should expect to get anything other than patches anyway.  Gold IS the online component imo.
Logged
depward
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5540


View Profile
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2007, 05:42:41 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 05, 2007, 05:24:21 PM

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.

Serious question, don't take offense:

Are you really that angry over something like this? You have Gold anyway, so it doesn't affect you, why would you be up in arms over this? If anything, it should make you feel like you are getting more for your money, not less.

No offense taken whatesoever.  Your answer - I'm honestly not "angry" at all over this.  I'm just don't want to pay $50 a month for it anymore.  Does now having another reason why I feel as though this service isn't worth $50 a year for me supposed to make me angry?
Logged

depward on the Playstation Network
raaaaaawwwwwwr on Xbox Live
depward
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5540


View Profile
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2007, 05:46:29 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 05, 2007, 05:25:10 PM

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.

Yes, that's the pattern. Soon, we'll be paying for the benefit of holding a controller. Please insert quarter into DVD drive. Roll Eyes

This recent development is only starting a trend, my friend.
Logged

depward on the Playstation Network
raaaaaawwwwwwr on Xbox Live
wonderpug
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11523


hmm...


View Profile
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2007, 05:48:07 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 05, 2007, 05:22:31 PM

Damn people, it's what, $50 a year for Gold? Thats a bit over $4 a month, or a couple of dimes a day. Pay the money and move on, sheesh. This isn't a big deal, hell, it isn't even a small deal.

I have got to form a corporation or something and get in on the microtransaction bandwagon.  I am repeatedly baffled at how willing people are to hand over their money in bite sized increments.  Not singling you out at all jblank, my bafflement is also from KePoW in the Culdcept thread and from pretty much everyone else in the country. 

Quote from: Harkonis on December 05, 2007, 05:42:00 PM

When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games.  Without gold I really don't see why people should expect to get anything other than patches anyway.  Gold IS the online component imo.

"Gold Membership
Enhance your experience with great online multiplayer gameplay, exclusive and early access to content, TrueSkill matchmaking, and even more with premium Gold membership.

Free Silver Membership
Silver membership is instant and included with your Xbox 360 console. All you need is a broadband Internet connection, and you can access exclusive game content like game demos, gamer pictures, and even new levels!"


When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games and has a Silver Membership which lets you "access exclusive game content like game demos, gamer pictures, and even new levels." No mention of patches, so according to the official site people should expect everything but patches! slywink (and online multiplayer and early access)
Logged
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2007, 05:49:03 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 05, 2007, 05:42:00 PM

I do think they are doing you a favor by offering you a demo.  On one hand it is a form of advertising, but I've not bought many more games based on a demo than those I have bought.  That wasn't worded the best, but I think you see what I'm saying.

I totally agree with that because the demos have generally been so godawful this generation that they have saved me money.  But I'm pretty sure that's not the publisher's intention Tongue

Quote
When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games.  Without gold I really don't see why people should expect to get anything other than patches anyway.  Gold IS the online component imo.

Completely untrue IMO.  All three competitors this generation are offering some sort of front end "service".  The Wii has certainly been hit by some for not being competitive in these areas compared to MS and Sony.  Sony has been criticized for not only their multiplayer implementation but also not offering the same quantity of demos and other markeplace content as MS and not having as much available "older generation" product as Nintendo and it's Virtual Console.  MS's new game download service is clearly a reaction to the success of the latter.  All three companies are now competing in this arena  and what's being offered by each is certainly a part of the calculus a potential consumer is using when evaluating if a console is worth the asking price. 
Logged
jblank
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4215


Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned


View Profile WWW
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2007, 06:00:29 PM »

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:42:41 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 05, 2007, 05:24:21 PM

Quote from: depward on December 05, 2007, 05:19:50 PM

Questions:  When am I going to start getting charged to access the Marketplace blade?  Also:  If I'm a silver member, will I have to wait a week for the AWESOME free new movie release gamepics coming out in the future?

And:  When will Microsoft pull the trigger and allow Gold members to get their full 1000 achievement points in future releases and only allow Silver members to get a maximum of 500 per title?

Eh, I'm going to go down to Silver so I don't have to pay my $50 a year to cover the RROD repair costs and just go live free on the PSN.

Serious question, don't take offense:

Are you really that angry over something like this? You have Gold anyway, so it doesn't affect you, why would you be up in arms over this? If anything, it should make you feel like you are getting more for your money, not less.

No offense taken whatesoever.  Your answer - I'm honestly not "angry" at all over this.  I'm just don't want to pay $50 a month for it anymore.  Does now having another reason why I feel as though this service isn't worth $50 a year for me supposed to make me angry?

So for you, playing great games online with others here and on the service, isn't worth 20 cents a day? You could scour your desk drawers and find that much money. There is A LOT to be pissed off about when it comes to gaming today, but as good as Microsoft has done on the service, and as good as the games are in multiplayer, $50 a year is nothing. Think what you spend on other stuff that doesn't give you half the enjoyment as gaming does.
Logged

XBOX 350 Gamertag = Phobos of Mars
PSN Gamertag = PhobosofMars
KePoW
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1877


View Profile
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2007, 06:03:22 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on December 05, 2007, 05:48:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 05, 2007, 05:22:31 PM

Damn people, it's what, $50 a year for Gold? Thats a bit over $4 a month, or a couple of dimes a day. Pay the money and move on, sheesh. This isn't a big deal, hell, it isn't even a small deal.

I have got to form a corporation or something and get in on the microtransaction bandwagon.  I am repeatedly baffled at how willing people are to hand over their money in bite sized increments.  Not singling you out at all jblank, my bafflement is also from KePoW in the Culdcept thread and from pretty much everyone else in the country

then you need to get more in tune with the masses these days

no offense, but you don't sound too informed about business/marketing/psychological profiling...it can make you a lot of money.  don't be so narrow-sighted and think that everyone should only be like you
Logged
jblank
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4215


Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned


View Profile WWW
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2007, 06:03:59 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on December 05, 2007, 05:48:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 05, 2007, 05:22:31 PM

Damn people, it's what, $50 a year for Gold? Thats a bit over $4 a month, or a couple of dimes a day. Pay the money and move on, sheesh. This isn't a big deal, hell, it isn't even a small deal.

I have got to form a corporation or something and get in on the microtransaction bandwagon.  I am repeatedly baffled at how willing people are to hand over their money in bite sized increments.  Not singling you out at all jblank, my bafflement is also from KePoW in the Culdcept thread and from pretty much everyone else in the country. 

Quote from: Harkonis on December 05, 2007, 05:42:00 PM

When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games.  Without gold I really don't see why people should expect to get anything other than patches anyway.  Gold IS the online component imo.

"Gold Membership
Enhance your experience with great online multiplayer gameplay, exclusive and early access to content, TrueSkill matchmaking, and even more with premium Gold membership.

Free Silver Membership
Silver membership is instant and included with your Xbox 360 console. All you need is a broadband Internet connection, and you can access exclusive game content like game demos, gamer pictures, and even new levels!"


When you buy a 360 you are getting a console that plays games and has a Silver Membership which lets you "access exclusive game content like game demos, gamer pictures, and even new levels." No mention of patches, so according to the official site people should expect everything but patches! slywink (and online multiplayer and early access)

The difference is that it is a hobby for me, just like Golf, which I also play as well, and with a hobby, usually comes some expenditures. $50 is 2 rounds of Golf for me, a tank and a half of gas, 1/4 of my normal monthly mileage reimbursement, in short, it is NOT a lot of money, especially for how good the service is, and how good the games are. I don't view it as being nickel and dimed.
Logged

XBOX 350 Gamertag = Phobos of Mars
PSN Gamertag = PhobosofMars
TheMissingLink
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 6235


TML, for short.


View Profile
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2007, 06:22:29 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 05, 2007, 04:54:10 PM

I don't think they are asking you to be grateful; you're a non-paying member. You aren't even a customer until you make a purchase.

An Xbox 360...was...purchased?  Isn't that enough anymore?

Purge, I applaud you on your epic thought-by-thought rebuttal, and it's true, it's hard to defend Sony if you pit them against Microsoft's online service.  I'm not sure that whooping my ass was your intention (and I certainly hope that isn't the goal of anyone on this forum, as we're trying to simply debate a business decision), but it was fun to read your responses in my comparison.

However, the entire debate can be wrapped up in one sentence; why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?

I think that those who are typing messages like "just pay for Xbox Live", "it's cents per day", "quit whining and don't pay if you don't want to", "suck it up", are missing the entire point.  It's not a vendetta by certain people, it's a miscalculated move that facerapes Xbox 360 owners who don't pay to play online multiplayer-enabled games online.  It's an unfair ultimatum - pay for services you currently don't pay for or lose privileges.
Logged

TheMissingLink on PSN
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2007, 06:26:19 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:22:29 PM

However, the entire debate can be wrapped up in one sentence; why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?

You're using some ridiculous inflammatory phrases here that are completely out of proportion with the change.  "Facerape"?  Silver customers aren't "hurt" by this change, at least by any reasonable definition of the term.
Logged
KePoW
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1877


View Profile
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2007, 06:26:20 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:22:29 PM

However, the entire debate can be wrapped up in one sentence; why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?

I think the simple answer is that it's partly to alleviate bandwidth issues, and partly to try to 'nudge' Silver users into possibly becoming Gold members

there's room for both reasons as part of the decision
Logged
rickfc
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5651


Why so serious?


View Profile
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2007, 06:27:18 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:22:29 PM

However, the entire debate can be wrapped up in one sentence; why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?


The problem is that one sentence can wrap up the debate from the other side of the fence; why are people complaining that Microsoft has decided to give their Gold members another perk?

I'm just sayin'.  I'm a Gold member, but I couldn't give a crap either way.  I don't sit around waiting for demos, but I can appreciate the fact I have priority because I paid for the service.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 06:29:31 PM by rickfc » Logged
Simon
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1185


View Profile
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2007, 06:31:09 PM »

Silver or Gold, it sure beats paying $8 a month for an OXM demo disk.
Logged
PeteRock
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 6798


Fabulous is a state of being. For me, anyways.


View Profile
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2007, 06:31:26 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on December 05, 2007, 06:22:29 PM

However, the entire debate can be wrapped up in one sentence; why has Microsoft decided to hurt the consumer that doesn't wish to play games online?

I think that those who are typing messages like "just pay for Xbox Live", "it's cents per day", "quit whining and don't pay if you don't want to", "suck it up", are missing the entire point.  It's not a vendetta by certain people, it's a miscalculated move that facerapes Xbox 360 owners who don't pay to play online multiplayer-enabled games online.  It's an unfair ultimatum - pay for services you currently don't pay for or lose privileges.

Actually, can't the perception instead be that Microsoft is instead offering something more to Gold subscribers?  As of right now, Gold and Silver members have access to pretty much the same stuff, minus the ability to play online MP.  Instead of viewing this as a move to "facerape" Silver members, can't one view it as offering an advantage to Gold members, something that so far has been rather lacking, instead of taking away from Silver members?  Other than online MP, what else does a Gold membership offer?  Not much.  And so now Microsoft can be seen as rewarding Gold subscribers by allowing earlier access to content than freeloaders.....I mean Silver members ( icon_wink).  It's not that Silver members are getting later access, but that Gold members are now getting earlier access due to the additional fee they pay.  Half empty/half full and all that.  
Logged

Beauty is only skin deep.  Which is why I take very good care of my skin.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.29 seconds with 103 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.104s, 2q)