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Author Topic: Forza Motorsport impressions here!  (Read 18301 times)
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Devil
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« Reply #120 on: May 11, 2005, 01:34:44 AM »

Devils car...#13...black red and white...Subaru STi...waiting...

 :cry:  :wink:
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #121 on: May 11, 2005, 02:29:20 AM »

aight.  This is what i drove, color and all, exactly, IRL and in game.  Any ideas for what'd make a really cool paintjob?  I've been looking but i'm stumped, i need ideas.



Right now i have it tuned out for C class championship as best as I can.  Been using Road Atlanta 2 to tune it and i've got it down to 1:11:334 on my best lap so far (in a c cup race, not test track) which was very close to "perfect for me" as far as driving goes.  Also set a 1:15:004 on Road Atlanta 2 on the test track for a first lap.  This game's really challenging.  I'm sure i'll be able to improve that time quite a bit more with more time spent tuning and practicing but its still pretty fast for the mazda 3 and extremely challenging to get that far.

I don't know enough to know whether you can actually possibly set the best time with any car or only certain ones.  It seems like almost everyone is driving the same cars in these events and it makes me wonder...thats for sure.  I would have thought i could get a Mazda 3 to go around the track as fast as anything else in C class though.  Maybe i'm just deluding myself and should stick to D with it after all...

My biggest tuning question is still where the differential should be set.

My current time falls worlds short of first place on the Road Atlanta 2 C championship race.  If i multiplied my best lap by 5 and added 6 seconds for the first lap i'd have a 6:00 race.  The current first place is some guy named Alba with 5.35.441.  Seems like an insurmountable gap at this point.

Anyone want help me out on my challenge to set first place with a mazda 3 on road atlanta 2 C cup?

My xboxlive tag is "Fuzzball x".  I need to get on you guys friends lists for some online racing fun.

I'm having a righteous blast with this game so far.

And the lord says "Thou shalt create leader boards for each car for each class, Microsoft"
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Driver
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« Reply #122 on: May 11, 2005, 03:24:59 AM »

Here's an idea: slywink

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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #123 on: May 11, 2005, 04:50:19 AM »

That should be reported for eye harrassment, Driver.
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Simon
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« Reply #124 on: May 11, 2005, 05:24:19 AM »

I'm working on a design right now which has been pretty easy to do and based on one of my son's Hot Wheels. smile
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #125 on: May 11, 2005, 05:29:00 AM »

Quote from: "Simon"
I'm working on a design right now which has been pretty easy to do and based on one of my son's Hot Wheels. smile


Thats a good idea, using hotwheels for a basis.  On that note, i'm going to bed.
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lildrgn
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« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2005, 05:33:46 AM »

I took a red R32 and put the fade decal on the front to go black -> red. I then stamped the Star in Circle decal on the front corner and rear bumper. If I had teh skillz, I'd be able to wrap it around the corners, but, alas, I lack teh skillz.

As soon as teh wife is off teh Tivo, perhaps I'll go racing.
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wonderpug
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hmm...


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« Reply #127 on: May 11, 2005, 12:35:02 PM »

Quote from: "lildrgn"
As soon as teh wife is off teh Tivo, perhaps I'll go racing.

Tell me about it!  Right now I've lost more races to Oprah than to other drivers.
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lildrgn
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« Reply #128 on: May 11, 2005, 04:29:55 PM »

Quote from: "wonderpug"
Quote from: "lildrgn"
As soon as teh wife is off teh Tivo, perhaps I'll go racing.

Tell me about it!  Right now I've lost more races to Oprah than to other drivers.


Luckily her birthday is next week and what better way to say "Get off my Xbox TV" than to give her her very own Tivo! It's on its way and will be here tomorrow!

w00t
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #129 on: May 11, 2005, 10:24:28 PM »

I got my laptime in Road Atlanta 2 down another couple seconds to 1:10:300 but i'm mucho pissed off at the stupid penalty system now.  I went for posting an official time on xblive and i accidently went off track for long enough to get a 5.7 second penalty added to my ALREADY lowered time.

WTF is up with this penalty system?  I hate it.  Its the worst part of the game by far.  I'm already several seconds behind for going off track anywhere on this track and yet it hands an extra penalty time?? come on...thats just completely unfair of the game.

The penalty timer is frustrating the HELL out of me.  It's really really really confoundingly hard not to go off track a little bit once in a race where your pushing the edge the whole time trying to set a record, and the game actually dares to DOUBLE your lost time for going off track=((.

Anyhow, the good news is, i'm fairly confident i have the best mazda 3 out there, and nobody'll steal my setup without permission since I can't beat all the AWD cars filling up the top 100=) hehe.
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stiffler
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« Reply #130 on: May 11, 2005, 11:00:21 PM »

Quote from: "Fuzzballx"
WTF is up with this penalty system?  I hate it.  Its the worst part of the game by far.  I'm already several seconds behind for going off track anywhere on this track and yet it hands an extra penalty time?? come on...thats just completely unfair of the game.


Is that what that is?  So maybe I should RTFM after all.  I had no idea.  I just assumed it was some kind of optimal time or perhaps how far off my previous best I was.

I agree it sucks, but since I don't have a prayer of touching those top times I'll live with it.
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Chaz
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« Reply #131 on: May 11, 2005, 11:23:19 PM »

I'm assuming that the penalty time is in place to discourage people from going off-track to cut corners.  For example, at Laguna Seca, it's a heck of a lot easier to get up a bunch of speed and just cut across the corkscrew.  Granted, you won't get a fantastic time doing it, but if you can't negotiate it properly, it's probably better than you'd do otherwise.  With the penalty timer in place, you really have to drive the corner.

Not saying that it ends up being a good thing overall, but I'd imagine that's the thinking behind it.
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Driver
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« Reply #132 on: May 11, 2005, 11:40:35 PM »

Yeah, that penalty timer is a great feature.
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pingwrx
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« Reply #133 on: May 11, 2005, 11:53:59 PM »

Quote from: "Fuzzballx"
aight.  This is what i drove, color and all, exactly, IRL and in game.  Any ideas for what'd make a really cool paintjob?  I've been looking but i'm stumped, i need ideas.



Right now i have it tuned out for C class championship as best as I can.  Been using Road Atlanta 2 to tune it and i've got it down to 1:11:334 on my best lap so far (in a c cup race, not test track) which was very close to "perfect for me" as far as driving goes.  Also set a 1:15:004 on Road Atlanta 2 on the test track for a first lap.  This game's really challenging.  I'm sure i'll be able to improve that time quite a bit more with more time spent tuning and practicing but its still pretty fast for the mazda 3 and extremely challenging to get that far.

I don't know enough to know whether you can actually possibly set the best time with any car or only certain ones.  It seems like almost everyone is driving the same cars in these events and it makes me wonder...thats for sure.  I would have thought i could get a Mazda 3 to go around the track as fast as anything else in C class though.  Maybe i'm just deluding myself and should stick to D with it after all...

My biggest tuning question is still where the differential should be set.

My current time falls worlds short of first place on the Road Atlanta 2 C championship race.  If i multiplied my best lap by 5 and added 6 seconds for the first lap i'd have a 6:00 race.  The current first place is some guy named Alba with 5.35.441.  Seems like an insurmountable gap at this point.

Anyone want help me out on my challenge to set first place with a mazda 3 on road atlanta 2 C cup?

My xboxlive tag is "Fuzzball x".  I need to get on you guys friends lists for some online racing fun.

I'm having a righteous blast with this game so far.

And the lord says "Thou shalt create leader boards for each car for each class, Microsoft"


Hey Fuzzballx nice to see another Mazda owner on here I drive a metallic gray Mazda6 with the v6 IRL.
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Harpua3
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« Reply #134 on: May 12, 2005, 08:04:24 AM »

I have absolutely nothing negative to say about this game after a week of heavy playtime on this beast. Great game. It`s not perfect...but really close in my opinion :wink: .
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #135 on: May 12, 2005, 01:40:50 PM »

Yea, i can go for close to perfect...but i still think the penalty timer should only be made to apply in certain spots.  In other spots, your obviously already in the negative just from going offtrack and have no need of having your delay doubled by a penalty.  Especially in situations where you get KNOCKED off the track.

Thats my only real beef.

Aside from that, i have run into some situations where i see the AI stuff happen that the IGN reveiwer was complaining about.  The AI, while the best i've ever seen, does seem to have a tendency to ignore your car sometimes...contrary to MS claims that its aware and will try to avoid to collisions like a normal player...i've seen some definitely non normal behavior on occasion.  On the other hand, in general, i'm quite happy with the AI and frustrating experiences are not the norm.  But, there have been occasions where the AI will completely ignore your existance and smash you off the track like you didn't exist and keep going...rare but it happens.  Usually in the races where everyone is driving the exact same car like the Miata 1.8 sport series.

I can't call the game perfect, but i'd call it damn close.  A tiny bit more work on the penalty system and AI interaction with the player car would make it perfect.

Quote
Hey Fuzzballx nice to see another Mazda owner on here I drive a metallic gray Mazda6 with the v6 IRL.


Oh yea, and -10 points for MS not putting the Mazda 6 V6 and Masdaspeed 6 prototype in the game.  GLARING oversight.  At least we have the Masdaspeed Protoge(sp?).  That keeps me somewhat happy to go along with my 3.  And thankfully the customization available on the 3 is giant enough that the mazdaspeed version is not needed.  With the weightloss options purchased you can drop almost 500 pounds from the car which is fantastic for a car that starts at about 2800.

I've been having so much fun playing with my IRL car in game that i'm lagging way behind in actually progressing my career.  I think i'm gonna start a drivatar tonight.
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gellar
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« Reply #136 on: May 12, 2005, 04:48:28 PM »

The AI is my only gripe with the game right now.  In low speed corners (Road Atlanta, NYC & Laguna Seca come to mind), the AI seems to drive all Gran Turismo on you and try to bounce off you or the wall to make the turn.  Really frustrating.

Other than that, I love the game.  It hasn't gotten a lot of playtime due to my enthrallment of GTR, but I'm really very impressed.  Live Scoreboards are key.

gellar
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Simon
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« Reply #137 on: May 12, 2005, 11:17:11 PM »

Here's my first design, very basic but was fun to do. smile



Anyone up for some Live this weekend?
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Devil
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« Reply #138 on: May 13, 2005, 01:05:01 AM »

Nice work Simon!

Now..red and black STi, #13... :wink:
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Driver
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« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2005, 05:09:18 AM »

That's looks fantastic, Simon!
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Sparhawk
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« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2005, 01:06:28 PM »

OKay my Live handle is Jaler. Go ahead and add me to your friends list, please! I want to race with everyone. I had a blast last night online with Forza and I look forward to racing with everyone.
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gellar
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« Reply #141 on: May 14, 2005, 10:01:36 PM »

Time for my final, detailed impressions on this one:

What the game does well:
+ Simulates driving with a controller better than any other console game I've ever played.  I still prefer just about any game with a quality wheel, but this is some pretty good work right here.  I'm particularly impressed with the way they let you countersteer with the thumbstick.  It feels right and is very intuitive.
+ Sounds effects.  While not quite 100% accurate, and the modified parts are a bit overdone, it's still very very good.  The sound effects are leagues better than Gran Turismos.
+ Customization.  Seems technically accurate.  The Horsepower jumps aren't *too* ridiculous (still overstated, but I can understand why), and I really like the whole engine swap idea for some cars.  Very neat.  I also like the real life body kits.  Now while this normally isn't my cup of tea in a game, it's still a very nice part of Forza.
+ XBox Live Integration.  Makes the game, IMHO.  Seeing scoreboards gives you that arcade "just one more quarter and I can beat the top score" feeiling.  Very, very nice.
+ Game Flow.  You can tell the designers spent a lot of time trying to avoid the "what do I do now?" feeling that Gran Turismo gave a lot of gamers.  They succeeded.  The flow of the game is great, and you're never short on credits so the need to repeat races just for money is gone.   Then there are the "classes" of cars, so you know just how equally matched your car is vs every race you're in.  No guessing like in Gran Turismo.  Very, very well done, and might well be the best and most overlooked part of this game.

What the game doesn't do well:
- AI.  My number one gripe with the game.  Sorry guys, the AI is bad.  It's bad in a different way than Gran Turismo's AI is bad, but it's still bad nontheless.  Want an exercise in frustration?  Go into a race where you're equally matched with the AI in Tokyo.  You cannot finish the damn race without getting beaten into submission by the AI.  The game, quite simply, has zero idea on how to make a tight, low speed turn.  Want comedy?  Start at the back of the pack in Tokyo and watch the AI take turn one.  75% of the cars wipe out and overdrive the turn every single time.  It's not just this track either, it's absolutely any track with a low speed hairpin.  Final turn (11) of Laguna Seca?  Check.  Final chicane of Road Atlanta?  Check.  Damn near any 90 degree turn in NYC?  Check.  You name it, if it's slow and tight, the AI will butcher it.  I nearly chucked my controller in frustration at the race I'm trying to finish right now: Tokyo with the Lightweight stock cars.  Everything is so equally matched, and the race is 4 laps.  I cannot survive 4 laps with the AI, my car is a heaping wreck by the end.

- Track variety.  Just not enough tracks.  Really could have used more, as even 20% of the way through the game, you start to feel as though you're repeating things.

- Music.  Ugh.

- Car graphics.  Ugly.  Really ugly.

Overall thoughts:
Fun game.  Most "sim" like I've played on a console.  Nothing close to PC sims, but still very good in it's own right.  Fun online.  Fun when not getting run over by the AI.  My disappointment is the AI.  The game just isn't fun on tight tracks.  It's an exercise in frustration.  I've had to resort to turning the AI down from hard to medium or easy just so I can get enough of a lead to where the jackasses won't plow into me.  The game might be a hair better than Gran Turismo.  Certainly worth a purchase, but not without its flaws.  8.5/10.

gellar
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Geezer
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« Reply #142 on: May 15, 2005, 12:03:45 AM »

Quote from: "gellar"
Time for my final, detailed impressions on this one:

What the game does well:
+ Simulates driving with a controller better than any other console game I've ever played.  I still prefer just about any game with a quality wheel, but this is some pretty good work right here.  I'm particularly impressed with the way they let you countersteer with the thumbstick.  It feels right and is very intuitive.
+ Sounds effects.  While not quite 100% accurate, and the modified parts are a bit overdone, it's still very very good.  The sound effects are leagues better than Gran Turismos.
+ Customization.  Seems technically accurate.  The Horsepower jumps aren't *too* ridiculous (still overstated, but I can understand why), and I really like the whole engine swap idea for some cars.  Very neat.  I also like the real life body kits.  Now while this normally isn't my cup of tea in a game, it's still a very nice part of Forza.
+ XBox Live Integration.  Makes the game, IMHO.  Seeing scoreboards gives you that arcade "just one more quarter and I can beat the top score" feeiling.  Very, very nice.
+ Game Flow.  You can tell the designers spent a lot of time trying to avoid the "what do I do now?" feeling that Gran Turismo gave a lot of gamers.  They succeeded.  The flow of the game is great, and you're never short on credits so the need to repeat races just for money is gone.   Then there are the "classes" of cars, so you know just how equally matched your car is vs every race you're in.  No guessing like in Gran Turismo.  Very, very well done, and might well be the best and most overlooked part of this game.

What the game doesn't do well:
- AI.  My number one gripe with the game.  Sorry guys, the AI is bad.  It's bad in a different way than Gran Turismo's AI is bad, but it's still bad nontheless.  Want an exercise in frustration?  Go into a race where you're equally matched with the AI in Tokyo.  You cannot finish the damn race without getting beaten into submission by the AI.  The game, quite simply, has zero idea on how to make a tight, low speed turn.  Want comedy?  Start at the back of the pack in Tokyo and watch the AI take turn one.  75% of the cars wipe out and overdrive the turn every single time.  It's not just this track either, it's absolutely any track with a low speed hairpin.  Final turn (11) of Laguna Seca?  Check.  Final chicane of Road Atlanta?  Check.  Damn near any 90 degree turn in NYC?  Check.  You name it, if it's slow and tight, the AI will butcher it.  I nearly chucked my controller in frustration at the race I'm trying to finish right now: Tokyo with the Lightweight stock cars.  Everything is so equally matched, and the race is 4 laps.  I cannot survive 4 laps with the AI, my car is a heaping wreck by the end.

- Track variety.  Just not enough tracks.  Really could have used more, as even 20% of the way through the game, you start to feel as though you're repeating things.

- Music.  Ugh.

- Car graphics.  Ugly.  Really ugly.

Overall thoughts:
Fun game.  Most "sim" like I've played on a console.  Nothing close to PC sims, but still very good in it's own right.  Fun online.  Fun when not getting run over by the AI.  My disappointment is the AI.  The game just isn't fun on tight tracks.  It's an exercise in frustration.  I've had to resort to turning the AI down from hard to medium or easy just so I can get enough of a lead to where the jackasses won't plow into me.  The game might be a hair better than Gran Turismo.  Certainly worth a purchase, but not without its flaws.  8.5/10.

gellar


I just bought this today.  You are so done...

slywink
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #143 on: May 15, 2005, 01:27:58 AM »

I agree about the AI being annoying in races where all the cars are the exact same.  I think someone forgot the collision avoidance, these guys WANT to run you off the road bad for some reason in those races.

What i dont see, is the bad turning that Gellar is seeing.  I havn't noticed big pileups or missed turns on those tracks/corners you listed, Gellar.  Not saying you havn't, i'm just saying...they're turning really good for me in those spots.  I see the AI keep me fighting for time in those turns by doing quite well with only the occasional miss.


But on that note, need to add all you guys live tags to my friends list.  I have no friends in my list on live! ah!!!!!!  First live game i've had to really play.

My tag is Fuzzball x, add me! i'm adding every tag i see, looking yers up now.
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #144 on: May 15, 2005, 01:34:08 AM »

Hmm, hey, ya'll up for a CG car club or is there one already?
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JuniorDan
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« Reply #145 on: May 15, 2005, 02:44:01 AM »

I am adding as much people as I can to my live so just accept me.
Juniordan. I am also working hard to beat everyones time. so look out.
friend list.
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #146 on: May 15, 2005, 04:43:07 PM »

hehe, well, i havn't been trying very hard for top spot yet.  I've been focusing more on making specific cars that i like as fast as i can get em to go.

There's a few cars that kind of knock the top off their respective classes.
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« Reply #147 on: May 15, 2005, 06:19:07 PM »

Quote from: "Geezer"
I just bought this today.  You are so done...

slywink


Bring it, foo.  The Elise is a fun car slywink

gellar
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« Reply #148 on: May 15, 2005, 06:20:43 PM »

Quote from: "Fuzzballx"
What i dont see, is the bad turning that Gellar is seeing.  I havn't noticed big pileups or missed turns on those tracks/corners you listed, Gellar.  Not saying you havn't, i'm just saying...they're turning really good for me in those spots.  I see the AI keep me fighting for time in those turns by doing quite well with only the occasional miss.


I think it might have a lot with me running "Hard" difficulty.  The AI is really, really aggressive and apparently, overly so.  I'd moved it down to medium and they are far less stupid, but also a lot slower, allowing me to run away with the race.

I wish there was a nice spot in the middle.

gellar
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #149 on: May 15, 2005, 07:03:53 PM »

I've been running strictly on medium AI.  Provides plenty of challenge for most of the cars i've been running.
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« Reply #150 on: May 15, 2005, 09:53:11 PM »

To each his/her own, but I certainly wouldn`t call the car graphics ugly at all...That`s just me I guess. :wink:
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naednek
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« Reply #151 on: May 15, 2005, 10:35:57 PM »

I've only seen Gran Turismo 4 at BB and played it for 5 mins or so, but from what I saw both games are comparable as far as car graphics goes
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gellar
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« Reply #152 on: May 15, 2005, 11:38:32 PM »

Well, to be fair... I am comparing it to GT4 running at 1080i as opposed to 480p.  I'm also comparing it to high end PC sims.

It's about the same as say Midnight Club 3 or NFSU2.

gellar
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« Reply #153 on: May 16, 2005, 12:41:05 PM »

I don't think the car models are "really ugly" in the least. They only look SLIGHTLY worse the the GT4 models.

Never had a problem with the AI either. Just did an all Rotor engine race at the speedway last night and the AI performed perfectly on the highspeed track. From the start to finish the AI drafted and pushed me and other cars throughout the entire race, and probably ranked as the most exciting race I've had thus far in the game. Well, online is the most exciting (and definitely brings back memories of playing Papy's Nascar Racing online till early morning).

On tracks with a lot of turns the AI never once plowed into me on purpose unless it was in retaliation. They have always braked when behind me as I was approuching a turn. The AI will attempt to pass me before a turn, then slow down if they know they can't get passed me while in the turn.

So far I'm very impressed with Forza and look forward to part 2.
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« Reply #154 on: May 16, 2005, 03:43:18 PM »

I'm beginning to think my AI issues are because I run the game with "Hard" AI.  Unfortunately, it's not very challenging for me at Medium... so I'm hosed either way.

gellar
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« Reply #155 on: May 16, 2005, 03:56:05 PM »

Quote from: "gellar"
I'm beginning to think my AI issues are because I run the game with "Hard" AI.  Unfortunately, it's not very challenging for me at Medium... so I'm hosed either way.

gellar


I've heard rumors that the AI picks up traits from drivatars, try going through the drivatar training and show it how it should be done perhaps?
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wonderpug
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hmm...


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« Reply #156 on: May 16, 2005, 04:06:45 PM »

Does the drivatar have the ability to learn how you handle corners?  To me it looked like it just gave you a % rank for each type of turn to determine how good your drivatar would be at those turns.
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jztemple
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« Reply #157 on: May 16, 2005, 04:18:47 PM »

Quote from: "gellar"
I'm beginning to think my AI issues are because I run the game with "Hard" AI.  Unfortunately, it's not very challenging for me at Medium... so I'm hosed either way.

gellar


I feel badly for you... I suck at racing, so the Medium AI is very challenging for me!! :lol:
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gellar
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« Reply #158 on: May 16, 2005, 04:46:31 PM »

Quote from: "coopasonic"
Quote from: "gellar"
I'm beginning to think my AI issues are because I run the game with "Hard" AI.  Unfortunately, it's not very challenging for me at Medium... so I'm hosed either way.

gellar


I've heard rumors that the AI picks up traits from drivatars, try going through the drivatar training and show it how it should be done perhaps?


Worth a try.  At the very least, I need to train my drivatar to run those races where the AI likes to run me off the road.  That way I won't want to toss my controller though my TV.

gellar
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #159 on: May 16, 2005, 06:06:36 PM »

Quote from: "wonderpug"
Does the drivatar have the ability to learn how you handle corners?  To me it looked like it just gave you a % rank for each type of turn to determine how good your drivatar would be at those turns.

Yes.  The % rank is only a guide for novices per Microsoft and can be pretty much ignored by better drivers.  The % is against something like driving the "suggested line" perfectly which is again...not neccessarily the optimal line...its suggested for drivers just trying to learn the game and tracks...

so..the % is just a guide for novices, the AI in the drivatar is supposedly actually learning how YOU drive.
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