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Author Topic: Forza 3 Discussion and Impressions  (Read 24368 times)
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gellar
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« Reply #120 on: October 27, 2009, 06:27:35 PM »

Ike - I will race Forza 3 the same way I raced Forza 2.  Cleanly - until I see you.  In which case, it's spinny spinny time.

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« Reply #121 on: October 27, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »

Quote from: gellar on October 27, 2009, 06:27:35 PM

Ike - I will race Forza 3 the same way I raced Forza 2.  Cleanly - until I see you.  In which case, it's spinny spinny time.

gellar

I am giddy with anticipation, sir.  I will be home around 8 pm eastern.
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« Reply #122 on: October 27, 2009, 06:37:33 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 05:47:01 PM

But with MW2 coming out in 2 weeks, I suspect that the MP shelflife of this game will be unfortunately short.

I'm planning to bounce between both games when CoD comes out. Hopefully we'll be able to at least get a regular Forza night going even when the rest of the holiday deluge hits.


Hope to be on for some racing tonight, but I think Ill be on at ~9 eastern at the earliest.

I think I have most of the folks in this thread on my friends list already, but if not my gamertag is also wonderpug.
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gellar
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« Reply #123 on: October 27, 2009, 06:38:48 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 06:32:01 PM

Quote from: gellar on October 27, 2009, 06:27:35 PM

Ike - I will race Forza 3 the same way I raced Forza 2.  Cleanly - until I see you.  In which case, it's spinny spinny time.

gellar

I am giddy with anticipation, sir.  I will be home around 8 pm eastern.

I doubt UPS will even have mine delivered by then, but I'll jump on when it does.  My first games will be online, which should be a HOOT AND A HALF.

gelar
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« Reply #124 on: October 27, 2009, 06:51:36 PM »

I honestly don't know when I'll be online.  Too many games to play right now. 

When I get online, I'l race with every intention of running a clean race, but if nudging you out of the way will allow me to overtake you, then you might get nudged. 

I might also wait to go online until I've got my crappy car all gussied up in bright pink hearts and butterflies.  The Luv Bug will ride again!
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« Reply #125 on: October 27, 2009, 07:00:07 PM »

Cripes, I just noticed, when I buy a part and sell it back, I get less money! I'm pretty sure in Forza 2 that if you sold a part you had bought you got the total purchase price back, right?
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #126 on: October 27, 2009, 07:03:33 PM »

I'm pretty sure you didn't but I can't really remember.
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« Reply #127 on: October 27, 2009, 07:10:20 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 07:03:33 PM

I'm pretty sure you didn't but I can't really remember.

Same.

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« Reply #128 on: October 27, 2009, 07:10:57 PM »

Quote from: jztemple2 on October 27, 2009, 07:00:07 PM

Cripes, I just noticed, when I buy a part and sell it back, I get less money! I'm pretty sure in Forza 2 that if you sold a part you had bought you got the total purchase price back, right?

NFS: Shift is the only racing game of this type I remember getting full purchase price back on parts (and even cars).
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« Reply #129 on: October 27, 2009, 07:11:20 PM »

Quote from: jztemple2 on October 27, 2009, 07:00:07 PM

Cripes, I just noticed, when I buy a part and sell it back, I get less money! I'm pretty sure in Forza 2 that if you sold a part you had bought you got the total purchase price back, right?

So you can hit a time rewind button to undo a 10 car pileup, but buy that muffler and it's set in stone. slywink
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jztemple2
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« Reply #130 on: October 27, 2009, 08:07:10 PM »

I'm already liking the new storefront system. I'm trying in this Forza to not just slap decals on, so if I add an upgrade to a car I add the decal from the manufacturer.

But that's not enough variety. So I wandered through the Decal Storefront and got a free Dominos Pizza logo for my car. Nice!
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« Reply #131 on: October 27, 2009, 08:11:33 PM »

Quote from: gellar on October 27, 2009, 05:45:24 PM

Should get here this evening.  I'm likely up for some MP tonight.

Same here!
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« Reply #132 on: October 27, 2009, 08:12:19 PM »

By the way, everyone in this thread better install everything on disc 2!  I want us to have all the options available when we all start testing out the new car flipping physics together. smile
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2009, 08:20:56 PM »

Did anyone else get the Limited Edition?  Is there anything I need to do to activate my VIP status, other than enter the two codes that came with the game?
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« Reply #134 on: October 27, 2009, 08:24:41 PM »

Quote from: gellar on October 27, 2009, 06:38:48 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 06:32:01 PM

Quote from: gellar on October 27, 2009, 06:27:35 PM

Ike - I will race Forza 3 the same way I raced Forza 2.  Cleanly - until I see you.  In which case, it's spinny spinny time.

gellar

I am giddy with anticipation, sir.  I will be home around 8 pm eastern.

I doubt UPS will even have mine delivered by then, but I'll jump on when it does.  My first games will be online, which should be a HOOT AND A HALF.

gelar

Or not, as it got here early.  I guess I'll be on around 8pm EST as well.

gellar
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« Reply #135 on: October 27, 2009, 08:25:10 PM »

120gb hard drive means that everything always gets installed!
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jztemple2
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« Reply #136 on: October 27, 2009, 08:38:16 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 08:20:56 PM

Did anyone else get the Limited Edition?  Is there anything I need to do to activate my VIP status, other than enter the two codes that came with the game?

I got the limited edition. I don't think there's anything other than entering the two code (and a third one from Gamestop for me), but it also might be that XBL recognizes the installed disk content.

I'm finding Hard AI to be a bit too hard, and Medium a bit too easy. I stuck with Medium but turned off the driving assist lines on the tracks. I've driven on half of them before in Forza or Forza 2, and also I find with the lines on I tend to play the color game when braking for a corner. Now, with the Rewind feature, I can go in and if it's too hot, rewind and try again, learning something each time.

So it's Autobrake off, ABS on, STM off, TCS on, manual shift, Medium AI, simulation for damage. And lots of fun so far!
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« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2009, 12:09:21 AM »

Quote from: jztemple2 on October 27, 2009, 07:00:07 PM

Cripes, I just noticed, when I buy a part and sell it back, I get less money! I'm pretty sure in Forza 2 that if you sold a part you had bought you got the total purchase price back, right?

Nope, you got a reduced/used price.
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« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2009, 12:21:25 AM »

For anyone who's gotten the game now, a few questions I have about the setups. Does the setup tweaking now allow you to vary the number of differential clutches, and can you now tweak each wheel individually?
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gellar
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« Reply #139 on: October 28, 2009, 01:45:15 AM »

What the blue fuck?  It requires an install?  FUCK YOU.

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« Reply #140 on: October 28, 2009, 02:22:16 AM »

Quote from: kronovan on October 28, 2009, 12:21:25 AM

For anyone who's gotten the game now, a few questions I have about the setups. Does the setup tweaking now allow you to vary the number of differential clutches, and can you now tweak each wheel individually?

What do you want to tweak in particular?

Quote from: gellar on October 28, 2009, 01:45:15 AM

What the blue fuck?  It requires an install?  FUCK YOU.

Well, you could play without the install if you don't care about having all the cars and tracks...
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« Reply #141 on: October 28, 2009, 02:52:37 AM »

Freakin' bullshit... UPS shows the package was delivered at 7:16pm to my front door, but it's not here.

I called Amazon and they said their usual policy is to let the carrier have 2 days for it to possibly show up, and for me to only call back on Thursday.  Is that normal procedure?  I've never had a missed delivery so far, so I'm not sure what usually happens.  Any advice?
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« Reply #142 on: October 28, 2009, 03:16:41 AM »

Quote from: gellar on October 28, 2009, 01:45:15 AM

What the blue fuck?  It requires an install?  FUCK YOU.

gellar

It requires a small (<3 GB) install of the second disk because there is too much content to install on one disk.  WHAT THE BLUE FUCK?  TOO MUCH CONTENT!

And I have been playing for the last three hours and no one asked me to race.  I saw gellar playing hockey.

You are all disappointments to me.
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« Reply #143 on: October 28, 2009, 05:21:21 AM »

Sorry Ike.  

Played a bit and am pretty impressed overall.  The difficulty is tuned pretty nicely... I haven't won a race yet on Hard - I think it will require a car near the top of the class tree in order to do that, which is FINE by me.  Pretty awesome actually.

I don't like that I have to start in 8th every time and a lot of the new tracks seem WAY overly narrow, but otherwise I like it a lot more than I expected I would.  Also I love that the first car I was given after the initial one was the Fiat 500 Abarth, which is a car I'd buy RIGHT NOW if it was available in the states.  That gets bonus points.

gellar
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« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2009, 09:34:24 AM »

No problem.  We'll get some racing in.

I also noticed that the tracks seem narrow.  It also seems that to be too viable a strategy to knock the other cars out of the way to get into first.  Some races I have a hard time winning if I don't. 

I also feel like the auto-upgrade option takes away some of the fun of upgrading my cars.  I'm concerned that its going to result in everyone having the same cars, especially if everyone is basically winning the same cars and upgrading them the same way. 

On the other hand I'm really loving the 4WD Alfa I won, now upgraded to the top of the E class.
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« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2009, 10:00:19 AM »

Yeah that is a good point about the upgrades. All i do is quick upgrade each car when i need to. I'm level 14 i think and the only car i have bought is a Lambo Countach LP500 as it's my all time favourite car.

I think at some point i will go in and make personla choices for now though as the game is new it's nice to be able to get set up quickly and up to speed and go race.

I do however always do a quick paint job and add my own number plate.
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« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2009, 12:58:52 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 27, 2009, 08:20:56 PM

Did anyone else get the Limited Edition?  Is there anything I need to do to activate my VIP status, other than enter the two codes that came with the game?

I'm still trying to find out what exactly is different with the VIP thingamajig. I got the LE also, entered all the codes, but for some reason, I don't see anything that says "VIP" in the game, so I don't even know if its working properly.
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« Reply #147 on: October 28, 2009, 01:01:15 PM »

Quote from: gellar on October 28, 2009, 05:21:21 AM

Sorry Ike.  

Played a bit and am pretty impressed overall.  The difficulty is tuned pretty nicely... I haven't won a race yet on Hard - I think it will require a car near the top of the class tree in order to do that, which is FINE by me.  Pretty awesome actually.

I don't like that I have to start in 8th every time and a lot of the new tracks seem WAY overly narrow, but otherwise I like it a lot more than I expected I would.  Also I love that the first car I was given after the initial one was the Fiat 500 Abarth, which is a car I'd buy RIGHT NOW if it was available in the states.  That gets bonus points.

gellar

I agree. Why they don't implement some sort of qualifying into racing games is beyond me. It can't be that hard to do.
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« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2009, 01:05:53 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on October 28, 2009, 09:34:24 AM

I also feel like the auto-upgrade option takes away some of the fun of upgrading my cars.  I'm concerned that its going to result in everyone having the same cars, especially if everyone is basically winning the same cars and upgrading them the same way. 

You know you don't have to use autoupgrade, right?  I've been sticking to purchasing parts manually, myself.  I love that you can do engine swaps and drivetrain swaps independently now. Looking forward to trying a FR Skyline.

Also, I'm absolutely LOVING the new cockpit view. I changed the field of view to 70 (also seen 62 recommended) and it's awesome. Can see the entire rear view mirror -and- the side mirror. It's a usable cockpit view!  

One of my first purchases was the Lancia Delta Integrale, and it was a nostalgia trip to instantly recognize the cockpit from driving the car in the game Stunts from back in 1990.

(You change the field of view by turning on multi-screen. After a reset, you'll be able to tweak a FOV setting in the same menu.)
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« Reply #149 on: October 28, 2009, 02:31:39 PM »

Okay, that's a something I'll have to look into.  I like the cockpit view, but don't like how narrow it is, and with the wheel in the demo, there didn't seem to be a way to look around.  Last night, I only had time to install the game, download the free DLC, install disc 2, then run the first race.  I set it to medium with abs and traction control off, braking line on, and wound up taking first.  I had to make use of the rewind twice when I misjudged the distance to an opponent and spun myself out. 

At medium, they're really way too conservative in their braking for corners, and if you brake late and take the corner slightly faster than is strictly safe, you can pretty much pass them every time.  That may prompt me to bump it up to hard.

I did paint my Fit bright pink with pink tinted windows.  I wonder if there's a pink metallic paint.  Pink and sparkly would be awesome!  It's going to be a really tough call to pick between this, Borderlands, and Torchlight.
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« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2009, 02:54:26 PM »

I've been using the cockpit view also.  I'll look into expanding the FOV when I get home.

So, instead of going to the gym this morning, I decided to race.  I finished the first season.  More love for Forza.

As far as the narrow tracks goes, I think that's just because the first couple of series are on "test" tracks.  After the first two series, the tracks are more wide open.  Actually, so far, they seem to all be tracks from F2.  I'm guessing there will be more tracks further into the game.

I'm still racing the medium AI, which requires me to race a good, but not perfect, race.  I've turned off the braking line, and changed the transmission to manual.  I'm all for realism, but I think that using the A button as a pretend clutch takes things too far.

So, to business.

Since it appears that Harkonis has failed us, I will take up the mantle of organizing some online racing.  I'll try to start the festivities around 8 (eastern) tonight.  Make sure I've got your gamertag, or add me to your friends list.  I'll start a thread in the multiplayer forum here.
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« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2009, 04:07:27 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on October 27, 2009, 06:37:33 PM

I'm planning to bounce between both games when CoD comes out. Hopefully we'll be able to at least get a regular Forza night going even when the rest of the holiday deluge hits.

I think I have most of the folks in this thread on my friends list already, but if not my gamertag is also wonderpug.

I need to do some cleaning/reorganizing on my friends list for this game. I think I have you on my friends list, but not sure. I need to get the primary Forza people on so that if we do get a regular night, I can hopefully be available to participate. I really miss our Forza 2 nights. smile
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« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2009, 04:43:53 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on October 28, 2009, 02:22:16 AM

Quote from: kronovan on October 28, 2009, 12:21:25 AM

For anyone who's gotten the game now, a few questions I have about the setups. Does the setup tweaking now allow you to vary the number of differential clutches, and can you now tweak each wheel individually?

What do you want to tweak in particular?

Well 1st of all if I'm on an oval, which there were in F2, I may want different camber, damper and tire pressure settings on 1 particular side of the car. In other words I want to be able to really respond to what telemetry reads are telling me. If they allow for the number of differential clutches to be varied, that combined with proper power-on (acceleration) and power-off (deceleration) ratios would allow me to implement the equivalent of ABS. I personally have never liked the modeling of ABS in any racing sim I've ever tried, but I've really come to appreciate how I could tweak the equivalent in Grand Prix Legends. They also penalized you for using it in F2, so it'd be nice to be able to have the equivalent without the points hit. I realize most Forza players probably don't want to do this sort of thing, but it's part of the fun for me. Turn 10 have hyped how uber setup tweaking will be in F3, so I'm trying to get a sense of how much they've implemented beyond what F2 offered.
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« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2009, 05:13:51 PM »


The always starting in 8th place bugs me.  In 2 you could run prelim laps to up your standing.  Did they just decide that people were too good of drivers to get any better grid standings?  *sigh*  I hate basically bumper-car-ing my way to second or third place and then having a real race there.  These races are too short for me to be really fighting from the back of the pack.
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« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2009, 05:38:20 PM »

I agree they should at least give the option of a qualifier, but in any case I'm pretty sure I read that you start further up the grid as you progress through the game.
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« Reply #155 on: October 28, 2009, 05:45:45 PM »

Which leads me to another complaint...the manual is anemic, and while the on screen help is good, I feel like I'm not going to learn enough of about what I need to succeed in the game *until* I'm already succeeding. 
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« Reply #156 on: October 28, 2009, 05:55:24 PM »

The manual is a notch up from nonexistent.  Notably, it doesn't contain any information on how to install disk 2.

But, you know, left foot gas, right foot brake.  Slow in, fast out.  None of it is that tough to figure out.  It's basically the same racing game we've been playing since the original Gran Turismo.  And the in-game help is actually quite good.
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« Reply #157 on: October 28, 2009, 07:08:10 PM »

The following are musings about some FM3 new features and some other items.

Installing it was something. Installed disk 1 to the hard drive, then installed disk 2 as well. Then downloaded and installed the three DLC; the VIP pack, the day one new tracks and cars, and the Gamestop pre-order bonus. Then once I started the game I found out that I was supposed to installed disk 2 from inside the game, so that took more time. It took me about twenty minutes before I was actually able to start it.

Besides the game and the DLC cards, the Limited Collectors Edition also included two objects. The key ring "fob" is a heavy, stainless steel item about the side of a USB drive with the FM3 logo. Classy. The other object was the 2GB USB drive also with the logo. Oddly, the removable cap has a key ring loop, but not the body. A nice couple of items.

So far I'm very happy with FM3. A lot of the gameplay is like the previous one and there's nothing wrong with that. Handling actually seems to be a bit better, although it's impossible to actually point at what's changed. According to the game guide the ABS is less potent than last year and now represents real world ABS more than an assist. There still seems to be a big gap between medium and hard AI difficulty however.

The cockpit view is great. I didn't think I'd be using it that much but I'm finding that I'm using it for practically every race. The details in the view aren't as extensive as in NFS Shift or Test Drive Unlimited, but it's still pretty nice.

The new vinyl editor gives the ability to design vinyls without having to use a car. The work area has a grid so it's easy to get things aligned. The resultant vinyl group can be saved and uploaded to your storefront. A small but very welcome change is that the grouped vinyls only occupy one box on the layer scroll, rather than each part of the group being in it's own box. This makes working with more complex car designs easier.

Car designs (the combination of paint, vinyls and decals) can be saved to your catalog and uploaded to your storefront. Also photos and replays.

The new storefront system greatly expands the community aspect of FM3. You can post your photos and replays with key words and text descriptions so people can search for and look at them. Additionally, photos and replays will also appear on your "My Forza" page at forzamotorsport.net so you can download them.

The new storefront also provides a place to buy and sell (or give away) vinyl groups and car designs. Importantly both types of items are locked, they cannot be deconstructed to be altered. Nor can you resell them. This protects the artist and make it more appealing to post items without having people duplicate them.

The storefront also allows uploading of setups for purchase or sharing. Setups are specific to make and model. Also, some setups require certain adjustable upgrades and supposedly (although I have not tested it out) trying to install a new setup will provide you an opportunity to automatically install (and pay for) the needed upgrades.

The vinyl groups and car designs can be uploaded with keywords and descriptions. For instance, there are "logo" and "license plate" keywords, so you can search among those particular categories. The "logo" category alone is  a godsend for those of us not artistically gifted. There are some downsides of course. There are now thousands of license plates alone and it can be hard to find something specific. You can sort by cost, most downloaded, highest rated, and a couple of other criteria. It would be nice if they added options to combine sorting criteria, like lowest cost plus highest rated.

The storefront system allows you to set the price and number of copies of your car designs and vinyl groups you upload. Thankfully there are a lot of nice folks out there who share for free. This is important for me since I like to role-play a bit in Forza, not liking to drive a plain car, but not having the skill to do a decent job of car design. Now I can look and find a nice free design.

I think it would be fair to say that the new storefront system will keep FM3 a much more active game even once people start burning out on the Career and MP modes. There's just so much more to be a part of.

Rewind mode is great, but not just for saving your bacon when you screw up. If you didn't get through a corner the way you would have liked to, you can rewind and try it again, over and over, rather than having to lap around the track. Add in the nice telemetry screens and you can analyze to your heart's content every part of a track.

The Auto-upgrade feature adds a nice option to upgrade to performance index limit without having to go through a lot of trial and error. I'm sure that there  will be those who argue with which upgrades are chosen and they might be right, but, *so far*, I haven't seen any that caused me any pain. You also get the opportunity to look at the individual upgrades before you accept the auto-upgrade, although you cannot pick and chose from the list (at least I don't think so, I didn't see that option).

All copies of FM3 include a code to allow download of the Legends Car Pack and Tracks. One track set is the Benchmark tracks, which include ovals, flat ovals and other testing tracks, plus drags strips, 14 total including reverse versions. The other set is the Sidewinder Proving Grounds, which we had in FM2. Sidewinder is a total of 18 tracks, including reverse versions. You can race on all these tracks, but of course they are not part of the career mode.

For those interested, you can download a pack of track layout images here http://samzone.com/downloads/forza/forza3.zip. Note, this zip also contains images of every car in the game (I think that's all of them, 415).

Also in the Free Legends pack are ten cars picked by Turn 10. You can find the list online so I won't repeat it here, but I will mention that one car is the 1958 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa, which is yours for a cool $15 million (yikes!). That pretty much puts it out of reach for me for some time to come, which is sad since I was planning on focusing on collecting Ferraris. Maybe someone will gift one to me?

The VIP car pack, only available with the Limited Collectors Edition, include five unique cars plus five existing cars with special liveries. These latter are also supposedly specially tuned, but I doubt I could tell the difference. Additionally,  supposedly in the future you will be offered the option to download special cars only available to VIPs. There have been posts over at forzamotorsport.net asking if VIP status will be something that can be purchased in the future, but Turn 10 will only say that this is being discussed. I'm thinking that they will make this available as a DLC sometime in the future.

I do have some nits, although they are minor. There are over 400 cars in the game, but a lot of the racing cars are the same but with different liveries. I don't think these should be included in the total count but I don't think they listen to me. And they do count as a separate car in your garage. In the case of the Holden, the only cars are four versions of  the same Commodore VE race car, they don't even have a non-racing version.

Another nit is that FM3 doesn't provide a blank livery version of  the race cars and as far as I know there's no way to remove or repaint the existing liveries. It would be a nice option for painters. I know that it's probably something to do with licensing, but it would be nice.

The two sets of tracks available in the day one DLC can be raced on, but since they aren't in the career system you don't make any money. So until I have enough cash for my zillion cars and upgrades, I'm not motivated to spend any time on those tracks. I wish that Turn 10 had included some career races with a "roll your own" track selector, so I could race on any track in the game.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #158 on: October 28, 2009, 07:20:38 PM »

I wonder if you can win money on those tracks in MP.  It was my understanding that they had greatly expanded the situations under which you could earn money for the campaign.
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Chaz
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« Reply #159 on: October 28, 2009, 08:35:13 PM »

Show off fail...  icon_twisted
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