Forza 2 and MS Racing Wheel question

[The Grue]

I have the wheel now and I was running some races.  I then went to try to tune my car.  However, it doesn't seem like you can control what is normally mapped to the trigger buttons in the menus.  Therefore, I couldn't switch between the different tuning options (tire pressure, damping, sway, etc.) when using the wheel.  I figured maybe I could just turn on a normal controller at controller 2 and navigate the menus with it, but it doesn't work.  Anyone know how to tune cars when you have the wheel hooked up?  It seems like a huge oversight to not be able to tune cars when you are using the wheel, so I have a feeling I must be missing something.

[Misguided]

I have the wheel now and I was running some races.  I then went to try to tune my car.  However, it doesn't seem like you can control what is normally mapped to the trigger buttons in the menus.  Therefore, I couldn't switch between the different tuning options (tire pressure, damping, sway, etc.) when using the wheel.  I figured maybe I could just turn on a normal controller at controller 2 and navigate the menus with it, but it doesn't work.  Anyone know how to tune cars when you have the wheel hooked up?  It seems like a huge oversight to not be able to tune cars when you are using the wheel, so I have a feeling I must be missing something.

I had the same issue when I had the wheel in Need for Speed carbon, except if I recall correctly, I couldn't figure out how to change the camera view.
Might have been PGR3...

[Zinfan]

You aren't missing anything sadly    the wheel is missing some important controls for tuning/painting cars and a controller in position 2 won't work either.  What I do is unplug my wheel and wait for the "please reconnect controller" message to appear at which point I turn on the standard controller and it assumes the #1 spot and I can do what I need to do.  When I'm ready to drive again I take out the battery pack from the controller and plug in my wheel.  It won't take as long as my write-up makes it seem but it still is a pain.

[JuniorDan]

Hey Grue, aside from the obvious issues you are having, how is the driving with the wheel? I really what to get the MS wheel but most of the people in here are opting to play with the controller. what is your take on it?

[Starshifter]

Hey Grue, aside from the obvious issues you are having, how is the driving with the wheel? I really what to get the MS wheel but most of the people in here are opting to play with the controller. what is your take on it?

Juniordan - check out my very brief initial impressions here:  http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,20602.0.html It's the 6th post down.

In short:  I love it!  It turned me, a non-racing videogame fan, into one!  I just picked up Forza 2 tonight.  I've been playing PGR3 & the Dirt demo with the wheel.  It certainly takes at least a half hour to adjust to it.  Once you do there is no looking back.

[Booner]

The pedals act as the triggers, so you can navigate through the tuning screens...but yep, the other missing functions kinda sucks.

[The Grue]

Hey Grue, aside from the obvious issues you are having, how is the driving with the wheel? I really what to get the MS wheel but most of the people in here are opting to play with the controller. what is your take on it?

I like it quite a bit, honestly.  I don't even clamp it to anything like I know some people do and I have no issues with it sliding around or anything.  My wife surprised me with it for our 10 year wedding anniversary and I am glad she did.  It apparently works with Burnout as well, according to my son.

[The Grue]

The pedals act as the triggers, so you can navigate through the tuning screens...but yep, the other missing functions kinda sucks.

Ha, I never tried the pedals.  Thanks for the tip.  I knew there had to be something.

[Booner]

Glad to be of some help.

I'm just x-posting these impressions of the wheel for anyone interested.

I started on the controller, but after a couple days of Forza joy...I just had to get the 360 wheel for full driving immersion, and picked it up on Friday. It was definitely a transition.

The first thing I found was that I was able to be much more precise with the throttle and brake. The second thing was that if you lose it in a turn...it is far harder to correct with the wheel than the little stick, because not only are you having to travel so much further, but also fighting against the  force feedback. You are able to cut a much cleaner line with the wheel...just don't screw up.

I may have around 6-7 hours of actual driving with it now and I'm very pleased and don't think I'd go back to the controller. Precision is so much better and the FF is quite convincing. You get a nice feel for what is happening between your tires and the driving surface. Also, paddle shifting is a real bonus.

Would I make faster times with the controller? I couldn't tell you for sure, but I wouldn't expect to. Now that I'm trying to drive it like an actual car, the difference would be minimal.

Outside of driving, I do miss some of the functionality of the controller, but it's not a big issue to turn it off and switch back and forth.

I'm not sure I could recommend it for someone just looking to post the fastest times, yet I easily could if you are looking for the experience of driving.

[IkeVandergraaf]

I also want to say that I love using the wheel.  I don't know if it makes me any faster, but it makes the game more immersive.  I've now got it clamped to my ironing board as was suggested in the other thread.  Who knew those things could actually be useful!  It's not as stable as I would like, but I like the adjustable height.  Sadly, it is difficult to navigate the menus with it due to the absence of the analog sticks.  The Dpad is a poor substitute.  I have also been shutting off the wheel and using a standard controller if I have a lot of tuning to do, but it's a pain in the ass switching back and forth to test drive.  There's also no way to see a side view of your car if you want to see what your wheels are doing.

[Chaz]

I'm more or less set on getting the wheel in the next few days.  I don't use manual transmission, so is there a decent way to look to the left and right (and possibly back) with the wheel?

[IkeVandergraaf]

I believe you can remap the face buttons to look around.  I haven't done it because I like being able to pull up the damage screen (I seem to need to do that a lot).  If you drive automatic, I think you can set the paddles to look left and right.  You may want to try manual with the wheel though.  The paddles make it a lot easier and you get an extra 5% to race earnings.

[Chaz]

I've tried manual in other racing games, and with other wheels with paddle shifters, and even though I can drive stick in real life, I can't do it fast enough to keep up in racing games.  Plus, seems like every time I race with Hark, at least every other race I'll hear him talking about some kind of shifting problem while using the wheel, so I think I'll stick with auto for now.

[IkeVandergraaf]

I had a weird phantom downshift in a race this morning that damaged my engine.  I was able to win the race, but only by running the AI car off the road.

[Harkonis]

That's interesting, I thought I was the only one who had a wheel that shifted on it's own every now and then.  I'm hoping it's radio interference and not a defective product.

[Purge]

I had a weird phantom downshift in a race this morning that damaged my engine.  I was able to win the race, but only by running the AI car off the road.

And did the AI slash your tires after the race? If they didn't, it's not real "intelligence".

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10080687&catid=23558
$99.99 CAD for the wheel right now + PGR3. (~$94 USD).

[Zinfan]

I mapped the paddles to look left and right, I think it was wheel setting #2.  I know you can also set the x and b buttons to look around if that is the preference, but like you I don't use the manual transmission so the paddles work well (I have seen them "stick" once or twice where I look right and after I  release the paddle the view remains to the right, a quick tap of the paddle resets the view).

[Chaz]

After spending a bunch more time with the wheel, I'm officially recommending it.  All aspects of it are fairly sensitive, but I think you can turn them down in-game, but I don't know that you should.  After getting used to the increased sensitivity, I'm finding my driving much improved.  My lines are smoother, controlling speed is easier to do, skids are easier to avoid since you can feel them, and it's generally much more fun.

The only thing it isn't good for is controlling the camera during replays, and using the paint program.  Tuning became much easier when I figured out you can turn the wheel to change values as well as using the d-pad.

So, if you can swing the price, I heartily recommend the wheel (as long as you're either playing a lot of Forza, or planning on playing other racers too).

[JuniorDan]

I got my wheel from Wal-Mart for $119.00 yesterday and um....yeah it is going to take some getting use to.  I tried it out for an hour yesterday and it just seemed very loose to me and over sensitive with vibrations that did not make me feel like I was in a sim. what so ever . After I discovered the PGR3 game label said install first for drivers, I figured that is what I was missing...same shit nothing changed. my regular controller was looking like a champ. Then I discovered what I taught was the USB plug to use as wired was an actual AC power cord. Oh great I don't have to use batteries plugged it in and Whoooooooo, holy force feedback. This shit is awesome I actually felt like I was driving and can feel the road. I did not have much driving time since I discovered the error of my ways but I will have to try it out again tonight. Oh I need to find a better sitting position to be comfortable with the pedals. How is those gaming chairs?   

[Atragon]

I've got a question for those who have used both...

I've noticed that with the controller there seems to be some speed sensitivity going on, at higher speeds your control input seems diminished (ie, full-right input on the controller != wheels locked to the right). Has anyone else noticed this, and is the situation the same with the wheel? It's irritated me a few times with the controller and I'm thinking of buying a wheel, but I won't if the same crap happens there too.

[Kurt Stevens]

I got my wheel from Wal-Mart for $119.00 yesterday and um....yeah it is going to take some getting use to.  I tried it out for an hour yesterday and it just seemed very loose to me and over sensitive with vibrations that did not make me feel like I was in a sim. what so ever . After I discovered the PGR3 game label said install first for drivers, I figured that is what I was missing...same shit nothing changed. my regular controller was looking like a champ. Then I discovered what I taught was the USB plug to use as wired was an actual AC power cord. Oh great I don't have to use batteries plugged it in and Whoooooooo, holy force feedback. This shit is awesome I actually felt like I was driving and can feel the road. I did not have much driving time since I discovered the error of my ways but I will have to try it out again tonight. Oh I need to find a better sitting position to be comfortable with the pedals. How is those gaming chairs?   

I did the same exact thing. I was pissed for about the first hour I had the wheel. Then I figured out you had to plug it in to get the force feedback. Im glad I'm not the only one to do that. 

[Atragon]

I've got a question for those who have used both...

I've noticed that with the controller there seems to be some speed sensitivity going on, at higher speeds your control input seems diminished (ie, full-right input on the controller != wheels locked to the right). Has anyone else noticed this, and is the situation the same with the wheel? It's irritated me a few times with the controller and I'm thinking of buying a wheel, but I won't if the same crap happens there too.

*bump*

[Chaz]

I haven't noticed it, but then again, if I've got the wheel cranked full right or left, I'm usually out of control already.  Also, if you're moving at higher speed, wouldn't your control input be diminished anyway? Turning the wheel sharply at 90 mph shouldn't do anything other than send your car into a skid.

[Atragon]

If you accidentally go off-road at a high rate of speed...

[IkeVandergraaf]

Then your control input is fucked anyway.

[Atragon]

True, however what I've noticed when viewing telemetry and using the controller as input is that while at speed (>70mph) pushing the stick to the left will only result in ~10? degrees of steering, but when slow (~40mph) the same controller input results in ~90 degrees of steering. Why is this important? I've found myself understeering when driving the Top Secret Supra, a car that normally oversteers like crazy (And I checked, it's not a loss of traction).