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Author Topic: FINALLY! Brothers in Arms Reviewed!  (Read 7628 times)
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« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2005, 04:47:20 PM »

Quote from: "Eco-Logic"

I don't have Live anymore.

I won't be getting Live again, till the Xbox 2 comes out.  (


You will be married by then Eco.  How much do you really expect your wife will let you play on live?

You really don't have a clue what you're getting into, do you?


LD  Tongue      Just messin' with ya!
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« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2005, 05:00:56 PM »

I told her early on that she has to accept that I will likely play video games for many years to come.  She scrapbooks, I play games. smile

I know what you mean though... smile
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« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2005, 05:04:28 PM »

I have to agree with Attadude.  Sorry, I want Call of Duty explosions.  The graphics aren't terrible, pretty good in fact, but I don't get the feeling they're anything that special.  Probably because I work with "NEXT GENARATION!!!" graphics every day smile  

The game is fun though.  The interface for commanding your guys is well done in the game, and they seem to be pretty good at taking cover.  The jury is still out on commanding two squads, as I just hit the mission where you get your second squad (a tank in this mission) last night.  My tank blew up in the first fight, and I quit for the evening.

The only thing that I really, really hate is the Situational Awareness view.  It is so frustrating to have the camera stuck on a few predefined points.  And even more frustrating when you can't swing the camera around a full 360 degrees.  I understand that it's got something to do with line of sight, but it's not clear at all, and trying to see if that pathway around the house is actually a flank path or just a lame dead end is just frustrating to me.  I just want to be able to move the camera around the battlefield freely, or at least with limited freedom based on where I am.

The dialog is really great during the "in-between" level sequences, but I feel it really could be better in the game.  It really smacks of someone who's like "Yeah I watched Band of Brothers last weekend and now I'm going to script this entire game."  Some real cheesy lines, even in the intro where the guy is yelling at the tank to "FUCKING TAKE ME."  I kind of snickered.  There are lots of instances like that where they're like "Yeah, I just popped a Kraut while he was drinking his morning joe, HAR HAR HAR."  The delivery and the voice acting just feels forced.  Good thing shooting guys is hella fun.
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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2005, 05:21:52 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
I have to agree with Attadude.  Sorry, I want Call of Duty explosions.  The graphics aren't terrible, pretty good in fact, but I don't get the feeling they're anything that special.  Probably because I work with "NEXT GENARATION!!!" graphics every day smile  

The game is fun though.  The interface for commanding your guys is well done in the game, and they seem to be pretty good at taking cover.  The jury is still out on commanding two squads, as I just hit the mission where you get your second squad (a tank in this mission) last night.  My tank blew up in the first fight, and I quit for the evening.

The only thing that I really, really hate is the Situational Awareness view.  It is so frustrating to have the camera stuck on a few predefined points.  And even more frustrating when you can't swing the camera around a full 360 degrees.  I understand that it's got something to do with line of sight, but it's not clear at all, and trying to see if that pathway around the house is actually a flank path or just a lame dead end is just frustrating to me.  I just want to be able to move the camera around the battlefield freely, or at least with limited freedom based on where I am.

The dialog is really great during the "in-between" level sequences, but I feel it really could be better in the game.  It really smacks of someone who's like "Yeah I watched Band of Brothers last weekend and now I'm going to script this entire game."  Some real cheesy lines, even in the intro where the guy is yelling at the tank to "FUCKING TAKE ME."  I kind of snickered.  There are lots of instances like that where they're like "Yeah, I just popped a Kraut while he was drinking his morning joe, HAR HAR HAR."  The delivery and the voice acting just feels forced.  Good thing shooting guys is hella fun.


Have you noticed that you snicker at ALL the inappropriate moments in movies??  :twisted:  Anyways, good impressions, im thinking to pick this up and maybe we can live it today.
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« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2005, 05:30:07 PM »

Quote
...we can live it today.

I hope you have more luck than i did.  Ill be trying it again tonight.  By the way my Xbox live tag is AttAdude1 (i own attadude as well but cant make the bastards give me my account back for some reason))
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2005, 07:01:30 PM »

Atta.
Add Girr at your earliest conveneince. Given how shitty I feel and the fact that I just walked in wiht the game and need some SP action first, it will likely be evening before i am ready to play, but we can make a tentative time here or you can contact me on Xfire.
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2005, 07:01:56 PM »

I have a question if anyone knows-

What effect does having one of your sqaud die have on the game and campaign? Do you lose the guy forever? Do you not get a medal for completing the mission?
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2005, 07:17:12 PM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
I have a question if anyone knows-

What effect does having one of your sqaud die have on the game and campaign? Do you lose the guy forever? Do you not get a medal for completing the mission?


I cant answer that question.  if some one dies, i reload.  I refuse to let some kraut kill one of my boys.  that is not gonna happen.

Ill add ya tonight rage.
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2005, 07:26:40 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"
Quote from: "flyinj"
I have a question if anyone knows-

What effect does having one of your sqaud die have on the game and campaign? Do you lose the guy forever? Do you not get a medal for completing the mission?


I cant answer that question.  if some one dies, i reload.  I refuse to let some kraut kill one of my boys.  that is not gonna happen.

Ill add ya tonight rage.

Thats awesome. I cant tell you how many games I play like that. NONE of my guys will go done.

FlyinJ, I read a review that said there is no penalty towards the long term aspects of the game to losing a guy, they come back the next mission-so you can feel free to waste your guys at the end of a mission if you want. NO clue how this may or may not affect medals.
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2005, 07:41:12 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Quote from: "AttAdude"
Quote from: "flyinj"
I have a question if anyone knows-

What effect does having one of your sqaud die have on the game and campaign? Do you lose the guy forever? Do you not get a medal for completing the mission?


I cant answer that question.  if some one dies, i reload.  I refuse to let some kraut kill one of my boys.  that is not gonna happen.

Ill add ya tonight rage.

Thats awesome. I cant tell you how many games I play like that. NONE of my guys will go done.

FlyinJ, I read a review that said there is no penalty towards the long term aspects of the game to losing a guy, they come back the next mission-so you can feel free to waste your guys at the end of a mission if you want. NO clue how this may or may not affect medals.


I did the same thing with the original Ghost Recon.  I prolly got 2x-3x the play time on that game because i was so hard headed about loosing a guy.

This game however makes me want to play that way.  Its not some arbitrary choice i made just because im good at what i do.  I want to do it because the game makes me care about my squad.  i realize some people dont like the voice acting and dialoge, but im actualy digging it.  I know the name of every single squad mate, and i can id whos talking by thier voice.  That really speaks volumes about how good this game is (at least for me).  Most of the time in these squad games, like Ghost recon or any of the Rainbox six games the people in question are always defined by thier stats, i have no idea who the hell they are.  The only guy i knew from the rainbow six games was my boy ding, and again only because he was the definition of a badass as definded by his stats.


Fav line so far: "Baker i always thought you where a shy quiet poetic young man.  now i realize you are a shy quiet poetic young man who happens to kill anyone who gets in his way!"
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2005, 08:00:16 PM »

Yeah I get pissed off and reload when my guys die too.  Should probably just keep on playing.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2005, 09:19:41 PM »

XYZ was awesome.

Man, MG'ers are tough.  Those germans sure know where to put them to shred you up...
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2005, 09:28:17 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
XYZ was awesome.

Man, MG'ers are tough.  Those germans sure know where to put them to shred you up...


Yeah i kept thinking the same thing to my self.   You know how in the movies there is always that poor bastard that walks out into the street only to get mowed down by a mg half a second later?  yeah im that guy.

Just wait till you lay eyes on the big mostly empty field thats coverd by MG fire, now that was a bitch of a level.
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2005, 10:39:05 PM »

The reason I ask is:

*6th mission spoiler*




*



*


*



At the end of this mission, where you are in a small courtyard with a tank in it. You are supposed to "kill off the infantry before engaging the tank".

The problem is, one of your squad members will always be exposed to the tank main gun if you keep both fireteams in the courtyard. The reason being that even if you tell both fireteams to stay inside the "protected" awning thing in the courtyard, one of them always runs out into the courtyard itself. This always results in the death of one of your guys.

The only way I could pass this section without squaddies dying is if I told my assault squad to run down an allyway and do nothing.

This is the only problem I've had with this game so far. It reminded me of Daikatana, where you had to lock your teammates in a closet, complete the level alone, then run back and open the closet letting them out. Otherwise they would ALWAYS die and you'd lose the level.
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2005, 01:29:37 AM »

one thing that dissapoints me, is that if you squad mate dies, he'll be back on the next level.  So much for contiunity.  Retarded game design.
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2005, 03:07:11 AM »

How would you suggest they get around that?

Customize all 25 levels to account for having 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 squad mates depending on how many the player has left? Do you know how hard it is to balance a level correctly for just a single set of known assets? Let alone 5-6 potential variables?

Or just make it impossibly hard to continue, forcing the player to start the entire campaign over?

Which then is the "retarded game design"?
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2005, 05:33:47 AM »

Quote from: "flyinj"
How would you suggest they get around that?

Customize all 25 levels to account for having 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 squad mates depending on how many the player has left? Do you know how hard it is to balance a level correctly for just a single set of known assets? Let alone 5-6 potential variables?

Or just make it impossibly hard to continue, forcing the player to start the entire campaign over?

Which then is the "retarded game design"?


There are plenty of games that have managed to maintain balance while allowing tons of variables in what you brought in.  For example, the PC game Jagged Alliance 2, from 5 years ago let you build your own six man squad from a choice of about 40 different mercs covering a wide range of specialties.

The problem with the way BIA does it is that it feels like I'm playing a series of "tactical situations" that are seperate from each other instead of feeling like I'm a squad leader in a multi-day campaign.  The way the game transitions between missions contributes to that feeling.  That worked for Call of Duty because you knew you weren't playing the same character each time - in BIA you are.
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2005, 06:37:57 AM »

FlyinJ - Just got past that mission tonight.  Took me literally like 20 tries.  My basic strategy was to send the fire squad out towards the barrels or crates near the truck on the left side of the map, and put the assault squad behind the barrels in the "protected" area.  I picked off the infantry while sneaking out towards and around the truck, then grabbed the panzerfaust and basically played whack-a-mole with the tank.  Up and fire, down and cover, over and over again.  Took about five hits to the tank front IIRC, but I finished it.  I don't know if my guys ran out or not, but as long as I was shooting the tank, it paid attention to me, not them.
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2005, 07:27:32 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "flyinj"
How would you suggest they get around that?

Customize all 25 levels to account for having 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 squad mates depending on how many the player has left? Do you know how hard it is to balance a level correctly for just a single set of known assets? Let alone 5-6 potential variables?

Or just make it impossibly hard to continue, forcing the player to start the entire campaign over?

Which then is the "retarded game design"?


There are plenty of games that have managed to maintain balance while allowing tons of variables in what you brought in.  For example, the PC game Jagged Alliance 2, from 5 years ago let you build your own six man squad from a choice of about 40 different mercs covering a wide range of specialties.

The problem with the way BIA does it is that it feels like I'm playing a series of "tactical situations" that are seperate from each other instead of feeling like I'm a squad leader in a multi-day campaign.  The way the game transitions between missions contributes to that feeling.  That worked for Call of Duty because you knew you weren't playing the same character each time - in BIA you are.


Sure, but that's exactly my point. Jagged alliance/Xcom/Silent Storm were games based around strategic decisions. They also had a library of limited tiles for every map, and RPG elements that allowed you to build up new characters to replaces your fallen soldiers before progressing the story using random encounters.

Now, it would be fantastic if someone could make an action/strategic game hybrid as fleshed out visually, with as much variance as Brothers in Arms does, as well as piling the strategic and RPG trappings of Jagged Alliance.

Unfortunately, that type of project would take years and years to pull off.

Brothers in Arms does an amazing job in what it's trying to accomplish. What they unfortunately couldn't tackle given the scope of their project is hardly a "retarded design decision".
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2005, 04:39:35 PM »

Quote from: "naednek"
one thing that dissapoints me, is that if you squad mate dies, he'll be back on the next level.  So much for contiunity.  Retarded game design.


Poor old Hartsock has died many times under my command.  But he always comes back.  I agree that it is a little disappointing but to maintain the storyline I guess it can slide.

Cool thing I noticed last night -- I had to make my way through this small village and the Halo-2 in me took it straight on and I took pretty heavy damage but succeeded (Hartsock died though).  But, after clearing the area I started looking around and was extremely impressed with the level design.  I realized that I had several other options to attack the area from going around buildings, hopping over obstacles to spots with a better flanking angle, go through buldings, go up to the second floor and snipe down at krauts, the whole nine yards.

So, a subtle yet extremely cool aspect is that the levels aren't designed for a "correct" way to attack, rather they leave it open to th eplayer to go at it with their own style.  I am very impressed to have an FPS that can combine strategy and shooter aspects so uniquely... Now time to go play more.
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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2005, 06:19:47 PM »

I`m still enjoying this lots too. The sp is great, I`m not very far into it yet though. The MP is also loads of fun, with the right people. And that issue of server full on live! is a pain in the ass, but I`ve only seen it once or twice. So I`m thinking you had bad luck if you tried for a half hour without getting in. Tonight I`m too busy to play, but I`m going to make sure I play more of this soon,lots more of it, and real soon. Great game so far.
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« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2005, 06:25:38 PM »

Can you believe after all this buildup and getting a great deal with tradein on the XBox version I still havent played it! I was involved with a couple other games, and I have been trying to force myself to start finishing the games I am playing instead of playing several at a time. Anyways, so today is the day!!
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« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2005, 06:03:39 AM »

Ugh, it's a real bitch escorting this damn tank.
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« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2005, 07:51:02 AM »

I give up.  I guess I blow ass at commanding troops.

"I was never born to be a squad leader..." is right!
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« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2005, 02:45:38 PM »

Ive been playing on hard no crosshairs and no suppression icons. I am just a couple of missions past the Tank in the Court Yard bit and my mission is to take a farm. I can say with out any shame at all that the germans have no problem kicking my ass alot of the time. With that said its still doable and very very fun. Ive graduated from normal Infantry to Fallshirmajager troops, and let me tell you thats a whole different world.

They not only shoot better but they show more awarness to the concept of flanking both in practice and in putting up a good and brave defense when they are flanked. I dont see them run out into the open only to get wacked by the fire team. With these troops ive seen more team work between units as well. Its not totaly common, but there have been very specific instances where they have both responded to a flank by moving to pin my assault team, and i am seeing them flank my fire team as well. its definatly forced me to keep on my toes personaly as well and learn to command my troops with precision even if i am a long distance away from them.

All in all a very cool game and in my opinion a much better "battle field simulator than FSW was even when you had it in army mode.

Multiplayer however is still a bust.
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« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2005, 03:07:27 PM »

Quote
Ive been playing on hard no crosshairs and no suppression icons. I am just a couple of missions past the Tank in the Court Yard bit and my mission is to take a farm. I can say with out any shame at all that the germans have no problem kicking my ass alot of the time. With that said its still doable and very very fun. Ive graduated from normal Infantry to Fallshirmajager troops, and let me tell you thats a whole different world.


I'm in the same mission - you aren't kidding about the troops, the Germans are no longer "Let me pop my head around this corner" stupid - they also reposition without standing up to expose themselves.  I'm loving this game...but I'm also realizing that I'm probably half way through it. frown
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« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2005, 03:35:57 PM »

I'm on the "mist mission."  Can't remember which one it is but it's the one where your artillery lays down all this smoke cover for you.  Pain in the butt mission, I tell you what.
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« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2005, 04:15:21 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Quote
Ive been playing on hard no crosshairs and no suppression icons. I am just a couple of missions past the Tank in the Court Yard bit and my mission is to take a farm. I can say with out any shame at all that the germans have no problem kicking my ass alot of the time. With that said its still doable and very very fun. Ive graduated from normal Infantry to Fallshirmajager troops, and let me tell you thats a whole different world.


I'm in the same mission - you aren't kidding about the troops, the Germans are no longer "Let me pop my head around this corner" stupid - they also reposition without standing up to expose themselves.  I'm loving this game...but I'm also realizing that I'm probably half way through it. frown


Yup remember when just being on the OST troop's flank was enough to scare em into running out into a steady stream of suppressing fire.  Gone are those days.   Im pretty impressed with the AI in this game.  Its one thing to make the game harder as you go.  You know its good however when they model historical facts into the ai so its not only doing things the right way, but its also screwing up in the right way as well.
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« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2005, 04:29:44 PM »

Are you guys experiencing some of the online bugs I've been reading about? Voice echo, ghost teammates, spawning without weapons, failure to spawn, sound glitches, etc. Not all of those occur in each game, of course, but I've seen them mentioned.
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« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2005, 05:56:30 PM »

Is this game one hit one kill? Or is it like MOH where you can get shot 300 times?
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« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2005, 06:19:41 PM »

You can get shot maybe three or four times.  One spray from an MG machine gun will lie you flat on your back before you can hear the bullets, though.
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« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2005, 06:24:35 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"
Ive been playing on hard no crosshairs and no suppression icons. I am just a couple of missions past the Tank in the Court Yard bit and my mission is to take a farm. I can say with out any shame at all that the germans have no problem kicking my ass alot of the time. With that said its still doable and very very fun. Ive graduated from normal Infantry to Fallshirmajager troops, and let me tell you thats a whole different world.

They not only shoot better but they show more awarness to the concept of flanking both in practice and in putting up a good and brave defense when they are flanked. I dont see them run out into the open only to get wacked by the fire team. With these troops ive seen more team work between units as well. Its not totaly common, but there have been very specific instances where they have both responded to a flank by moving to pin my assault team, and i am seeing them flank my fire team as well. its definatly forced me to keep on my toes personaly as well and learn to command my troops with precision even if i am a long distance away from them.

All in all a very cool game and in my opinion a much better "battle field simulator than FSW was even when you had it in army mode.

Multiplayer however is still a bust.

German paratroopers were nasty, nasty infantry, many of which used that ridiculously advanced scoped automatic rifle. Anyways, this sounds totally cool.
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2005, 06:50:24 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Quote from: "AttAdude"
Ive been playing on hard no crosshairs and no suppression icons. I am just a couple of missions past the Tank in the Court Yard bit and my mission is to take a farm. I can say with out any shame at all that the germans have no problem kicking my ass alot of the time. With that said its still doable and very very fun. Ive graduated from normal Infantry to Fallshirmajager troops, and let me tell you thats a whole different world.

They not only shoot better but they show more awarness to the concept of flanking both in practice and in putting up a good and brave defense when they are flanked. I dont see them run out into the open only to get wacked by the fire team. With these troops ive seen more team work between units as well. Its not totaly common, but there have been very specific instances where they have both responded to a flank by moving to pin my assault team, and i am seeing them flank my fire team as well. its definatly forced me to keep on my toes personaly as well and learn to command my troops with precision even if i am a long distance away from them.

All in all a very cool game and in my opinion a much better "battle field simulator than FSW was even when you had it in army mode.

Multiplayer however is still a bust.

German paratroopers were nasty, nasty infantry, many of which used that ridiculously advanced scoped automatic rifle. Anyways, this sounds totally cool.


Ive been looking for a FG42 but have yet to find one.
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« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2005, 07:29:27 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I give up.  I guess I blow ass at commanding troops.

"I was never born to be a squad leader..." is right!


if you would explain your situation, id be happy to offer some adive.
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« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2005, 04:03:24 AM »

Hey guys, just curious if it has split-screen co-op?  I know it has split-screen but I can't figure out if it's co-op or not (by reading the GS review, this forum, and the company's site).

Rob
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Sarkus
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« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2005, 05:36:26 AM »

I'm really having a hard time getting into this game.  I have to force myself to sit down to play it then usually do just one mission and decide to call it a night.  Perhaps I should have waited for the PC version, because part of my problem is that the graphics just seem "fuzzy".  I can't even tell where the targeting cursor is half the time.  I'm thinking that finishing the Call of Duty PC expansion so recently was a mistake.

Also, I'm not that impressed with the level designs.  Let's see, machine gun in the street.  Look for only alley that's not a dead end, follow around, flank enemy.  Repeat.
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« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2005, 06:39:24 AM »

It gets a lot more open as you go on, about half way through the game things really open up and you face a lot more difficult enemies.

But yes, it's probably better to wait for the PC version as the game was initially developed on the PC, it'll probably look a lot better with high res textures and interface.
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AttAdude
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« Reply #77 on: March 09, 2005, 02:58:12 PM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I can't even tell where the targeting cursor is half the time.  


Targeting cursor? U mean you arent using the iron sights?

Keep in mind you are still in the "tutorial" phase.  that mg was set up like that to teach you how they work and how to deal with them.  Later on in the game specificly in "Buying The Farm" you wil be wishing there was a nice alley for you to go down.
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Harpua3
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« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2005, 08:37:23 PM »

Quote from: "AttAdude"
Quote from: "Sarkus"
I can't even tell where the targeting cursor is half the time.  


Targeting cursor? U mean you arent using the iron sights?

Keep in mind you are still in the "tutorial" phase.  that mg was set up like that to teach you how they work and how to deal with them.  Later on in the game specificly in "Buying The Farm" you wil be wishing there was a nice alley for you to go down.


 I`m also confused by some of these statements. The graphics aren`t hl2 , h2 or doom3 graphics, but they aren`t bad. I have a high end pc and I play alot and I`m not bummed by the graphics in this game. Sure the textures aren`t great and a sky here or there is kinda ugly, but then there`s alot that looks good to me. It`s not super bright, which I like. It shouldn`t look bright really, it looks like I think it should...Gritty and whatnot. There isn`t a targeting cursor by default, and it`s best that way I think. And he is right, that`s basically the tutorial phase, and it REALLY opens up. This game flat out rocks. I`ve played all of the wwII PC shooters and this thing IMO, is better. And really fresh in comparision. Good stuff it is!!!
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Sarkus
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« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2005, 03:28:40 AM »

I figured out the targeting cursor thing - turns out it wasn't on at all.  :-)

Anyway, I don't know how to describe it, but it just seems to me that playing BIA on a TV (regular AV, not SVideo or hi-def) is just not crisp enough.  It's weird because I have not had problems with other shooters on the XBox versus PC, but for this game it is just really bugging me.  It just feels too low res for this type of game, probably because of playing Call of Duty on PC.
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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.
Syndey: That's alright.  I have both.

- American Dad
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