Final Fantasy Tactics WotL?

[Raintitan]

I have a question for the group. I'm getting ready to go to India for a week (work) and as a result will be spending about 40+ hours on a plane in the next eight days.

I'm contemplating between FFT and Jeanne Darc...and was wondering what the group thought might be best for someone who has played neither and is new to tactical games like this.

Thanks,
R

[warning]

I have a question for the group. I'm getting ready to go to India for a week (work) and as a result will be spending about 40+ hours on a plane in the next eight days.

I'm contemplating between FFT and Jeanne Darc...and was wondering what the group thought might be best for someone who has played neither and is new to tactical games like this.

Thanks,
R

I'm thinking Jeanne D'Arc is better suited to someone new to the genre.

[KC]

I agree with Warning.  Jeanne D'Arc is a lot more newbie friendly.

[TheMissingLink]

Jeanne d'Arc, definitely.

I was bored to tears by the game, but I've played a mega-ton of SRPGs and it was too vanilla for me.

FFT WotL, on the other hand, is awesome

[Raintitan]

Thanks for the feedback! I will start with Jean...

R

[Gratch]

Got a chance to put in a few more hours over the last couple days, and am falling in love with it all over again.  I had forgotten how brutally hard it was, and am really having to adjust my playing strategies.  5 hours in, and I've already lost multiple battles.  This isn't a bad thing, mind you, just something very different from the past few SRPG's I've played.  My main gripe right now is the massive amount of slow-down.   Anything with particle effects takes forever.  If you cast a Cure spell and hit 4 party members, just plan on putting the PSP down for 30 seconds while it goes through the animations.  Really the only negative I can think of for this iteration of FFT.

[semiconscious]

Got a chance to put in a few more hours over the last couple days, and am falling in love with it all over again.  I had forgotten how brutally hard it was, and am really having to adjust my playing strategies.  5 hours in, and I've already lost multiple battles.  This isn't a bad thing, mind you, just something very different from the past few SRPG's I've played...

likewise...

finished chapter 1, & the idea that i actually finished the game 3 years ago continues to amaze me (i mean, i was younger/sharper then, but not by a whole lot...) - it's extremely challenging (tho never impossibly so if you set yourself up right). used to be, when i'd think of the greatest ps1 games i'd played, i'd usually consider titles like mgs, re2, or final fantasy ix, but a few days with fft has made me realize that, even minus the added goodies, this game, story/character/music/gameplay-wise, belongs right up there with the best of them - it's that just-about-perfectly done...

i'm pretty sure i'm playing much more deliberately than i did the first time, making sure my characters master certain of the lower job skills before moving on, & making what i think are smarter choices for secondary jobs (which, right now, are either white or black mage) - combined with a bit of grinding, it feels like i'm building a more durable group than i did the first go-round, when i tended (spoony bard that i was) to jump jobs as soon as they came available (which must've also worked, tho hell if i can figure out how at this point )...

[warning]

I'm running the 3.52 M33-4 custom firmware and I bought this game tonight.  I can verify that this runs perfectly both from the UMD as well as from an ISO rip that I made from my game.

[TheMissingLink]

Wooooow, the AI is BRUTAL.

For instance, my archer gets taken down, so I'm thinking, "Okay, 3 more turns, I can wipe out these baddies..." but they run AWAY from you!!

Little bastards!!

[Destructor]

So, here's a question - since the game is pretty much the exact same thing as the PS1 version (short of widescreen support and a few extra little things), why do reviewers complain about the slowdown in the game?

Or in other words - aren't you better off just ripping your PS1 game and play it under PS1 emulation on the PSP?

[Kevin Grey]

So, here's a question - since the game is pretty much the exact same thing as the PS1 version (short of widescreen support and a few extra little things), why do reviewers complain about the slowdown in the game?

Or in other words - aren't you better off just ripping your PS1 game and play it under PS1 emulation on the PSP?

Slowdown is supposedly worse than the PS1 game because it's basically running under emulation instead of being native to PSP hardware.  Same reason that Valkyrie Profile had slowdown on PSP that wasn't present on the PS1 version.

As far as being better off ripping the PS1 game- yeah but you'd miss out on the new additions (cutscenes, new translation, some other things) so I suppose it depends on how important those aspects are to you. 

[KePoW]

plus there are people who don't mod their hardware...I don't even know how any of that stuff works and wouldn't want to

isn't it done basically just for pirating stuff?

[Kevin Grey]

isn't it done basically just for pirating stuff?

On the PSP, absolutely not.  I buy all of my games but still love my modded PSP.  For me it's all about emulation.  I can rip my PS1 games to the memory card and play them in portable form and, on the small screen, the graphics hold up substantially better than they do playing PS1 games on a HDTV.

For those who want to rip their UMDs to memory sticks, that allows you to play legally purchased games with the CPU unlocked (ie 333 Mhz instead of the 222 Mhz that was the standard until just recently) which improves framerates in a lot of games plus running from the memory stick drastically improves load times (another sore point in a lot of PSP software).

Honestly, playing legitimately purchased PSP games is a flat out better experience on a modded PSP. 

[KePoW]

isn't it done basically just for pirating stuff?

On the PSP, absolutely not.  I buy all of my games but still love my modded PSP.  For me it's all about emulation.  I can rip my PS1 games to the memory card and play them in portable form and, on the small screen, the graphics hold up substantially better than they do playing PS1 games on a HDTV.

For those who want to rip their UMDs to memory sticks, that allows you to play legally purchased games with the CPU unlocked (ie 333 Mhz instead of the 222 Mhz that was the standard until just recently) which improves framerates in a lot of games plus running from the memory stick drastically improves load times (another sore point in a lot of PSP software).

Honestly, playing legitimately purchased PSP games is a flat out better experience on a modded PSP. 

ok I have no doubt that you personally use it for legit purposes Kevin

but given the way you described how the process works, if you can 'rip' PS1 discs and UMDs to memory sticks... then can't anyone on the internet just DL images of these to memory sticks and play them on modded PSPs?

like I said, I don't know anything about the handheld mod scene.  however, I do know about the PC ISO scene, cause I used to pirate computer games when I was a kid.  and all of the justifications you stated could just as well be said by pirates...I mean it's the same thing as coming up with a reason as to why drive mounting software is 'legit'.  or no-CD executables.  or ripping DVDs to a hard drive

all of them can be used by legit owners to improve their experience, sure.  but what do the majority of the people on the internet use it for...?

having said that, playing games directly off a memory stick does sound like a big improvement.  I didn't know you could do that, how big are UMD games?  I thought they were bigger than the PSP memory stick

[Kevin Grey]

Can it be used for piracy?  Of course.  But that doesn't mean that you need to be a pirate to mod the PSP and get value out of it which is what I was responding to.  In the case of the PSP it's not just basically for pirating stuff.

PC is a little different IMO.  Yeah, it's nice not to play with the disc in the drive.  Which is why there are sites like Gamecopyworld and services like Game Jackal that serve the "legitimate" gamer who wants a better experience.  People who are interested in true piracy don't use those sites and services because the ISO downloads they get already include all of that packaged in.

I can enjoy all of the benefits mentioned above on the PSP without ever once needing to out to some dark corner of the internet or needing any sort of file sharing.

I can quite easily recommend that any person with a PSP mod it.  You will get a flat out better user experience from it.

You can get memory sticks up to 4 Gigs and maybe even more.  UMDs max capacity is just north of 1 Gig IIRC.  So that's another benefit for modding- rip several games to a single memory card and no need for disc swapping.  Obviously a very attractive option in a portable. 

[warning]

You can get memory sticks up to 4 Gigs and maybe even more.  UMDs max capacity is just north of 1 Gig IIRC.  So that's another benefit for modding- rip several games to a single memory card and no need for disc swapping.  Obviously a very attractive option in a portable. 

The PSP Final Fantasy Tactics game has a size of about 400 mb.  I can fit that, Jeanne D'Arc (1 gig), Hot Shots Golf (300-400 mb I think) and more on my 4 gig memory stick.  I don't have to deal with the rattling of the UMD drive, loading times are great and I can play any of those games from my memory stick without having to take the disc along or swap discs to change games.

[Destructor]

You can get memory sticks up to 4 Gigs and maybe even more.  UMDs max capacity is just north of 1 Gig IIRC.  So that's another benefit for modding- rip several games to a single memory card and no need for disc swapping.  Obviously a very attractive option in a portable. 

The PSP Final Fantasy Tactics game has a size of about 400 mb.  I can fit that, Jeanne D'Arc (1 gig), Hot Shots Golf (300-400 mb I think) and more on my 4 gig memory stick.  I don't have to deal with the rattling of the UMD drive, loading times are great and I can play any of those games from my memory stick without having to take the disc along or swap discs to change games.

Exactly. This is exactly why I have a modded PSP as well. Although I only have a 2GB stick, you'll find that a lot of games (especially once you compress them) sit at around the 400-500MB range each. Some games are a LOT smaller (Puzzle Quest is like 90MB), and some far bigger (most RPGs).

Heck - PS1 games tend to be bigger than PSP games. Why I generally don't carry those around with me. To answer your question though - yes, there's nothing stopping somebody with a modded PSP to just down PSP and PS1 ISOs off of the net.

[semiconscious]

just had my first encounter with a group that incuded a couple of summoners, & it needs to be said: this friggin' game is utterly, thoroughly fan-tastic!...

[TheMissingLink]

just had my first encounter with a group that incuded a couple of summoners, & it needs to be said: this friggin' game is utterly, thoroughly fan-tastic!...

...and hard! 

But a very good time.  Having tried to get into FFT a couple times previous, I'm already further than I ever have been.

[The Grue]

One complaint about this game is the Guest AI is kind of crappy.  I was on one of the first couple of battles and the dudes I had as guests would run away from the enemy and waste their turns.  Not impressed.

[semiconscious]

One complaint about this game is the Guest AI is kind of crappy.  I was on one of the first couple of battles and the dudes I had as guests would run away from the enemy and waste their turns.  Not impressed.

hunh,... i just figured they were being cowardly ...

[Gratch]

One complaint about this game is the Guest AI is kind of crappy.  I was on one of the first couple of battles and the dudes I had as guests would run away from the enemy and waste their turns.  Not impressed.

I have the opposite problem.  My guests are typically a few levels lower than the rest of my characters, but they still insist on charging in headfirst against any enemy.  Keeping them alive becomes a big problem.

One odd thing I've noticed is the huge number of misses by my characters in critical situations.  Seems like if I'm preparing a killing blow on an enemy, my characters miss quite frequently - even when the hit percentages are up in the 80-90% range.  Wouldn't bother me if it were consistent, but it only seems to happen when I'm applying the final smackdown.

[semiconscious]

I have the opposite problem.  My guests are typically a few levels lower than the rest of my characters, but they still insist on charging in headfirst against any enemy.  Keeping them alive becomes a big problem.

yeah, that guy you rescue early on definitely has suicidal tendencies (&, in my game, ends up spending most of the battles just lying there with little lights over his head)...

One odd thing I've noticed is the huge number of misses by my characters in critical situations.  Seems like if I'm preparing a killing blow on an enemy, my characters miss quite frequently - even when the hit percentages are up in the 80-90% range.  Wouldn't bother me if it were consistent, but it only seems to happen when I'm applying the final smackdown.

not really far in, but haven't experienced this yet...

[Lee]

Yeah I agree on the guests. I really hate them because it makes it very hard to set up a strategy because you have to go in to save their asses all the time.

Question: Your weapon stat (the R/L) lists the attack value and then the chance to block ie: R 3 +5%. Does the weapon always help you block, or only if you are using the "parry" skill? In other words if I am not using parry, should I even worry about the weapon block chance? So far parry seems to be pretty worthless and counter attack seems to be better.

Oh, another question , looking through the manual it says you will lose a character if his bravery drops too low or his faith gets to high. I have seen the values change, but what effects them? Playing a melee class makes bravery go up and vice versa?

[Gratch]

Question: Your weapon stat (the R/L) lists the attack value and then the chance to block ie: R 3 +5%. Does the weapon always help you block, or only if you are using the "parry" skill? In other words if I am not using parry, should I even worry about the weapon block chance? So far parry seems to be pretty worthless and counter attack seems to be better.

I've never found Parry to be particularly useful.  It slightly increases your block chance, but not enough to really make a difference.  Getting a "Counter" skill (i.e. Counter Tackle) is a much better choice.

Oh, another question , looking through the manual it says you will lose a character if his bravery drops too low or his faith gets to high. I have seen the values change, but what effects them? Playing a melee class makes bravery go up and vice versa?

The whole Brave and Faith thing is a strange game mechanic, and I've never been exactly sure what affects the values.  FWIW, it's typically not something you have to worry about this until quite late in the game.  On the original version, I played 55 hours with the same characters and never had this become an issue.  One of the later classes (Mediator, iirc) has skills that will increase Brave and decrease Faith if the values get too high or low. 

[semiconscious]

just finished the gallows/castle battles, &, damn, this game has some great villains! (& i don't mean bosses, cuz i haven't even fought one yet) - enough great villains (already) for several games, actually. creating a nasty/despicable bad guy is one thing, but this's the rare game that really gives them substance & individuality (a doubly-amazing feat considering they're all just tiny guys with big heads). i enjoyed the effort to do something similar in ffxii, but it works to much greater effect for me in fft...

once again, i've got ramza maxing out as a monk, & am really enjoying having a thief, something i'm pretty sure i passed on the first time thru...

[TheMissingLink]

I am truly loving my playtime with this one.

I was stuck on a particular battle and finally went into it with a set strategy, stuck to it, and beat it without losing a member of my team (although my somewhat retarded guest AI character got knocked out...).  It was incredibly satisfying.

Really enjoying the job system and the different options I have in creating my party.

[semiconscious]

Really enjoying the job system and the different options I have in creating my party.

finished chapter 2, &'ve spent the last 3 days off-story putting together my core 5-member team, job-wise, for the rest of the game. there're so many ways to go it's kinda nuts, but, once again, having a couple ninjas has ended up being pretty damn irresistible. grinding's still boring at times, but, mixed in with some errands, some poaching, & some enemy conversion (another thing i think i passed on first time around), it's never as bad as many other games i've played thru...

now, if only i could keep those damn chocobos from reproducing like rabbits...

[Gratch]

Just finished Chapter 1 last night at around 12 hours.  This time around, I'm really focusing on gaining key skills from each character class before jumping to something new.  I'm a bit concerned that I will end up lacking in abilities at some point, but I'm trying to keep a pretty good balance of skills between the 6 party members. 

I can't say enough how awesome the new translation is.  Some of the prose is a bit heavy-handed, but it the story makes so much more sense this time around. 

[kadnod]

now, if only i could keep those damn chocobos from reproducing like rabbits...

They're practically Tribbles!  I'm in part 3 and have to boot one from the party every other battle. 

[TheMissingLink]

The end of chapter 1 is absolutely owning me.

The battle with:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Argath

I'm really not even getting close to defeating him - stupid auto-potion spell.  What strategies did you guys use to beat this part because it's hard!!

[semiconscious]

The end of chapter 1 is absolutely owning me.

The battle with:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Argath

I'm really not even getting close to defeating him - stupid auto-potion spell.  What strategies did you guys use to beat this part because it's hard!!

don't remember the specifics. do remember my thief was using steal heart by then, i had an archer, and

Spoiler for Hiden:

i kept delita healed, so that argath continued to focus on him...

oh, yeah, - & i'd been leveling like a maniac up til then ...

weird you'd post this - i've hit a wall vs the boss at the end of chapter 3. love this game, but the road to victory for me so far has relied as much on luck & leveling as it has on being clever - iow, it's both a ball-buster & a grinder... but you already knew that ...

[Kemper Boyd]

I'm starting to realy like this game but the Job system kind of baffles me. I don't really get just when to switch my guys or if it is even smart to do so early on. Right now I have about 4 level 4-5 Knights, 2 level 3-4 Squires and 2 level 4 Chemists and I continue to get my ass handed to me by the Black Mages in the 3rd town. I did some leveling when they wiped me out the first time, but they still took me down very fast.

Any clues/tips to help out in the early game? Fighting random battles in only two different levels is really growing old....

[semiconscious]

I'm starting to realy like this game but the Job system kind of baffles me. I don't really get just when to switch my guys or if it is even smart to do so early on. Right now I have about 4 level 4-5 Knights, 2 level 3-4 Squires and 2 level 4 Chemists and I continue to get my ass handed to me by the Black Mages in the 3rd town. I did some leveling when they wiped me out the first time, but they still took me down very fast.

Any clues/tips to help out in the early game? Fighting random battles in only two different levels is really growing old....

i'd suggest changing your chemists to white & black mages (fight fire w/ fire). that battle caught me off-guard, too - i hadn't really noticed i could've changed jobs & been leveling in them already...

my over-all approach:

as i did the first time i played this, i'm only going with 4 characters (other than ramza). unless you're really into some massive grinding (& you don't sound like you are), i can't see developing more characters than this, especially considering the bonus characters you'll be picking up as the story develops...

for me, the job system is all about settling on some primary/secondary classes, & then cherry-picking other class skills along the way. there are certain skills (like the squire's jp boost & the chemist's auto-potion) that you pretty much want everyone to have. otherwise, 2 of my characters have moved mostly through the fighter classes (both now ninjas, w/ monk secondary for one & thief the other) & the other 2 the magic classes (one white/summoner, the other black/time). the downside to this is you end up with somewhat limited options, but the thing is, even if you've maxed out a dream squad of 10-12 characters, you can still only field 4 of them at a time, so i think it's best to settle on an over-all approach to battle, & build a team that can work within those limited options, retain some flexibility, & still manage to kick some ass...

the biggest problem with fft's job system is the amazing variety of possibilities it offers - it's pretty intimidating . choose an approach, go with a group you're comfortable with, cherry-pick along the way, & (aside from a few very nasty encounters / boss battles), all should be well...

[Kemper Boyd]

Thanks for the help. I started over and focused on only 4 extra characters - much better. I equipped 4 guys with spells for this level and managed to wipe them out. Spells seem to be a bit overpowered right now, especially since I can equip them to a Knight or Squire and not have to be too squishy.

[semiconscious]

Thanks for the help. I started over and focused on only 4 extra characters - much better. I equipped 4 guys with spells for this level and managed to wipe them out. Spells seem to be a bit overpowered right now, especially since I can equip them to a Knight or Squire and not have to be too squishy.

yeah, i was kinda hoping you'd start over (tho i didn't wanna say it for fear of discouraging you). enjoy the spell power (while you can )...

after over a dozen attempts, spanning most of a week, have finally made it past the chapter 3 boss (i can't believe i had no memory of that battle from my first play-through - major ball-buster!) to chapter 4. got luso (from ffta2) prior to the battle:

Spoiler for Hiden:

head to zeklaus desert once you've completed orbonne monastery

now it's time to track down balthier (&, of course, that spiky-haired character)...
 

[biggercup]

I am busy playing with Nintendo DS... I don't even know where I put my PSP.

This game could be the game that rescue my PSP from under the bed/couch 

[Kemper Boyd]

So I started over yet again and this time I feel a LOT better about my party. I am getting near the end of chapter 1 and almost all of my non-guest characters have "JP Boost", "Move +1", "Counter-tackle" and "Auto-potion" - the last one actually supercedes the counter but a free heal when hit is just plain sweet. By doing this in a logical manner, I didn't even have to grind very much to reach these skills.

Anyone who loved Jeanne D'Arc and dismisses this game is making a grave mistake because Jeanne really is a pretty looking FFT-lite. I'm glad I pushed through some of the pain of actually having to learn a game and finding something very nice inside. Great stuff.

[TheMissingLink]

Yeah, I'm taking my sweet, sweet time but my party is pretty powerful now, nearing the end of chapter 2.  The storytelling has been excellent, and the dialog is top-notch. 

[semiconscious]

converted my ninja/thief to a dancer/ninja - always had fond memories of the dancer job: adds just the right amount of chaos/fun to the proceedings, &, with a bit of luck, she can be a pretty decisive factor in nastier battles...

I'm glad I pushed through some of the pain of actually having to learn a game and finding something very nice inside. Great stuff.

fft's aged incredibly well - hard to believe it's 10 years old. easily the equal to any srpg since (tho, even as far in as i am, i'm still of the opinion that ffta's the more over-all enjoyable of the 2)...

jobs i've unlocked so far (some requirements have been tweaked a little from the original):

Spoiler for Hiden:

onion knight: squire 6, chemist 6

monk: knight 3
thief: archer 3
geomancer: monk 4
dragoon: thief 4
samurai: knight 4, monk 5, dragoon 2
ninja: archer 4, thief 5, geomancer 2
dancer: geomancer 5, dragoon 5

mystic: white mage 3
time mage: black mage 3
orator: mystic 3
summoner: time mage 3