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Author Topic: Final Fantasy 12 demo impressions  (Read 3080 times)
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farley2k
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« on: November 17, 2005, 03:20:09 AM »

So what did others who got this think?  

I played the two parts and I have to say - what freaking crap!!!  It was beautiful but the combat was so generic I was nodding off.  Maybe it was because I didn't have instructions but I couldn't seem to queue instructions,  so I didn't really feel in control.

I don't care for this type of active combat, quite often it feels like I don't even need to be there.  How can it be fun to just watch the computer AI kill monsters?

The arrows which point out who you were attacking....well they were cute at first but then I realized they didn't mean anything.  It was just fluff.


I am just very dissappointed.
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 03:55:19 AM »

I haven't played it, but every time I read an article saying that 'Square is trying to make FFXII similar to an off-line MMORPG', I cringe.  If I want to play an MMORPG (which I never do), I'll sign up for a freaking MMORPG.  Beleive it or not, game developers, there are some of us out there that detest that style of game!  I play FF for the characters, the story, the graphics...all the things we've come to expect from the FF titles.  I have serious concerns about FFXII.
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 03:55:21 AM »

I'm extremely disappointed as well.  I don't get what they're trying to accomplish with this new combat system, I guess they really liked the system in FFXI and wanted to have something similar looking?  

Maybe I just need time to get used to it, but it just felt like I was playing a clumsy MMORPG.

At least the cutscenes were great, this demo made me more excited for Advent Children than for FFXII.

edit: just saw your post Gratch, I hadn't read any of the press on the game and I instantly felt the MMORPG vibe.  Terrible idea.  And I'm one of the few people who liked FFXI!
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 05:15:27 AM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
I play FF for the characters, the story, the graphics...all the things we've come to expect from the FF titles.  I have serious concerns about FFXII.


To be fair, the new combat system probably won't effect the story, characters, or graphics so all of those classic elements should still be there.

Haven't tried the demo yet (can't tear myself away from DQ8) but the general consensus seems pretty positive on other forums I've visiited.  I'll try and put in some time with the demo tomorrow.
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 07:02:40 AM »

Another disappointed fan here. I basically felt that I was fighting  the controls the entire time. I think it would have been a lot better if the game would auto-pause and bring up the battle  menu each time a character's action gague fills up. I hated having to shuffle through menus each time I wanted to do something simple.

There may be more to the battle system than in the few minutes I played with it, but frankly everything about the combat system was so off-putting that I wasn't interested in trying to figure it out.
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2005, 08:33:35 AM »

I haven't played the demo yet, but I've never understood the comparison to MMOs.  From what I've read, the battle system is very similar to that of KoTOR, and that didn't seem anything like the few MMORPGs I've played.  There are elements of FF12 that appear in MMOs, but nothing that hasn't also appeared in single-player RPGs, such as fighting enemies on the same screen (no separate battle area), visible equipment changes, etc.
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2005, 12:22:19 PM »

So, being that I know very little about the FF series... Is FFX considered the last really good one?
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2005, 12:41:31 PM »

Quote
To be fair, the new combat system probably won't effect the story, characters, or graphics so all of those classic elements should still be there.

Isn't 95% of FF the combat though?  If its not fun, that makes the rest tough to get through.
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2005, 01:41:59 PM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
I haven't played the demo yet, but I've never understood the comparison to MMOs.  From what I've read, the battle system is very similar to that of KoTOR, and that didn't seem anything like the few MMORPGs I've played.  There are elements of FF12 that appear in MMOs, but nothing that hasn't also appeared in single-player RPGs, such as fighting enemies on the same screen (no separate battle area), visible equipment changes, etc.


Play the demo and see what you think.  

I have only played one MMO - Camelot, but somehow it felt more like that than it did like KoToR.  

Maybe that was just becuase I couldn't pick weapons, armor, etc. so it didn't feel like my choices.
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2005, 06:02:48 PM »

Quote from: "wonderpug"
edit: just saw your post Gratch, I hadn't read any of the press on the game and I instantly felt the MMORPG vibe.  Terrible idea.  And I'm one of the few people who liked FFXI!


I loved FFXI ... awesome game, I loved how it forced people to either
A) know your role

or

B) Suck ass and whine.

biggrin

As to playing an offline FFXI game, that does NOT appeal to me.
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2005, 06:06:38 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Gratch"
I play FF for the characters, the story, the graphics...all the things we've come to expect from the FF titles.  I have serious concerns about FFXII.

To be fair, the new combat system probably won't effect the story, characters, or graphics so all of those classic elements should still be there.

And honestly, I haven't been impressed by the story or characters in any of the 'next gen' Final Fantasy titles (short of 9 and possibly 7), so hearing that the combat sucks isn't a good thing.

I'll find some time sometime soon to make my own impressions later. Having too much fun with the game I paid for. biggrin

Quote from: "Lockdown"
So, being that I know very little about the FF series... Is FFX considered the last really good one?

That depends on entirely who you ask. Those who loved the SNES games (like me) say that FFIX was the last good one. Others say FFX or FFVII depending on their tastes.
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2005, 07:07:13 PM »

Since VII, i havent liked a FF game.  I played 10 for a bit, and realized it looked pretty.  I rented X-2, and realized it was dress up.

Changing the very good combat system FF had been using seems like a poor idea to me.  Havent the fans proven that what we/they want is to take ourselves back to the days of VII and at the very least IX.

Good story.  Good system.  

Stop with the eye candy for 13-14 year old boys.
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Lee
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2005, 07:14:58 PM »

Looking at the FFXII demo manual, it mentions being able to play in old turn based mode, no?
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2005, 07:36:54 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"
Looking at the FFXII demo manual, it mentions being able to play in old turn based mode, no?


No, not as far as I can tell. You can pause it when you you bring up a menu, but the game won't pause automatically at the start of someone's turn.
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2005, 08:00:17 PM »

"Good story. Good system.

Stop with the eye candy for 13-14 year old boys."
The Final Fantasy games have always had top-of-the-line graphics, 6 and 7-9 included.  FFX is no more or less about eye candy than the others were.  All 3 games feature amazing (for the time) graphics, solid battle systems, and extensive noninteractive segments.  Other than the lack of a world map, why is FFX singled out as being different from the rest?

Back to FF12, I'm excited about the changes.  Square hasn't made a less-than-great main series FF game yet, and I doubt they're going to start now.  Tradition is fine (DQ8 proves that), but change can be good, too.  Honestly, I'm a lot more excited about FF12 than I would have been if I knew it was playing it safe.
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2005, 09:31:48 PM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
Back to FF12, I'm excited about the changes.  Square hasn't made a less-than-great main series FF game yet, and I doubt they're going to start now.  Tradition is fine (DQ8 proves that), but change can be good, too.  Honestly, I'm a lot more excited about FF12 than I would have been if I knew it was playing it safe.

You still haven't played the demo! :)  Even if I did want FFXII to be an offline MMO, there's still just something that doesn't feel right in the demo.  Besides not being fun, it just seems...awkward.  Again, hopefully it's just something you need time to get used to.  Too bad they didn't include an intro/tutorial style level with the demo, maybe that's all it needs.
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2005, 09:46:34 PM »

Quote
it just seems...awkward


This is exactly right. Beyond the fact that it's just different from what we're used to, the controls just suck. For example, let's say I want to give commands to all three party members. I have two different ways of doing it:

The first way I hit up on the d-pad and the game pauses and the leader is highlighted. I switch to the appropriate character and set that person as leader. I unpause the game and then bring up the action menu, which pauses the game again so I can select the attack I want. I then have to repeat this for the other two members in my party.

The second way is to bring up the action menu and select the action for the first character. Then I unpause the game so the command takes effect. Then I pause again, use the right or left d-pad buttons to select the next character and enter the appropriate command. Then for the third character, I bring up the action menu again, but it defaults back to the first character I entered my action for. So, then I have to scroll to the appropriate character again and enter his action.

KOTOR made it much simpler. Action menus stayed on the screen unobtrusively. One button to switch characters and then up to two button presses at most to queue actions for that character. You could even set the game to pause automatically when switching characters. I really hope they refine the controls before releasing the game.
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2005, 11:07:31 PM »

How are FFX and FFX-2 not about just girls in clothes for boys to play with?

While FFX, MAY NOT, have been all about that.  The ability to change your professions based upon the clothes your girls were wearing, REALLY, in my opinion seems about playing dress up.
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« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2005, 12:52:55 AM »

Quote from: "GGMark"
The ability to change your professions based upon the clothes your girls were wearing, REALLY, in my opinion seems about playing dress up.




ps: got the demo (from a friend) - impressions later...
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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2005, 02:22:33 AM »

"The ability to change your professions based upon the clothes your girls were wearing, REALLY, in my opinion seems about playing dress up."
The ability to change clothes was a great take on the job system from FF5/Tactics wrapped up in a silly package.  The ability to change jobs while in battle is great fun, and makes the battles much more intersting than in most RPGs.  I can understand people getting put off my the tone of the game, but underneath the silliness is a very solid battle system.

I'm looking forward to playing the FF12 demo, but I'm saving it for after a very long day of work on Saturday.  Plus, DQ8, Magna Carta, and Wild ARMs are keeping me too busy to play much else.  I'm not complaining, though slywink
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2005, 03:22:31 AM »

later...

yikes! - it's star ocean 3 on steroids!!!

reading previous posts on this thread, the phrase 'jump the shark' popped into my head, &, now that i've played the demo, it hasn't gone away...

initially, the idea of handing xii over to the folks involved in ff tactics sounded like a great idea, & i imagine at least the story & presentation will justify the decision. ivalice is a great gameworld setting with lots of possibilities, & the demo, by being so battle-centric & devoid of context, almost works against getting a true feeling of things to come...

that said, the combat, as it is here, almost borders on ludicrous. simply put, you've basically just got too many damn options (even with a smoothed out control scheme). i loved star ocean & radiata stories, but on the level of a semi-brainless romp. yeah, there were minor elements of strategy involved, but choices were limited, which felt appropriate due to the realtime nature of things. the ffxii demo is something else entirely - all the magic options of the previous games, in realtime, with individual charge bars running simultaneously (makes magna carta's 'party' charge bar - along with the shoulder buttons to switch characters - look like a stroke of genius) just seems nuts...

one of the pleasures of the ff games has always been the strategy involved in the combat. semi-brainless romps can be fun, but i've always looked for & gotten something deeper from ff. i'm still looking forward to the game, & am sure i'll enjoy it (as i did ffx-2), but, as is, it doesn't look to be quite the rich, rewarding experience of previous incarnations...
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« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2005, 09:13:18 PM »

Ok. I had a very important question about this. I played the demo last  night, and while I tentatively enjoyed it (and am not ready to post my impressions yet-one more playthrough first), I need to ask a question that really could make or break the game for me.

Is the choice between "Active" and "Wait" mode purely voluntary and up to the player?. Please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me "yes".
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2005, 02:43:21 AM »

I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine any reason it wouldn't be.  FFX-2 allowed you to choose if you wanted combat to pause while the menu is displayed or not, so I'd assume the demo is just set up with both to allow you to try them out.
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2005, 04:13:46 AM »

I guess to me, there is a slight difference in dressing up barbies, and dressing up GI Joe dolls.

My opinion of X, and X-2, were blah.  I thought X was ok, and I really liked the system that allowed you to move around the wheel to sort of take different professions.  Maybe it was just me, but finding different outfits for my girls to wear so they could do different jobs was not fun.  Nor did it bring anything to the game for me.

FF games have always been near top of the line in graphics.  Thats one thing.  Throwing all sorts of girls at you, wearing sort of skimpy outfits, does not a game make.

Its nice to have eye candy in a game, dont get me wrong.  Having a whole party of that 'eye candy' to control, and listen to them giggle.  Not my idea of fun.  Maybe I am just old now, and dont like things like I used to.  BUt still, i cant remember ever liking things like that.
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2005, 05:06:01 AM »

Quote from: "GGMark"
Its nice to have eye candy in a game, dont get me wrong.  Having a whole party of that 'eye candy' to control, and listen to them giggle.  Not my idea of fun.  Maybe I am just old now, and dont like things like I used to.  BUt still, i cant remember ever liking things like that.


You seem to keep lumping in X with X-2 and yet almost all of your complaints are X-2 specific (playing dress up, party entirely comprised of girls).
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2005, 07:19:14 AM »

I finally played the demo, and to my surprise, it does feel somewhat like an MMORPG, but not in a bad way.  I think the main reason for the MMO feel, and the main difference from most console RPGs is that you fight on the same screen as you walk around on.  The battle system still feels a lot like the standard Final Fantasy ATB system, only adapted to be played without a separate battle arena.  I thought the control system worked well.  I shut off all the gambits, and at the beginning of a battle, I'd hit Up to switch to each party member and set their attacks, and then use left and right to issue commands during battle.  I loved the summoned esper, and both seeing the enemies fight each other, and watch the little mandragoras run in terror when the rockeater arrived were great.

I think the new battle system will take getting used to, but also seems like it will help speed up the game.  As much as I love FFX, I found myself tiring of the battles, and I'm thinking this new system will help alleviate the battle fatigue even the best RPGs sometimes suffer from.  I wish we had gotten to see some of the story elements, though.
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2005, 11:11:50 AM »

I think X and X-2 were very similar.  I found more qualities in X than I liked in X-2, but even while playing X, I felt it was really not meant for someone my age to be playing.
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2005, 02:24:19 PM »

Well, I am not alone!  The guys at Penny Arcade seem to hate the new direction as much as I do!



Quote
If I had to say, I'd put it like this:  Final Fantasy XII is an insult to a once proud franchise and to the people who have made it so.  I think that gets it across.

With the extended delays of the title, I had imagined that the rough trade they received at the hands of almost every person who saw it had sunk in and they had begun to realize the intense shame they'd bring upon themselves by continuing in this direction.  That's not what happened.  They're Final Goddamn Fantasy, they don't have to worry about larger industry trends toward approachability and away from turn or phase based combat.  They create trends, like a massive stellar body distorts local space.

This isn't just slavish devotion to tradition - the fact of the matter is that the system they had works better.  It's more explicit regarding game events, and the player has greater control.  You don't have to take my word for it - Dragon Quest VIII is awesome, and includes the same demo I played.  There are two combat modes, the "Wait" mode being slightly less bad but not what you might call "good."  Give it a whirl, the whole thing is trash.  If for some reason you do enjoy it - and I've certainly done my best here to lower expectations - then rejoice.  You must be the person they're trying to appeal to.  It'll feel good for a while, until they determine that mass market annual "footy" titles are where it's at.  Then you and I can sit together in a cafe and talk about those good times.
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2005, 07:56:05 PM »

"They're Final Goddamn Fantasy, they don't have to worry about larger industry trends toward approachability and away from turn or phase based combat."
Huh?  The last Final Fantasy previous to X that was turn-based was released in 1990.  The hallmark of the series is the ATB system, which is what they're using in FFXII.  Ironically, the article mentions DQ8, which was deliberately made simpler to improve "approachability".  FF12 is certainly different, but how is it an insult to anything?  I'm been a FF fan since the first game, and have played them all (some more than once), and I'm excited about the direction the game is taking.
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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2005, 09:58:39 PM »

I picked up DQVIII yesterday even having really disliked the demo.  So I got the chance to finally play the FFXII demo.

I really liked it!  I think I generally liked it because it did remind me somewhat of FFXI.  To me, it did play like an MMORPG.  But I like the different battle interface they have for this installment.  I liked the "wait" mode more than the "active" and it seems like the battle system will yield a bit more of a strategic element to battles than the usual JRPG battle system.

I liked the look of the game too - the characters all looked neato and interesting and all.  Though, my Mom's name is Fran . . . and when I was playing that "active" mode part of the demo it got on my nerves seeing her name on the screen.  Actually, that's kind of weird.

But anyway, good CGI cutscenes from before the title screen and after beating both demos.  I liked the music.  Battle system was fun to me.  I really enjoyed it!
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« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2005, 10:07:41 PM »

Quote from: "depward"
I picked up DQVIII yesterday even having really disliked the demo.  So I got the chance to finally play the FFXII demo.

I really liked it!  I think I generally liked it because it did remind me somewhat of FFXI.  To me, it did play like an MMORPG.  But I like the different battle interface they have for this installment.  I liked the "wait" mode more than the "active" and it seems like the battle system will yield a bit more of a strategic element to battles than the usual JRPG battle system.

I liked the look of the game too - the characters all looked neato and interesting and all.  Though, my Mom's name is Fran . . . and when I was playing that "active" mode part of the demo it got on my nerves seeing her name on the screen.  Actually, that's kind of weird.

But anyway, good CGI cutscenes from before the title screen and after beating both demos.  I liked the music.  Battle system was fun to me.  I really enjoyed it!


Wierd doesn't begin to describe it smile
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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2005, 10:32:14 PM »

I still have yet to play this demo, despite having 20+ hours logged on DQ8.

Eat that, dweebs-who-bought-DQ8-more-for-the-FFXII-demo.
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2005, 12:18:40 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I still have yet to play this demo, despite having 20+ hours logged on DQ8.

Eat that, dweebs-who-bought-DQ8-more-for-the-FFXII-demo.

And the same. Who knows if I'll ever play the demo for that matter.
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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2005, 01:43:13 AM »

Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I still have yet to play this demo, despite having 20+ hours logged on DQ8.

Eat that, dweebs-who-bought-DQ8-more-for-the-FFXII-demo.

And the same. Who knows if I'll ever play the demo for that matter.


I bought Tobal #1 years ago for the FFVII demo.  I was young and foolish then.  Back then FFVII was simply unlike anything out there.  Tobal #1...I'm still not sure about that one.  I liked everything I read about the sequel, which unfortunately never came to the US.

I bought Zone of the Enders for the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo.  Of course the MGS2 demo was amazing but I actually got a lot out of ZOE.  I can't believe how smooth that game played.  I fondly remember the graphics being spectacular.

I don't care about the FFXII demo.  I'm sure it looks stunning but I've not enjoyed the recent FF titles.  I prefer the GBA ports.
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