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Author Topic: Far Cry Wii OUCH  (Read 1837 times)
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Bullwinkle
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« on: December 15, 2006, 01:16:52 AM »

According to IGN, you're better off with Red Steel than Far Cry. 4.0

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Here's the question: can you look past Far Cry Vengeance's many technical inadequacies and focus on the shooter's fun Wii control scheme and fairly straightforward gunfight-filled action? This game may be the ultimate proving ground for Nintendo's philosophy: gameplay fist and graphics second. Someone reading this right now might be ready to overlook anything for a new Wii FPS, but not me. The presentation – everything from the dozens of graphics shortcomings to the sometimes broken AI logic – is just too sloppy and too rushed in this quick-and-dirty Wii incarnation of the classic franchise. A fundamentally solid shooter is hiding somewhere underneath, but good luck finding it between the blurry textures and the sluggish framerate. (And as an aside, don't trust the pictures on the back of the Far Cry Vengeance box -- the game looks nothing like them.)

Ubisoft is a very talented development studio – one of the best in the world. Far Cry Vengeance does not represent even half of the company's potential. I can only imagine that the franchise's originator, Crytek Studios, is looking at this port and laughing… or maybe crying.

If you want an action-filled FPS, get Call of Duty 3. And if you just want something pretty to look at, you're better off with Red Steel.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/751/751136p2.html
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2006, 01:19:04 AM »

Geez if IGN slammed it, I'm afraid what Gamespot will do
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2006, 01:35:46 AM »

Yeah, I heard the graphics are horrid on it. The control isn't all that bad though. Too bad.

I really think they need to not make FPS's on the Wii. It just isn't powerful enough to handle a more realistic FPS, especially when the 360 and PS3 just keep looking better and better as time goes on. They need to find a little nitch like the Wii Sports stuff and stick to it.
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2006, 01:38:03 AM »

What the hell happened to Ubisoft, seriously. For all of Ubisoft's trumpeting of the Wii, they've clearly done more harm to both the system's reputation and their own than any other publisher who has yet published a game on the system. You know you're doing something very, very wrong when EA's yearly ports to a system are widely praised and yours are shit all over on a constant basis.

Ubisoft, stop making crap please. Thanks.
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2006, 01:38:15 AM »

I think they can make a good FPS for the system, they just need to not rush titles out the door. Farcry smacks of not enough development time. COD 3 would've gotten better reviews if it had online multiplayer, and it's a decent title. Red Steel would've been a better game if they talked to the Farcry development team.

I truly think that the software on the Wii will be like the DS, Nintendo holding it up for the first 8 months or so with 3rd party slowly getting it. Also, who said FPS games needed to be realistic to be good?

On the graphics front, it bothers me that Nintendo didn't upgrade the GPU just a little more. Theoretically the system is more powerful than the first Xbox, but not many of the games have shown this.
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2006, 01:39:12 AM »

Well, the good news is that Rainbow Six Vegas was a good game...too bad it isn't on the Wii (More than likely due to the HW requirements).
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2006, 01:53:50 AM »

I watched a video of someone playing Farcry a while back.  Yes the graphics were hideous but I thought the controls looked pretty good.  I didn't think IGN gave out 4s.
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 04:10:27 AM »

Does it have internet multi-play?
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2006, 04:18:06 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on December 15, 2006, 01:35:46 AM

Yeah, I heard the graphics are horrid on it. The control isn't all that bad though. Too bad.

I really think they need to not make FPS's on the Wii. It just isn't powerful enough to handle a more realistic FPS, especially when the 360 and PS3 just keep looking better and better as time goes on. They need to find a little nitch like the Wii Sports stuff and stick to it.

Wii is going to bomb big if they try anything other than cute mario games, Zelda stuff,  and fun little controller gimick games.  There just isn't nearly enough graphical horsepower to do anything else with that box imo.  It'll just end up looking like shiat.
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2006, 04:23:23 AM »

Nah, I doubt that.  The Wii is the only console I would even think about playing an FPS on.
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2006, 05:05:51 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 16, 2006, 04:23:23 AM

Nah, I doubt that.  The Wii is the only console I would even think about playing an FPS on.

Agreed. Even the mediocre Red Steel shows that the FPS genre is a perfect fit for the system. Just gotta give the developers some time.
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2006, 05:07:00 AM »

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Wii is going to bomb big if they try anything other than cute mario games, Zelda stuff,  and fun little controller gimick games.  There just isn't nearly enough graphical horsepower to do anything else with that box imo.  It'll just end up looking like shiat.

They say the system is more powerful than the Xbox, I don't understand why we aren't seeing that yet.
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 05:57:56 AM »

Quote from: Ridah on December 16, 2006, 05:07:00 AM

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Wii is going to bomb big if they try anything other than cute mario games, Zelda stuff,  and fun little controller gimick games.  There just isn't nearly enough graphical horsepower to do anything else with that box imo.  It'll just end up looking like shiat.

They say the system is more powerful than the Xbox, I don't understand why we aren't seeing that yet.

Rushed development to meet the launch window. It happens with every system. We know for a fact the Wii is more powerful than the Gamecube and nothing so far comes close to how good Resident Evil 4 looks graphically.
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2006, 06:04:35 AM »

Quote from: siege on December 16, 2006, 05:05:51 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 16, 2006, 04:23:23 AM

Nah, I doubt that.  The Wii is the only console I would even think about playing an FPS on.

Agreed. Even the mediocre Red Steel shows that the FPS genre is a perfect fit for the system. Just gotta give the developers some time.

as in you think Red Steel specifically has controls that are 100% perfect?  I beg to differ my friend...mouse+KB still owns it by a large margin, and I really didn't think it was that much of an improvement over the standard dual analog method on xbox and PS.  it was just weird

I sure hope Metroid Prime 3's controls aren't exactly like Red Steel, that would be a huge disappointment to me as that's the only nintendo franchise I like these days
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 06:50:51 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on December 16, 2006, 04:18:06 AM

Quote from: Hetz on December 15, 2006, 01:35:46 AM

Yeah, I heard the graphics are horrid on it. The control isn't all that bad though. Too bad.

I really think they need to not make FPS's on the Wii. It just isn't powerful enough to handle a more realistic FPS, especially when the 360 and PS3 just keep looking better and better as time goes on. They need to find a little nitch like the Wii Sports stuff and stick to it.

Wii is going to bomb big if they try anything other than cute mario games, Zelda stuff,  and fun little controller gimick games.  There just isn't nearly enough graphical horsepower to do anything else with that box imo.  It'll just end up looking like shiat.


I disagree. Considering all the raving that went on about how great many of the shooters were on the X-Box and Cube, and considering the Wii is a bit more than halfway from that to the 360/PS3, there's no reason why they can't look just fine on the Wii. Sure, they won't be ungodly awesome like Gears of War, for instance, but it doesn't have to be that super-awesome to be a blast to play.

As we've already seen, Call of Duty 3 comes fairly close to the 360/PS3 versions (primarily slightly reduced texture resolutions are the main holdback). Given that, I get the impression that either Far Cry got a shoddy-ass port, or the game really is that much more demanding of the 360/PS3 than what either Call of Duty game so far has been. *shrugs*

But don't let me hold you guys back from your holy crusade of the graphics grail.
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 07:03:31 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:50:51 AM

I disagree. Considering all the raving that went on about how great many of the shooters were on the X-Box and Cube, and considering the Wii is a bit more than halfway from that to the 360/PS3, there's no reason why they can't look just fine on the Wii.

Who says the Wii is half way to a PS3/360?  I find that highly unlikely.  From everything I have seen, the Wii is pretty much identical to the Gamecube. I am sure there is something in it to make it a bit more powerful, but saying it is half way there seems to be a stretch.  Stuff I have seen ont he PS2 seems to destroy the Wii, so I would think the Wii is probably more comparable to a PS2 than anywhere close to a PS3.

I really think Nintendo just wanted to release a new controller scheme version of a slightly upgraded Gamecube as a prelude to a future generation machine.  Sort of a street-test of the technology without much investment into true next generation console and the associated costs with it.  So what they came up with was Gamecube 1.5 w/new controller.

I think it is a bit of false hope thinking some magnificent mind blowing FPS will magically appear on the Wii. I just don't see it happening.
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 07:15:30 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on December 16, 2006, 07:03:31 AM

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:50:51 AM

I disagree. Considering all the raving that went on about how great many of the shooters were on the X-Box and Cube, and considering the Wii is a bit more than halfway from that to the 360/PS3, there's no reason why they can't look just fine on the Wii.

Who says the Wii is half way to a PS3/360?  I find that highly unlikely.  From everything I have seen, the Wii is pretty much identical to the Gamecube. I am sure there is something in it to make it a bit more powerful, but saying it is half way there seems to be a stretch.  Stuff I have seen ont he PS2 seems to destroy the Wii, so I would think the Wii is probably more comparable to a PS2 than anywhere close to a PS3.

I really think Nintendo just wanted to release a new controller scheme version of a slightly upgraded Gamecube as a prelude to a future generation machine.  Sort of a street-test of the technology without much investment into true next generation console and the associated costs with it.  So what they came up with was Gamecube 1.5 w/new controller.

I think it is a bit of false hope thinking some magnificent mind blowing FPS will magically appear on the Wii. I just don't see it happening.

I don't think it's that powerful even after finally playing one at my nephews house more like gamecube 1.3.
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 07:52:00 AM »

Quote from: Kobra
Who says the Wii is half way to a PS3/360?  I find that highly unlikely.  From everything I have seen, the Wii is pretty much identical to the Gamecube. I am sure there is something in it to make it a bit more powerful, but saying it is half way there seems to be a stretch.

Apparently you haven't bothered to look up any hardware specs, as the writeups I've read indicate that the Wii is roughly 2 to 2.5 times more capable on a technical/architectural level than the Cube was.

The main CPU's raw clock speed is a roughly 50% gain over the Cube's (485mhz Cube, 729mhz Wii), and if you know anything about CPU's, you know that architecture makes a significant difference as well. I'd venture to say it's safe to assume the main CPU is thus roughly twice as capable as the Cube's. The GPU on the Wii is also 50% faster than on the Cube (185mhz Cube, 243mhz Wii), and with the same caveats on architecture, we can estimate a roughly 100% gain over performance on the Cube's GPU.

Total system RAM (between the system and graphics memory) on the Cube was 40MB, on the Wii it's 88MB: that's more than double. 16MB of the Cube's RAM was 81mhz DRAM, whereas all of the memory on the Wii is 1T-SRAM. In addition, the dedicated texture memory on the GPU went from 1MB on the Cube to 3MB on the Wii - memory located directly on the GPU has a significant effect on performance.

Additionally, the GPU on the Cube had a significant advantage over that of the PS2 and X-Box in that many of the high-level graphics processes were hardcoded directly into the architecture, which allowed developers to make better use of the system's "limited" power. This is why most ports (where the developers took time to try to optimize games for each system) generally looked best on the Cube and X-Box; the PS2's limitations were harder to work around (though certainly possible as we saw many times) while the X-Box's brute force (that's not a knock against it; that's just the path MS took to get more performance) and the Cube's efficient architecture generally saw similar results. Where the Cube's limitations came in are the same place that the Wii's are: higher resolutions. When rendering at 480i/p, the Cube and X-Box were pretty dead even. However, the higher power of the X-Box allowed for many games to run at 720p, whereas while the Cube might have been able to pull that off, it would've been at a significant cost to performance.

We're seeing the same thing this generation: at the 480i/p resolutions, the Wii will be able to compete reasonably presentation-wise against the 360 and PS3. Just like with pc's, when graphics cards go past a certain limit, performance gains become marginal on lower resolutions of the screen and textures. While yes, the 360 and PS3 could completely blow away the Wii's capabilities with how much they could process if games were programmed for 480i/p only, that's not the case. The higher power of those systems is being utilized for running games at 720p and up. The games are coded for that, and as a result, that gives the Wii the advantage of coding for 480i/p instead, and thus on SDTV's and EDTV's, the Wii will be able to accomplish nearly what the 360 and PS3 can on the same televisions. It's on HDTV's where the 360 and PS3 will pull significantly away from the Wii's graphical capabilities. The higher resolution textures of games like Call of Duty 3 on the 360/PS3 over that of the Wii are much less apparent on an SDTV or EDTV precisely because unless you stick those textures highly zoomed in, the finer details are lost.

When I say that the Wii will be able to accomplish nearly what the 360 and PS3 will be able to, the obvious caveat is that I'm speaking to the same display resolutions.

I'm sure I'll regret bothering to lay all the facts out for you, or Hetz, or anyone else out there who's all too happy to just say the Wii is a "Gamecube with a remote" and that everything looks like ass on it compared to the 360/PS3, since facts just get in the way of the ignorant ranting. But there's the facts. If your concerned about games running in full high-def on an HDTV then yeah, the Wii is going to look significantly outclassed. Otherwise, no, the systems are much closer on the SDTV/EDTV playing field than so many people are making them out to be. And yes, the Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the Cube (or, if you want me to be more precise, it's roughly twice as capable as the Cube).

*Disclaimer: I own a 360, I fucking love the system, I don't own a Wii yet but will be purchasing one in the spring, and I have no interest in the PS3 unless it gains enough exclusive titles to justify the cost for me. I also own a PS2, X-Box, Gamecube, DS, Dreamcast, SNES, NES, and owned a PS1 until I bought the PS2 and didn't need the PS1 anymore (because Sony completely kicked ass and put complete PS1 backwards-compatibility with enhancements on the PS2), and I keep my PC relatively upgraded because I love games. Period. You can call me a Nintendo fanboy until you're blue in the face, but you'd be wrong; I could care less what system a game is on if the game is awesome.

I'm also able to see the merits and drawbacks of various systems; it's why I think the 360 is one of the best all-around consoles ever - MS hammered the ball out of the park on this one. The PS3 is a powerful piece of machinery, but a full technical and architectural review shows that between it and the 360, there is no clear winner. Depending on what the developer needs the machine to do and how they code the game to do it, both systems have significant strengths over one another (the short of it is that the 360's gpu has a huge advantage over the PS3's due to the difference between DirectX 9 capabilities and those of DirectX 10, while the PS3's Cell processor provides unique and promising capabilities beyond standard multi-core systems like the 360). I think the Wii will be a blast, and for games that are multiplatform, if the Wii controls significantly enhance the gaming experience, I'll take the hit on lower-resolution graphics for the gameplay over the higher-resolution display of the 360 or PS3.
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2006, 12:43:35 PM »

All the specs in the world mean nothing when I see all the games for the Wii look no better than Gamecube games. Heck even Zelda looks the same on the Gamecube as it does on the Wii.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like the Wii. It has some fun games....but the graphics are really poor and they are just going to look worse as time goes on and the 360/PS3 come out with more and more incredible looking games. It's not just the fact that the games are all in SD and not HD....they have MUCH lower texture resolution as well, which makes games like Madden/CoD 3 look much worse than their 360 or PS3 counterparts.
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2006, 02:15:00 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on December 16, 2006, 12:43:35 PM

All the specs in the world mean nothing when I see all the games for the Wii look no better than Gamecube games. Heck even Zelda looks the same on the Gamecube as it does on the Wii.

That's because the games were co-developed at the same time and Nintendo themselves said that there was no difference between the games short of the world being flipped and (MAYBE - I'm not sure) widescreen support.
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2006, 02:59:10 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:50:51 AM

As we've already seen, Call of Duty 3 comes fairly close to the 360/PS3 versions (primarily slightly reduced texture resolutions are the main holdback)

wtf??  that's just wrong dude

unless we have a completely different definition of 'close', OR...given what you implied in your lengthy reply to kobra, you're talking about the 360/PS3 versions only on a SDTV.  and if it's the latter, well I really don't give a rat's ass about SDTVs.  seriously, why would someone who owns a HDTV care about what 360/PS3 games look like on SDTVs?  I honestly don't mean any offense, but that's just a stupid comparison (if that's what you meant)
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 03:51:43 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 16, 2006, 02:59:10 PM

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:50:51 AM

As we've already seen, Call of Duty 3 comes fairly close to the 360/PS3 versions (primarily slightly reduced texture resolutions are the main holdback)

wtf??  that's just wrong dude

unless we have a completely different definition of 'close', OR...given what you implied in your lengthy reply to kobra, you're talking about the 360/PS3 versions only on a SDTV.  and if it's the latter, well I really don't give a rat's ass about SDTVs.  seriously, why would someone who owns a HDTV care about what 360/PS3 games look like on SDTVs?  I honestly don't mean any offense, but that's just a stupid comparison (if that's what you meant)

Yeah, he doesn't mean any offense, but you're an idiot!

But it is true, Wii COD is not close to the other versions.
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2006, 03:53:42 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on December 16, 2006, 12:43:35 PM

All the specs in the world mean nothing when I see all the games for the Wii look no better than Gamecube games. Heck even Zelda looks the same on the Gamecube as it does on the Wii.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like the Wii. It has some fun games....but the graphics are really poor and they are just going to look worse as time goes on and the 360/PS3 come out with more and more incredible looking games. It's not just the fact that the games are all in SD and not HD....they have MUCH lower texture resolution as well, which makes games like Madden/CoD 3 look much worse than their 360 or PS3 counterparts.

I have to agree with you on this one when I played the wii at my nephews granted only wii sports and rayman the graphics imo looked no better than gamcubes.
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2006, 05:47:45 PM »

Personally, I'm trying to muster up some semblance of enthusiasm for buying a slightly upgraded Gamecube with a gimmicky remote. I'll give it a minimum 6-8 months before I even consider purchasing it. I always get a chuckle when Nintendo fans lord gameplay over graphics. It's almost like they keep apologizing for the system's shortcomings. You can have all the gameplay you want up on that high-horse, I'll take gameplay AND graphics.
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2006, 05:53:18 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on December 16, 2006, 12:43:35 PM


Now, don't get me wrong, I like the Wii. It has some fun games....but the graphics are really poor and they are just going to look worse as time goes on and the 360/PS3 come out with more and more incredible looking games.

I agree that the PS3 and 360 grpahics will improve over time, but I think you are wrong in assuming the WIi graphics will stay static.  Wii games will improve over time as well in the graphics department.  Of course they will never catch up to the 360 and PS3, but I think that the gap between WIi and PS3/360 that exists will stay consistent over time.
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2006, 06:04:23 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 16, 2006, 02:59:10 PM

unless we have a completely different definition of 'close', OR...given what you implied in your lengthy reply to kobra, you're talking about the 360/PS3 versions only on a SDTV.  and if it's the latter, well I really don't give a rat's ass about SDTVs.  seriously, why would someone who owns a HDTV care about what 360/PS3 games look like on SDTVs?  I honestly don't mean any offense, but that's just a stupid comparison (if that's what you meant)

I'm pretty close to done with this thread; I've said most of what I need to say, but I wanted to respond to your post in particular.

First, no, I didn't take offense. icon_smile You make the point I was making, I just apparently didn't quite make the point right.

The Wii will remain very competitive in graphics on SDTV's and EDTV's (most early-gen HDTV's were actually EDTV's, which only display up to 480p in widescreen). This also happens to be the kind of television sets that the majority of people in the three markets (Japan, NA, and Europe) own. For people who don't have an HDTV and have no intent to upgrade in the near future, they couldn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the 360/PS3 when you get them going on HD resolutions. icon_wink

So yes, for gamers who stay at the top of the tech curve and don't want to look back, the Wii will not be able to compete directly with the 360/PS3 for display quality.

For gamers who don't really care in most cases (me and others), yes, I can easily tell the difference between COD3 at 720p and COD3 at 480p (you could even have the same texture resolution and the difference in display resolution would make it look like the textures were less detailed). But, if the gameplay for the Wii version is more fun than that in the higher-res version, I'll play it on the Wii instead. If not, I'll play it on the 360 for the better graphics.

And for people without HDTV's, who don't plan on getting one, the cross-system ports won't look significantly different.

So no, it's not a stupid comparison for the majority of the population of the three main video-game markets. For the high-end markets, it's not the right comparison, since the HDTV resolutions offer significant benefits over S/EDTV resolutions.

As for the launch titles, I'm not surprised to see that most of them aren't a significant upgrade. Zelda, in particular, I feel was a bit of a snowjob: the Wii version is identical to the Cube version, even though if they'd abandoned the Cube version they could've significantly upgraded the title on the Wii. Nintendo rarely pushes their systems to the limit. Most of the games they did on the Cube versus the N64 mainly benefitted from the move to full 480p resolution from the old 320x240 resolution that games in the 32-bit generation typically used, along with the new hardcoded graphical tricks on the GPU. We'll see better stuff over time (and no, I'm not implying that it's going to top the graphics on the 360/PS3).
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2006, 06:20:20 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:04:23 PM

The Wii will remain very competitive in graphics on SDTV's and EDTV's (most early-gen HDTV's were actually EDTV's, which only display up to 480p in widescreen). This also happens to be the kind of television sets that the majority of people in the three markets (Japan, NA, and Europe) own. For people who don't have an HDTV and have no intent to upgrade in the near future, they couldn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the 360/PS3 when you get them going on HD resolutions. icon_wink

oh yeah, that's certainly true, I can agree with that.  it's just that at first, in your original post, it sounded like you were saying CoD3 Wii looks very close to CoD3 360/PS3 even on nice HDTVs.  that's why I was like, wtf?!   icon_wink
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Farscry
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2006, 10:37:54 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on December 16, 2006, 06:20:20 PM

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 06:04:23 PM

The Wii will remain very competitive in graphics on SDTV's and EDTV's (most early-gen HDTV's were actually EDTV's, which only display up to 480p in widescreen). This also happens to be the kind of television sets that the majority of people in the three markets (Japan, NA, and Europe) own. For people who don't have an HDTV and have no intent to upgrade in the near future, they couldn't give a rat's ass about the quality of the 360/PS3 when you get them going on HD resolutions. icon_wink

oh yeah, that's certainly true, I can agree with that.  it's just that at first, in your original post, it sounded like you were saying CoD3 Wii looks very close to CoD3 360/PS3 even on nice HDTVs.  that's why I was like, wtf?!   icon_wink

Oh, man, definitely not. icon_biggrin I love what Nintendo's doing, I'm excited about the Wii, but no way am I going to make a crazy claim that the Wii's 480p graphics can be as detailed as the 360/PS3 on full HD resolution. Only if they're all running at 480p are they comparable.
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2006, 10:59:43 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 10:37:54 PM

Only if they're all running at 480p are they comparable.

Still not even close from what I have seen so far.
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Farscry
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2006, 11:03:35 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on December 16, 2006, 10:59:43 PM

Quote from: Farscry on December 16, 2006, 10:37:54 PM

Only if they're all running at 480p are they comparable.

Still not even close from what I have seen so far.

Different strokes for different folks then. *shrugs* COD3 at 480p on the 360 and the Wii are, by most accounts (and the screens I've seen) pretty comparable. There aren't many other multiplatform titles yet that serve as a suitable comparison.
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