http://gamingtrend.com
September 02, 2014, 04:44:52 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Far Cry 2 DRM  (Read 4965 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« on: October 15, 2008, 04:05:17 PM »

From Blues News:

Quote
Some DRM points that will hopefully answer some of your questions and will clarify some misunderstandings about our DRM and SecuROM:

- You have 5 activations on 3 separate PCs.

- Uninstalling the game “refunds” an activation. This process is called “revoke”, so as long as you complete proper uninstall you will be able to install the game an unlimited number of times on 3 systems.

- You can upgrade your computer as many time as you want (using our revoke system)

- Ubisoft is committed to the support of our games, and additional activations can be provided.

- Ubisoft is committed to the long term support of our games: you’ll always be able to play Far Cry 2.

so, if you're dead set against DRM buy it for a console.  me, I really don't care and will be buying the PC version.  I doubt I'll still be playing it 4-5 years down the road when I'm on my 4th PC since it's release.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Huw the Poo
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3162


Please feed dog


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 04:54:17 PM »

See, that one seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Unless I'm mistaken, all it really does is prevent you from installing on more than three different PCs, which seems fair - and provided they stick to their promises.
Logged

Resident anti-Steam troll
Steam profile
Greg Wak
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 697


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 04:57:57 PM »

DRM has never bothered me although I know some people have a DRM boycot. I however am a one game at a time guy and have decided to play Fallout 3 first.
Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 05:15:03 PM »

Yay, another game I don't have to buy anymore. Fuck off Ubisoft with this DRM bullshit (yes, I intended to grab this for the PC for better controls).

EDIT: I hope Ubi enjoys a rash of negative reviews on Amazon like Spore got. When will the PC industry stop treating us like fucking pirates?!?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 05:20:45 PM by Destructor » Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
IceBear
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 210


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 05:35:17 PM »

Isn't this going to be released on Steam as well?  They won't need this DRM on Steam (which doesn't mean they wouldn't still use it) so if you still want to buy it you could go that route.
Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 05:50:30 PM »

Quote from: IceBear on October 15, 2008, 05:35:17 PM

Isn't this going to be released on Steam as well?  They won't need this DRM on Steam (which doesn't mean they wouldn't still use it) so if you still want to buy it you could go that route.

There was a game recently released (the expansion for StalkerCrysis) that while was on Steam, still had the activation DRM installed. So that won't always stop it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 07:24:35 PM by Destructor » Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Huw the Poo
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3162


Please feed dog


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 06:24:38 PM »

Quote from: IceBear on October 15, 2008, 05:35:17 PM

Isn't this going to be released on Steam as well?  They won't need this DRM on Steam (which doesn't mean they wouldn't still use it) so if you still want to buy it you could go that route.

Some of us refuse to use Steam though. biggrin

Destructor, I was absolutely with you regarding Spore, but if - and yes, it's a big if - everything in the OP is true, surely it's not that bad?  How does it do anything other than prevent you from installing one copy of the game on more than three PCs at the same time?
Logged

Resident anti-Steam troll
Steam profile
TiLT
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 6464


Preaching to the choir


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2008, 07:19:32 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 15, 2008, 06:24:38 PM

Destructor, I was absolutely with you regarding Spore, but if - and yes, it's a big if - everything in the OP is true, surely it's not that bad?  How does it do anything other than prevent you from installing one copy of the game on more than three PCs at the same time?

As long as you uninstall properly. What if your HD fails (which isn't all that unusual)? That's one lost installation right there. What if you get a BSOD while you play the game, corrupting the game directory? That's another lost install.

You could call this grasping at straws, but that would be better applied to the concept of DRM in the first place. There's no room for DRM among modern consumers. Companies like Stardock have proven that as long as you treat your customers with respect and don't just initially assume they're pirates, you'll sell more copies of your games. DRM is just there so that a corporate executive can point to a piece of paper and say "We're losing money to piracy? Well, at least I *tried* to prevent that." even if the DRM is completely ineffective (as it usually is). It's nothing but a part of the paper trail to let them cover their asses. They know it doesn't work. Why should we consumers suffer the consequences of that?
Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2008, 07:26:31 PM »

I just can't understand why publishers won't go the old-fashioned method. Just use a bloody CD-check. Yes, it WILL be defeated the same day it comes out, but the same thing happens with SecuROM.

I can easily live with CD-checks. This bullcrap I won't.
Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Giles Habibula
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 423



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2008, 09:09:13 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 15, 2008, 07:26:31 PM

I just can't understand why publishers won't go the old-fashioned method. Just use a bloody CD-check. Yes, it WILL be defeated the same day it comes out, but the same thing happens with SecuROM.

I can easily live with CD-checks. This bullcrap I won't.
Likewise. I quit supporting the "phone home" model a couple of years ago. That includes Steam.
[Heston]Damn them all to hell!!![/Heston]
Yeah, I've missed out on a lot of great games because of it, but hey, I'm still alive, and I still have a lot of my cash that may have otherwise gone to coasters.
 I prefer the cash.
I was hoping Ubi would just keep doing their usual disk check, but I can see now that this [activation] is the way of the future.
A future I want no part of.

I own 4 online-activated games already. That's already too much of my money invested in something I have no control over the legal installation of.
I refuse to trust a bunch of $50 games to a bunch of various servers from a bunch of different companies that may or may not be there when I'm finally ready to play them.
PC gaming already has enough hoops to jump through. No more.

Best of luck to the rest of you who've eagerly embraced this scheme.
You're blythely gambling with real money.
Maybe not a lot of money...for now....But when ALL games go to this model...well, have fun guys.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 09:20:32 PM by Giles Habibula » Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2008, 09:22:31 PM »

To quote a random poster from elsewhere:

Quote
I don't think I should need to ask permission to use something I bought and paid for.

Just imagine if that bullcrap passed onto things you do in real life.

Bethesda - PLEASE don't do this with Fallout 3.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 09:27:49 PM by Destructor » Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 03:44:27 AM »

and Far Cry 2 is already being pirated....

at least the 360 version is.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 07:57:40 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 17, 2008, 03:44:27 AM

and Far Cry 2 is already being pirated....

at least the 360 version is.

I see the copy protection did wonders protecting the game there.  Roll Eyes Tongue
Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Suitably Ironic Moniker
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1163


WAKKA-WAKKA-WAKKA!!!


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 09:45:20 PM »

Unreasonable DRM aside, I will buy this on opening day. It looks great.
Logged

Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it - Mark Twain

3ds friend code: 0001-3352-7186
Punisher
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1730



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2008, 03:40:34 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 17, 2008, 07:57:40 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 17, 2008, 03:44:27 AM

and Far Cry 2 is already being pirated....

at least the 360 version is.

I see the copy protection did wonders protecting the game there.  Roll Eyes Tongue

So if piracy is killing PC gaming, I guess consoles will be next. Soon we'll all have to go back outside and play....
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2008, 03:42:26 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on October 18, 2008, 03:40:34 AM

Quote from: Destructor on October 17, 2008, 07:57:40 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 17, 2008, 03:44:27 AM

and Far Cry 2 is already being pirated....

at least the 360 version is.

I see the copy protection did wonders protecting the game there.  Roll Eyes Tongue

So if piracy is killing PC gaming, I guess consoles will be next. Soon we'll all have to go back outside and play....

shut yo mouth foo'!
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
da Toad
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 37


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2008, 05:50:31 AM »

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards Roll Eyes

Back in the good ol' days we could at least count on the media to stand up against wacky key-fobs or crazy Russian device drivers. Funny how the tune changes when SONY is the bad guy. Guess I can't blame 'em too much. Those big press parties sure sound fun...
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2008, 06:02:37 AM »

Quote from: da Toad on October 18, 2008, 05:50:31 AM

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards Roll Eyes

meh, the only time I upgrade my video card anymore is when I buy a whole new PC, so that doesn't bother me at all  icon_twisted
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2008, 06:56:08 AM »

Quote from: da Toad on October 18, 2008, 05:50:31 AM

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards Roll Eyes

Are you sure that just changing a video card is enough to initiate a new activation?  It seems like with most other activation schemes you have to change multiple pieces of hardware before it perceives it as a new or different computer. 
Logged
TiLT
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 6464


Preaching to the choir


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2008, 09:41:39 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 18, 2008, 06:56:08 AM

Quote from: da Toad on October 18, 2008, 05:50:31 AM

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards Roll Eyes

Are you sure that just changing a video card is enough to initiate a new activation?  It seems like with most other activation schemes you have to change multiple pieces of hardware before it perceives it as a new or different computer. 

It depends on the type of hardware. I believe a video card counts as a major change. I've also had my hardware configuration change upon rebooting my computer, for no apparent reason.
Logged
Giles Habibula
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 423



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2008, 02:37:25 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 18, 2008, 06:56:08 AM

Quote from: da Toad on October 18, 2008, 05:50:31 AM

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards Roll Eyes

Are you sure that just changing a video card is enough to initiate a new activation?  It seems like with most other activation schemes you have to change multiple pieces of hardware before it perceives it as a new or different computer. 
To me, the point is that the DRM people need to be much more clear about what constitutes a change.
Also, all the different DRM companies need to get together and form a standard regarding this.

And even if they did those things, IMAGINE THIS:
You've got dozens of games on your PC, each one with phone-home DRM on it (that day is coming). 12 games use DRM type A, 8 games use DRM type B, 10 games use DRM type C, and 4 games use DRM type D. This is assuming there will only be 4 types of DRM in the future.
Now you've got all those games, the installs of which has spread over multiple upgrades of your computers. You now need to keep track of which game has which DRM, and which hardware configuration it was installed with.

See, all you people tolerant of DRM have been tolerant precisely because THUS FAR, we haven't had all that many different DRM schemes to deal with. I can understand you guys who say you're happy with Steam. I still say Steam is evil, but I could agree that having all DRM tied up with a single DRM company is better than having 4 different DRM companies to keep track of, and hope they stay solvent far into the future.

On the other hand, if all DRM is tied to one single company, like Steam, if something ever happens to Steam, you're screwed.
Ah, but surely that would never happen. If Steam ever folds, doubtless another company will step in and take over.
Maybe so. Maybe.
And surely, some intrepid programmer will step in and make a totally legal patch to get rid of it.
Logged
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2008, 02:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Giles Habibula on October 18, 2008, 02:37:25 PM

You've got dozens of games on your PC, each one with phone-home DRM on it (that day is coming). 12 games use DRM type A, 8 games use DRM type B, 10 games use DRM type C, and 4 games use DRM type D. This is assuming there will only be 4 types of DRM in the future.
Now you've got all those games, the installs of which has spread over multiple upgrades of your computers. You now need to keep track of which game has which DRM, and which hardware configuration it was installed with.

Why would I need to keep track of all that?  I install and play the games like normal. If it detects that the activations run out then it will let me know and at that stage I would either call customer service or hunt down a crack.  But at no point do I need to keep some form of mental or written inventory of what game uses what DRM. 
Logged
KePoW
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1877


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2008, 06:56:28 PM »

Quote from: Giles Habibula on October 18, 2008, 02:37:25 PM

To me, the point is that the DRM people need to be much more clear about what constitutes a change.
Also, all the different DRM companies need to get together and form a standard regarding this.

And even if they did those things, IMAGINE THIS:
You've got dozens of games on your PC, each one with phone-home DRM on it (that day is coming). 12 games use DRM type A, 8 games use DRM type B, 10 games use DRM type C, and 4 games use DRM type D. This is assuming there will only be 4 types of DRM in the future.
Now you've got all those games, the installs of which has spread over multiple upgrades of your computers. You now need to keep track of which game has which DRM, and which hardware configuration it was installed with.

See, all you people tolerant of DRM have been tolerant precisely because THUS FAR, we haven't had all that many different DRM schemes to deal with. I can understand you guys who say you're happy with Steam. I still say Steam is evil, but I could agree that having all DRM tied up with a single DRM company is better than having 4 different DRM companies to keep track of, and hope they stay solvent far into the future.

On the other hand, if all DRM is tied to one single company, like Steam, if something ever happens to Steam, you're screwed.
Ah, but surely that would never happen. If Steam ever folds, doubtless another company will step in and take over.
Maybe so. Maybe.
And surely, some intrepid programmer will step in and make a totally legal patch to get rid of it.

Man, that's ludicrous and a whole bunch of "ifs" there.

You're obviously a type of person who is super anal and analytical, so I'm not going to refute the technical points of your argument.  All it comes down to me is that I enjoy playing cool new games when they come out, so I don't give one shit about the DRM.  I buy the game, play it and move on.  Why the hell would I give a crap about a few years down the line, I personally don't replay old games like that.

I don't care about the principle of the matter, I just want to play great and well-done games.  If it has DRM, that's fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the experience at the time the game comes out.  I'm not going to be changing my hardware configuration 3 times in a span of a month, or even a year.
Logged
Mithridates
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 631


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2008, 07:05:56 PM »

Quote from: KePoW on October 18, 2008, 06:56:28 PM

Quote from: Giles Habibula on October 18, 2008, 02:37:25 PM

To me, the point is that the DRM people need to be much more clear about what constitutes a change.
Also, all the different DRM companies need to get together and form a standard regarding this.

And even if they did those things, IMAGINE THIS:
You've got dozens of games on your PC, each one with phone-home DRM on it (that day is coming). 12 games use DRM type A, 8 games use DRM type B, 10 games use DRM type C, and 4 games use DRM type D. This is assuming there will only be 4 types of DRM in the future.
Now you've got all those games, the installs of which has spread over multiple upgrades of your computers. You now need to keep track of which game has which DRM, and which hardware configuration it was installed with.

See, all you people tolerant of DRM have been tolerant precisely because THUS FAR, we haven't had all that many different DRM schemes to deal with. I can understand you guys who say you're happy with Steam. I still say Steam is evil, but I could agree that having all DRM tied up with a single DRM company is better than having 4 different DRM companies to keep track of, and hope they stay solvent far into the future.

On the other hand, if all DRM is tied to one single company, like Steam, if something ever happens to Steam, you're screwed.
Ah, but surely that would never happen. If Steam ever folds, doubtless another company will step in and take over.
Maybe so. Maybe.
And surely, some intrepid programmer will step in and make a totally legal patch to get rid of it.

Man, that's ludicrous and a whole bunch of "ifs" there.

You're obviously a type of person who is super anal and analytical, so I'm not going to refute the technical points of your argument.  All it comes down to me is that I enjoy playing cool new games when they come out, so I don't give one shit about the DRM.  I buy the game, play it and move on.  Why the hell would I give a crap about a few years down the line, I personally don't replay old games like that.

I don't care about the principle of the matter, I just want to play great and well-done games.  If it has DRM, that's fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the experience at the time the game comes out.  I'm not going to be changing my hardware configuration 3 times in a span of a month, or even a year.

Amen.  I can't beleive people are freaking out over this.
Logged
Huw the Poo
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3162


Please feed dog


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2008, 09:39:07 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 18, 2008, 07:05:56 PM

Amen.  I can't beleive people are freaking out over this.

Really?  It's quite simple.  It's because some of us do like to replay games years later.  And we don't like people taking a giant shit on our rights.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 09:41:41 PM by Huw the Poo » Logged

Resident anti-Steam troll
Steam profile
Mithridates
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 631


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2008, 12:30:32 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 18, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

Quote from: Mithridates on October 18, 2008, 07:05:56 PM

Amen.  I can't beleive people are freaking out over this.

Really?  It's quite simple.  It's because some of us do like to replay games years later.  And we don't like people taking a giant shit on our rights.

Holy hell.  Can you be more dramatic?  Your "rights"?  This is amazing, the imagined persecution you guys have worked up over this DRM stuff. 
Logged
Giles Habibula
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 423



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2008, 01:39:30 AM »

Tough crowd in here. smile
Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2008, 03:44:44 AM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 18, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

Quote from: Mithridates on October 18, 2008, 07:05:56 PM

Amen.  I can't beleive people are freaking out over this.
Really?  It's quite simple.  It's because some of us do like to replay games years later.  And we don't like people taking a giant shit on our rights.
Holy hell.  Can you be more dramatic?  Your "rights"?  This is amazing, the imagined persecution you guys have worked up over this DRM stuff. 

I look at it this way. I fired up Daggerfall on my laptop today. Yes, the old-school DOS based game that was released on 8/96 (I love DOSBox). If it was DRMed with what is out there today (server based activation, limited installs, etc etc), it wouldn't install and would have to be pirated to play.

That is my point. Some of us do like to install and fire up old games for some crazy reason. I own it, and damn it I want to be able to play it when I want to. Period.
Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2008, 04:44:03 AM »

Maybe they'll remove the check after a certain period of time like they did with Bioshock.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Punisher
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1730



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2008, 04:44:44 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 19, 2008, 03:44:44 AM

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 18, 2008, 09:39:07 PM

Quote from: Mithridates on October 18, 2008, 07:05:56 PM

Amen.  I can't beleive people are freaking out over this.
Really?  It's quite simple.  It's because some of us do like to replay games years later.  And we don't like people taking a giant shit on our rights.
Holy hell.  Can you be more dramatic?  Your "rights"?  This is amazing, the imagined persecution you guys have worked up over this DRM stuff. 

I look at it this way. I fired up Daggerfall on my laptop today. Yes, the old-school DOS based game that was released on 8/96 (I love DOSBox). If it was DRMed with what is out there today (server based activation, limited installs, etc etc), it wouldn't install and would have to be pirated to play.

That is my point. Some of us do like to install and fire up old games for some crazy reason. I own it, and damn it I want to be able to play it when I want to. Period.

I too replay older games after a while. Sometimes it's just to see what kind of performance I get on my new hardware. A game like Crysis or Far Cry 1/2 has loads of eye candy, that some people may not be able to appreciate with the equipment they currently have.

I'm in the camp of any copy protection annoys me. I play multiple games at a time (not simultaneously, but flip through several of them) I hate looking for discs. Also, even keycodes get annoying when I have to re-install months laters. I can usually find the discs and not the manual/box.

I WOULD feel different, if I truly thought that it was protecting the companies software, but lets be real. At least 95% of all software is cracked within the first week of release. Some of it is cracked before it is even publicly released to begin with. There isn't any copy protection that stops or even slows down the pirates. Yes copy protection can help against "casual" copying, but I would argue that, that accounts for a miniscule amount of actual people. For the most part, anyone into casual copying would very easily find the cracks for protected software.

Can anyone honestly say that they fully believe that copy protection has any real value?
Logged
Giles Habibula
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 423



View Profile
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2008, 05:26:03 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 19, 2008, 04:44:03 AM

Maybe they'll remove the check after a certain period of time like they did with Bioshock.
They've removed activation limits, not the activation.
Personally, install limits don't bother me as much as the activation. I do own Bioshock, and I love the game, but I'll probably never install it more than a few times in my life. But the second time might be in 5 years, and the third may be long after that.
Yes, I do hold out a little faith that they'll patch out the activation later. I just don't like it hanging over my head.
One game to worry about? Fine. I can live with that. But all future games?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 05:33:08 AM by Giles Habibula » Logged
Huw the Poo
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3162


Please feed dog


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2008, 08:42:17 AM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

Holy hell.  Can you be more dramatic?  Your "rights"?  This is amazing, the imagined persecution you guys have worked up over this DRM stuff. 

Yes, that's right.  My rights.  I bought the game, it's mine, and I want to be able to play it whenever I like.  Whether that's tomorrow or three years from now is none of anybody else's business.  When the publisher removes that choice they're infringing on my rights.

You seem astonished that I'm annoyed by this, but I am equally astonished that you don't seem to care.
Logged

Resident anti-Steam troll
Steam profile
TiLT
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 6464


Preaching to the choir


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2008, 08:55:39 AM »

What it boils down to is this: Some people have real, actual problems getting DRM games to run, either now or in the future. And for what? DRM has no observable effect against piracy (and arguably even encourages it). What's the point in trying to defend DRM when there are only negatives and no positives, even if the negatives don't directly affect you?
Logged
Mithridates
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 631


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2008, 12:50:19 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 19, 2008, 08:42:17 AM

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

Holy hell.  Can you be more dramatic?  Your "rights"?  This is amazing, the imagined persecution you guys have worked up over this DRM stuff. 

Yes, that's right.  My rights.  I bought the game, it's mine, and I want to be able to play it whenever I like.  Whether that's tomorrow or three years from now is none of anybody else's business.  When the publisher removes that choice they're infringing on my rights.

You seem astonished that I'm annoyed by this, but I am equally astonished that you don't seem to care.

Why would I care?  I don't buy games to play them 5 or 10 years from now.  I buy them to play now.  And maybe in a year or 2 when I get nostalgic.  It is perfectly acceptable to me that the game might not function 5 years from now.  If it doesn't work, I'll move on and I'll live.

And as for your rights, that's silly.  You already have limited rights- you can't copy the CD and give it to your friends, you can't use "cheats" for online play, etc.  Using DRM is another part of your limited rights. Just because you buy something doesn't mean its going to work forever.
Logged
Mithridates
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 631


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2008, 12:52:37 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 19, 2008, 08:55:39 AM

What it boils down to is this: Some people have real, actual problems getting DRM games to run, either now or in the future. And for what? DRM has no observable effect against piracy (and arguably even encourages it). What's the point in trying to defend DRM when there are only negatives and no positives, even if the negatives don't directly affect you?

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.
Logged
Huw the Poo
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3162


Please feed dog


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2008, 01:13:28 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:50:19 PM

Why would I care?  I don't buy games to play them 5 or 10 years from now.

But I do.  Don't you see?  Or to put it another way, what if you did want to play games that are a few years old and can't because of DRM?  Wouldn't you be pissed off then?

I resent your description of my rights outrage as silly.  I don't expect the right to copy games for friends and I don't expect the right to play subscription-based games for free, because I'm not a software pirate.  What I do expect is to be able to play a game that I paid for any time I like.  If you think that's an unreasonable right, well....let's just say I disagree vehemently.  I don't have to put up with that with DVDs, books, CDs, etc.  So why should I put up with it for games?

As for your comments about getting someone with industry experience to say that DRM is useless - why, exactly?  Pick any game you like, as new as you like, and see if it can be illegally downloaded and played regardless with DRM - often, as has been said, before the game is even released to the public.  Surely that alone is proof that DRM is useless?
Logged

Resident anti-Steam troll
Steam profile
TiLT
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 6464


Preaching to the choir


View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2008, 01:13:51 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:52:37 PM

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.

Thank you for calling my opinion "crap". That sure sets the proper tone for the discussion.

The game industry doesn't share its numbers with the public, with the exception of vastly exaggerated numbers with no basis in reality (like: "Piracy costs us *insert imaginary number here* Dollars every year!!!"). From what certain software developers who don't deal with games have told me however, it seems that DRM has no effect on piracy unless the DRM manages to make piracy impossible. Unless the game industry starts using dongles for their games, that's just not going to happen. (I'm speaking only of the PC industry here, of course. Consoles like the PS3 already use hardware verification, which renders piracy close enough to impossible that nobody bothers with it)

There's also the simple fact that pirated games are usually available on the Internet before their retail release, which shows pretty clearly how effective DRM is at stopping piracy. Anyone can download a torrent these days, and there are even simpler ways of getting these releases for those who have some technical savvy.

Let's turn the whole thing on its head: Since game developers and publishers should theoretically be more willing to talk about the success of DRM schemes, let's see you dig up some hard facts. Unless someone can prove that piracy is stopped by today's DRM schemes, my opinion is set in stone.
Logged
Punisher
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1730



View Profile
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2008, 02:26:37 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 19, 2008, 08:55:39 AM

What it boils down to is this: Some people have real, actual problems getting DRM games to run, either now or in the future. And for what? DRM has no observable effect against piracy (and arguably even encourages it). What's the point in trying to defend DRM when there are only negatives and no positives, even if the negatives don't directly affect you?

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.

This is easy, just go look at any number or warez sites and see how quickly the copy protection is defeated. Sometimes on day 1 or before. It usually doesn't even slow down the pirates. The companies put in protection to keep people from pirating their games, but the pirates crack them right away anyhow. In general, the people looking to pirate software already know where to get it. It may have been different in the past, where you had to be "in the know" in some cases to get to pirated sites. Now they are all over.
Software with phyiscal dongles has been cracked
Software with online activation has been cracked
console and hand held games have been cracked

That is why DRM is useless. It's purpose is to prevent piracy and it doesn't. The days of the casual copier are over. There are probably VERY few of those people left.

If someone developed a new fire extinguisher, but it couldn't actually extinguish fires, I would call that useless too...
Logged
Destructor
Special Project Group
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15920


▲▲▼▼◄►◄►B A Start


View Profile WWW
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2008, 02:31:54 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:52:37 PM

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.

I give you these two links (one old, the other not so old).

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/858/858653p1.html:
Quote
Following this approach, Wardell cites Sins of a Solar Empire's success. The game has received great critical praise, in addition to having sold nearly 200,000 copies in its first month (May 2008); an amazing feat for a comparatively small budgeted title. Wardell cites the lack of copy protection on Sins of a Solar Empire as one of the myth busters to piracy killing PC gaming.

Wow. 200k copies on what's practically an indie game with absolutely ZERO copy protection.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=994
In short, a very long interview with Stardock about their Gamer Bill of Rights. A very good read (both links), IMHO.

And I love this quote:
Quote
The people who are going to buy stuff are going to buy it, and the people who are never gonna buy it, well, who cares about them? They're not a lost sale.

THAT is the overall issue. The people who pirate have no intention on buying the game anyway. No protection will stop them (as it gets cracked Day 1 or earlier), so why even try?
Logged

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Giles Habibula
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 423



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2008, 03:35:02 PM »

Quote from: Mithridates on October 19, 2008, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 19, 2008, 08:55:39 AM

What it boils down to is this: Some people have real, actual problems getting DRM games to run, either now or in the future. And for what? DRM has no observable effect against piracy (and arguably even encourages it). What's the point in trying to defend DRM when there are only negatives and no positives, even if the negatives don't directly affect you?

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.
That's right. They are only concerned with their pocketbook.
And I am concerned with mine.

Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.359 seconds with 103 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.077s, 2q)