Fallout: New Vegas - Impressions and stuff

[KePoW]

no more Games for Windows Live integrations.  Instead it will use Steam.

That sucks.

No gamerscore achievements.

but you'll have Steam achievements! 

Yeah but those aren't as cool. =)

[ROTC1983]

no more Games for Windows Live integrations.  Instead it will use Steam.

That sucks.

No gamerscore achievements.

So happy the GFWL is gone...that crap sucked.  I rather deal with steamworks

[KePoW]

no more Games for Windows Live integrations.  Instead it will use Steam.

That sucks.

No gamerscore achievements.

So happy the GFWL is gone...that crap sucked.  I rather deal with steamworks

What sucked about it?  I never had any technical problems with it.

Or you mean you just don't like the achievements philosophy... I know some don't.

[Tscott]

Here's my report from trying to use LIVE to get the add ons for Fallout 3 on August 6th of last year, posted at another forum.  I wasted an entire afternoon trying to get everything to install.  I think where I really snapped was when, after much toil and strife, I got the message that said only "That's it!" and then got an error message that it still needed to update.

I played Fallout 3 all the way through 2 times when I first got it (plus a 3rd time just to blow up Megaton) without bothering with "Games for Windows Live". Now I see how wise I was.

Now that all the DLC are out, I thought I'd finally bite the bullet, get them and play through the game again with all the addons.

So I start up Fallout3, and click on the neglected "LIVE" option on the main menu. It drops down an ugly interface that doesn't seem to react when I click on it. (I later discover that instead of clicking on the actual GUI buttons, I should be clicking on some mysterious area just BELOW the buttons. Hmmm, you'd think someone who worked for MS WINDOWS would know how to do a GUI interface!)

Anyway, I finally get it to the point where it says I need to create a LIVE account. I do that. It takes me to XBOX.com and logs me into my new XBOX Live account. WTF? I don't even own an XBOX. I search for Fallout 3 and find the DLC in this window it brought me to- but all the DLC is for the XBOX version of the game! WTF again??

I'm stumped for a few minutes, trying to find how to get to the Windows DLC from this window they brought me to. I finally say "this is ridiculous", exit, and click on Fallout 3 (still minimized on the desktop). Which then asks me for my "Live Access Key". Oh. I was supposed to know that the window they brought me to after signing up wasn't the window I was supposed to go to. I enter my access key. Problem solved.

Or so I think. Now it needs to update. Do I want to do this? Yes. It installs and then leaves me on my desktop without warning. I restart FO3- it crashes. Try again- it crashes again. Restart the computer. FO3 now starts up. I log into LIVE and it tells me I need to update again. Didn't I just do this?

It updates and it seems to take this time. Cool. I try to start LIVE. I now need ANOTHER update. Do I want to do this? Yes! (Well, actually, I may be starting to doubt myself here.) It updates. Another restart.

I start FO3 again... I log into LIVE again... I get a message "Do I want to enable automatic updates?" Yes. "This needs to be updated. Please go to microsoft.com to install the update." WHAT THE FUCK? It just asked if it should do auto updates, and it's telling me to manually update it so it can!

I click OK. This program can't proceed without the update. It exits out. I restart it. "Do I want to enable automatic updates?" Yes. "This needs to be updated. Please go to microsoft.com to install the update." This time I click on the microsoft.com link in the window (as opposed to the OK button I went with the first time).

A file downloads. I double click to install it. It takes 25 minutes to install. The screen saver came on twice while I was waiting. The progress bar went from 0 to 100% FOUR TIMES during this process. It finally finishes. I get a message that says "That's It!"

That's It? THAT'S IT???? Someone at microsoft has a deeply fucked sense of humor and I want to strangle them now... I click on the "Finish" button right below the "That's It!" message=== ERROR! Windows must be restarted before this program can finish installing. You fuckers. That wasn't it and you knew it. I restart the computer. It installed the updates part 1 of 3, part 2 of 3, part 3 of 3.

Yay. Everything working now. That was SO worth it. I'm now ready to log on and.... buy points??? This is soooo fucked. Each DLC costs 800 points- and you can only buy points in increments of 1000s or somesuch. Lucky for me I want 5 DLCs and I know math. But what if I only wanted 3 or 4 of them? I'd be screwed paying for extra points that I wasn't going to use.

God. These GfW people are so lucky that this is Fallout 3 we're dealing with, because if it was for any lesser game I would've said "Fuck this" two hours ago and never looked back.

Makes me appreciate how good Steam is.

Anyway, everything finally finished downloading while I typed this up. Wish me luck in the new areas of the wastelands. And if you know anyone who works for GfW-Live, punch them in the face for me.

Down with GfWL.  Long live Steam!

[KePoW]

Oh haha, well I bought FO3 GotY edition from Steam... already had all the DLC and everything.

Never had any problems with the GFWL implementation in that version.  Got all my achievements and everything while I played, and was not intrusive at all.  So it was kinda like getting the best of both Steam and GFWL.

[Sarkus]

Poor Bethesda.  Damned no matter what choice they make, unless they were to choose no copy protection at all.  People bitched about GfWl.  Now people are bitching about Steam.  People would bitch about any DRM system.

Fair or not, Steam has become a broadly acceptable delivery system.  Trying to hold out against it at this point is like those people who tried to hold out against the move to CDROM from 3.5 floppy back in the day, or the people who tried to hold out against 3.5 floppy and stick with their beloved 5.25 floppy.  Or those who thought Windows was a scam and DOS 3.0 was just fine.

It's technology.  Things change.  We adapt or get left behind like those people who still think landline phones are cool.

 

[CeeKay]

pre-order specifics.  4 different choices!

[Arkon]

I will most likely end up going with the Steam version despite my dislike for the service.  Either that or Gamestop.

[Caine]

best buy it is, as i will be on the 360 for this one. 

[jersoc]

pre-order specifics.  4 different choices!

another terrible thing that the industry does.

god damnit all.

[Freezer-TPF-]

I hate the store-based multiple pre-order bonus item gimmick.  I hope all the items can actually be found in the game and that the only "bonus" is that you start out with them in your inventory or something.

HATE.

[Blackjack]

If they're in keeping with, say, MMO pre-order multi's (I know it's not an MMO, but still), everything will be useless after, say, Level 5. 

[KePoW]

Unless you're a serious OCD type gamer, it's not that big a deal.  None of those items sound that great and are not end-game items.

I mean c'mon... Stimpacks and Repair Kits?  Who cares?

[Appollo]

I am slowly working my way through the first one, have no DLC and not planning on any so after I get through with this I will be hyped for this next one providing you lot are giving it the OK.

[CeeKay]

Unless you're a serious OCD type gamer, it's not that big a deal.  None of those items sound that great and are not end-game items.

I mean c'mon... Stimpacks and Repair Kits?  Who cares?

but their SUPER stimpacks!

[Destructor]

If they're in keeping with, say, MMO pre-order multi's (I know it's not an MMO, but still), everything will be useless after, say, Level 5. 

Exactly.

And if it's anything like how Dragon Age turned out, all (most?) of the preorder bonuses will be available (on the PC only) as mods shortly thereafter launch.

[CeeKay]

gameplay! kinda looks like a Fallout 3 mod......

[Turtle]

That's because it is a fallout 3 mod. It's a professionally produced standalone expansion/mod. That doesn't mean it won't be good though.

I still think Obsidian works better when they can focus on the RPG and story, and aren't tasked with designing their own gameplay systems.

[CeeKay]

That's because it is a fallout 3 mod.

I was trying to resurrect the 'Fallout 3 looks like an Oblivion mod' joke 

[KePoW]

gameplay! kinda looks like a Fallout 3 mod......

I wish Bethesda/Obsidian would update the engine at least a little bit.  It's 2 years old now, lack of environmental shadows is really jarring.

Doesn't look like they changed anything at all though.

[Sarkus]

gameplay! kinda looks like a Fallout 3 mod......

I wish Bethesda/Obsidian would update the engine at least a little bit.  It's 2 years old now, lack of environmental shadows is really jarring.

Doesn't look like they changed anything at all though.

Supposedly they've done some very minor things, but not the kind of things you are going to notice in a 2 minute clip.  Plus, why would they bother at this point?  This engine is done after this game (and whatever DLC it also generates, if any).  The new Elder Scrolls game that will probably be announced at E3 will almost certainly involve a new game engine.

Honestly, though, I don't get what people expect.  Two years is not a huge amount of time.  And this game still has to run on the current consoles, which are the same hardware as what we had two years ago.  Some game engines have been used for a lot longer and for many more games, after all.

[Kevin Grey]

Yeah, I don't get the reaction.  When Fallout 3 came out, most seemed to think it looked really nice.  Now, only two  years later, and it looks like crap?  I just don't see it.  It may not be state of the art but things haven't advanced that far to justify the reactions. 

Journalists, in particular, are frustrating.  I think Bethesda and Obsidian were quite upfront right from the get go that it was essentially an enormous expansion pack and not to expect major changes but as soon as the footage hits, I keep seeing shocked reactions that the game looks like...Fallout 3. 

[KePoW]

Yeah, I don't get the reaction.  When Fallout 3 came out, most seemed to think it looked really nice.  Now, only two  years later, and it looks like crap?  I just don't see it.  It may not be state of the art but things haven't advanced that far to justify the reactions. 

Journalists, in particular, are frustrating.  I think Bethesda and Obsidian were quite upfront right from the get go that it was essentially an enormous expansion pack and not to expect major changes but as soon as the footage hits, I keep seeing shocked reactions that the game looks like...Fallout 3. 

For the record, I don't think it looks like crap.  I think FO3 still looks really great on my high-end PC.  It's just missing one thing, no environmental shadows whatsoever... that just happens to be a major detriment in this day and age.

When I get back home today, I'll post a screenshot from my own system to show you what I mean.

[Sarkus]

Yeah, I don't get the reaction.  When Fallout 3 came out, most seemed to think it looked really nice.  Now, only two  years later, and it looks like crap?  I just don't see it.  It may not be state of the art but things haven't advanced that far to justify the reactions. 

Journalists, in particular, are frustrating.  I think Bethesda and Obsidian were quite upfront right from the get go that it was essentially an enormous expansion pack and not to expect major changes but as soon as the footage hits, I keep seeing shocked reactions that the game looks like...Fallout 3. 

For the record, I don't think it looks like crap.  I think FO3 still looks really great on my high-end PC.  It's just missing one thing, no environmental shadows whatsoever... that just happens to be a major detriment in this day and age.

When I get back home today, I'll post a screenshot from my own system to show you what I mean.

But why is no environmental shadows a hang up?  I mean you are right, but until someone pointed it out recently I hadn't even noticed. 

[Autistic Angel]

I remember that the original Oblivion public demos prominently featured dynamic soft shadows (skip to 1:40 for the highlight), but they were later cut.  I think it was because of the extreme performance hit, but I always thought that advancements in processor speed and GPU power would make them more feasible.  Maybe in the next engine....

-Autistic Angel

[KePoW]

I remember that the original Oblivion public demos prominently featured dynamic soft shadows (skip to 1:40 for the highlight), but they were later cut.  I think it was because of the extreme performance hit, but I always thought that advancements in processor speed and GPU power would make them more feasible.  Maybe in the next engine....

Yeah back when Oblivion came out, the performance hit would definitely be too great.  But today, an upper-mid range PC can easily do it (as long as the engine is halfway decent).  Nice find on the video Autistic Angel.

Sarkus, to answer your question... no environmental shadows makes a game look *extremely* unrealistic.  I forgot to post screenshots yesterday, but I'll find some off my system for you.

[KePoW]

But why is no environmental shadows a hang up?  I mean you are right, but until someone pointed it out recently I hadn't even noticed. 

Here are some screenshots to illustrate what I mean.  The FO3 shots are all taken at basically max video settings.  The poly counts and textures are still very good, but the lack of any shadows gives the world a really 'flat' look.  No shadows from the chairs, tables, stairwells, boxes, barriers, vehicles, etc.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/900069640_Bd8Us-O.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/900069675_At3dE-O.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/900069708_8BMhf-O.jpg

Compare to some of my screenshots of Just Cause 2.  Shadows from trees, buildings, fuel depots, light poles, stairwells, etc.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/900069842_5skmm-O.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/900069768_nmu8T-O.jpg

[CeeKay]

due date: October 19th.

[CeeKay]

some more gameplay

[CeeKay]

a peek at the graphic novel included in the CE.

[Crawley]

The artwork looks good for that. But will try and hold off for the Game of the Year edition (or whatever they'll call it) so I don't buy the game twice like I did F3.

[Daehawk]

Pre ordered my CE version at Gamestop months ago. Same with Starcraft 2 , Diablo 3, and Halo:Reach

[CeeKay]

I hear hat Crawley. Still, I'll probably take the plunge anyways.

[CeeKay]

cast list from USA Today of all places.

[Knightshade Dragon]

cast list from USA Today of all places.

It's been a long morning already....I just posted it up: http://www.gamingtrend.com/PressReleases/index.php?PRID=9976

[CeeKay]

wow, for the life of me I couldn't find that one.  guess I should have checked the actual game site :brickwall:

wait, wasn't there a brickwall smiley?  ugh, going to be one of those days.

[TiLT]

Good cast. Let's hope they can actually make them sound good too. Let's face it, Bethesda's track record with voice acting isn't exactly stellar. Oblivion's big name actors sounded like they were half asleep, and the Fallout 3 actors (outside of Liam Neeson, who also sounded half asleep) were just uninspired in their performance... with just a few exceptions.

[MaxSteele]

Good cast. Let's hope they can actually make them sound good too. Let's face it, Bethesda's track record with voice acting isn't exactly stellar. Oblivion's big name actors sounded like they were half asleep, and the Fallout 3 actors (outside of Liam Neeson, who also sounded half asleep) were just uninspired in their performance... with just a few exceptions.

Remember though, Bethesda is only publishing.  It's Obsidian who developed New Vegas.

[TiLT]

Good cast. Let's hope they can actually make them sound good too. Let's face it, Bethesda's track record with voice acting isn't exactly stellar. Oblivion's big name actors sounded like they were half asleep, and the Fallout 3 actors (outside of Liam Neeson, who also sounded half asleep) were just uninspired in their performance... with just a few exceptions.

Remember though, Bethesda is only publishing.  It's Obsidian who developed New Vegas.

True, I forgot. It's still something the publisher might end up doing for the developers though, but I have no idea how it's being done here.

[CeeKay]

Good cast. Let's hope they can actually make them sound good too. Let's face it, Bethesda's track record with voice acting isn't exactly stellar. Oblivion's big name actors sounded like they were half asleep, and the Fallout 3 actors (outside of Liam Neeson, who also sounded half asleep) were just uninspired in their performance... with just a few exceptions.

Remember though, Bethesda is only publishing.  It's Obsidian who developed New Vegas.

yeah, they'll just not have time to finish the game but the voice acting will be fine