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Author Topic: FALLOUT 3  (Read 15429 times)
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« on: May 17, 2005, 06:39:51 AM »

From IGN:  



Good god, please try to investigate this.  And if it's just Morrowind with guns, kill as many of the Bethesda employees as you can before you're taken out by security.
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AgtFox
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2005, 06:42:31 AM »

I see a big red X
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2005, 06:43:53 AM »

I'm sure Ron will be investigating on Friday when he has his meeting with Bethesda...this might be another "appointment only" thing like Oblivion evidently is.
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2005, 06:44:56 AM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
I see a big red X
Lemme try to re-route it through imageshack...
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2005, 06:46:23 AM »

I saw the pic...was just a nuclear sign with Fallout 3 and two arrows pointing right.
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2005, 06:48:02 AM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
I saw the pic...was just a nuclear sign with Fallout 3 and two arrows pointing right.
Right, and the Bethesda logos in the corners.
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Raven
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2005, 06:49:56 AM »

A fallout mmorpg would be sweet.
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2005, 06:52:56 AM »

Quote from: "Raven"
A fallout mmorpg would be sweet.
Uh, no.
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2005, 07:05:37 AM »

"And if it's just Morrowind with guns, kill as many of the Bethesda employees as you can before you're taken out by security."
When they announced they had bought the rights, they also said that it would be nothing like Morrowind.
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2005, 07:21:29 AM »

Quote from: "EddieA"
"And if it's just Morrowind with guns, kill as many of the Bethesda employees as you can before you're taken out by security."
When they announced they had bought the rights, they also said that it would be nothing like Morrowind.
I trust Bethesda about as far as I can throw it.

Which isn't far at all, considering Bethesda isn't a physical entity.
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2005, 07:31:36 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Raven"
A fallout mmorpg would be sweet.
Uh, no.


Uh, yes  biggrin
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2005, 07:33:33 AM »

Quote from: "Raven"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Raven"
A fallout mmorpg would be sweet.
Uh, no.


Uh, yes  biggrin


Bethesda doesn't have those rights.  Interplay still has them.  Fallout 3 will be single player only.
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2005, 09:26:10 AM »

Quote from: "Raven"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Raven"
A fallout mmorpg would be sweet.
Uh, no.


Uh, yes  biggrin


Another vote for:  Uh, no.

LD  :wink:
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2005, 10:51:43 AM »

Sweeeett.. Better get to updating my Fallout page this week and bring it online.
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2005, 10:25:21 PM »

Quote
Good god, please try to investigate this. And if it's just Morrowind with guns,
ROCK ON!!!![/u]
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2005, 11:29:52 PM »

LE, I've already inured myself to this.

[The kid gloves come off. The rest of this post is non-PC absolute truths, as I see them.  I don't give a fuck if anyone reading this is offended]:

Fallout MMO is a contradiction is terms.  Anyone who doesn't realize this is a fucking moron.  I don't care if you like MMO's.  I don't care if you liked Fallout.  Fallout was a superlative SINGLE PLAYER GAME EXPERIENCE.  Making a level grind has nothing to do with Fallout.

Contradictory to what my fanboyishness may indicate, I like/love a lot of different types of games.  I love variety.  There are millions of Real time action games (They're called RTS', and yes, I like them at times too).  To kill an already fading genre to make a bland game in one of the most overloaded of genres is stupid. (And reduces your and my variety options in games).

X-Com Enforcer, X-com Interceptor, Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel all sold like shit.  Any niche game that tries to add "mainstream" features only loses the audience that supported the damn thing all along, and NEVER gains the big sales numbers that Guys in Suits predict.  Yet, asshats from corporate endeavors will only see, "we'll make big money if we do what everyone else does!"

Look, this bile isn't good for my health.  I can feel my blood pressure rising as I'm typing here, so I'm just going to stop.  It's just too sad that stupid people ruin things in life that should be good.  (We don't need to make a low-range sports car! (Camaro, FIrebird)  We need yet another pointless SUV, indistinguishable from the thousands already out there!)
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2005, 11:58:30 PM »

Let me expand:

ON WHY A FALLOUT MMO IS JUST STUPID
a post by Jake

What makes someone plaing a story based rpg, where the main draw is watching how your choices and actions affect the world, decide suddenly, "Hey! You know what would be fun? Making a game where thousands of fifteen years olds are, where suddenly my actions have absolutely no context because they'll disappear into the level grinding likes tears in rain!"?  

Why does a game with a TACTICAL combat system suddenly seem like a great game to play with simultaneously thousands of other people? Do you get your turn once every 15000 minutes?

These are answers I would love to hear.
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2005, 12:15:52 AM »

C'mon now, why beat around the bush?  Tell us how you really feel.  (I kid I kid! :wink:  )
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2005, 12:21:19 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
What makes someone plaing a story based rpg, where the main draw is watching how your choices and actions affect the world, decide suddenly, "Hey! You know what would be fun? Making a game where thousands of fifteen years olds are, where suddenly my actions have absolutely no context because they'll disappear into the level grinding likes tears in rain!"?


The same people who liked Everquest for the same reasons - namely, it's the SETTING they like, not the mechanics of the game.
 
Quote from: "Big Jake"

Why does a game with a TACTICAL combat system suddenly seem like a great game to play with simultaneously thousands of other people? Do you get your turn once every 15000 minutes?

These are answers I would love to hear.


Same reason as above.

Look, I love Fallout 1 & 2, but the draw of the game is not the isometric view or the turn based combat, it's the SETTING.  I'm pretty sure that Fallout Tactics and even FOPOS would have done well if they'd kept true to the feel and the SETTING of the original games.  As such, a Fallout MMORPG could be successful if done right, which is not to say I have any interest in anyone from Interplay doing it.

On a note related to this thread's original topic, the guys at NMA (No Mutants Allowed, long-running Fallout fansite) are reporting that Bethesda is not actually showing anything at E3 about Fallout 3.  Supposedly, the signage is just to remind event goers that they now have the license and are working on the game.
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« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2005, 12:21:39 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
These are answers I would love to hear.


Fallout just happens to be a setting a standard single RPG was set in for 2 games. Any game genre could have any setting. Whether its good or not depends on execution. There are many many people who feel rpg = something based on D&D or LOTR and games like Fallout and Knights of the Old Republic are pandering to 15 years old and are pooping on their beloved genre.
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2005, 02:51:43 AM »

I will try to phrase my response in a way that does not give you a heart attack  biggrin

I understand how the mechanics of Fallout were just as important, to many gamers, as the storyline itself. The ability to finish the game using different talent and skill mixes was revolutionary, and one of the reasons Fallout 1 and 2 are considered classics.

But the people who developed those two titles are now scattered to the four winds, and none of them, to my knowledge, will be working on Fallout 3.

I simply don't think the magic of Fallout can be re created, with a completely new mix of developers, after so much time has passed. I base part of this on the failure of Arcanum, to be a "victorian style" Fallout, and that title even had many of the original devs working on it.

A great game requires talent, timing, luck, and everyone working at their creative and technical peak. It's a magical moment that rarely last long. Look at Ion Storm. Look at Duke Nukem. Look at the EQ sequels. Look at Arcanum. Sometimes a company can keep the magic rolling, like Blizzard or Id, in spite of all their changes, but that's extremely rare, and those companies always have the luxury of lengthy development schedules, to make up for turnovers.

So I don't really expect much from Fallout 3. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, one it's been squeezed out. Times change, taste change, and computer technology changes. I'm not going to get caught up in some nostalgia kick, because I know everything, including computer games, has it's time, and times change. Since I don't think the magic of Fallout can be recreated (since some of that is simply wishing for the good old days), then I'm perfectly happy seeing a Fallout mmorpg.

Plus, the cold hard truth is that Fallout was never that popular. They got plenty of awards, and hardcore rpg fans loved them, but they were not break away hits.

What Fallout is, mostly, is a brand name, and since industry trends are moving towards console first person or online rpgs, it might be too big a risk to develop an old school 3d perspective rpg. Especially one that never sold big numbers in the first place.

A Fallout mmorpg would still contain the story, the style, the humor, and possible instanced based single player missions, that would still allow players to solo, from time to time, plus open up the franchise to new fans.
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2005, 03:38:45 AM »

I am guessing that the basic direction they are going to go with this game is going to piss off pretty much every Fallout fan in existence. I also think they are more than capable of making a super RPG, even if it does not look or feel like the Fallout of old (shitty, blurry 2d isometric graphics and all that). The bottom line is that with Morrowind and the expansions Bethesda has shown us they know how to make one hell of an RPG (and Oblivion looks that much better). I think I can give them the benefit of the doubt to make an interesting and fun game with Fallout.

Plus, one of the guys running things is one of my best friends, so yeah, he gets the benefit of the doubt  :wink:
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2005, 04:27:28 AM »

oNE: IT's my birthday today. Ive been drinking since 4.  (note the times of my posts).  I was at my 'ornery' phase before.  Now i'm at toasted phase.  It took me about five mintues to type these last three lines.

2) If any of you are in CHicago: good god, try the restaurant Vie in Western Springs.  Better yet, Im actually a very jovial guy in person, give me a call or email, and I will make a reservation and meet you there.  THis is one of the best meals I've ever had inmy life (Ive eaten at SPiaggia, etc - but I haven't gotten into Avec, Everest, Trotters (which I hear is overrated), etc).  I love to eat, and I love to try new places.

3) Fo:T did have the same setting as FO.  ANd it sucked and did poorly, proving my point.

4) Re:ROb's point about people thinking RPG has to equal D& d or such: these poeple are idiots.  We can safely disregard them.  biggrin

5) Raven responded to my idiot post with class and sound reasoning: he's a bigger man than I am.  I hate him for it.  Tongue  Really, though, just because the team';s disbanded doesn't mean i have to give carte blanch to kathode's company to be idiots.  IF they so choose, they can make a turn based Fallout 3.  There's no law saying they can't.  In choosing not to, they're being jerks - or more to the point, there ignoring my previous point - all these hybrids sold like crap.  It' wont do them a bit of good to try to alter the game.  And PS -I ve always said brand names won't sell: notice my points about X-com Enforcer & interceptor.  Branding may work for Coca-cola, it wont work in the games industry.  (Taking notes yet Kathode?!?!?!?!)

6) For Rage; those shitty blurry 2d sprites still had more personality than pre-fan patch Morrowind.  ANd that's a FACT.  Maybe the team kathode works with realize how empty Morrowind seemed to most RPG players.  And maybe they don''t. Oblivion will let us know if they figured it out or not.

&) FInal point - I didn't take my bday off. I took the day after off. WOohoo! !
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2005, 05:33:02 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
oNE: IT's my birthday today. Ive been drinking since 4.  (note the times of my posts).  I was at my 'ornery' phase before.  Now i'm at toasted phase.  It took me about five mintues to type these last three lines.

2) If any of you are in CHicago: good god, try the restaurant Vie in Western Springs.  Better yet, Im actually a very jovial guy in person, give me a call or email, and I will make a reservation and meet you there.  THis is one of the best meals I've ever had inmy life (Ive eaten at SPiaggia, etc - but I haven't gotten into Avec, Everest, Trotters (which I hear is overrated), etc).  I love to eat, and I love to try new places.

3) Fo:T did have the same setting as FO.  ANd it sucked and did poorly, proving my point.

4) Re:ROb's point about people thinking RPG has to equal D& d or such: these poeple are idiots.  We can safely disregard them.  biggrin

5) Raven responded to my idiot post with class and sound reasoning: he's a bigger man than I am.  I hate him for it.  Tongue  Really, though, just because the team';s disbanded doesn't mean i have to give carte blanch to kathode's company to be idiots.  IF they so choose, they can make a turn based Fallout 3.  There's no law saying they can't.  In choosing not to, they're being jerks - or more to the point, there ignoring my previous point - all these hybrids sold like crap.  It' wont do them a bit of good to try to alter the game.  And PS -I ve always said brand names won't sell: notice my points about X-com Enforcer & interceptor.  Branding may work for Coca-cola, it wont work in the games industry.  (Taking notes yet Kathode?!?!?!?!)

6) For Rage; those shitty blurry 2d sprites still had more personality than pre-fan patch Morrowind.  ANd that's a FACT.  Maybe the team kathode works with realize how empty Morrowind seemed to most RPG players.  And maybe they don''t. Oblivion will let us know if they figured it out or not.

&) FInal point - I didn't take my bday off. I took the day after off. WOohoo! !


There were, I think we can safely say without exaggeration, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people that thought Morrowind had plenty of soul. Listen, I've heard the Fallout arguments a trillion times. I am not a big fan of the games. I think they are grossly, tremendously overrated. However, everything else aside, I think it is just downright silly to immediately condemn each and every thing Bethesda is planning for Fallout3. Let the game come out, give it a FAIR chance. Give it the benefit of the doubt. If it sucks, you will likely let us know about it for the rest of eternity.
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2005, 06:26:23 AM »

Yep, I can certainly understand people when they desire to have a series stay close to its roots, but this outright hatred for something that has yet to be shown, let alone played, boggles my mind.

If it's a good game, I'm buying it.  That's what it boils down to for me.

Sure, a lot of other spin offs were poor games, but those were poor games by their own right.  Those really poor spin offs, like X-com interceptor and enforcer were very much butcheries of the X-com setting.

However, Bethesda has a strong background in creating RPGs, so Fallout would still be an RPG at its core, rather than a Fallout: ROAD RAGE! or SUPER MUTANT MAYHEM action game deal.
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2005, 06:27:38 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
3) Fo:T did have the same setting as FO.  ANd it sucked and did poorly, proving my point.


You'd get a pretty serious disagreement over that among most Fallout fans, who consider FOT to have deviated too much from the classic setting, among other failings.
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2005, 11:20:44 AM »

I'm a fallout fan and have liked every fallout game to come out so far.  I've been working on my own little fallout fan page http://www.falloutforever.com/ Don't rush to it, its just a draft concept. I haven't put up a new version in almost a year. I plan to start up in a few weeks. However when I do start regular updates, I will not have a message board just because the fan base for the games has a vocal minority that are extremely difficult to deal with.

Here is something I wrote up about fallout. Many of you probably already seen it.
The 10 things that make Fallout Fallout and should be used in Fallout 3.

1. Retro future gone wrong. The best fallout games are never far from their retro futuristic roots. In the 1930s to 50s we had a very different view of what the future would be. Fallout used this as a starting point. To me, this is the defining feature of the Fallout universe. Straying from this and you end up with Mad Max or Postman.
2. Established universe character and items. Things such as Ghouls, radscorps, tribes, nuka cola, postcards, pip boy, and so forth.
3. Character stats affect game play. Most crpgs, character stats just affect how hard a puzzle or combat is. In Fallout 1 & 2, they really changed how the game is played.
4. Perks. These are at the heart of customizing your character in the fallout universe.
5. Morbid humor. Things are bleak but if you don’t make them at least somewhat twisted, it ruins the enjoyment of the game. Fallout is not survival horror.
6. The music. Should be 1950s and creepy sci fi. No hip hop or rock.
7. Vague history and world status. We really don’t know what happen and what the status of the rest of the world is and this game shouldn’t change that.
8. Over the top violence.
9. Sex. While it doesn’t need to be XXX in your face (after all, probably need to avoid the dreaded A raying) , sexual relationships were a function in Both Fallout 1 & II and in the back ground of their other games.
10. Harold. – Nuff said


10 things from Fallout that are nice to haves but aren’t required for Fallout 3

1. Turn based combat. While I would hate to see a real time combat engine in the same vain as Diablo, I don’t need turn base gaming. I use to be a turn based only junkie. Partly because I am disabled (paralyzed on the right side) and turn based is the easiest system for me to control. However real time combat that can be paused to issue orders at any time is ok. Thanks to Star Wars, Knight of the Old Republic, I can say that other systems are completely playable.
2. The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Its familiar so it would be nice to see return. It does have its problems and could see it be improved or replaced if the need came.
3. The Isometric view. Its still a viable view as NWN and dungeon siege has shown but I wouldn’t mind something along the lines of Morrowind or SW:KOTOR.
4. The existing story line. While I would like to see the story line of the Wanderer continued, I don’t think its that important.
5. Pets and spouses. They were neat, but if they didn’t add to the story, why bother.
6. Taboo subjects such as drug use, prostitution, slavery, incest and so on.
7. Wacky humor. While I enjoyed some of the stupid humor that was featured in Fallout 2, I know others didn’t
8. Vaults. While the whole of Fallout universe doesn’t rest on the Vault dwellers, they are interesting.
9. Using the map for traveling
10. The high school film intro movie.

10 things from fallout I do NOT want to see return in Fallout 3

1. Timed main quest.
2. The location. I am sick of the American southwest. In fact I really don’t want to see another casino.
3. Brain dead ncps that you can’t control.
4. A palette that consist of brown, and dark brown.
5. Swearing. While more of an issue with FO:BOS, too much swearing really puts a damper on enjoyment
6. Motorized Vehicles. They don’t work, too goofy for the setting.
7. The brotherhood of steel. I’m rather sick of that group
8. Item interface. It just wasn’t very smooth and towards the end, going through everything got to be a real chore.
9. Too many pop culture refs. One or two are fine but Monty Python and Doc Who jokes really take me out of the game.
10. Bugs, game stopping bugs.

10 things that weren’t in Fallout that I would like to see in Fallout 3

1. A 3d engine. One that would use modern 3d cards (pixel shaders) as well would be nice.
2. A somewhat more serious use of religion.
3. In story mutations of characters. Just another way to customize your character and party
4. A city. A real city. Not a few blocks with 2 story huts. Even if its just rubble we should see something of large scale urbanization left behind.
5. In the same vain, buildings should be laid out in a more realistic fashion.
6. Really futuristic weapons and technology. While everything is retro future, some technology to the players should be down right alien
7. A larger time scale. Often rpgs are set within about a year time frame. I like to see a longer time progression. Say 30 years. Really live a characters life. I realize that makes the world difficult because you have to age the world along with the player character. You could get around that by having the character age when traveling long distances, thus making going back not an option.
8. A much larger variety of animals to meet and kill.
9. A more interactive environment. The items of fallout where pretty much limited to path blocking obstacles and storage cabinets. Destructible environments would be cool, but that could get messy and make testing really difficult.
10. The ability to play as something other than human.

10 things not related at all that I don’t want to see.

1. Diablo style combat
2. limited saves. There shall be Nooooooo traveling to a save point, or worse, collect save crystals.
3. Magic, alchemy, character classes or anything that takes Fallout to the realm of fantasy. Maybe some fantasy characters would be ok (after all, maybe something could mutate into a creature not unlike an orc or a dragon) but lets just avoid the genre as much as possible
4. Multiplayer. I’m the hero, its my story.
5. A 6 cd install. DVD rom drives cost $30. There is no excuse not to use the DVD format.
6. Any Japanese RPG like story line featuring a cast of young kids saving the world
7. Aliens. Universe is too rich to get into those.
8. a console only version or worse, a lame console port to the pc.
9. Women with impossible size boobs with hardly any clothes running into combat
10. So called fallout “fans” whining about a game they haven’t played
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2005, 02:52:55 PM »

Hmmm. So now I must be 'a so-called fallout 'fans'.  Well, at least now I know the Rob is the Arbiter of Who's Right and Wrong.

I'm also glad to know that anyone who likes turn-based gaming, well you don't want it anymore, because Rob has moved on.  Therefore, you have to as well.

Anything else the rest of us should know/do because thy hast commanded it Lord Rob?

---------------------------------
In other news, I have often stated that real-time with pause <> turn-based gaming, and clearly I have to do so again.  Can my deadeye Vash-the-Stampede character shoot a rat in the crotch at 200 ft in Fallout 2?  Yes.  Is there any way real-time with pause can enable the same thing? No.  That Simple.  (I'm not even going to bring up the fact that having to pause constantly in order to give orders destroys any flow real-time may have had, so it solves nothing replacing turn based system with it.)  Real time and turn based are fundamentally different game mechanics.  Always has been.  Always wil be.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2005, 03:04:22 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Rob is the Arbiter of Who's Right and Wrong.

No, The Arbiters are Bethesdasoft and Interplayer. You know, the people who own the rights to Fallout. I'm just stating my opinion like everyone else.

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Anything else the rest of us should know/do because thy hast commanded it Lord Rob?


See, thats why game companies don't listen to you.
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Raven
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2005, 03:31:19 PM »

That's a pretty damn good rundown of Fallout.

Not that I agree with all of it, but your opinions are well thought out, so kudos.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2005, 04:58:26 PM »

Quote from: "Raven"
That's a pretty damn good rundown of Fallout.

Not that I agree with all of it, but your opinions are well thought out, so kudos.


Thanks. smile  I don't expect anyone to agree with everything. (After all, I list out a lot of points.)
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Gedd
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2005, 05:24:02 PM »

Rob, I know you threw pets into some category where it's not important, but Dogmeat was one of my favorite aspects of Fallout.

As for the Fallout MMO, it's not so much about putting the Fallout mechanics into the MMO genre that folks want, it's the atmosphere, the style, the story...folks want to "live" in the Fallout world, and having a Fallout MMO would allow that.  Of course a good successor to Fallout allows that too, but it's not quite the same when you're looking at everything from 300 feet in the air.

And no one says that a Fallout MMO needs to be another level treadmill.  I don't think there's a MMO player out there that wouldn't love to see something new and innovative in the genre that actually *works* and doesn't end up with the same old grind.  Of course they want to see something new just so they can complain about it, but MMO players complain about everything. slywink

[edit]

I thiink part of it is just that in a genre overstuffed elves, orcs, and dragons, new environments, stories, and worlds are needed.  There have been some that tried, but they've all been created from scratch (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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Big Jake
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2005, 07:14:45 PM »

Rob, you're wrong on something:

Quote
No, The Arbiters are Bethesdasoft and Interplayer.


Nope. The people who buy games - you know, they're called consumers?  They vote with money.  And unless you would like to argue the sucess of FO:BOS, they've clearly voted many times in the past: changing a TB game to real-time fails EVERY time.  (Name one that succeeded.Please.)

As for me being an ass, this has no bearing on how the people who make these decision think.  The marketing idiots who say "if we make it real time, it will sell like Warcraft 2!" are completely impervious to logic, petitions,  proven past results, explosives, etc.  Once a Suit convinces themselves "we're going to make a ton of money!", nothing will change their mind, not even when the product fails.  (Remember when the last Tomb Raider Movie/Game blamed each other?  Surely there wasn't flawed ideas behind the game - it must have been <outside influence> fault!)


Gedd, Without the mechanics, it's not a Fallout MMO.  It's just another MMO that is Guys with Guns.  And on MMO's and treadmill gaming: name me an MMO that isn't a treadmill.  The entire concept of MMo's was originated by an accountant: 'if we can get them to pay full price for a game, and keep them paying us every month, we'll be rich!'.  It doesn't help that Verant proved this bastard absolutely right.  The goal of the company is only to keep you online, so they will make whatever cicular unending gameplay there is to keep you online - this is the birht of the treadmill, and why all MMO's will be more or less of one.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2005, 11:25:00 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"

Nope. The people who buy games - you know, they're called consumers?  


Producers of product are not slaves to the consumer.  Anyone who has something to sell has within their right as a producer to tell a consumer to go jump off a bridge if they are rude or unruly towards them.  

A producer has the right to producer whatever the hell they want so long as the product does not violate and laws.

A consumer has the right to not buy a product a producer has to sell.

Thats about it.
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2005, 03:03:12 AM »

It's OK Jake.  Fallout non-fans don't understand Fallout fans.

Fallout non-fans don't understand how utterly, blasphemously MORONIC the concept of gang-raping the Fallout IP with a piddly piece of shit MMO is.

Nor do they understand the horror of Bethesda getting the rights to Fallout 3.

We don't want a first-person perspective.
We don't want Bethesda's shitty dialog.
We don't want Bethesda's soulless characters.
We don't want Bethesda's awful combat.
We don't want a sprawling, featureless, boring world.*

In short, we don't want a devhouse who, personal opinions on their (lack of) quality aside, makes games that are about as far away from Fallout as you can get.

(*One of the most brilliant things about Fallout was how it made a boring setting, a frickin' desert, for christ's sake, into one of the most interesting settings seen in a CRPG.  Similarly, Bethesda builds up a great history and great setting on paper, but time and time again fumbles the execution, resulting in god-this-is-so-boring-I-want-to-cry gameplay and environments.)
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Turtle
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2005, 03:37:10 AM »

It's not really helping fallout fan's cases that whenever someone posts against the idea, it sounds almost rabid one sided views.

Also, I'm a huge Fallout fan, it was my first big RPG and hooked me on big RPGs.  And yet I still think a Fallout MMO would be a good idea, but only if they did things right (which with current technology, they couldn't).  I also think Bethesda could do a fine job with the license.
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2005, 06:50:58 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
It's not really helping fallout fan's cases that whenever someone posts against the idea, it sounds almost rabid one sided views.

Also, I'm a huge Fallout fan, it was my first big RPG and hooked me on big RPGs.  And yet I still think a Fallout MMO would be a good idea, but only if they did things right (which with current technology, they couldn't).  I also think Bethesda could do a fine job with the license.
An MMO can't help the Fallout IP.  At all.  No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO.

To make Fallout an MMORPG would basically rip out its strongest elements (story, characterization, tone) and replace it with frothing 12-year-olds happy to finally find an MMORPG that has GUNZ LIEK COUNTARSTRIKE!!!!111~

Herve Caen, the french fuckwit who drove Interplay into the ground, wants to make a Fallout MMO.  Or at least, he says he does for venture captial.

If that's not an indication of how utterly moronic a Fallout MMO is, I don't know what else I can say to convince you.
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Turtle
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2005, 07:25:21 AM »

Setting, characterization, and tone could be preserved with the right team behind it, the story would have to be much less personal.

And as I was saying before, a whole lot of things must come together to make Fallout properly as an MMO, which probably won't ever happen.

Right now, your argument is against a Fallout MMO in the now, meaning you're objecting to them making it with some random team under some strange publisher with whatever guy that was seeking funding running the show.

But I think if they brought back the original fallout gang and a good publisher that understood that keeping to a setting was a good idea (marketing be damned), then a good

It's just that, it's not going to happen.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2005, 11:29:19 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
To make Fallout an MMORPG would basically rip out its strongest elements (story, characterization, tone) and replace it with frothing 12-year-olds happy to finally find an MMORPG that has GUNZ LIEK COUNTARSTRIKE!!!!111~


I'm not one to defend MMORPGs (the whole genre is evil and twisted) but the vast majority of MMORPG players fall in the 29-36 age group. Its a valid genre and as City of Heroes have proven, it is open to more than the elf and fairies setting.
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Gedd
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2005, 12:03:42 PM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Gedd, Without the mechanics, it's not a Fallout MMO.  It's just another MMO that is Guys with Guns.


So if I'm roaming the wasteland with Dogmeat, eating gecko on a stick, fighting against the mutants, interacting with factions and characters from the original games, and my character has taken the bloody mess perk that's not Fallout and it's just Guys with Guns?

Quote
And on MMO's and treadmill gaming: name me an MMO that isn't a treadmill.


I can't because I haven't played one, although I seem to recall there were at least one recently that wasn't and others that have been less of a treadmilll...that doesn't change the fact that MMO players wouldn't be open to a game that didn't feature one.  We've already seen the MMO players open up to a softening of some of the old MMO mechanics with WoW, it's not inconceivable to think that someone else might keep moving the genre away from it.

Quote
The entire concept of MMo's was originated by an accountant: 'if we can get them to pay full price for a game, and keep them paying us every month, we'll be rich!'.  It doesn't help that Verant proved this bastard absolutely right.  The goal of the company is only to keep you online, so they will make whatever cicular unending gameplay there is to keep you online - this is the birht of the treadmill, and why all MMO's will be more or less of one.


Without getting off on too much of a tangent, you also need to keep in mind that it wasn't just the treadmill that made MMOs successful, it was the fact that some people liked the treadmills, and the rest of the folks were willing to deal with the treadmill to get at all the other stuff MMOs gave them.

Quote from: "LE"
To make Fallout an MMORPG would basically rip out its strongest elements (story, characterization, tone)


As Turtle said, there's no reason why you need to rip out those elements to make a Fallout MMO, in fact, I think they would be absolutely necessary.

And why do we keep arguing as if this is a one or the other type of situation.  There's no law that says that a true successor to the Fallout games cuoldn't be done in tandem with an MMO.  If I'm reading Rob's posts correctly, then that's actually what will most likely happen, although I seriously doubt the game Bethesda is working on will be a true successor without the turn-based combat.
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