Ex-Titan Quest Developers working on a new game: Grim Dawn

[Razgon]

If they had gone the M&B way and wanted 10 bucks, I'd be happy to shell that out - but, those prices are way too crazy for me to even think about it.

Oh? The cheapest preorder is $19.85. That's 105 DKK with our current exchange rates. I bet you spend more on your Saturday dinners.

so true - its not that much, but its still money where I have no guarentee at all I will get anything from my money. I know I WILL get my saturday dinner though ;-)

105 DKK won't get you much of a dinner in Copehagen...

But it WILL get you 8 Mcdonal Hamburgers ;-)

[Harkonis]

If they had gone the M&B way and wanted 10 bucks, I'd be happy to shell that out - but, those prices are way too crazy for me to even think about it.

Oh? The cheapest preorder is $19.85. That's 105 DKK with our current exchange rates. I bet you spend more on your Saturday dinners.

so true - its not that much, but its still money where I have no guarentee at all I will get anything from my money. I know I WILL get my saturday dinner though ;-)

As a reference, that guy, Derek from Mindtoygames I think it was called, who was making a game and posted a bit over at OO about it - I gave him my money in advance. Now its what -3 years later, and still nothing.

that would be the one I was talking about where I got burnt.  I would feel more confident in this one though.

[Butterknife]

These sorts of "funding" methods are a terrible idea.  I really hope this sort of thing doesn't catch on -- I do not want to have to start guessing which studios would succeed and actually deliver me a game in the end.

There are some pretty big problems with this method of trying to produce your game.  First, you are going to have the issue of a "large" inflow of cash right away, and then a tiny trickle throughout the rest of the project.  Second, there is no guarantee that the "large" initial amount is large enough.  Third, it makes signing an agreement with an actual publisher more difficult in the future -- a publisher would now know up-front that a portion of their possible sales are already gone.  That, and the publisher now has a commitment to fund the entire game (good or bad) or face a potential lawsuit from unsatisfied customers!  Those things make it harder to find a publisher, not easier.

I just see putting money into something like this as a bad idea.  I know a lot of people that have tried to start their own game development studio, and I only know of 2 who have actually succeeded.  The point is that putting money into this is a longshot.  If 1 in 10 startups succeed, your odds of getting your money back (in the form of a game) are only 1 in 10.  There is no possibility -- at all -- of seeing an actual profit.  They aren't even giving you shares in their company.

It blows my mind that people will give money to something like this.  I watched the shenanigans over on OO with Derek and his vaporware (which he continues to spout propaganda for, even though it has been another year since I last chewed him out).  I'd hate to see that happen again here.  How often are you going to fall for this stuff before you learn?

[TiLT]

They have released a bunch of screenshots now.

http://www.grimdawn.com/media.php

[Turtle]

Yeah, I'd pre-order that if I liked that style of game.  It's clear they've got a lot of progress.

[Harkonis]

If I was employed I would go for the big donation at this point.  I like the style, I like their previous work and I love the type of game.

[Blackjack]

Crate fell asleep at the Blog switch on this, but I just noticed they finally posted a few screenshots in late May:

May Grim Dawn pics
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_screenshots.php

Since it is a small indy project at this point, I don't know what the odds are they'll have any presence at E3.

btw, they did add optional camera rotation to the engine, which they mentioned back in January:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2

I'll be curious on multiplayer cause clearly they can't afford a Battle.net equivalent (even THQ wouldn't give Iron Lore the funds to do that for Titan Quest), and maybe not even a "powered by Gamespy" type set up. I'm kind of past the point of wanting to share IP addresses for a co-op game.

[ydejin]

I just looked over their feature list. I not really seeing anything that compels me to preorder anything. Its getting harder and harder to get excited about yet another Diablo clone. I already have a shelf full of them. Granted TQ was one of the better ones, but its going to take a bit of innovation to convince me that I shouldn't just play one of the other few Diablo-likes coming out or wait for Diablo 3.

Coming in pretty late here for a response, but I would say that the one thing that makes this standout from the other Diablo-like clones is the time period.  It's Victorian era, not Medieval, which is a nice change of pace. 

I loved Titan Quest and played the heck out of it.  One character through all three difficulty levels, and a second character through the first difficulty level + the expansion, got a third character I'm slowly getting through playing with my brother we're somewhere in late China.

I kicked in a donation.  Sure there's a decent chance it's tossing money away.  But it's a chance to support a team that built a game that I really enjoyed a lot.

[rittchard]

I just looked over their feature list. I not really seeing anything that compels me to preorder anything. Its getting harder and harder to get excited about yet another Diablo clone. I already have a shelf full of them. Granted TQ was one of the better ones, but its going to take a bit of innovation to convince me that I shouldn't just play one of the other few Diablo-likes coming out or wait for Diablo 3.

Coming in pretty late here for a response, but I would say that the one thing that makes this standout from the other Diablo-like clones is the time period.  It's Victorian era, not Medieval, which is a nice change of pace. 

I loved Titan Quest and played the heck out of it.  One character through all three difficulty levels, and a second character through the first difficulty level + the expansion, got a third character I'm slowly getting through playing with my brother we're somewhere in late China.

I kicked in a donation.  Sure there's a decent chance it's tossing money away.  But it's a chance to support a team that built a game that I really enjoyed a lot.

If you're having fun with TQ still, be sure to check out the TQ Lilithpaths mod thread that I just bumped up.  Awesome mods that should keep you satisfied until we get some Grim Dawn to check out 

[Blackjack]

fwiw, Crate released some pre-alpha video back in the Fall:
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_videos.php

And a few screenshots more recently (for some reason, the environs don't look near as nice as the video footage -- I think maybe the screenshot resolution got scrunched):
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_screenshots.php

There's been a little controversy (at the Titanquest.Net forums) over guns being in the game (though as they point out, they're in Torchlight, WoW, etc., and they were prominent in the klutzy French Diablo wannabe Silverfall), which you see in the screenshots.

[ydejin]

There's been a little controversy (at the Titanquest.Net forums) over guns being in the game (though as they point out, they're in Torchlight, WoW, etc., and they were prominent in the klutzy French Diablo wannabe Silverfall), which you see in the screenshots.

Grim Dawn is in a totally different time period.  This is not a standard fantasy game.  It's set in the Victorian period (i.e., roughly the same time period as Steampunk).  Personally I'm excited that it's not just another swords and sorcery game.

We'll have to see how guns do from a gameplay perspective.

[Gratch]

And a few screenshots more recently (for some reason, the environs don't look near as nice as the video footage -- I think maybe the screenshot resolution got scrunched):
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_screenshots.php

Needs more brown. 

[Blackjack]

First pre-alpha gameplay trailer's out:
http://www.grimdawn.com/media_videos.php

Or directly at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqGP4LT_cYo&feature=player_embedded

Huzzah! At long last, we are very proud to present our first video of Grim Dawn gameplay. This video shows a mostly soldier class character rampaging through the Burrwitch Slums area outside Devil's Crossing. Behold as zombies are gibbed, furniture is trashed, and... well, more things are gibbed! Rounding out the end of the video is a peak at one of the demolition class skills: canister bomb.

Don't expect the Mona Lisa. There's a lot of gibbage, some destructability (bashing doors and barricades open, causing door pieces to flying etc.) and some physics at work visually, and any Titan Quest fan should be pleased with what they see, imho.  

[EngineNo9]

I didn't think that video looked bad at all.  And it certainly makes it a lot more real, and me more willing to preorder to support some indie guys.  Here's to hoping they can make it out before Diablo 3.

[The Rocketman]

I liked that video. The running animation seems to be the same one they used in Titan Quest, but the speed and 'feel' of combat is now less floaty, more direct, more powerful and faster. More akin to Diablo 2. Shows promise...

[McBa1n]

Indeed, looks very promising. Titan Quest just missed the mark somehow and I can't figure it out. I enjoyed it enough to play thru it a couple of times with different characters. I love me some hack and slash and adrenaline. It's shocking how few games really capture that feeling of fun when you're constantly in a shiticane and you blow everything up and maybe get some usable loot out of the deal.

[Blackjack]

RPS interview update on this... (a few screenshots, not sure if they're new?)
Titanic Quest: Crate Speak About Grim Dawn
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/03/titanic-quest-crate-speak-about-grim-dawn/
Lot of memories bout Titan Quest...

What a lot of people don’t realize is that many, if not most independent studios, make little or no money off the actual sales of games they develop. If you take the case of Titan Quest and Immortal Throne, information I’ve been given put the combined sales over a million copies in late 2008. At that time I heard that it had reached profitability for THQ. Since then it has continued to do surprisingly well in digital sales given its age. Yet, the owners of Iron Lore never and probably will never receive a royalty payment due to the structure of the funding deal.

Studios survive by jumping right from one publisher funded project to the next and try to build enough of a profit margin into their development budgets that they can potentially survive a few months between funded projects. Supporting a thirty person development team, similar to what Iron Lore and most mid-sized studios employ can cost $300,000 a month or more when you add up salaries, office rent, taxes, and other operating costs. Those costs don’t all stop after the last publisher payment is cashed and until funding starts for a new game, the studio is just burning through whatever they’ve managed to stash away.

It generally takes a hit game before a studio can build up enough of a nest-egg that there is some breathing room in this cycle. Until that happens, the count-down to bankruptcy is always running and each new funded project just puts a little more time on the clock. For a variety of reasons, some just bad luck, Iron Lore couldn’t line up that next project fast enough and the clock ran out…

What they seem to be doing on this (maybe they talked about it before, it's been a while) is work on it in bits and pieces so it's sort of a "fund the project as you go" type thing:

RPS: You’ve already started talking about DLC. Are you intending for this to be content that adds onto the end of the game, or expands it sideways?

Bruno: It will likely be a bit of both. The first release of Grim Dawn will be somewhat comparable to Greece in Titan Quest. That is to say, it will be about one-third of the content that players might expect in a full-sized game, which is why we’ve priced the normal edition at one-third the cost of a full-sized game. That idea is that we’re too small a team to produce a full-sized game on the first go, so we’re doing it in pieces. Players will really get a bit more than a third of a game though with the first release since it will include a fairly robust feature set and allow them to replay it on higher difficulties to continue levelling their character.

We’re hoping profits from the first release will allow us to expand our team a bit and follow up quickly with more content. Subsequent content will both extend the game with new regions of the world and add to the earlier areas with new classes, equipment, enemies, and quests.

It just seems like with D3 and Torchlight 2 on the horizon, getting ever closer, it's going to be tough for a small indy project to not get overlooked.

[forgeforsaken]

They've started a Kickstarter to finish this. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawn

[Misguided]

Kickstarter is killing me.

[Harkonis]

Can we start a Kickstarter project to speed up the death of Misguided? 

[farley2k]

Kickstarter is killing me.

Me too.  I have funded several games in the last couple weeks alone.  And hell I never finish the games I have!

[naednek]

I remember not so long ago, that when I go to a store/website and purchase the game, that money went towards the production of the product and any profit would be invested into their next game.

Then there was DLC, where they give you a portion of the game and expect you to buy the rest in incremental packages.

Now it seems the trend is that they expect the consumers to give them money to make the game, then if that wasn't enough, you had to buy the finished product, and I'm sure DLC is involved somewhere.

And we as gamers accept it as if it's a great idea.

Pretty soon, they're going to expect the gaming community to code the game for them, yet still pay them the $$$ for our work.

[CeeKay]

Now it seems the trend is that they expect the consumers to give them money to make the game, then if that wasn't enough, you had to buy the finished product, and I'm sure DLC is involved somewhere.

as far as I know this is the first Kickstarter one to do that.  Chances are they won't get my money until it's on sale for under 18 bucks.

$18 - Digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free at a low price for your early support. Can be downloaded directly from us or via Steam and other distribution sites + Exclusive "Service Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

I doubt they'd be this dumb, but I'll LOL if the low price is $39.99 while the regular price is $49.99.

[Blackadar]

I remember not so long ago, that when I go to a store/website and purchase the game, that money went towards the production of the product and any profit would be invested into their next game.

Then there was DLC, where they give you a portion of the game and expect you to buy the rest in incremental packages.

Now it seems the trend is that they expect the consumers to give them money to make the game, then if that wasn't enough, you had to buy the finished product, and I'm sure DLC is involved somewhere.

And we as gamers accept it as if it's a great idea.

Pretty soon, they're going to expect the gaming community to code the game for them, yet still pay them the $$$ for our work.

Oh, DLC is involved:

If the project reaches the goal, he will then be eligible to receive the following rewards (when released):
Kickstarter exclusive in-game "Officer's Medal"
Special Will-O'-The-Wisp pet
High resolution digital map
Small fold out paper map of the world of Cairn
First expansion DLC free when released
Special Edition box, with physical game and soundtrack discs

This just sounds like a friggin' rip-off to me.  "Hey, you preordered the game for $48, but now we need another $52 to finish it.  Oh yea, we'll give you the DLC if you do this *and* we reach our goal."   

[Misguided]

Not sure what you mean. If you pay 18 bucks, you get the game. They are saying that the retail price once it comes out will be higher than that, but you are getting a better price now for helping fund the creation of it.

Oh and Hark, bite my shiny metal ass.

Now it seems the trend is that they expect the consumers to give them money to make the game, then if that wasn't enough, you had to buy the finished product, and I'm sure DLC is involved somewhere.

as far as I know this is the first Kickstarter one to do that.  Chances are they won't get my money until it's on sale for under 18 bucks.

$18 - Digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free at a low price for your early support. Can be downloaded directly from us or via Steam and other distribution sites + Exclusive "Service Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

I doubt they'd be this dumb, but I'll LOL if the low price is $39.99 while the regular price is $49.99.

[CeeKay]

Pledge $18 or more

Digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free at a low price for your early support. Can be downloaded directly from us or via Steam and other distribution sites + Exclusive "Service Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

Pledge $35 or more

Early Access Edition with digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free + Exclusive access to the beta + Digital download of Grim Dawn original music + "Veteran's Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

note the $35 tier (or any tier above it) doesn't say 'at a low price' like the $18 tier, which makes it sound like $18 plus $x for a lower price than what it'll cost.  it could be bad wording on their part, maybe they'll clarify it later on.

[Misguided]

For the extra money, you are getting beta access. This is a case of poor wording.

Pledge $18 or more

Digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free at a low price for your early support. Can be downloaded directly from us or via Steam and other distribution sites + Exclusive "Service Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

Pledge $35 or more

Early Access Edition with digital download of finished game for PC, DRM free + Exclusive access to the beta + Digital download of Grim Dawn original music + "Veteran's Medal" in-game accessory, available only on Kickstarter.

note the $35 tier (or any tier above it) doesn't say 'at a low price' like the $18 tier, which makes it sound like $18 plus $x for a lower price than what it'll cost.  it could be bad wording on their part, maybe they'll clarify it later on.

[Blackjack]

With a bunch of mostly part-time devs working on a shoestring budget, I'd read DLC as "wishful, hopeful thinking that they'll still have the financial flexibility to continue working on the game after release, and actually have anything to work on." A problem with a lot of Diablo wannabes over the years was the game didn't sell very well, the devs would have nothing else to work on, good bye dev.

That said, I just don't think these guys are in any situation to be yakking about DLC. imho, most of the masses of action RPGs will be satiated by Diablo 3 next month and Torchlight 2 later this year. I only thought Grim Dawn had a fighting chance if it could get out before those 900-lb gorillas, and clearly it's not happening.

I am impressed with the gameplay videos, and I'd probably be more inclined to support a game where you have something concrete to see rather than someone yakking about something that only exists on paper.

[TiLT]

That said, I just don't think these guys are in any situation to be yakking about DLC. imho, most of the masses of action RPGs will be satiated by Diablo 3 next month and Torchlight 2 later this year. I only thought Grim Dawn had a fighting chance if it could get out before those 900-lb gorillas, and clearly it's not happening.

Grim Dawn actually looks pretty different in gameplay from those games. Have you seen the videos on the Kickstarter page? Those definitely don't show typical Diablo gameplay.

[Misguided]

I agree the timing is unfortunate, but I will buy all three, and I think a lot of others will too. A lot of people loved Titan Quest. Not Diablo numbers, but they don't have to be.

[EngineNo9]

They've started a Kickstarter to finish this. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawn

And they have just met their goal with 10 days still to go.  Good for them!  Hopefully this gives them some full-time help so they can get the game out a bit quicker (not that we need it too soon with Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 knocking on the door).

[Blackjack]

Gamespy got some hands-on time with Grim Dawn:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/grim-dawn/1224555p1.html

The simple act of blowing up a wall and jumping off the beaten path made me feel as if I was in control of this adventure. I wasn't being pulled along by the wrist, I was making my own way in this world gone wrong. And it felt great.

Bruno warned me not to get too comfortable with locations I learned to use to my advantage, though, because they might not be there the next time I played through. Grim Dawn features a dynamic-barrier system that spawns immovable and indestructible objects that force players to choose different paths.

"After a few runthroughs, players tend to find the most optimized path through a level. We play those same paths over and over again, and that leads to tedium. This is a way to promote players to try something different and to have a better experience. Maps aren't totally randomized, but it's a good compromise."

Though there will be plenty of elements that are completely randomized, Bruno said. Yes, there will be different enemies spawning in different places, but that's just the tip of the random iceberg. Crate is working on a system that will spawn random NPC camps capable of giving quests, create random events such as enemies attacking a group of humans which players must try to save, and even random entrances into Cairn's vast underground.

[CeeKay]

soldier + demolition melee build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NoO2UecC-c&feature=player_embedded

[ydejin]

Just under 24-hours left to go.  Here are the current stretch goals for the project:

$465k - Additional end-game boss (total of 3) to encounter in some dark and dangerous corner of the world.
$480k - New survivor town hidden in the remote wilderness for you to discover.* Will include a new faction group and new quest-lines to unlock once you've gained their trust.
$490k - 2 additional monster types (models and animations) and another 25 extra pieces of unique item art.
$500k - A new dungeon art-set with a choice of catacombs or sewers that you'll get to vote on.
$520 - SURVIVAL MODE! We'll create a new gameplay mode that will be free for all backers (KS or Website Pre-order).  In survival mode players will fight to stay alive against increasingly difficult waves of monsters.  It will release sometime after the game so as not to delay development.

[EngineNo9]

They've passed the $500k goal with 4 hours to go, so chances are good that they will hit the final mark as well. 

[ydejin]

Alpha Release is Tomorrow.

[EddieA]

RPGVault has some alpha gameplay videos.