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Author Topic: European PS3 'gimped' for BC?  (Read 2237 times)
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Destructor
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« on: February 23, 2007, 01:17:30 PM »

This makes so little sense it can't be true. But according to this, it isn't:

Quote
Sony has changed the specification of the PlayStation 3 for Europe, raising doubts over the number of PlayStation 2 games that will be compatible with the next-gen machine.

"Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3," said David Reeves, president of SCEE.

Sony has said that 'a new combination of hardware and software emulation will enable the PS3 to be compatible with a broad range of original PlayStation titles, and a limited range of PS2 titles'.

Sony will publish a backwards compatibility list on the PS3's launch day, March 23, with additional titles becoming compatible through downloads via the PlayStation Network.

"The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as in the US and Japanese models," a Sony spokesperson told Reuters.

Uh... Can somebody tell me why exactly this is a good thing? Or why Sony would do it in the first place? The article does talk about bringing the costs down (apparently by not including the PS2 chip that's currently in all PS3s), but...wouldn't that still cost them a lot of money to have multiple 'types' of PS3s all around the world?

EDIT: How many people sold off their PS2s thinking that they'd get full PS3 backwards compatibility with their shiny new console purchase? That's the issue here, methinks. Especially with some VERY big name PS2 titles due out in a few months.

EDIT2: Apparently I made the front page. biggrin
http://www.gamingtrend.com/News/news.php?NewsID=8375

Here's a question for you - is Sony going to be using this 'cheaper' PS3 for the US/Japan consoles once the original stock runs out?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2007, 01:50:29 PM by Destructor » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2007, 02:10:50 PM »

Yeah I am not sure about this either. I love love love the BC of my PS3-one of the reasons I relatively early adopted.
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2007, 02:15:13 PM »

Wow, so Europe has to pay more than the USA and Japan....plus they get the PS2 hardware ripped out!

Why do companies always treat Europe like a second class citizen? One positive thing about this for the rest of the world, if the Emulator is alomost done, that means that downloaded PS1 games should be playable very soon on the PS3. smile
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2007, 02:16:22 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 23, 2007, 02:15:13 PM

Wow, so Europe has to pay more than the USA and Japan....plus they get the PS2 hardware ripped out!

Why do companies always treat Europe like a second class citizen? One positive thing about this for the rest of the world, if the Emulator is alomost done, that means that downloaded PS1 games should be playable very soon on the PS3. smile

ANd the funny thing is the other day I was all proclaiming Europe maybe really helping Sony out in the long run this gen...way to, um, not really treat them right Sony smile
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2007, 02:50:20 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 23, 2007, 01:17:30 PM

wouldn't that still cost them a lot of money to have multiple 'types' of PS3s all around the world?

Europe consoles have to be PAL compatible so they likely would have to be different anyway. 

Quote
Here's a question for you - is Sony going to be using this 'cheaper' PS3 for the US/Japan consoles once the original stock runs out?

Very likely.  They've long said that they want move to a software emulation model for BC but it sounds like it's not ready for prime time if they are only offering a limited selection of PS2 titles.

Truly a baffling move. 
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2007, 03:32:59 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 23, 2007, 02:50:20 PM

[
Quote
Here's a question for you - is Sony going to be using this 'cheaper' PS3 for the US/Japan consoles once the original stock runs out?

Very likely.  They've long said that they want move to a software emulation model for BC but it sounds like it's not ready for prime time if they are only offering a limited selection of PS2 titles.

well crap.  I may have to grab one sooner then.  I'd hate to find some PS2 game that I really wanted to play and not be able to properl enjoy it.

* CeeKay glares at Red Dead Revolver

and is it just me, or is anyone else starting to NOT be surprised by Sony stupidity?
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2007, 03:55:43 PM »

Its just you at this point IM SHOCKED... I dont understand with changing to "PAL" from NTSC why they have to lose backward's compatabilty.. ITs a great selling point, but maybe they are looking at the 360 market and saying it wasnt important there... but the catalog was not as rich...
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2007, 04:44:08 PM »

The only thing I can possibly think of is like Hetz said - the emulator for the PS1 is nearly done, and they're working on the emulator for the PS2. Didn't they say that they were gonna remove the PS2 chip eventually to cut back costs once the emulator is done?

It's still a bad thing, but maybe it's not quite as negative as it was when I first posted it.

I still feel sorry for those who buy the PS3 in Europe on day one and are surprised to see that their shiny new console can't play their older games.
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2007, 05:47:56 PM »

Didn't Sony also say something like Europeans "don't mind waiting" for the PS3 delay(s)? I always thought we had it bad here in the States (when it comes to getting some of the bigger Japanese games in particular) but Europe has it even worse than us.
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 05:49:48 PM »

Funny - I remembered reading this prescient post on An Inferior Gaming Site a couple of weeks ago:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/sony-cutting-costs-on-ps3-234222.php#c936854

and thinking "That seems like a recipe for disaster; European customers are already pissed off about delay/price.  That can't be right."
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2007, 06:19:05 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 23, 2007, 05:49:48 PM

Funny - I remembered reading this prescient post on An Inferior Gaming Site a couple of weeks ago:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/sony-cutting-costs-on-ps3-234222.php#c936854

and thinking "That seems like a recipe for disaster; European customers are already pissed off about delay/price.  That can't be right."

Pretty impressive to see somebody get it right on like that. And weeks before the doom and gloom announcement came through.

And one last thing I didn't say before - the Europeans better not import a better (US/Japan) PS3 as Sony will lay the smackdown on your ass (as well as the store you got it from) for doing so.  paranoid
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2007, 08:59:09 PM »

Wonder if stuff like this is why PC gaming seems more popular over then than in the US now. Gamers tired of the console guys treating them like second class consumers.
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2007, 10:11:54 PM »

It could be a nice helping of FUD for the US/Japan markets - buy now while you can still get hardware backcompat!
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2007, 12:18:03 AM »

This totally pisses me off. Assuming that Sony will eventually discontinue the current model and distribute the crippled model worldwide, it means two things. First, I can never get rid of my PS2. If my current PS3 ever breaks, I'll have no way to play my PS2 games (depending on how limited the backcompat list is) if I can't find an original model. Second, I'm going to live in fear of PS3 firmware updates. I can totally see Sony releasing a patch disabling the PS2 hardware across all models once the emulation software is released.

Fuck you Sony.
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2007, 01:55:50 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on February 24, 2007, 12:18:03 AM

I can totally see Sony releasing a patch disabling the PS2 hardware across all models once the emulation software is released.

yeah, i deliberately got the ps3 ahead of schedule as much to get one with the ps2 hardware on board as anything, & will also be pretty damned disappointed if they do indeed disable it - it's worked perfectly since the last update...
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2007, 05:07:37 AM »

so when i said that if i got one,it would only be for 2 games(FF13 and MGS4)...it really WAS for 2 games,LOL
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2007, 02:14:18 PM »

Quote from: semiconscious on February 24, 2007, 01:55:50 AM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on February 24, 2007, 12:18:03 AM

I can totally see Sony releasing a patch disabling the PS2 hardware across all models once the emulation software is released.
yeah, i deliberately got the ps3 ahead of schedule as much to get one with the ps2 hardware on board as anything, & will also be pretty damned disappointed if they do indeed disable it - it's worked perfectly since the last update...

One reason why I'll be avoiding updating my PS3 like the plague. Yeah, I might lose out on the ability to play online and access their store (although there's ways around that already that I've seen), but I'd rather keep my 99.9% backwards compatibility.
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2007, 03:57:11 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 24, 2007, 02:14:18 PM

Quote from: semiconscious on February 24, 2007, 01:55:50 AM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on February 24, 2007, 12:18:03 AM

I can totally see Sony releasing a patch disabling the PS2 hardware across all models once the emulation software is released.
yeah, i deliberately got the ps3 ahead of schedule as much to get one with the ps2 hardware on board as anything, & will also be pretty damned disappointed if they do indeed disable it - it's worked perfectly since the last update...

One reason why I'll be avoiding updating my PS3 like the plague. Yeah, I might lose out on the ability to play online and access their store (although there's ways around that already that I've seen), but I'd rather keep my 99.9% backwards compatibility.

If they do I'm sure someone will probably hack the firmware like the did with the PSP and release it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2007, 04:29:36 PM »

If someone hacks the PS3 and makes things as accessible as they are on the PSP you can kiss any kind of Software sales goodbye. I am actually appalled by the ease in which someone can modify their PSP and then get illegal games. It's no wonder that the PSP has horrible software sales when the games show up online weeks in advance and on sites you can access with a simple Google Search. Those same communities are already working on a PS3 solution, and I wouldn't doubt if it became as simple as downloading a file through your PS3 web browser.

It's a shame too. I think the PS3 will rock eventually, but piracy could really hurt things.
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2007, 07:14:31 PM »

Quote
It's a shame too. I think the PS3 will rock eventually, but piracy could really hurt things.

It sure the hell didn't help the Dreamcast!
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2007, 11:36:40 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 24, 2007, 07:14:31 PM

Quote
It's a shame too. I think the PS3 will rock eventually, but piracy could really hurt things.
It sure the hell didn't help the Dreamcast!

Good point.
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM »

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.

That is intriguing if true.
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2007, 05:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.

So in otherwords, the Euro version will be SUPERIOR for backwards compat?  I suspect the revision2 hardware for the PS3 in the USA will use this method as well then.
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2007, 05:31:48 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on February 25, 2007, 05:30:16 PM

Quote from: Misguided on February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.

So in otherwords, the Euro version will be SUPERIOR for backwards compat?  I suspect the revision2 hardware for the PS3 in the USA will use this method as well then.

The Revision 1 hardware will have access to the emulator as well, so we will get the best of both worlds.
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2007, 05:40:59 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 24, 2007, 11:36:40 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 24, 2007, 07:14:31 PM

Quote
It's a shame too. I think the PS3 will rock eventually, but piracy could really hurt things.
It sure the hell didn't help the Dreamcast!

Good point.

I agree that piracy and hacking is what may eventually kill the PS3.  Despite all of Sony's blunders the PS3 will eventually turn the corner hardware sales wise.  Although software sales could be another story. 
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2007, 05:57:50 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 25, 2007, 05:31:48 PM

Quote from: Kobra on February 25, 2007, 05:30:16 PM

Quote from: Misguided on February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.

So in otherwords, the Euro version will be SUPERIOR for backwards compat?  I suspect the revision2 hardware for the PS3 in the USA will use this method as well then.

The Revision 1 hardware will have access to the emulator as well, so we will get the best of both worlds.

Damn straight! early adopting ftw smile
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2007, 08:40:16 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on February 25, 2007, 05:57:50 PM

Quote from: Hetz on February 25, 2007, 05:31:48 PM

Quote from: Kobra on February 25, 2007, 05:30:16 PM

Quote from: Misguided on February 25, 2007, 03:19:18 PM

SCEE announced the Euro version of PlayStation 3 will use a combination of hardware and software emulation to support backward compatibility for PS2 and PS1 titles. Currently a limited range of PS2 games and 98% of all PSone games will be compatible with PS3; additional titles will be made compatible through firmware updates. The emulation approach will allow PS3 to play back PS2 and PSone titles in high resolution.

This was pasted from magic box, with emphasis added by me.
I just read the press release, though, and have no idea where they got this from.

So in otherwords, the Euro version will be SUPERIOR for backwards compat?  I suspect the revision2 hardware for the PS3 in the USA will use this method as well then.

The Revision 1 hardware will have access to the emulator as well, so we will get the best of both worlds.

Damn straight! early adopting ftw smile


I have yet to see any case in the last decade where early adopting anything electronic actually was the best decision.  I think in this case, just like all of the other consoles, waiting for the second revision of the hardware would be most prudent.
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2007, 08:42:29 PM »

There's always the fact that if no one adopts said electronic device early,  there probably won't Be a later version.
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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2007, 01:06:07 PM »

http://threespeech.com/blog/index.php

Update:

"Harrison would not be drawn on specific PS2 titles which will be playable on PS3 on March 23, but it seems the only problem we will have is deciding which ones to play: “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles.” That enough for you? Even when you’ve played your way through MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis 3, Call of Duty 3, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Formula One Championship Edition and so on?"

Over 1,000 titles is not bad at all for software emulation. Also, this summer it is rumored that there will be an update so that PS2 games will be able to be upscaled to 720p/1080i. smile
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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2007, 01:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 01, 2007, 01:06:07 PM

http://threespeech.com/blog/index.php

Update:

"Harrison would not be drawn on specific PS2 titles which will be playable on PS3 on March 23, but it seems the only problem we will have is deciding which ones to play: “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles.” That enough for you? Even when you’ve played your way through MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis 3, Call of Duty 3, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Formula One Championship Edition and so on?"

Over 1,000 titles is not bad at all for software emulation. Also, this summer it is rumored that there will be an update so that PS2 games will be able to be upscaled to 720p/1080i. smile
If this rumor comes true my early adopting will be even easier to justify smile NOW WHERE IS TEKKEN SIR?
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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2007, 01:18:56 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 01, 2007, 01:12:50 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 01, 2007, 01:06:07 PM

http://threespeech.com/blog/index.php

Update:

"Harrison would not be drawn on specific PS2 titles which will be playable on PS3 on March 23, but it seems the only problem we will have is deciding which ones to play: “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles.” That enough for you? Even when you’ve played your way through MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis 3, Call of Duty 3, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Formula One Championship Edition and so on?"

Over 1,000 titles is not bad at all for software emulation. Also, this summer it is rumored that there will be an update so that PS2 games will be able to be upscaled to 720p/1080i. smile
If this rumor comes true my early adopting will be even easier to justify smile NOW WHERE IS TEKKEN SIR?

Usually, PSN updates around 5PM EST. It's coming! smile
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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2007, 01:37:42 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 01, 2007, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 01, 2007, 01:12:50 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 01, 2007, 01:06:07 PM

http://threespeech.com/blog/index.php

Update:

"Harrison would not be drawn on specific PS2 titles which will be playable on PS3 on March 23, but it seems the only problem we will have is deciding which ones to play: “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles.” That enough for you? Even when you’ve played your way through MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis 3, Call of Duty 3, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Formula One Championship Edition and so on?"

Over 1,000 titles is not bad at all for software emulation. Also, this summer it is rumored that there will be an update so that PS2 games will be able to be upscaled to 720p/1080i. smile
If this rumor comes true my early adopting will be even easier to justify smile NOW WHERE IS TEKKEN SIR?

Usually, PSN updates around 5PM EST. It's coming! smile

Oh ok thanks man, I wont get home till like 8 anyways frown Remember the good old days when I only had classes for like 3 hours a day Hetz? Yeah, I want that back.
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2007, 01:42:17 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on March 01, 2007, 01:06:07 PM

"Harrison would not be drawn on specific PS2 titles which will be playable on PS3 on March 23, but it seems the only problem we will have is deciding which ones to play: “The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles.” That enough for you? Even when you’ve played your way through MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, Ridge Racer 7, Virtua Tennis 3, Call of Duty 3, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Formula One Championship Edition and so on?"

You beat me to it. biggrin

That said - that wasn't that hard for Sony to get out there and say this, eh? If they would've said this, I don't know, IN THE BEGINNING, we wouldn't have all been bitching to hell and back.
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Arkon
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2007, 01:43:46 PM »

Dumb question, but how is displaying a PS1 or PS2 game, that is 480i in 1080i going to be awesome?  That is like watching standard def tv on an HDTV which looks worse than on a standard def TV in general.  Isn't this just going to make the games look worse?
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Destructor
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« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2007, 01:52:54 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on March 01, 2007, 01:43:46 PM

Dumb question, but how is displaying a PS1 or PS2 game, that is 480i in 1080i going to be awesome?  That is like watching standard def tv on an HDTV which looks worse than on a standard def TV in general.  Isn't this just going to make the games look worse?

Just like how AA and AF can make classic PC games look decent enough to play again. The PS2 had a function like that for PS1 games. For some titles it was a very drastic improvement.
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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2007, 01:56:42 PM »

Ah I didn't realise that.  If it actually makes them look better then cool...if money wasn't so tight for me I would consider getting a PS3 this spring.  I am guessing the first big RPG will put me over the edge.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2007, 02:01:12 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on March 01, 2007, 01:43:46 PM

Dumb question, but how is displaying a PS1 or PS2 game, that is 480i in 1080i going to be awesome?  That is like watching standard def tv on an HDTV which looks worse than on a standard def TV in general.  Isn't this just going to make the games look worse?

To play SD games on HDTV there are two methods:

1) Console outputs 480i/480p and the TV's scaler is used to convert the material to 720p/1080i.  This is what happens when you play a last gen console on an HDTV now and is what PS3's current hardware BC provides.

2) Have the console itself render and output a 720p/1080i image.  This will produce a far superior image compared to Option 1.  Yes, things like textures are still going to be limited but the overall image quality improvements are substantial.  This is what software emulation BC methods allow you to do and what the 360 currently uses and what the new PS3 solution will do. 

Anyone who has used the Playstation 1 emulators out there to play PS1 games in high resolution can attest to the substantial image quality improvements that can be had by such a method. 
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« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2007, 03:53:25 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on March 01, 2007, 01:42:17 PM

That said - that wasn't that hard for Sony to get out there and say this, eh? If they would've said this, I don't know, IN THE BEGINNING, we wouldn't have all been bitching to hell and back.

an example of why even the info being spewed that isn't complete nonsense still needs to be taken with a grain of salt...
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