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Author Topic: Empire: Total War Steam REQUIRED?  (Read 8931 times)
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Darkstar One
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« on: January 28, 2009, 01:27:02 PM »

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewstory&threadid=95164

So let me get this straight.  I buy it in the store--or off another digital download service--and I STILL have to authenticate with Steam?

**** that.

I had the Collector's Edition preordered.  HAD being the operative word.  There are other ways to protect your product
besides requiring people to install Steam EVEN if they get the game from another digital download source.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 02:07:09 PM »

That's not any different than say Half-Life 2 and it's brethren. Also, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT FOREVAR!
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baelthazar
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 04:30:13 PM »

You won't be buying Dawn of War II either, then. It also requires Steam. I don't want to get in to a Steam argument (pros, cons, etc). But I will say that you Amish/Luddites better get with the game or you won't be playing many new releases.  ninja

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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 04:35:01 PM »

Steam is your friend.  Embrace the Steam, love the Steam...
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 05:53:55 PM »

I love having it through Steam. I never have to hunt around for the disks anymore. Now if steam suddenly died and all my games went bye bye that would suck. slywink
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 06:21:26 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 28, 2009, 02:07:09 PM

That's not any different than say Half-Life 2 and it's brethren.

...and that's why I've never played Half Life 2.
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baelthazar
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 06:33:06 PM »

And this is why you fail.  Tongue

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Eduardo X
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 06:47:25 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 28, 2009, 06:21:26 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 28, 2009, 02:07:09 PM

That's not any different than say Half-Life 2 and it's brethren.

...and that's why I've never played Half Life 2.
It has been like 5 years since that game was launched, so I don't recall why people hate Steam. What is it again?
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morlac
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 07:37:32 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 28, 2009, 06:47:25 PM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 28, 2009, 06:21:26 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on January 28, 2009, 02:07:09 PM

That's not any different than say Half-Life 2 and it's brethren.

...and that's why I've never played Half Life 2.
It has been like 5 years since that game was launched, so I don't recall why people hate Steam. What is it again?

It rhymes with ream?

I believe it's a one time check as well.  Much preferred imo over something like securerom.
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 07:41:18 PM »

Too bad for you.

I'm all over it.  Steam rules.

I hate DRM that screws your computer as much as anyone, but steps like this don't bother me at all.
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 10:15:51 PM »

I was going to pick this up in the store but seeing that it requires Steam, I'll buy it on Steam instead.  Now if only they have another sale.
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 11:07:24 PM »

I want Steam to have my babies.  I love Steam.  Steam loves me.
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 11:40:35 PM »

Quote from: warning on January 28, 2009, 11:07:24 PM

I want Steam to have my babies.  I love Steam.  Steam loves me.

Wait for it....














Wait for it....







Pics? Tongue
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morlac
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 12:20:40 AM »

Quote from: warning on January 28, 2009, 11:07:24 PM

I want Steam to have my babies.  I love Steam.  Steam loves me.

Doesn't that give you blisters?
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 12:34:53 AM »

I hate Steam. Every time I open it, it goes to the store and I want to buy more games.
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2009, 01:10:58 AM »

I, too, dislike it.

The idea that we have to get permission to use a game we legally purchased? Not cool.

I saw the subservient posts loving Steam but I see it as evidence of more and more creeping invasion of our privacy. Sure it's just silly games but it's tiresome and constant; we're watched by videocameras, required to present ID at the drop of a hat, can't friggin play a game without permission now. The sad part is how nonchalantly people shrug and say it doesn't matter that there's no option.

Hell, they love Big Brother!
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2009, 01:26:05 AM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on January 29, 2009, 01:10:58 AM

I, too, dislike it.

The idea that we have to get permission to use a game we legally purchased? Not cool.

I saw the subservient posts loving Steam but I see it as evidence of more and more creeping invasion of our privacy. Sure it's just silly games but it's tiresome and constant; we're watched by videocameras, required to present ID at the drop of a hat, can't friggin play a game without permission now. The sad part is how nonchalantly people shrug and say it doesn't matter that there's no option.

Hell, they love Big Brother!

YOU.HAVE.BEEN.MARKED.
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2009, 04:58:07 AM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on January 29, 2009, 01:10:58 AM

I, too, dislike it.

The idea that we have to get permission to use a game we legally purchased? Not cool.

I saw the subservient posts loving Steam but I see it as evidence of more and more creeping invasion of our privacy. Sure it's just silly games but it's tiresome and constant; we're watched by videocameras, required to present ID at the drop of a hat, can't friggin play a game without permission now. The sad part is how nonchalantly people shrug and say it doesn't matter that there's no option.

Hell, they love Big Brother!

Dude.  It's a digital locker that stores my games.  I can reformat my hard drive, install Steam and tell it what games I want it to download and it's done.  I don't have to hunt for the discs, or patches, or tweak crap to make it compatible.  It just works like I want it to.

Now I've never bought a retail game that I had to activate using Steam.  But I'm pretty much done buying retail PC games anyway.  If I can't buy it through Steam or Impulse or GOG then I'm not that interested anymore.
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 05:01:10 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 29, 2009, 12:34:53 AM

I hate Steam. Every time I open it, it goes to the store and I want to buy more games.

In Steam go to File -> Settings -> Interface and under Favorite Window choose Games.  It will now open your games list when Steam starts or when you double click on the system tray icon instead of going to the store window.
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2009, 08:06:51 AM »

Didn't we know that Steam was going to be required as long as a couple of months ago?  How has this suddenly just become news?
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baelthazar
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM »

Retail PC game buying is dead. I hate having to go to some Gamestop where an idiotic teenager tells me about some banal console game, then I wade past all of the giant console section full of 20 copies of the same game or same type of games, so that I get to go to the back of the store like some outcast to pour over open and beaten PC game boxes that are put in no order and stacked like leftovers from Thanksgiving. To hell with that! I would rather deal with "renting" from Steam than feel degraded at the Gamestop.

Bael
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2009, 03:12:47 PM »

Now, now - Gamestop may be dead to you, be retail PC game buying isn't dead, ya goof  icon_wink.  That's about as ridiculous as saying "PC gaming is dead."  It's overall impact on the marketplace has been reduced by the availability of viable alternatives and it will stay that way, sure, but DEAD?!?  No. 
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morlac
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 04:48:29 PM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on January 29, 2009, 01:10:58 AM

I, too, dislike it.

The idea that we have to get permission to use a game we legally purchased? Not cool.

I saw the subservient posts loving Steam but I see it as evidence of more and more creeping invasion of our privacy. Sure it's just silly games but it's tiresome and constant; we're watched by videocameras, required to present ID at the drop of a hat, can't friggin play a game without permission now. The sad part is how nonchalantly people shrug and say it doesn't matter that there's no option.

Hell, they love Big Brother!

Your not asking for permission.  you are activating the game when it is installed.  There is zero difference between this method and entering a code off of some lame ass code wheel from the 80's.  It's just amother form of copy protection, and much simplier, less obtrusive and problem prone that just about any that I can think of.  Also, presenting ID's is for your protection as much as it is for whomever is asking it o f you.  All my CC say ask for ID where a signature is supposed to be.   IMO, those cameras do more good than harm.  A ton of crimes that would have gone un punished are solved by the moron getting caught on tape.  I'm not breaking crimes and could care less if someone sees me picking my nose at a red light.
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 05:32:27 PM »

Quote from: morlac on January 29, 2009, 04:48:29 PM

There is zero difference between this method and entering a code off of some lame ass code wheel from the 80's.  It's just amother form of copy protection, and much simplier, less obtrusive and problem prone that just about any that I can think of.

That's funny, because Steam is by far the most complicated, obstrusive, and problem prone copy protection scheme I've ever used.

And yes, there are numerous differences between Steam and the "lame ass code wheels of the 80's". Differences such as...needing to install and update an annoying program (Steam) with one, and not having to install anything with the other. A pretty clear distinction, I think.
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 05:39:20 PM »

Quote from: baelthazar on January 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM

Retail PC game buying is dead.

Don't be silly.  I buy games on disc, in boxes, from Amazon or Play and I can't see that changing any time soon.  I hate b&m shops too, but avoiding them deprives me of nothing.
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 05:59:40 PM »

I've used Steam since HL2's launch, and never had a problem with it.  It stays quiet and off when I want it to be gone, updates itself automatically, updates each game when I start it up, and provides a networking/friends list/communication service that rivals Xbox Live.  Plus, I can install games whenever I want, without discs, and my account is portable to any PC with Steam installed, allowing me to play Peggle on my lunch break if I want. 

I have zero problem with Steam being used as the copy protection.  Never though it was complicated or obtrusive in any way.
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 07:02:55 PM »

Quote from: heloder on January 29, 2009, 05:32:27 PM

Quote from: morlac on January 29, 2009, 04:48:29 PM

There is zero difference between this method and entering a code off of some lame ass code wheel from the 80's.  It's just amother form of copy protection, and much simplier, less obtrusive and problem prone that just about any that I can think of.
That's funny, because Steam is by far the most complicated, obstrusive, and problem prone copy protection scheme I've ever used.

Huh? I completely disagree. You run it once, it 'activates' the game, and you never have to be online ever again. It also never needs to be checked again either.
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heloder
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 07:44:09 PM »

Close! You...

- Install Steam.
- Update Steam.
- Install game.
- Activate game, which in my experience with HL2 and Ep1 meant sitting there for half an hour or more decrypting and unlocking files.
- Update game (not an option).
- Hope offline mode works (most likely won't).

As opposed to the typical copy protection schemes of the last 15 years or so where you...

- Install game.
- Type in CD-Key (usually).

Now which one is the bigger hassle, again?
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Chaz
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 07:56:33 PM »

Quote from: heloder on January 29, 2009, 07:44:09 PM

Close! You...

- Install Steam.
- Update Steam.
- Install game.
- Activate game, which in my experience with HL2 and Ep1 meant sitting there for half an hour or more decrypting and unlocking files.
- Update game (not an option).
- Hope offline mode works (most likely won't).

As opposed to the typical copy protection schemes of the last 15 years or so where you...

- Install game.
- Type in CD-Key (usually).

Now which one is the bigger hassle, again?

Except that:
-you only have to install Steam once.  By that logic, watching a DVD would consist of: unpack TV.  unpack DVD player.  connect all wires.  change settings on TV.  unwrap DVD.  turn on TV.  turn on DVD player.  insert DVD.  navigate menus.  play movie.  hope power doesn't go out.
-Steam generally stays updated on its own, and updates are generally very quick.
-if you're activating a game on day 1, activation can take a while depending on traffic (but usually isn't bad at all).  At non-peak times, it's a very quick process.
-You should update your games anyway.  With Steam, you don't have to go searching for the correct/latest patch, downloading (from any number of mirrors that may or may not be slow), and then installing.
-I can't speak to offline mode, as I've never used it.

Typical copy protection can also cause problems if, for example, your disc drive can't read the sectors it needs to.  Witness the years worth of bitching about copy protection schemes that have been going on since, well, forever.
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 08:10:12 PM »

Steam generally stays updated on its own if you're always connected to the Internet, and Steam is always in online mode.*

Forcing people on slow connections to download the huge patches for modern games is bullshit (and depending on the connection and the size of said patch, could pretty much render the product unusable from the start).

Let's say hypothetically that Company of Heroes was a Steam game; how long would it take somebody on 56k to update the game before they were able to play it? I have the box version and I was able to play it immediately after installation.
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ydejin
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2009, 08:17:54 PM »

How does Steam's copy protection work?  Do I need to be hooked into the Internet in order to run a game I purchased with Steam?
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2009, 08:25:24 PM »

Quote from: heloder on January 29, 2009, 08:10:12 PM

Steam generally stays updated on its own if you're always connected to the Internet, and Steam is always in online mode.*

Forcing people on slow connections to download the huge patches for modern games is bullshit (and depending on the connection and the size of said patch, could pretty much render the product unusable from the start).

Let's say hypothetically that Company of Heroes was a Steam game; how long would it take somebody on 56k to update the game before they were able to play it? I have the box version and I was able to play it immediately after installation.

Steam (as well as any digital distribution service and much of the internet at this point) is not for people with slow connections.  And the verification that is required is not a large file.  The only games that have had major downloads to deal with if you start with a store copy of a game are Valve games and I'm pretty sure Valve doesn't care about people with slow connections either at this point considering their whole model is based on post-purchase value added content released via Steam.  It almost sounds like you had a bad experience with HL2 (which was a mess) and are assuming nothing has changed since.  You are wrong. 
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« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2009, 08:28:24 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on January 29, 2009, 08:17:54 PM

How does Steam's copy protection work?  Do I need to be hooked into the Internet in order to run a game I purchased with Steam?

It depends, but you do usually need to be connected at least at the time of installation for a verification check.  After that I think it varies by title and publisher whether further checks are required.  However, I had no internet connection for several months a few years back and every single one of Steam games worked the whole time. 
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« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2009, 09:17:28 PM »

Quote from: heloder on January 29, 2009, 08:10:12 PM

Forcing people on slow connections to download the huge patches for modern games is bullshit (and depending on the connection and the size of said patch, could pretty much render the product unusable from the start).
Hence that very easy option of right-clicking on the game in Steam, clicking on Properties and disabling updates. It's literally a faster process than it took me to type that sentence.

Is Steam a bit more of a "hassle" than no copy protection? Yeah, sure. It is a bit more work. But companies demand DRM, so to me, it's much better having a proven DRM scheme which provides me some benefits on its own (the store, the easy management of games on my computer or across other computers, no discs, etc) rather than the alternatives.
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« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2009, 11:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on January 29, 2009, 05:39:20 PM

Quote from: baelthazar on January 29, 2009, 12:12:47 PM

Retail PC game buying is dead.

Don't be silly.  I buy games on disc, in boxes, from Amazon or Play and I can't see that changing any time soon.  I hate b&m shops too, but avoiding them deprives me of nothing.

I should have been more specific. I meant Brick and Motar PC game buying is dead. I still use Amazon (in fact, it was cheaper to pay for shipping than it was to ride the subway down to Manhattan and back to get any games). I usually use Amazon to buy my Wii games as well. But as far as I am concerned, going to a brick and mortar Gamestop has lost its charm.

Bael
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« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2009, 11:35:58 PM »

When I used to work someplace that had a Best Buy and Gamestop within a five minute walk of my office (and another Gamestop on the way home), I'd frequently buy all my games at b&m stores (wouldn't preorder though, heh).  Now that I work at a place that isn't near a store, I buy just about everything online.  Especially when Amazon offers release day delivery, I miss out on nothing.  I wind up saving tax, free shipping (Amazon Prime), and the games are delivered either to my desk at work or to my front door.  Why would I bother buying anything at b&m, short of some crazy clearance sale?
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2009, 01:12:47 AM »

Amazon Prime was certainly worth the extra money. Every penny.

But I have to say, I am now in a foreign country and Steam has made it possible to still get the guys I want when they released (Left4Dead, Sacred 2, Empire:TW, Dawn of War II). You haters need to ponder that!

Bael
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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2009, 07:03:32 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 29, 2009, 09:17:28 PM

Hence that very easy option of right-clicking on the game in Steam, clicking on Properties and disabling updates. It's literally a faster process than it took me to type that sentence.

Nice in theory, except the first time you load Steam up after the game installation, the update automatically starts and you can't stop it or disable updates until its finished. So, not a very useful feature afterall.
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2009, 10:14:38 AM »

Are you running on a dial-up? Updates rarely take over 5 minutes for me. Depends on the update, however. Sacred 2's updates took longer, but the download would have taken just as long.

Bael
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