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Author Topic: Elemental: War of Magic  (Read 41563 times)
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Blackadar
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« Reply #480 on: September 03, 2010, 12:51:39 PM »

And the next post by BW:

Quote from: Brad Wardell
Stop Stop Stop. And I'm not just saying that because it takes like half a minute to load up a page from here.

There is a phrase they use in the movie industry "Kill your darlings".

The person green lighting a production should NEVER EVER be the one working on said production.  Writing AI on GalCiv or helping design the game mechanics on Sins of a Solar Empire kept me at a reasonable distance from the actual GAME. 

The problem with Elemental was that I am in love with it. To me, it's not just a game. It's a whole world that we can expand and build on.  During the months of July and August, when I was working on the game non-stop, I literally had a hard time distinguishing the difference between the GAME, the MODS and the future. It all merged into one fuzzy centrality.

Stardock will be working on Elemental for years to come. Literally. Let me be specific: Stardock will NOT release a new game next year. It'll all be Elemental related.  Releasing it in August wasn't a financial decision. Hell, Stardock's games aren't funded by PC game revenue. I wanted you guys to get the game ASAP.

I think most people would agree that Elemental has tremendous potential. The reason it was released when it was was because we thought it had reached that level ready to be shipped. When you're living, breathing and eating something 24/7, your perspective changes.

From a personal pride point of view, it would be much easier to say "Whohaah, my jet fuel requires Elemental to ship in August!".  To give you guys an idea of how certain I was that the game was ready for everyone to ship, I didn't just give copies to reviewers, I sent copies to my friends who used to be reviewers (long story but the gaming media has changed a lot in the past 18 months) because I was dying for them to see this masterpiece.

Tom Francis's debiliating PC Gamer preview only was possible was because I personally compiled a version for him (of v1.0) for him to see because the v1.0 version doesn't work outside North America (region checking).  In other words, that negative PC Gamer UK preview was only possible because I was so confident in Elemental's readiness that I bypassed Stardock's PR people to get a friend of mine in Europe a copy.

I don't think there should be much disagreement that Stardock absolutely blew it with the launch. Holy cow that should be obvious by now.  In my mind, anything less than "game of the year" (in a year with Starcraft 2 and Civ V in it) means we totally screwed up.

The real question, and the question I think every single person who shelled out $50+ for this game should ask is this: What is Stardock going to do to make me whole?

And the answer, I hope, is in the coming months because, like I said, most of Stardock's revenue doesn't come from making PC games. 

Having my idiocy shown on a global stage is humbling but probably very constructive for PC gamers.  I think most people would agree that Elemental is a fantastic game -- once you get past the idiotic UI decisions, balance, etc. 

We are very fortunate to be in a position to make the situation right. We're our own publisher. We don't have the same financial constraints as other companies so we can spend months or even years if necessary to do right by you guys.

Hopefully, this message will make it up to the forums, (because it was long) but if it does, please take it as it is meant. I failed you. I failed you because I love what we're doing and out of sheer hubris -- that the basic law of programmer != guy who decides if it is done somehow didn't apply to me.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Elemental is getting pasted in reviews and deserves that pasting. I'm glad many people are having fun but our eyes have been opened.  Like I said before, I'll be writing a lot more about this when I get back to an Internet connection that measures bandwidth with an M instead of a K.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/394855/page/4/#2753375
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #481 on: September 03, 2010, 01:26:07 PM »

Poor guy.  I really feel for Brad and his team.
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« Reply #482 on: September 03, 2010, 02:06:44 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 03, 2010, 01:26:07 PM

Poor guy.  I really feel for Brad and his team.

you are one of the good guys, Huw  :-)
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Blackadar
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« Reply #483 on: September 03, 2010, 02:16:41 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 03, 2010, 01:26:07 PM

Poor guy.  I really feel for Brad and his team.

I'm glad that they're going to fix it and I can respect that choice, but I don't feel sorry for them.  This is 100% entirely their fault.  I feel sorrier for those who have purchased the game.
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« Reply #484 on: September 03, 2010, 02:46:03 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 03, 2010, 02:16:41 PM

I feel sorrier for those who have purchased the game.
I know! Those poor people can't even get a refund!

Oh wait, they can. And SD has an excellent track record with patches, and have already shown they are committed to fixing Elemental.

Lots of people are having fun with the game, but yeah it needs some work. Wholly agree that they should have waited another year to release it, but it's really not as dire (or dramatic) as some forum posters want it to be.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #485 on: September 03, 2010, 02:51:38 PM »

Quote from: Lee on September 03, 2010, 02:46:03 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on September 03, 2010, 02:16:41 PM

I feel sorrier for those who have purchased the game.
I know! Those poor people can't even get a refund!

Oh wait, they can. And SD has an excellent track record with patches, and have already shown they are committed to fixing Elemental.

Lots of people are having fun with the game, but yeah it needs some work. Wholly agree that they should have waited another year to release it, but it's really not as dire (or dramatic) as some forum posters want it to be.

Fair point on the refunds.  So I guess we shouldn't feel sorry for anyone.  But if they should have waited another year to release the game, it probably is pretty dire.  slywink
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« Reply #486 on: September 03, 2010, 06:31:09 PM »

I guess I missed it somewhere but can someone explain to me the relationship (or what is distinguishing the difference) between Brad and Stardock?  In his post he says Stardock blew the launch, but he himself felt the game was absolutely ready for release.  But then he's apologizing for the state of the game and saying it wasn't ready for release?  Color me confused  nod
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« Reply #487 on: September 03, 2010, 06:35:08 PM »

Isn't Brad CEO and owner of Stardock? Thus he had last say on when to throw the switch on Elemental.

FWIW, I am enjoying Elemental. The latest patch REALLY improved performance for me dramatically, so now I can enjoy it more fluidly. Sure, the game has some flaws and is lacking some character - I would say it is an 75-80% game - but their September plans seem to indicate that patience will lead to great things.

I feel bad that Brad feels they "messed up" in the way they did. But, I probably wouldn't take a refund, if offered. Elemental is easily as enjoyable as the original Gal Civ on release and even Gal Civ 2.
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« Reply #488 on: September 03, 2010, 06:38:55 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on September 03, 2010, 06:31:09 PM

I guess I missed it somewhere but can someone explain to me the relationship (or what is distinguishing the difference) between Brad and Stardock?  In his post he says Stardock blew the launch, but he himself felt the game was absolutely ready for release.  But then he's apologizing for the state of the game and saying it wasn't ready for release?  Color me confused  nod

That's just Brad (yes he is the CEO), i'm personally confused that the game had this awesome beta where everyone was supposed to be involved and then it appeared people were saying it was being released too early and yet it still got released - this was always going to go wrong. Regardless of how close you are to a game i'm not sure how you can ignore your beta testers in this way - didn't they keep saying their were two versions or something. My other bone of contention is this feels like Demigod all over again - now that wasn't totally under Stardock's control but they said the issues would be fixed and yet they were never fully addressed and sadly trying the game a few weeks ago showed the same issues which existed a few months after release still exist now namely the game is unplayable smile

Now I don't know why I purchased this game, it's really not my style and I was a bit jaded about Stardock anyway so bad calls all the way for me so if this game does turn around and become an enjoyable game for me that will be sweet - but at this point i'm not even sure when I should start trying this game smile
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« Reply #489 on: September 03, 2010, 07:08:45 PM »

Tals - try it now.  Performance/stability-wise there has never been an issue for me (possibly because I'm a lucky nVidia user, possibly because I haven't been in the endgame yet) and v1.07 has apparently markedly improved things in that area too.  As for the rest...well, like I keep saying, I'm having fun at least.  Apparently many people think the game isn't balanced or certain things don't work as they should, but you never know until you give it a go.

If you don't like it, shelve it for a while and see what Stardock come up with.

Raz - thanks! smile
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #490 on: September 04, 2010, 12:12:33 PM »

Glycerine, those are fantastic shots.  Aren't you the guy who also posted all those shots of your sprawling metropolis in Anno 1404?  You like to build cities, huh? smile
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« Reply #491 on: September 04, 2010, 01:29:11 PM »

Latest word from up high:

Quote
It is great to be back to the land of high speed Internet connections.

The team got v1.07 out this week which addresses some of the issues reported by players. There’s a lot more to do of course. Here’s a few notes on what’s on our plate right now:

* Enabling multiplayer. Why isn’t it up now? Because the same problems that would cause a user a problem in single player would happen in MP too except now there are now multiple human beings involved which increases the frustration. I’m going to look at the response to v1.07 this weekend and see where things stand.
* Improving the AI Part 1. There is a little (lot) of confusion on the AI. Minor factions aren’t supposed to build. They’re just there. I think we’ll have to change that to either make it more obvious that they don’t do anything (like change the style of city to be more obvious) or have them behave more like major factions.
* Improving the AI Part 2. I am hoping to be able to get my AI updates into v1.08 (next week) to make the major faction AI substantially more capable. The basic problem with the AI is that a lot of data changes were made very late in development (values for weapons and armor and how much various improvements do) that heavily altered the AI’s evaluation of what was “worth” constructing or how much it needed to protect its sovereign and such. This is the kind of thing that will have to be addressed – for starters.
* Game Mechanic Changes. There are going to be quite a few game mechanic changes based on our own experience and reading on the forums. Keep posting your suggestions.
* Magic System Changes. This is an area that’s going to get a lot of changes. For instance, Essence will become a boolean (true or false). Your mana will come from a global pool of mana that is from the shards. The elemental spell books (earth, air, fire, water) will get moved out of character creation and into the tech tree so that players can determine what spell books they want. Various spells will gain a mana “maint” rather than using “enchantment slots”. This all brings us to the next part
* General UI. There are some outstanding posts on the forums with suggestions about the UI that we’re looking at. But generally speaking, we want to eliminate a lot of what I’d say (with the benefit of hindsight) gratuitous complexity (enchantment slots, tile limitations on cities, obscured game mechanics, etc.). We’ll get very specific with the community as we start to put these in.
* Performance, Compatibility, Memory. These three things remain the most troubling and frankly, heart breaking issues. On a personal note, nothing pains us more than when someone accuses us of “rushing” the game. The phrase “works on my machine” is not an acceptable excuse. We just blew it on so many levels that it will require a detailed post-mortem (which I do plan to provide so players, customers, and others can learn from our mistakes in general and my personal mistakes in particular). When I read the check-in logs, I wince at how specific each “crash” is (“Crash caused by user having 8X AGP card in 4X AGP motherboard with soft lighting turned off when in the unit design window”). There’s a reason most games license their engines (Civilization and Fallout 3 use Gambryo for instance, other games use Unreal, and so on). We use our own home grown one “Kumquat” which is proving to have serious teething issues that we are most definitely suffering the consequences for.

There’s a ton more to add here but these are a few of the things on our mind. It’s been, as you can imagine, a horrible horrible couple of weeks. We’re doing out best to make sure Elemental lives up to its potential which brings me to the final part.

Elemental’s original release schedule was to have the first release (War of Magic – Book 1: Relias) and 2 expansion packs (Book 2: Cerena and Book 3: Magesta).

What we’re going to do is that for users who own the game by a certain date will get (at least) the first expansion pack for free as a token of our appreciation for hanging in there with us. As some long-time Stardock gamers can tell you, our expansion packs aren’t minor things.


I'm not sure the changes to the magic system are for the better. Sounds like you have to research one of the books and be harvesting shards before you can cast any spells. Might make the early game pretty dull for people who like to hurl fireballs around.

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Razgon
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« Reply #492 on: September 04, 2010, 03:34:11 PM »

Yeah, the new magic spellbook system doenst sound very fun...but he said he'd detail it in a post later this week. I'd not rather dumb down the sovereign creation too much.
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« Reply #493 on: September 04, 2010, 04:00:10 PM »

What needs to be fixed isn't the mechanic for learning and casting spells.  That's fine as it is.  But the spells need to be made more interesting, redundant spells have to be eliminated (how many Fire or Earth spells that do rnd(Int) to one character do you need?), and a way to increase mana regeneration has to be introduced earlier.  As it is, the building that does it requires a Lev. 5 city, which means you're several hundred turns in before you can build it.
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« Reply #494 on: September 04, 2010, 04:27:33 PM »

I agree completely - I dont understand why they dont take a look at MoM's spells - they are a brilliant example of how to do things.

I think many of the issues also comes from the fact that each unit lacks uniqueness. There arent really any special things they can do (other than do either aoe attack or direct damage via some spell). They really need some traits of some sort.

What I mean is, its all a very very basic system that is in place right now.
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« Reply #495 on: September 04, 2010, 05:27:52 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on September 04, 2010, 04:27:33 PM

I agree completely - I dont understand why they dont take a look at MoM's spells - they are a brilliant example of how to do things.

I think many of the issues also comes from the fact that each unit lacks uniqueness. There arent really any special things they can do (other than do either aoe attack or direct damage via some spell). They really need some traits of some sort.

What I mean is, its all a very very basic system that is in place right now.


I think Brad is motivated by a desire to ensure the AI can make full and intelligent use out of all the gameplay systems, including spells.  When you have a bunch of direct-damage spells that are only differentiated by which type of shard is used to boost their effect, choosing which one to use is a simple -- and dull -- mathematical calculation.

By comparison, choosing whether to cross a water barrier by

1) summoning an expensive floating island to carry everyone over,

2) taking time to cast Water Walking on each unit in the stack,

3) raising a land bridge that enemies might use in the future,

4) using a teleportation spell with a chance to injure units during transit,

5) building a traditional ship, or

6) deciding not to cross at all and focus your efforts elsewhere,

...those decisions are much more interesting because they have distinct pros and cons, but there are so many variables that it's exponentially harder to teach the AI how to make a smart decision.  Brad wrote blog posts earlier in the development citing this specific logistical problem as the reason why Elemental's world would only have a couple different map types.  I suspect it's also why we never saw nebulae, singularities, or stable wormholes in Galactic Civilizations II.

In other words, Brad is an AI programmer who starts by designing a game a computer can understand how to play, and then adds an interface for people.  That isn't necessarily a criticism -- I think GalCiv2 is a phenomenal game! -- but it does explain why we get technologies like "Laser 1 / 2 / 3" and spells like "Fire / Wind / Earth Blast."

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #496 on: September 04, 2010, 05:32:41 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on September 04, 2010, 04:27:33 PM

I agree completely - I dont understand why they dont take a look at MoM's spells - they are a brilliant example of how to do things.

Or Dominions 3. A lot of those are summons, but there are lots of world spells and element-specific spells that would add to variety. I'm sure there are a few that would not require the AI to overthink.

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« Reply #497 on: September 04, 2010, 07:33:52 PM »

If Wardell honestly thought the game was ready for release then the dude needs some serious help...like a VP of quality assurance who has no connection to the game but to determine wether its ready and it doesn't get released until then. Brad can apologize all he wants and talk about the future support but this game has left a really bad stain on the name of Stardock. Demigod wasn't ready for its release either. Stardock needs to take a good look at how it makes games.
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« Reply #498 on: September 04, 2010, 08:24:03 PM »

Stardock didn't develop Demigod - GPG did.  And I thought the problems at release had to do with stores breaking street date before the servers were ready, not that the game itself was broken.
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« Reply #499 on: September 04, 2010, 09:25:03 PM »

not sure if this was posted yet (can't tell if the timestamp is different on it because I'm not logged into the board I'm linkng too) but it looks like things are going well over at Stardock.  At least they're saying no one is being fired.
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #500 on: September 04, 2010, 11:06:19 PM »

That's your idea of things going well?  icon_confused
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Razgon
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« Reply #501 on: September 04, 2010, 11:08:58 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 04, 2010, 09:25:03 PM

not sure if this was posted yet (can't tell if the timestamp is different on it because I'm not logged into the board I'm linkng too) but it looks like things are going well over at Stardock.  At least they're saying no one is being fired.

I think you are reading that wrong, Ceekay... Its not going fine, and people are being laid off.
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« Reply #502 on: September 04, 2010, 11:35:35 PM »

Quote from: tgb on September 04, 2010, 08:24:03 PM

Stardock didn't develop Demigod - GPG did.  And I thought the problems at release had to do with stores breaking street date before the servers were ready, not that the game itself was broken.

Stardock was the publisher so they had the ability to hold it back. That game is still on them too. No its not server problems its a horribly unfinshed game thats had like 6 patches already. Its a mess.
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« Reply #503 on: September 05, 2010, 08:04:51 AM »

Quote from: Jumangi on September 04, 2010, 11:35:35 PM

Quote from: tgb on September 04, 2010, 08:24:03 PM

Stardock didn't develop Demigod - GPG did.  And I thought the problems at release had to do with stores breaking street date before the servers were ready, not that the game itself was broken.

Stardock was the publisher so they had the ability to hold it back. That game is still on them too. No its not server problems its a horribly unfinshed game thats had like 6 patches already. Its a mess.

Outside of the netcode I didn't experience any other issues that caused me concern and I played that game a lot. The netcode was the killer though - that said League of Legends is an immeasurably better game so it did me a favour in that respect smile
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« Reply #504 on: September 05, 2010, 06:44:22 PM »

A couple of interesting links (taken from QT3's continuing discussion of the release):

http://scarsofwargame.com/DevBlog/?p=1452

What stands out to me in this, as highlighted by the blog, is Brad's 7/31 comments about a bunch of things being broken that still weren't fixed by release.  It suggests a greater awareness of some core issues then he is now admitting.  The only way to reconcile those statements would be to assume that Brad was absolutely convinced that the last minute post-beta changes were going to significantly improve the game.

http://www.viridiangames.com/blog/about-elemental

This guy supposedly works for/has ties with Stardock.  Basically, he says they knew the game wasn't done but had to release when they did because the external (i.e. non game related) consequences of a delay until February would have been more significant then the consequences they believed they would face for releasing early.
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« Reply #505 on: September 05, 2010, 06:57:17 PM »

Why aren't I finding any frigging shards?!  I finally have a good game going, have about five cities and some good armies, and there's not a shard to be found!  I've always found shards in previous games that I've been kinda forced to give up on early.  Typical.  v1.07 by the way.
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« Reply #506 on: September 06, 2010, 12:49:59 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on September 05, 2010, 06:44:22 PM

A couple of interesting links (taken from QT3's continuing discussion of the release):

http://scarsofwargame.com/DevBlog/?p=1452

What stands out to me in this, as highlighted by the blog, is Brad's 7/31 comments about a bunch of things being broken that still weren't fixed by release.  It suggests a greater awareness of some core issues then he is now admitting.  The only way to reconcile those statements would be to assume that Brad was absolutely convinced that the last minute post-beta changes were going to significantly improve the game.

http://www.viridiangames.com/blog/about-elemental

This guy supposedly works for/has ties with Stardock.  Basically, he says they knew the game wasn't done but had to release when they did because the external (i.e. non game related) consequences of a delay until February would have been more significant then the consequences they believed they would face for releasing early.

Yeah, there's no way to sugar coat it. Brad's posts about essentially being blindsided is entirely contradicted from the July post where it's obvious he knew of many of the issues. It's really impossible not to conclude that he outright lied in some of his post-release posts on his forums. At this point, who can believe anything he says?  Nice way to publicly shred your own integrity, BW. 
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« Reply #507 on: September 06, 2010, 06:04:13 AM »

Ya this is getting laughably bad. Now he's posting a giant FAQ where he claims Elemental is by far the best game they've ever done.

This whole thing is going to be a textbook example down the road. I'm not sure if its going to be able gaming or PR practices  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #508 on: September 06, 2010, 07:49:56 AM »

I'm (finally) about 300 turns into a medium map and I haven't experienced any of the slowness or stability issues that have been affecting other people's end games, so hopefully 1.07 has fixed a lot of it.  1.08 is due this week too.

I've been stomping my closest major neighbour, and after conquering some of his cities my food has gone into the negative.  I'm something like -2 for food right now.  Are there any consequences to that, or does it just mean I have to find a load more food before I can grow my cities any further?

Still haven't seen any shards by the way!
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« Reply #509 on: September 06, 2010, 09:07:12 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 06, 2010, 07:49:56 AM

I'm (finally) about 300 turns into a medium map and I haven't experienced any of the slowness or stability issues that have been affecting other people's end games, so hopefully 1.07 has fixed a lot of it.  1.08 is due this week too.

I've been stomping my closest major neighbour, and after conquering some of his cities my food has gone into the negative.  I'm something like -2 for food right now.  Are there any consequences to that, or does it just mean I have to find a load more food before I can grow my cities any further?

Still haven't seen any shards by the way!

Same here, performance wise it's significantly improved.  I loaded my previous 300+ turn game, and it's literally like night and day.

I've started a new game as Capitar, normal difficulty, on a large map.  I'm about 60+ turns in and have already found 2, one of which was close enough to grab with my second city.  I've met two of the AIs so far.  One of them founded his to far away from fertile land, so consequently he's stuck.  Not sure if he's one of these "minor factions" I am hearing about, how exactly can you tell?  The game is going pretty good for me so far, with 3 cities and a fourth coming soon.  I've managed to find several nice resources, but I have noticed they aren't all over the place as in some past games.  I've also noticed the goodie huts have been toned way down, which is again is much better as about every map was packed full of crap.

Oh and yep, I'm the one who posted those Dawn of Discovery screenshots.  I've gotten to the point now where I take pictures of everything I play.
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« Reply #510 on: September 06, 2010, 09:51:57 PM »

I keep meaning to take pics of my current game but I keep forgetting.  The minor factions never rise above level 1 as far as I've seen, so they always have the 9-square zone.  Also they don't show up in your diplomacy screen.

I did finally find an earth shard, which is no use to me at all since my custom sovereign only has the fire spellbook.  It's bloody stupid that the pre-made sovereigns have all the spellbooks and other traits, which at this point is impossible with a roll-your-own.  Way to discourage customising your game.  icon_neutral

Just before I stopped playing this evening I had a go at designing a unit with my available tech.  A squad of leather-armoured, broadsword-wielding brutes on horseback.  Unbelievable stats, they could smash anything I've seen so far.  However they take 28 turns to train (I don't have any of the buildings that hasten training) and cost almost 500 gildar!  They also cost a shitload of materials and metal, but I'm churning that stuff out like there's no tomorrow.

It's absolutely worthwhile having kids.  Three of my daughters have grown up and their starting attributes were fantastic.  After arming them to the teeth and leveling them up a bit they're excellent generals for my armies.  They're pretty useless for melee in the mid-late game of course, but the ability to use magic more than makes up for it.

I almost feel like I should be apologising for this, but I'm still really enjoying the game!  Even in its current state I can see myself playing for a long time, and the game's only going to improve.  It's cool that those of us who have bought the game will get the first expansion for free.  Considering I am happy with the game I almost feel like I should pay money for it anyway!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 10:01:02 PM by Huw the Poo » Logged

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« Reply #511 on: September 07, 2010, 12:21:43 AM »

I think I smell a early price drop...     icon_twisted
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« Reply #512 on: September 07, 2010, 09:01:42 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 06, 2010, 09:51:57 PM

I did finally find an earth shard, which is no use to me at all since my custom sovereign only has the fire spellbook.  It's bloody stupid that the pre-made sovereigns have all the spellbooks and other traits, which at this point is impossible with a roll-your-own.  Way to discourage customising your game.  icon_neutral

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you missed that you can create a sov with all four spellbooks to start.  It just costs points that you might want to use on something else.
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« Reply #513 on: September 07, 2010, 09:10:06 AM »

I think he means that your costummade sovereigns are weaker than the premade, i.e. you cant make them as powerfull with the points allocated currently.
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« Reply #514 on: September 07, 2010, 09:34:54 AM »

Yeah, that's it - pre-made sovs have had more points allocated than your own can have.
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« Reply #515 on: September 08, 2010, 07:21:58 PM »

Three Moves Ahead covers Elemental.  Brad is there.  http://flashofsteel.com/
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« Reply #516 on: September 08, 2010, 09:55:35 PM »

Thanks for the link, that was a good podcast.  I'm as firmly in Stardock's camp as ever.  Yeah they fucked up, but they're clearly devoted 100% to making it right and are extremely regretful about the whole issue.  I really like Elemental just as it is, and I'm totally confident that I will love Elemental when they add some stuff and fix some stuff.  It already runs smooth as a baby's arse on my PC and I've never had a single CTD.  I enjoyed listening to Brad put to bed some of the more wild speculation that's been going around, too.

Stardock remain one of my favourite developers.
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« Reply #517 on: September 10, 2010, 05:55:16 PM »

I need a new game today. How hard is it to learn Elemental?
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« Reply #518 on: September 10, 2010, 06:08:07 PM »

Quote from: Greg Wak on September 10, 2010, 05:55:16 PM

I need a new game today. How hard is it to learn Elemental?

Heh.  Now there's a question!  If you have any experience with 4X TBS games, you will feel right at home.  However, the game is currently suffering from a lack of documentation and feedback, and what info is in the game can be difficult to find.  It's frustrating and makes Elemental more difficult to pick up and play than it should be.

Having said that, I think it's an enjoyable game.  It needs some work, especially with regard to balance and AI, but I'm having fun with it nonetheless, and it's reportedly a lot more stable now than it was at launch (I've never had any problems there).  Unfortunately there's no demo yet, so the best advice I can give is if you like Civ, and fancy a fantasy spin on it with added RPG elements, it's definitely a game for you.  But I'd be irresponsible if I didn't point out that many people think the game is "unplayable" at the moment (hyperbole in my opinion; needs some work but not even remotely unplayable).
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« Reply #519 on: September 10, 2010, 07:56:31 PM »

Its not unplayable, but the systems implemented to handle both magic(Many spells still dont work or does not do what they claim) and tactical combat, and quick combat as well, are horribly broken and make little or no sense. Brad (lead designer and owner of stardock) has admitted to the faults, so its not just people making a clamor over nothing.

Stardock has said they will redo all of those completely but who knows if the end result is better?

Some do seem to enjoy the game as it is though, but I'd hold off for a demo instead of springing 50 dollars on a game the developers themselves admitted isnt working that well.

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