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Author Topic: Elemental: War of Magic  (Read 44551 times)
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Island Dog
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« on: November 04, 2008, 02:55:49 PM »

The long awaited announcement for Elemental is finally here!

GameSpy gives a preview of the upcoming turn-based strategy game from Stardock.

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The game's basic premise is that the world of Elemental is recovering from a devastating apocalypse resulting from a war between magic-wielding gods who were wiped out in their final battle. A few centuries later, the all-but-lifeless and magically dead planet has started to recover. This process is accelerated when a few people -- called "channelers" -- find they can still access these ancient magical forces via magical crystal fragments that were spread across the world during the apocalypse. Naturally some of these channelers wish to help the world recover and rebuild civilizations. Others have motivation that aren't quite so benevolent, setting the stage for a conflict.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/elemental-war-of-magic/926527p1.html#

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JohnathanStrange
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »

Finally some good news on the Magic Front!!
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 04:55:21 PM »

3...2...1.. cue personal attack due to redundant thread ;-)
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 05:33:32 PM »

If my computer can run this, I'll be in. I might even pre-order, which is something I almost never do.
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Island Dog
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 06:22:57 PM »

Official announcement is also up.  smile

http://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1135
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Jag
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 06:48:12 PM »

2010!?! That is just evil  icon_evil
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Razgon
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 06:51:38 PM »

aand, its pre-ordered!! gods, I cant wait! :-D
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 08:31:55 PM »

I'm in.  Never played MoM but I know the basic idea.  I've been waiting for any game to do this kind of thing for a long time now.  With the Total War series unwilling to do anything fantasy or scifi related this will fill that need.

I like the idea of your powerful character being the main resource that you distribute, siphoning off energy into the land, your generals, etc...

However, after the bad experience with SotSE's diplomacy, I do hope they really work on the diplomacy system for this game.
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Razgon
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 10:21:23 AM »

For those interested, there are already a lot of interesting threads and info about the game over at the offical forums, that you can find here:

http://forums.elementalgame.com/
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 04:02:15 PM »

Here's more stuff!  Woot!

Edge Online Preview

and

gamasutra small article
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Razgon
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 07:51:27 AM »

So, latest newsbit is, that Elemental will use Spore's "world persistence" model, meaning, anything a user creates and uploads, will go to every players game if you so choose.

Once more, I'll be sure to add only you guys, since I dont want to lug around 10 penis'es of godhood +10 damage....
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2008, 03:46:15 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 06, 2008, 07:51:27 AM

So, latest newsbit is, that Elemental will use Spore's "world persistence" model, meaning, anything a user creates and uploads, will go to every players game if you so choose.

Once more, I'll be sure to add only you guys, since I dont want to lug around 10 penis'es of godhood +10 damage....

Oooooh, now THIS sounds even MORE awesome! Pretty sure I'll be in on this game on day one. icon_biggrin
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Razgon
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2008, 03:34:15 PM »

so, Brad Wardell has given us a lot more tidbits about the new not-Master-of-Magic game.... I'm sure a lot of you will be interested in its copy protection as well, given the recent debate on this... I'll quoute that part first..

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Most important question: what version of SecuROM will be used?

It's using a combination of SecuROM and Starforce so that the game will require a CD in the drive, a USB key to be inserted and the reading of a particular word on a particular page of the user manual (which won't be hard since it'll only have a 2 page manual naturally).

The docs, which we expect to be written by fans, will be online only which will be fine since the game will require players to be on-line at all times due to the by-the-hour activation checks the game makes to the single player mode.

Also, the game won't work if you have any CD-ROM burning software including the built in media player software (users will naturally need to uninstall any media players including iTunes in order to play).

All of this will be integrated into the game by our eastern-european CD manufacturer (the copy we send there will be completely clean of course) so we're confident that no pirates will get it...

ahem..










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(incidentally, this Q and A was a joke)
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Razgon
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2008, 03:36:36 PM »

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From around the net I've gotten a lot of questions regarding Elemental. Here are some of the questions and answers that have come up:

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I understand if some stuff is being kept internal, but here are the things Im wondering about:

1. Are there non-military victory conditions?

2. Does the game include a campaign? If so do you think the story of the campaign will attract gamers?

3. How are you addressing the steamroller issue of TBS games (ie: spending the first half of the game building a massive army and the last half rolling it over all opponents as a repeatable strategy to every game)?

1. Yes. Most of the victory conditions are non-military. Some of the previews may cover this so I won't say anything until after the previews hit.

2. Yes. I think the story is compelling but I'm highly biased.

3. The mechanics in Elemental are a bit different than the typical 4X game because even in terms of warfare, there are very different paths. For instance, Player A may have a huge army ready to steamroll but Player B may have an incredibly powerful sovereign who can wipe out vast armies and Player C may have built up an incredible well of mana that can be used to decimate vast swaths of the world and all three of these things could come together at once based on which path players take and of course all 3 could lose to Player D who wins through the quest victory condition if they're not careful.
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Can we build walls? Us turtelers need to know. 
 

Yes. One of the key game mechanics of Elemental is how cities are built. In Elemental, when a city grows, it gains a new tile which can be placed where the player wants it to go (as long as it's adjacent to an existing tile). So cities are a multi-tile affair in the game. Now, how you choose to build up your city heavily determines how defensible or productive, or rich it is. Cities are only conquered when the keep tile is taken which could be in the utter center of the city or could be at the end of a peninsula.


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It will always be Not Master of Magic for me 

I have some questions, if there is something that can be answered at this moment, thanks in advance.

How many single players modes it will have? You mention at the webpage a campaign telling the story of Elemental, but will you offer non story driven campaign too? 

There will be single-player skirmishes ala GalCiv or Civ4.

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What are the objectives for the creation part? how many aspects will be able to be manipulated? will it be part of the game or you have to work on that on a separated editor (one of the many things I loved from MoM was the ability to forge items that were mine, created by me as part of my campaign and war effort). 
There will be pre-made maps and randomly generated maps in which players can insert a large number of variables in deciding what kind of world they want.

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I guess it will have random maps, what is the target for sizes? 

From tiny to ridiculously large. We are also making a 64-bit native edition to support even larger worlds.

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What type of feedback are you looking for the beta process? 

Everything. The beta process starts about 9 months before release so that beta testers can seriously mold the game.

On a personal note, for me the beta process is the whole point of making the game as that's what helped get me into game development in the first place.

I was one of those Usenet guys on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic hanging out talking about games and picked up Teach yourself C in 21 days to start writing (this is obviously a long time ago now). So hanging out with other gamers to tweak and add to the game is the best part.


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Any extra payment for the MMO part? what is the general idea of this? 

No. It's not really an MMO part as much as Impulse hosting the game on the cloud to make it much easier for people to interact with their "world" with their friends.


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How will you organize the generated content and make it work as part of a balanced strategy experience? What limits can we expect from the creation side? 

What users submit we moderate and categorize. Players can then choose what kinds of user created content they want to make use of.

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The "Pollination" works like Spore?, where I start a single player campaign and I don't know exactly what I'm going to find? 
It's somewhat different than Spore. The idea is that the worlds you get will slowly evolve based on what players make. New races, new types of buildings, new technologies, new spells, new units, etc. will alowly find their way into the game if users choose to the option to allow user submitted content.

The moderation will categorize it and rate it on quality and then users can choose what kinds of content (and of what quality threshold) they want. We do this to a large degree today with WindowBlinds and our other non-game stuff.


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What about diplomacy? will you try to improve the achivements of GalCiv on that? Will you be able to be influential to other civilizations, develop trade routes or work in resources? 

We plan to overhaul the diplomacy engine we had in GalCiv so that there's a lot more options in Elemental. The beta testers will have a lot of influence on this part.


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What type of players are you looking the most for the beta process? 4x experienced players? people who played MoM and AoW:SW? What is the type of things you need more intensive testing? 

People who would buy this type of game.

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Brad - will there be any way to quick-resolve combat? Playing out tactical combat is fun when the sides are at all matched, but it's just a drag on my patience when you're going to steamroll the other side or whatever. And sometimes you just want to get combat over with because you're focusing on the bigger picture or a "technology win" or something.

Totally. There's instant-resolve (i.e. two armies meet, one dies), there's auto-resolve where the game zooms in and shows a tactical battle but it's all handled by the AI (ala GalCiv II fleet battles) and then there's full tactical battles where both sides play.

One thing I should mention about the tactical battles that isn't clear in the screenshots is that they're continuous turns. They're not like HOMM. The player tells where they want their units and uses the space bar to pause the action to give new directions. That way, we can get much more interesting battles.

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What's your combat system going to be built around? Master of Magic-style tactical combat, or Civilization-style randomized abstraction? Or will both be options?

It's tactical but it can be made to play like Civ if you have instant-resolve enabled.

I will likely play with auto-resolve as I'm not a huge fan of playing out tactical battles but I enjoy seeing the carnage.

If anyone has ever seen Fellowship of the Ring where Sauron is whacking out tons of elves and men around, that's the look we're going for.

Though, in Elemental, the creatures are much more powerful than a lone Maiar up agonst a bunch of punks. Dragons in Elemental are incredibly powerful and each of the channelers are equivalent (by late game) to Valar. Enough Tolkien geedkom. 

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The few available screenshots look great. Hopefully we'll get a look at the spells soon. 

The spells are going to be intentionally de-balancing in late game. I.e. by late game, you'll be able to do Populous level damage to the world. A lot of the reason we had to create a new engine was because we needed one where the world could be truly wrecked.

 

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64-bit native edition?

Exactly how large a world are we talking here, Brad?
 

Yea, certainly most people will be playing it 32-bit but the 64-bit version lets us have much larger maps because we aren't fighting with the 2 gig limit of 32-bit.

We've had a number of years to think about the game mechanics and learn from GalCiv. What we want is a game where the "winner" isn't decided early on with the rest being just mopping up.

The key to that is to have distinct paths to victory that are truly unique (far more so than in GalCiv) that are action-driven (and by action I mean the player is doing "stuff" on the map and not just making treaties or whatever).

By doing that, you can then open the way to have extremely large maps in which players are viable for a long period of time with different paths to victory.
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Razgon
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 03:37:12 PM »

Source: http://forums.elementalgame.com/329219

to me, this is an MoM fans wet dreams come true!!
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2008, 10:31:27 PM »

If a creative and industrious gamer uploaded some well-thought out and fascinating units complete with background stories and compelling myth and we "accidentally" encounter such things from time to time? Cool!
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2008, 04:11:06 AM »

Er, Raz, could you put this in the main Elemental thread?  No point in breaking it up even though it's good new info.
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2008, 09:32:51 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on November 08, 2008, 04:11:06 AM

Er, Raz, could you put this in the main Elemental thread?  No point in breaking it up even though it's good new info.

your right - will do :-)

edit: ah - someone merged them,. thanks :-)
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 01:37:28 PM »

Brad has posted some economy-related stuff if you guys are interested in reading it.

Personally, I think it sounds incredibly awesome. 

It's in the Journal Section
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2008, 12:53:40 AM »

Another preview for those of you not opposed to Gamespot.
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 08:59:24 AM »

heh, glad to see someone else is as excited as I am about this upcoming game! :-)

I know the release date is a bit far off, but the beta starts in June, and I suspect a lot of us here will join in it
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Island Dog
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2008, 09:03:51 PM »

Elemental teaser video.  smile

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/elementalwarofmagic/video/6200899

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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 09:43:48 PM »

Well I can't say that video was very interesting unfortunately.  Did you guys create a new written language for the world?  If so, is it basically all the symbols of the alphabet replaced by a new character, or is it a bit more indepth than that?
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 09:54:13 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 13, 2008, 09:43:48 PM

Well I can't say that video was very interesting unfortunately.  Did you guys create a new written language for the world?  If so, is it basically all the symbols of the alphabet replaced by a new character, or is it a bit more indepth than that?

You know, I really don't know the answer to that, but I will ask about it.  smile
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2008, 11:19:50 AM »

Interesting new tidbit:

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Unlimited expansion by us and the players
By Frogboy Posted November 28, 2008 12:28:45
Some of the concepts we're talking about will be hard to envision without actually having the game but one of the real innovations we're trying to introduce with Elemental is the concept of unlimited expansion.

The key to this is not hard coding civilization capabilities but rather leaving them open-ended.

So let me start at the beginning:

When someone first gets into Elemental, the relationships will be simple between things. A player who wants to design a horse mounted knight will need to have researched animal husbandry which lets them train horses. They will need to have a city that has used one of its tiles to make use of a herd of wild horses on the map. They will need a mine on a metal deposit to create the armor.  And once they have all those things, it'll be a matter of training and equipping the knight.

The above example is one of the more complicated relationships one will see initially in Elemental...

But what about users who want to keep making more and more sophisticated relationships?

Maybe I want to have knights equipped with sunfire dread chain mail riding tamed Demon steeds and the knights have a secondary power of carrying tomes of unmaking which vastly increase their damage in battle?

Well, there would be a host of technologies one would have to have researched. There would have to be spells researched as well and new city buildings that produce these tomes and then have been enchanted to make these tomes magical. The demon steeds would require various technologies and the finding of demons to be tamed in the first place and so on and so on.

How do you control the level of sophistication here so that it doesn't become too complicated?  The answer is with a new series of game options that are practically games unto themselves.

Because, did I mention, that all the things mentioned in the second example were things produced not by us but by players and broadcast to all other players so that you have access to them automatically? No expansion packs needed. No paying for mini-content needed. It's just thousands of players creating cool stuff and broadcasting it to one another.

So here's how players control it.  They have a screen called the Bestiary where they can control what types of creatures are in game. When someone broadcasts content, Stardock moderators rate and define it more closely. From this screen, players can decide what types of creatures they want, the quality of the submission desired (we will rate the broadcasts in terms of production values as well), etc. These creatures will have associated technologies that are attached to them that are required.

There will be additional screens for managing resources, techs, etc.

So for most players, they will probably stick with what we include or maybe a handful of expansions that Stardock provides. Others will insert some content made by other players. And still others will go for a truly huge scope experience.  But the point is that players control this.

Now someone might say that a lot of this sounds too ambitious. But Stardock already does a lot of this, today, right now, on WinCustomize.com with its non-game stuff. 

Now what is the gameplay result of this? One of the cooler things that will result is that the units that players make use of will really be different from game to game. And there will be a real pay off in the battles for players who have managed to assemble the necessary components to create some of the truly sophisticated units.

In multiplayer, the default it going to be the least common denominator settings. We will probably have other options but we won't know until we've had a chance to play it online with you guys to see what other settings are the most fun.

again, Spore has to get some credit for this way of thinking, and, its potential is incredibly,but again,I dont want an army of penisswingers, so, moderation, and the ability to choose is pretty darn cool!
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2008, 12:38:14 PM »

On a somewhat related note, this was something I envisioned people doing with GalCiv 2 when the editors were released.  If someone were ambitious enough, they could (completely by themselves) truly create a race.  And I don't just mean through the create-a-race ability in the game when you start up.  I mean they could design the entire technology tree, units (starships), and behavior of the race.  Upload the file to Stardock Central (or whatever it's called now), and voila, you have the Protoss Race ready to play as or against.  It would take A LOT of work though, if they wanted all the detail in there.  Designing every ship and every tech would take serious time.

What Brad is proposing here seems much easier to do because it's essentially just a unit creator, unless I'm reading it wrong.  The beauty is how easy they plan on making it for users to "upload" the creations into their games.

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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2008, 03:01:55 PM »

If this were anyone other than Stardock, I'd be far more skeptical. But I have yet to see them fail to deliver on promises in their recent games.
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Island Dog
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2009, 02:39:00 PM »

This week at GDC, Brad Wardell showed off a new video of Elemental.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEivhSnTbEI

smile
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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2009, 02:48:24 PM »

Quote from: Island Dog on March 25, 2009, 02:39:00 PM

This week at GDC, Brad Wardell showed off a new video of Elemental.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEivhSnTbEI

smile


saw it, and loved it! Now, the last tidbit he says in the video... "Beta will arrive this spring" - well, the weather is fine and VERY springlike here, so...GIEF BETAZ PLZ! ;-)
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2009, 02:52:45 PM »

I LOVE that art style especially for the zoomed-out map, and can't wait to see more. This may potentially be my favorite Stardock game yet. smile
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« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2009, 04:53:33 PM »

The game looks really good. Wasn't there a discount for pre-ordering before the beta started?
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« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2009, 04:55:50 PM »

 icon_frown     Due to be released in a year. At least I have another game to look forward to.
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« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2009, 09:33:40 PM »

I...can't...wait...for this!
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2009, 04:52:30 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on March 25, 2009, 02:52:45 PM

I LOVE that art style especially for the zoomed-out map, and can't wait to see more. This may potentially be my favorite Stardock game yet. smile

I have to agree.  When I first saw the art for it I didn't realize it was the actualy in-game art.  It really does look that great.  smile
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2009, 05:20:33 PM »

This game is going to rock like the first time I played Gal Civ and Gal Civ 2. I'm even thinking it might rock like the first time I played Master of Magic.

Bael
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2009, 06:35:59 PM »

I don't want to get myself too excited since it seems like such a long time til release.  MoM is/was one of my all time favorite games and this seems like it will be as good or better.  Of course I already pre-ordered hoping to get some beta action.
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2009, 09:08:54 PM »

I wouldn't say I'm too excited (I reserve that for Jumpgate Evolution, sadly), but I'm certainly impatient to get my hands on this one!
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2009, 10:16:25 PM »

I can barely remember Master of Magic except for 'membering that I liked it. That's it. I'd say that except for disappointing a tiny but vocal number of fans who actually played and still recall the game well enough, I'd say they're going to make a lot of newcomers happy.
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« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2009, 06:09:28 PM »

So any word on when the first phase of beta will be starting?  I keep checking Impulse for prerelease versions... I really would love to start delving into this title.
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« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2009, 07:13:39 PM »

I recall not caring for the original art shots, but that video looked great.
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