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Author Topic: EA: Single Player games Are Finished  (Read 1341 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: December 09, 2010, 07:57:59 AM »

apparently every game needs MP now

I love this quote:

Quote
Yes but, how would you respond if Visceral told you that Dead Space isn’t the type of game that should have multiplayer? It sounds like EA insists on some game elements, and I am wondering how that affects dev autonomy.
(PR manager: It’s more about educating the developers. Not on the creative side, but on the way people play games. Social media has really changed the way consumers look at entertainment. Everything’s more interconnected and 24-7 these days.)

so if the devs insist on a SP only experience they get sent to re-education camps? icon_lol
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:59:30 AM by CeeKay » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 01:15:59 PM »

Quote
EA is "very comfortable moving the discussion towards how we make connected gameplay – be it co-operative or multiplayer or online services – as opposed to fire-and-forget, packaged goods only, single-player, 25-hours-and you're out." He added, "I think that model is finished."

A 25 hour game with state of the art graphics, a solid cohesive narrative and quality gameplay?!? IN!  

I think the last one of those I played was Dragon Age - A YEAR AGO!
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 01:28:33 PM »

I have played allot of mmorpgs and various multiplayer games...

They are fun.  But...

There is something to be said for stopping when I want to stop.  Pausing a game and going and doing something else, etc..

I like single player.  
Or at least, if its multiplayer, like Black ops..   I do not have to talk to anyone, commit to being online at anytime, can mute others...  

Its the only "multi" I played this year.

Single player?  From Dragon age, GOW1, gow2, gow3, falloutnew vegas, bauldurs gate, witcher, TOEE, icewind dale, civilization 4, civilization 5, red dead redemption, grand theft auto, infamous..  
A bunch, bunch more.  But I am too lazy to type anymore.   Dont make me toss in the android and ipad games lol..

Single player is far from over.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 02:19:05 PM by Morgul » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 01:31:58 PM »

While it's sad to think that EA will actually be pushing for MP in every game, as opposed to letting developers decide if they want it or not, I don't think they are completely wrong in their thinking.

With money tight, I have to make sure that my purchases have enough value to make it worth the cost. MP adds value. Without MP, I never would have played any of the COD games (I've purchased every single one since MW1). And without co-op and split-screen multiplayer, I never would have enjoyed the Halo games (purchased Halo's 1-3, gave up after that). The New Super Mario Bros. Wii game looks great, but is taken to another level with the co-op. It goes from a rental (for me), to a purchase.

Games without a form of MP need to be really good for me to justify the purchase. I don't like the idea of a publisher pushing to get rid of SP only titles, but I can certainly understand why they would want all of their games to have some form of MP.
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 01:33:07 PM »

Quote from: Morgul on December 09, 2010, 01:28:33 PM

Single player?  From Dragon age, GOW1, gow2, gow3, falloutnew vegas, bauldurs gate, witcher, TOEE, icewind dale, civilization 4, civilization 5, red dead redemption, grand theft auto, infamous..   
A bunch, bunch more more.  But I am too lazy to type anymore.   Dont make me toss in the android and ipad games lol..

Single player is far from over.

A lot of these have MP and/or co-op game modes.
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 02:03:41 PM »

I'm think that's not what he's talking about.  He's talking about stuff like the Autolog in Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit.  Where you have a constant connection to some social aspect, even when you are playing single player.
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 02:17:24 PM »

The irony is, of course, that games such as Call of Duty and their popular multiplayer components are becoming a problem for publishers. The analyst Michael Pachter has commented on this a number of times, pointing out that when people can get hundreds of hours out of the multiplayer in a game like CoD, they'll be less inclined to purchase more games. A good multiplayer game might earn them more sales of that particular game, but it could also keep that same player from buying their next several releases simply because he's satisfied with the first one.
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 02:18:59 PM »

<in a developer room somewhere>
Carl! Carl! EA is dropping single player only games! But our game sets you up as the sole remaining human trapped in a mansion full of death puzzles! What are we going to do?

Relax Stan. I got it set up to update facebook every time you die. Social gaming for the win!

Excellent!
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 02:28:43 PM »

I know I'm in the minority here, but I have absolutely zero desire to game with other people.  Ever.  I want to be able to play when and how I want to play, without ever having to deal with another actual human being in my games. 

The day that games go multiplayer only is the day I quit gaming.
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 03:11:30 PM »

Quote from: raydude on December 09, 2010, 02:18:59 PM

<in a developer room somewhere>
Carl! Carl! EA is dropping single player only games! But our game sets you up as the sole remaining human trapped in a mansion full of death puzzles! What are we going to do?

Relax Stan. I got it set up to update facebook every time you die. Social gaming for the win!

Excellent!

I do not really understand the Social thing.  Why do people want games to update their facebook?

Do you care if Morgul reaches level 38 tonight in Black ops and unlocks the AK-47 ?

I know I sure could care less if you killed "the brood mother" or not.   I find it puzzling.

I thought these were games like "farmville" that married, bored women play in between chatting with other married, bored women.
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 06:37:32 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 09, 2010, 02:28:43 PM

I know I'm in the minority here, but I have absolutely zero desire to game with other people.  Ever.  I want to be able to play when and how I want to play, without ever having to deal with another actual human being in my games. 

The day that games go multiplayer only is the day I quit gaming.

You, you, introvert!  Tongue

Actually I think you're far from being alone in that. I enjoy some online, some LAN, and a heckuva lot of local co-op play, but there's many times when I just want to game alone with a good SP campaign. In fact I've hardly been online with CoD BLOPS this week as I've been sucked into my replay of Dragon Age. I also never play pay2play MMO's anymore. I think if EA follows through with this at the expense of games with quality campaigns/stories, they're making a big mistake. Not that I'll be very surprised if they make yet another BIG mistake.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 06:53:26 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 09, 2010, 02:28:43 PM

I know I'm in the minority here, but I have absolutely zero desire to game with other people.  Ever.  I want to be able to play when and how I want to play, without ever having to deal with another actual human being in my games. 

The day that games go multiplayer only is the day I quit gaming.

I could multiplayer allot more if everyone would take breaks when I want to take breaks... 
And not ever take a break and keep me waiting.  And play when I want to play, and not expect me to go out of my way to play when they want to play but I have something better to do.

After games like WOW and EQ, I just can't take dealing with people either, hah.   But, in Black OPs, it is multiplayer without the bad sides.   If they just had a "Mute all" button I would be set.   
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 07:10:01 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 09, 2010, 02:28:43 PM

I know I'm in the minority here, but I have absolutely zero desire to game with other people.  Ever.  I want to be able to play when and how I want to play, without ever having to deal with another actual human being in my games. 

The day that games go multiplayer only is the day I quit gaming.

I really don't think that this is what EA is trying to move towards. I got the impression that they just want all of their games to have some form of multiplayer in them. Is Fable 3 not a SP game? It has MP aspects to it, which sounds like it would fulfill what EA wants, while also allowing those who want to play it solo (like myself) to do that.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 07:37:38 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on December 09, 2010, 07:10:01 PM

Quote from: Gratch on December 09, 2010, 02:28:43 PM

I know I'm in the minority here, but I have absolutely zero desire to game with other people.  Ever.  I want to be able to play when and how I want to play, without ever having to deal with another actual human being in my games.  

The day that games go multiplayer only is the day I quit gaming.

I really don't think that this is what EA is trying to move towards. I got the impression that they just want all of their games to have some form of multiplayer in them. Is Fable 3 not a SP game? It has MP aspects to it, which sounds like it would fulfill what EA wants, while also allowing those who want to play it solo (like myself) to do that.

This could become a concern if it's adopted by a majority of the larger publishers. It's not a big investment for them, but if it becomes an expected standard it has the potential to negatively impact smaller publishers, dev studios and Indie dev's. Coding in online features are more of a significant time effort and investment for the smaller players. EA no doubt is all to aware of that, and like the other industry giants they'd love to kill off the smaller competition and get more/all of your gaming $. Starting a feature war and making your intentions public is just one tactic for achieving that. If they just wanted to serve their customer base, they would have taking a universal connectivity stance without a big press release.
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 07:43:58 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on December 09, 2010, 07:37:38 PM

This could become a concern if it's adopted by a majority of the larger publishers. It's not a big investment for them, but if it becomes an expected standard it has the potential to negatively impact smaller publishers, dev studios and Indie dev's. Coding in online features are more of a significant time effort and investment for the smaller players. EA no doubt is all to aware of that, and like the other industry giants they'd love to kill off the smaller competition and get more/all of your gaming $. Starting a feature war and making your intentions public is just one tactic for achieving that. If they just wanted to serve their customer base, they would have taking a universal connectivity stance without a big press release.

Why would EA want to kill any development studio? Aren't they a publisher?
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 08:12:03 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on December 09, 2010, 07:43:58 PM

Quote from: kronovan on December 09, 2010, 07:37:38 PM

This could become a concern if it's adopted by a majority of the larger publishers. It's not a big investment for them, but if it becomes an expected standard it has the potential to negatively impact smaller publishers, dev studios and Indie dev's. Coding in online features are more of a significant time effort and investment for the smaller players. EA no doubt is all to aware of that, and like the other industry giants they'd love to kill off the smaller competition and get more/all of your gaming $. Starting a feature war and making your intentions public is just one tactic for achieving that. If they just wanted to serve their customer base, they would have taking a universal connectivity stance without a big press release.

Why would EA want to kill any development studio? Aren't they a publisher?

They're a publisher with exclusive studios. So yeah they'd love to kill off any small fry they can't consolidate - especially Indie studios.
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2010, 08:14:09 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on December 09, 2010, 07:10:01 PM

I really don't think that this is what EA is trying to move towards. I got the impression that they just want all of their games to have some form of multiplayer in them. Is Fable 3 not a SP game? It has MP aspects to it, which sounds like it would fulfill what EA wants, while also allowing those who want to play it solo (like myself) to do that.

I still see that as a potentially major problem.  Take something like Dragon Age, for example (substitute your favorite single player game here).  If Bioware knows that EA is going to require them to include some sort of multiplayer, how much in the development process is changed?  Do they make it an FPS instead of an RPG?  Do they spend 1/10 of their development time on MP instead of polishing the SP campaign?  1/4?  1/2?  Do they allocate the same resources to story and plot development, or are those put towards implementation of MP elements?  Do they even make the game?

Regardless of how you look at it, forced inclusion of multiplayer aspects are going to negatively impact the time, effort, and resources that developers are going to be able to put towards developing stellar single player games.  And for those of us who don't give two shits about MP, that's a very bad precedent to set.
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2010, 09:13:28 PM »

I play very few games with other people.  I really enjoy solo experiences.  If EA isn't going to be supporting the single player experience, well...I guess I'll be voting with my wallet and not buying their products.
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2010, 09:26:18 PM »

I can understand publishers wanting some form of multiplayer to put on the box for every game.  Personally if a game is single player only I generally wait for it to drop in price, or simply rent it.  Even games like Bioshock and Dead Space were only rentals for me, even though I loved them.  Even if I never touch the multiplayer, I still see it as adding potential value to a game when I am deciding whether or not to pay $60 for it.
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2010, 09:34:59 PM »

Flower: Deathmatch edition.

'nuff said.
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2010, 09:58:43 PM »

Put me in the same camp as Knightshade and Gratch.  If single player games ever die, throw my body in the grave also. Resources should not be taken away from a strong single player game just to add token multiplayer features.
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2010, 10:21:24 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on December 09, 2010, 09:58:43 PM

Put me in the same camp as Knightshade and Gratch.  If single player games ever die, throw my body in the grave also. Resources should not be taken away from a strong single player game just to add token multiplayer features.

Or you could just take up another hobby.  Just sayin'  icon_wink
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2010, 10:25:14 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on December 09, 2010, 10:21:24 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on December 09, 2010, 09:58:43 PM

Put me in the same camp as Knightshade and Gratch.  If single player games ever die, throw my body in the grave also. Resources should not be taken away from a strong single player game just to add token multiplayer features.

Or you could just take up another hobby.  Just sayin'  icon_wink

no, he said it:  toss him in the grave.  no take backs! Tongue
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« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2010, 01:37:34 AM »

could this be another part of this new ideology?
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« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2010, 02:38:14 AM »

Dragon Age was a great SP experience, and I can see the concern that this guy is saying that games like DA would be cut, but I think the concern is unfounded.  It took me 100 hours to beat DA.  He is specifically calling out 22-25 hour games.  Although those are long for my taste, I can see his point a bit in ensuring they aren't beat them and toss them sort of experiences.  Especially when lookng at the price of games today.
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« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 02:23:58 PM »

Quote from: Travis on December 10, 2010, 02:38:14 AM

Dragon Age was a great SP experience, and I can see the concern that this guy is saying that games like DA would be cut, but I think the concern is unfounded.  It took me 100 hours to beat DA.  He is specifically calling out 22-25 hour games.  Although those are long for my taste, I can see his point a bit in ensuring they aren't beat them and toss them sort of experiences.  Especially when lookng at the price of games today.

You specifically mention Dragon Age - that game is an easy sell for me on co-op multiplayer.  The single player game is fantastic and that wouldn't be tainted by playing through it with a buddy.   

I can't imagine how Mass Effect 3 is going to do multiplayer though.  There is ONE commander Shepherd and she is hot and has short red hair.  smile
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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2010, 02:36:39 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 10, 2010, 02:23:58 PM

You specifically mention Dragon Age - that game is an easy sell for me on co-op multiplayer.  The single player game is fantastic and that wouldn't be tainted by playing through it with a buddy.  

Personally I have found that games which contain alot of NPC conversations and dialogue do not work well for co-op play.  I cannot immagine playing a game like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age co-op.  It seems like one of the players would always be reading dialogue boxes or waiting while others did the same.  Also with so many quests to manage it would quickly become confusing as to which quests have been completed by which player.

Other than pure shooters, games like Borderlands which focus much more on combat than story seem to work the best for co-op.
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« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2010, 03:22:04 PM »

Quote from: Morgul on December 09, 2010, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: raydude on December 09, 2010, 02:18:59 PM

<in a developer room somewhere>
Carl! Carl! EA is dropping single player only games! But our game sets you up as the sole remaining human trapped in a mansion full of death puzzles! What are we going to do?

Relax Stan. I got it set up to update facebook every time you die. Social gaming for the win!

Excellent!

I do not really understand the Social thing.  Why do people want games to update their facebook?

Do you care if Morgul reaches level 38 tonight in Black ops and unlocks the AK-47 ?

I know I sure could care less if you killed "the brood mother" or not.   I find it puzzling.

I thought these were games like "farmville" that married, bored women play in between chatting with other married, bored women.


I do not understand it either. I am mocking the EA president's philosophy on multiplayer and in particular I find it amusing that current developers of single player games could find a loophole around his "multiplayer only" philosophy by simply adding code to update facebook.

That's like the scenario where the boss says "you will be paid based on the lines of code you write" and me writing 1000 lines of code, where 999 lines are comments and the last line is the one that does the actual work.
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« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2010, 04:03:46 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 09, 2010, 09:13:28 PM

I play very few games with other people.  I really enjoy solo experiences.  If EA isn't going to be supporting the single player experience, well...I guess I'll be voting with my wallet and not buying their products.

This. I 100% agree.
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« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2010, 05:41:56 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on December 10, 2010, 02:36:39 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 10, 2010, 02:23:58 PM

You specifically mention Dragon Age - that game is an easy sell for me on co-op multiplayer.  The single player game is fantastic and that wouldn't be tainted by playing through it with a buddy.  

Personally I have found that games which contain alot of NPC conversations and dialogue do not work well for co-op play.  I cannot immagine playing a game like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age co-op.  It seems like one of the players would always be reading dialogue boxes or waiting while others did the same.  Also with so many quests to manage it would quickly become confusing as to which quests have been completed by which player.

Other than pure shooters, games like Borderlands which focus much more on combat than story seem to work the best for co-op.

Agreed, it's only the action-RPG's -Borderlands, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Champions of Noreth, BG Dark Alliance, etc- that really work for co-op. But man do they ever work well played that way!  slywinkthumbsup
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« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2010, 09:33:45 PM »

I bought Lord of the Rings Conquest not too long ago for the PS3 and come to find out, EA has already shut down the servers for it.. didn't it just come out last year?
If they want to go online-only, how about supporting the severs for a couple of years? Or at least offer a player hosted server option so the game can continue even if EA doesn't think it's worth it.

I very rarely play any singleplayer campaigns (last one that comes to mind was Knights of the Old Republic) but I appreciate offline bot/skirmish support. (Ie Unreal Tournament and Command & Conquer style. - Both games every multiplayer mode and map are available offline with computer-controlled players.)

It's disappointing to see so many new FPS's that lack bot support these days. If a developer truly wants to extend the singleplayer portion of the game, let the multiplayer stuff be available offline with AI players.
I still remember playing the Reaper bots on the original Quake way back in the day and remember how truly impressed I was by them.. and of course the guy who made the Reaper Bots (Steve Polge) is now the AI programmer at Epic Games so naturally Unreal Tournament's bots kick ass!

As far as online-only .. only game I've bought in that line is MAG, as 256 players fighting it out all at the same time was just too hard to resist! And it turned out to be a pretty damn good game.. the smallest match is 32 vs 32, while many new games (Halo Reach) are still living in 1998 with only 16 players.
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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2010, 10:40:57 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on December 10, 2010, 05:41:56 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on December 10, 2010, 02:36:39 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 10, 2010, 02:23:58 PM

You specifically mention Dragon Age - that game is an easy sell for me on co-op multiplayer.  The single player game is fantastic and that wouldn't be tainted by playing through it with a buddy.  

Personally I have found that games which contain alot of NPC conversations and dialogue do not work well for co-op play.  I cannot immagine playing a game like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age co-op.  It seems like one of the players would always be reading dialogue boxes or waiting while others did the same.  Also with so many quests to manage it would quickly become confusing as to which quests have been completed by which player.

Other than pure shooters, games like Borderlands which focus much more on combat than story seem to work the best for co-op.

Agreed, it's only the action-RPG's -Borderlands, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Champions of Noreth, BG Dark Alliance, etc- that really work for co-op. But man do they ever work well played that way!  slywinkthumbsup

you pretty much have to have voiceover for all dialogue for it to work
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« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2010, 10:52:07 PM »

Quote
There is ONE commander Shepherd and she is hot and has short red hair.
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I may even forgive your bad taste in liking Rush with that quote icon_twisted
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pr0ner
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« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2010, 08:02:40 PM »

You all are blowing this way out of proportion.  Single player games are not dead, and they're not dead at EA.  Not in the way the article and this thread sensationalizes it.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2010, 08:10:45 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on December 13, 2010, 08:02:40 PM

You all are blowing this way out of proportion.  Single player games are not dead, and they're not dead at EA.  Not in the way the article and this thread sensationalizes it.

I agree.
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