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Author Topic: EA DRM and banning.  (Read 4511 times)
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Victoria Raverna
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« on: October 26, 2008, 01:39:40 AM »

A while back there were articles about a moderator that claimed that they can ban you from your games that require online authentication. Not long after EA PR claimed that the moderator "misspoke".

Now seem like the moderator was right. This is a post by another moderator about EA's new C&C forum that tie the login with your master account.

http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=449687&tstart=0&start=0

Quote
Well, its actually going to be a bit nastier for those who get banned.

Your forum account will be directly tied to your Master EA Account, so if we ban you on the forums, you would be banned from the game as well since the login process is the same. And you'd actually be banned from your other EA games as well since its all tied to your account. So if you have SPORE and Red Alert 3 and you get yourself banned on our forums or in-game, well, your SPORE account would be banned to. It's all one in the same, so I strongly reccommend people play nice and act mature.

All in all, we expect people to come on here and abide by our ToS. We hate banning people, it makes our lives a lot tougher, but its what we have to do.

Those banned will stay banned, but like most other internet services, its not that hard to create a new fake e-mail account. However, its a lot harder to get a new serial key =)

Avatars should be back within 2 weeks of the launch.

-APOC

Quote
Re: New C&C.com Website Q&A - What you need to know about the launch
Posted:Oct 18, 2008 5:27 PM in response to: Nahilus (C&C) Reply Alert

RedBasti, we know each other and you know I tend to agree with you, but it's clearly stated in our "Terms of Service" that your actions on the forums can impact your in-game status. Your forum account is tied to your EA account, that's not for a bad reason, it's so we can tie all your stats and profile and such together.

Further, breaking our ToS and getting yourself banned is not easy if you act like a normal mature human being. We don't live on this planet to act like anything else.

If someone wants to waste time cheating, hacking, spamming, being crude and breaking ToS left and right on our forums and in-game, then we will waste no time suspending or banning you. Its a waste of your gaming life, just be cool and everything else will follow. Its really pretty easy.

-APOC

So it seems like they can and will ban you from your games if you do something that annoy their forum admin. Hopefully they won't abuse the power to include banning for anyone that criticize their games or post bad first impression/review on those forums.

Since this ban is for the master account which affect all games that are registered to that account, I think it is a good idea (not sure it is workable because of the EA Download Manager also require login) to register a separate account for each EA game with online authentization that you own. And since login name is e-mail address, you need to have separate e-mail for each game. Maybe register for one free web-based e-mail address each time you buy a new EA game.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 01:44:26 AM by Victoria Raverna » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 02:33:06 AM »

Quote
Since this ban is for the master account which affect all games that are registered to that account, I think it is a good idea (not sure it is workable because of the EA Download Manager also require login) to register a separate account for each EA game with online authentization that you own. And since login name is e-mail address, you need to have separate e-mail for each game. Maybe register for one free web-based e-mail address each time you buy a new EA game.

How bout we just don't post on their retarded forums smile
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 04:00:43 AM »

Or buy their games. smile
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 04:13:15 AM »

If that's their policy, that's going to last until the next class-action lawsuit against them, which is probably just days away.
 Roll Eyes

I'm not all that worked up over limited activation DRM schemes, but EA just seems to shoot themselves in the foot in some new way each and every week.

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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 04:56:13 AM »

My goodness, does this mean that some poor lout who shoots off at the mouth on the EA forums could see all his EA games requiring an online login rendered permanently useless? While I'm all in favour of jerks and cheats getting the punishment they deserve, it seems beyond extreme to revoke someone's ability to play the games they've paid for because of a violation of the forum's ToS. (I get that it works both ways, but actions that will get you banned from an online game are generally severe. Getting banned from some forums, on the other hand, ain't so tough.)

Does Valve/Steam have a forum? Would this not be similar to getting banned from the Steam forums, and then not being able to play any of the games you had registered to Steam? While I'm not someone who would likely ever get banned from anything, that just seems wrong.
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 01:58:33 PM »

This mess makes me glad I'm not buying any of their games. I skipped Spore, Far Cry 2, and will be skipping Red Alert 3 due to the DRM bullcrap the programs install.
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 02:19:07 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on October 26, 2008, 04:00:43 AM

Or buy their games. smile

Ditto... RA3 and FC2 already went from a must buy, to a, not gonna happen game for me. limited installs, and now this. I don't post on their forums anyway, so it wouldn't really affect me, but I don't agree with their policies, so I  will just not buy their games anymore.
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 04:23:48 PM »

This  is the first of the 'omg I can't beleive they did this' things EA has done that really is crazy enough for me to pass on most of their games from now on.  It just sucks that they control most of the 'great' upcoming games frown
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 05:06:59 PM »

sorry, I'm not going to be able tp pass on any EA games because of this.  They own Bioware, and with Dragon Age and eventually The Old Republic coming out (plus they'll be releasing The Godfather 2 plus Mirrors Edge and handling Left 4 Dead on the 360), I know I'll be buying their games anyway.  I don't bother with their forums anyways, so it's no biggie.  besides, I'm sure someone else will take care of this anyways with the aforementioned class action suit.
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 06:35:22 PM »

CeeKay's logic is impeccable; I'm simply not going to pass up Dragon Age or The Old Republic or any other game of interest.
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 07:08:06 PM »

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on October 26, 2008, 06:35:22 PM

CeeKay's logic is impeccable; I'm simply not going to pass up Dragon Age or The Old Republic or any other game of interest.

The Old Republic will be a MMO, so there's no DRM bullcrap there. Dragon Age could very well be a problem. Thing is, even with EA now owning them, I think the crazy fans will keep Bioware from putting the DRM crap on their game. And if they do? Well, fuck them. I won't buy it, just like I've been skipping all the other games.
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 09:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 26, 2008, 07:08:06 PM

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on October 26, 2008, 06:35:22 PM

CeeKay's logic is impeccable; I'm simply not going to pass up Dragon Age or The Old Republic or any other game of interest.

The Old Republic will be a MMO, so there's no DRM bullcrap there. Dragon Age could very well be a problem. Thing is, even with EA now owning them, I think the crazy fans will keep Bioware from putting the DRM crap on their game. And if they do? Well, fuck them. I won't buy it, just like I've been skipping all the other games.


Mass Effect for the PC still shipped with DRM.  Sure, they removed the phone home every 10 days, but it shipped with installation limits.
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 10:07:00 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 26, 2008, 07:08:06 PM

Quote from: JohnathanStrange on October 26, 2008, 06:35:22 PM

CeeKay's logic is impeccable; I'm simply not going to pass up Dragon Age or The Old Republic or any other game of interest.
Well, fuck them. I won't buy it, just like I've been skipping all the other games.

Yup same here. i was looking forward to cnc3, but due to the shitty drm not buying. there are a billion other games to play to support crap like that. nothing off my shoulders. shitty drm is still shitty drm no matter how its dressed.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 02:02:35 AM »

I'm a little bit shocked by this response. Even though I think this policy is unbelievable, I don't think it would keep me from buying a game I really wanted to play. But it's the first time I've seen so many reply that for them, it would. Which is something I fully support--I'm just surprised.

It's not as if I'll be working against you though, as I don't have time for gaming these days anyway. Tongue
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 02:52:36 AM »

For me, I just don't want to contribute to the slippery slope. It seems as if things are getting more and more extreme for the legitamate user, so I just don't want to support it.

Not too long ago, it would have been unheard of to have a game limit the number of installs. and now we have some severe limits and also a possibility that you could get banned from playing your game because some mod on EA's forums doesn't like you. And no, I don't think that is outside the realm of possibility. They are human and it is possible that the power will go to someones head.

Some people are also putting the burden of stopping this on other people. The whole, let the lawsuit fix it, while I buy it anyway thing. Lawsuits take time and if they have enough people buying it they could use it as evidence that their "majority" of users don't have a problem with it.

No other medium goes to these extremes..... My DVD's can be played on any number of DVD players one at a time. I can lend magazines out to friends and if I post on a magazines website and they don't like me, they don't cancel my subscription without a refund or anything.

If things like this get by, the companies will keep pushing it and pushing it. One day we WILL see DRM that says it can only be installed on one machine ever, maybe with one re-install.

I generally wipe my system once or twice a year. I also have a backlog of games that I keep going back to and playing.  Yes, there is porbably a way to call up and explain myself and get a new activation, but, besides the fact that there isn't a gaurantee for this, I also don't want to have to go through hoops to play a game I bought.

I am just worried about how far the companies will push the envelope, so far now, they have simply pushed me not to buy.

I am disappointed at missing FC2 and RA3, but, oh well... at least FO3 shoudln't have these issues and they can keep me occupied.... smile
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 03:29:20 AM »

That policy is ludicrous. Something that you did that didn't compromise their IP could affect you being able to use hundreds of dollars of games??? WTF?? Time for the FTC to get involved if you ask me. How can they sell you a 'license' and then revoke it for something that has nothing to do with playing the game?

I'm the first to support companies protecting their intellectual property and to condemn those who steal. But even I am just getting very very discouraged at EA's draconian policies as it relates to the use of their games. I was really looking forward to Red Alert but unless this is revoked I just can't continue to support them with my money. I'll have to give it a pass.
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 03:30:09 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on October 27, 2008, 02:52:36 AM

No other medium goes to these extremes..... My DVD's can be played on any number of DVD players one at a time.

Ehh. That's a good point, though I have little doubt that the MPAA and RIAA would love to head in a similar direction. It's scary as heck. Hey, at least my books are still safe! ...Or are they? (eBooks!) paranoid

You know, I sometimes seriously wonder whether a day is coming when I'll have to consider unplugging my ethernet cable and try to find ways to make use of my computer and all the wonderful content found on the Internet without actually being connected to it at home anymore, for reasons of privacy and security....
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 03:33:20 AM »

Hell I find it amusing. Never will effect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets banned from a game because he acted like Crowley on the EA forums.
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2008, 08:17:57 AM »

Quote from: Lee on October 27, 2008, 03:33:20 AM

Hell I find it amusing. Never will effect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets banned from a game because he acted like Crowley on the EA forums.

"Hell I find it amusing. Never will affect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets his phone tapped by the police because he's a terrorist."
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2008, 11:55:12 AM »

Quote from: Lee on October 27, 2008, 03:33:20 AM

Hell I find it amusing. Never will effect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets banned from a game because he acted like Crowley on the EA forums.

While it is in no way an equal scenerio, there is a poem or something that outlines this philosophy, but I can't rememebr the whole thing, but basically:

It affected Bob, but not me so I didn't care, then they changed it and affect Jane, but not me, so I didn't care, etc, etc.. then it ends with, it affected me, but there was noone left to care, or something like that......

Also, who says the person has to be an idiot? What if they go to the EA forums to complain about a bug in a game, but the mods decide that they don't want any negative stuff on the forums and ban them? It's not that far fetched....
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2008, 12:14:34 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 27, 2008, 08:17:57 AM

Quote from: Lee on October 27, 2008, 03:33:20 AM

Hell I find it amusing. Never will effect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets banned from a game because he acted like Crowley on the EA forums.

"Hell I find it amusing. Never will affect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets his phone tapped by the police because he's a terrorist."
It's obviously not that as big of a deal as domestic wiretapping, but that's pretty much true.

This is just unbelievable on EA's part, and I expect they'll reverse this policy in a matter of days.
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2008, 03:07:12 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on October 27, 2008, 12:14:34 PM

Quote from: TiLT on October 27, 2008, 08:17:57 AM

Quote from: Lee on October 27, 2008, 03:33:20 AM

Hell I find it amusing. Never will effect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets banned from a game because he acted like Crowley on the EA forums.

"Hell I find it amusing. Never will affect me, couldn't care less if some idiot gets his phone tapped by the police because he's a terrorist."
It's obviously not that as big of a deal as domestic wiretapping, but that's pretty much true.

This is just unbelievable on EA's part, and I expect they'll reverse this policy in a matter of days.
EA is walking the edge of a fine line, seeing just exactly how far they can push it.
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2008, 06:22:31 PM »

I'm not quite understanding what "banned" means in that linked-to thread.  Is it that if you cause a problem on an EA website, you get banned from all EA multiplay, forums, & other online features?  Or is it all that + you can't install your previously purchased games on another computer, even if you have "activiations" left over?

The latter would definitely make me think twice about purchasing EA games in the future.  I'd hate to lose the ability to reinstall games because an EA Mod thought one of my Spore creatures showed too much nip or something.
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2008, 08:24:46 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on October 27, 2008, 06:22:31 PM

I'm not quite understanding what "banned" means in that linked-to thread.  Is it that if you cause a problem on an EA website, you get banned from all EA multiplay, forums, & other online features?  Or is it all that + you can't install your previously purchased games on another computer, even if you have "activiations" left over?

The latter would definitely make me think twice about purchasing EA games in the future.  I'd hate to lose the ability to reinstall games because an EA Mod thought one of my Spore creatures showed too much nip or something.

Basially, it sounds like all current and future EA games have activation where you need an EA account. This is also used when playing any online portions of the games.
The problem is that your forum account is your EA game account as well, so if you get banned on the forums, it effectively bans you from playing your existing and future games as well.
So if you post the wrong thing on their forums, you run the risk of not being able to play any of your EA games.
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 08:51:11 PM »

Quote from: Punisher on October 27, 2008, 08:24:46 PM

Basially, it sounds like all current and future EA games have activation where you need an EA account. This is also used when playing any online portions of the games.
The problem is that your forum account is your EA game account as well, so if you get banned on the forums, it effectively bans you from playing your existing and future games as well.
So if you post the wrong thing on their forums, you run the risk of not being able to play any of your EA games.

Thanks for explaining.

The activation limits didn't bother me much, but this is just a bad idea.   I wouldn't care if people who were caught cheating in multiplayer lost access to the EA forums and/or game servers for that particular game, but anything beyond that is serious overkill.
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 09:44:43 PM »

I just see no way for them to retroactively enable this on games purchased before this new 'feature'.  There has to be some kind of warning on the box that behavior deemed detrimental on our forums could cause you to lose access to this game....blah blah.  If it's clearly labeled on the box than I suppose it's legal in a sense because you could choose not to buy it because of this.  However to ban you from playing any of the EA games prior to the one just purchased with said warning label would be borderline illegal imo.  I can't imagine that standing up in court, problem is who is going to pony up for the years of litigation it would take fighting's EA's army of lawyers.  In closing i would like to offer the following statement, which I have never used and always thought was a bit much and misguided most of the time......


Fuck EA.
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 11:34:02 PM »

I get the impression that EA is doing this more to control what is said on their forums than an attempt at DRM.  You said something negative about our game on our boards?  Well, how about not being able to play our games.  Not that would be a big loss anyways... Tongue
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2008, 01:49:02 AM »

Quote from: morlac on October 27, 2008, 09:44:43 PM

I just see no way for them to retroactively enable this on games purchased before this new 'feature'.  There has to be some kind of warning on the box that behavior deemed detrimental on our forums could cause you to lose access to this game....blah blah.  If it's clearly labeled on the box than I suppose it's legal in a sense because you could choose not to buy it because of this.  However to ban you from playing any of the EA games prior to the one just purchased with said warning label would be borderline illegal imo.  I can't imagine that standing up in court, problem is who is going to pony up for the years of litigation it would take fighting's EA's army of lawyers.  In closing i would like to offer the following statement, which I have never used and always thought was a bit much and misguided most of the time......


Fuck EA.

They wouldn't need it on the box, just in the various EULA's you agree to when installing games or signing up to the forums. The "retroactive" part could just be that you can't login to their servers to play any multiplayer games, but for any new game, if you need to login to play even single player, this could stop you from playing that. Does anyone know if Spore requires you to login at any point to play the single player portion?
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2008, 07:25:50 AM »

You don't have to log in to play Spore, but if you don't you won't get access to player-created content which is arguably the point of the game.
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2008, 08:32:59 AM »

Quote from: lex on October 27, 2008, 11:34:02 PM

.  Not that would be a big loss anyways... Tongue

Well it would be a loss of $60.  But of course that happens anyways whenever you buy an EA game.
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2008, 10:58:38 AM »

A story about EA's technical support regarding SecuROM's 3 computer license:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/6800.page
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2008, 12:16:58 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 28, 2008, 10:58:38 AM

A story about EA's technical support regarding SecuROM's 3 computer license:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/6800.page

I guess that should put the entire issue at rest. If you run out of installations (likely), you're on your own. EA has no interest in helping you, and will treat you as a pirate if you attempt to contact them. Hooray.

Reading that thread makes me angry. How can anyone even begin to defend this stuff?
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« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2008, 12:25:54 PM »

I wonder if its mainly we "powergamers" as I think most people here on GT and OO are, that have issues and troubles with this? The average gamer, if such a thing still exists, does he/she upgrade hardware and has several computers?

Anyways, we are the idiots, since we HAVE the information before the purchase, well I did anyways, but blindly bought it anyawys... consumer powers are in each and everyone oneof us, not just "the other ones"...
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« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2008, 01:40:03 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 28, 2008, 10:58:38 AM

A story about EA's technical support regarding SecuROM's 3 computer license:

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/6800.page

Quote
#6. He stated that changing out any hardware will directly use up an installation.

#7. He stated that changing firmware, or drivers will not use up an installation.

#8. He stated that reinstalling the game on the same computer will not use up an installation, unless you reformat.

#9. He stated that resetting your CMOS or BIOS will use up an installation.

Some things to keep in mind. Of course, I'll NEVER buy a game with this bullcrap on it, so it doesn't matter to me.
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« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2008, 04:00:12 PM »

Quote from: Punisher on October 28, 2008, 01:49:02 AM


Fuck EA.

They wouldn't need it on the box, just in the various EULA's you agree to when installing games or signing up to the forums. The "retroactive" part could just be that you can't login to their servers to play any multiplayer games, but for any new game, if you need to login to play even single player, this could stop you from playing that. Does anyone know if Spore requires you to login at any point to play the single player portion?
[/quote]

EULA are crap and will never hold up in court.  Besides you have to buy a game, open it and attemt to install before reading it, therefore negating any chance at a full refund.  Seeing as they will remove yourt ability to play a game you purchased I would think that some kind of warning has got to be on the product itself.
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2008, 01:37:29 AM »

Quote from: Punisher on October 28, 2008, 01:49:02 AM


Fuck EA.

Agreed.  I'll just pirate games like this if I want 'em.  Call it stealing, I really don't care.  I have the money - that's not an issue.  I'm just not going to deal with this kind of crap.  Of course, that doesn't mean that I have or will pirated the game.  I don't plan on getting the game - though I probably would if it didn't have this kind of shitty DRM.  It just means that, as far as I'm concerned, piracy is the better option if I were to acquire the game.   

And for anyone whose retort is "you'd pirate it anyway and you're looking for an excuse", no, I'm not and don't assume such a thing.  If I did, I wouldn't have given Stardock my cash for The Political Machine, Firaxis money for Colonization or any of the games I've purchased recently.  I'd download music for free instead of legally buying my music from Amazon.  When there's a DRM-free (or at least non-intrusive) version, I'll buy it every time.  But when there's crappy DRM like this, or StarForce, I'd rather pirate the product and I hope the publisher in question goes out of business as soon as possible.  Scorched Earth, baby!
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2008, 07:21:51 AM »

looks like someone was having a power trip  icon_wink
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2008, 07:24:46 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on October 31, 2008, 01:37:29 AM

Quote from: Punisher on October 28, 2008, 01:49:02 AM


Fuck EA.

Agreed.  I'll just pirate games like this if I want 'em.  Call it stealing, I really don't care.  I have the money - that's not an issue.  I'm just not going to deal with this kind of crap.  Of course, that doesn't mean that I have or will pirated the game.  I don't plan on getting the game - though I probably would if it didn't have this kind of shitty DRM.  It just means that, as far as I'm concerned, piracy is the better option if I were to acquire the game.   

And for anyone whose retort is "you'd pirate it anyway and you're looking for an excuse", no, I'm not and don't assume such a thing.  If I did, I wouldn't have given Stardock my cash for The Political Machine, Firaxis money for Colonization or any of the games I've purchased recently.  I'd download music for free instead of legally buying my music from Amazon.  When there's a DRM-free (or at least non-intrusive) version, I'll buy it every time.  But when there's crappy DRM like this, or StarForce, I'd rather pirate the product and I hope the publisher in question goes out of business as soon as possible.  Scorched Earth, baby!

wow - so, if someone does something to do you find unethical, or annoying, you want to break the law, and hope it hurts them?? Why not just skip the game? You'r still breaking the law, and commiting a federal offense, and hurting the developers as well...
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2008, 01:37:40 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 31, 2008, 07:21:51 AM


Quote
"After a flood of complaints the EA community moderator APOC corrects his statement about how banning you from the forums bans you from your game access as well:"That said, the previous statement I made recently (that's being quoted on the blogs) was inaccurate and a mistake on my part. I had a misunderstanding with regards to our new upcoming forums and website and never meant to infer that if we ban or suspend you on the forums, you would be banned in-game as well. This is not correct, my mistake, my bad."

In a nutshell at least. And I was wondering how long it would take before EA retracted this - it was spreading around the 'net like wildfire.
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2008, 02:21:09 PM »

I wonder if he really made a mistake or if EA needed a scapegoat for the backlash......
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