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Author Topic: Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale  (Read 3088 times)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2011, 12:13:18 AM »

Weapons and Loot system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpY9CmF_X0U
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« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2011, 09:59:23 PM »

There's so little info on this - based on what happened with Brink I'm thinking it might be smarter to go with XBLA for this?
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« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2011, 12:41:13 AM »

At the very least it is smarter to try out the XBLA demo first, and then buy it on PC if you like it.  smile
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« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2011, 03:14:43 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on May 24, 2011, 12:41:13 AM

At the very least it is smarter to try out the XBLA demo first, and then buy it on PC if you like it.  smile

+1 I'll download the XBLA demo, but I have LA Noire and Witcher 2 occupying my time at the moment


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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2011, 11:27:26 PM »

I hit a system-crashing bug in the demo, and that appears to be only one of many bugs in the game.  Joystiq gives the game a 1.5/5 in their review and Gametrailers' review isn't much better at 4.8/10.

From the Joystiq review -
Quote
Daggerdale starts out as a competent hack-and-slasher, and ends as an unmitigated disaster. That kind of downward-sloping quality curve is usually indicative of rushed development -- as are bugs, which Daggerdale has in spades. Characters, players and enemies frequently walk through pieces of the environment. Entire groups of enemies sometimes disappear from the screen mid-fight. Occasionally, after dying, loading a new chapter or joining a multiplayer game, your character will have all of his equipment and abilities removed and un-mapped.

What a disappointment  crybaby
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« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2011, 11:31:06 PM »

yowch.
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« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2011, 01:12:05 AM »

Bummer man.  That's a bummer.
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« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2011, 04:08:32 AM »

Very dissapointed to hear this. Even worse - my kids were really looking forward to it.  icon_frown  I'm going to have to come up with a substitute fast, since we've almost beat MUA2.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 04:19:28 AM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2011, 02:38:28 PM »

Finger poised over "BUY" button on xbox live site, check this site to make sure nothing's up, realize i'm about to make a big mistake.  thanks!
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« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2011, 02:40:36 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 26, 2011, 02:38:28 PM

Finger poised over "BUY" button on xbox live site, check this site to make sure nothing's up, realize i'm about to make a big mistake.  thanks!

there's probably a demo on XBL so you could at least try it.
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kronovan
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« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2011, 05:26:23 PM »

Worthplaying gave it 7.5/10 and had some positive things to say about the character customization system. Each class-race type has default starting stats, but you can tweak them to your desire from there. It also sounds like they captured the D&D feat matrix fairly well:
Quote
You have a lot of freedom in customizing each character's attack powers, feats and stat upgrades. Each character begins with a default loadout of stats, so as an example, you'll always have an 18 in Int as a Halfling Wizard. From there, you can customize to better fit your play style. A solo Wizard might be better off boosting his Constitution or Strength so he can do better in solo combat, while a multiplayer-focused Wizard can continue to boost his Int for even better damage.

Each attack power is bound to a different face button and functions on a cooldown system. Use them wisely, and you can constantly cast spells. Use them poorly, and your best attack will be unavailable when you need it the most. Feats grant passive bonuses to your characters and will probably be the biggest difference between higher-level characters. The Cleric, for example, can upgrade his healing ability so it also grants a defense buff. A Wizard who chooses to focus on melee training is going to be more useful in close-quarters combat than one who isn't, but it occurs at a trade-off to some other kind of ability.

The reviewers biggest gripe was with the production quality, stating that visuals and sound weren't very good. Almost all PC-NPC dialog is text, which is definitely behind the times - heck even BG Dark Alliance and Champions of Norrath had much more than what he's describing:
Quote
One thing that makes Daggerdale feel so bland is the visuals. It's not a very good-looking game; the art design is rather boring, and most areas don't stand out very well. It's not a problem when it comes to the gameplay, but more distinctiveness would've been nice. Dungeons and Dragons is obviously the cliché generic fantasy template, but on a system where you can even see truly phenomenal designs in XBLA titles, generic goblins and orcs feel a lot less interesting. The sound effects are also pretty dull. There's very little voice acting in the game, and most of the quest-givers are silent. It leaves everything feeling weirdly dated and simplistic, and it doesn't help that the music is almost nonexistent.

It's a bit dissapointing to hear that the offline co-op is only 2 players, and I'm surprised as IIRC the Xbox D&D Heroes this is supposedly inspired from had 4-player co-op. I didn't even bother to download the demo on XBLA last night, so tonight I'm going to do just that. Unfortunately I think this is the type of game (XBL game is 1.7 GB)  where a 1 level demo won't really indicate a lot.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 06:09:10 PM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2011, 07:06:58 PM »

I only got to play this for a few minutes last night, so I'm reserving judgment, particularly until I see some multiplayer action.  It seems like reviewers are hell bent on jumping on the bandwagon and bashing this thing before it even gets a chance.  The ratings on XBLA last night had over 3000 ratings and it was averaging around 4 stars IIRC, so clearly not everyone hates it.  

From the little I saw, it was pretty much what I expected, good, clean, simple hack and slash fun with a D&D overlay.  It's a $15 budget title, so I don't think comparing production values to even old games like BG:DA and CoN is fair.  Instead we should be comparing it to comparable current budget titles like Torchlight, which is probably a better overall loot and level game - but one that has NO multiplayer.  
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« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2011, 07:10:02 PM »

I don't think I could call it good, clean or fun. slywink

I played it through 2 times with each character (4x total) and the game is seriously lacking.  Probably worth $5 for coop, but definitely overpriced at $15.  Most indie games have more polish and tighter controls.

It's also kind of odd that the only rogue available is a ranged version.  They give you rogue with sneak attack, then a bow and all bow skills which doesn't use sneak attack without a talent.  Sloppy.

Especially if you are on PC, there are tons of better indie options.
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« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on May 26, 2011, 07:10:02 PM

I don't think I could call it good, clean or fun. slywink

I played it through 2 times with each character (4x total) and the game is seriously lacking.  Probably worth $5 for coop, but definitely overpriced at $15.  Most indie games have more polish and tighter controls.

WTF?  Is it really that short?!?  Also, did you play it co-op and did that make it more (or less) fun?

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?
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« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2011, 08:56:45 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?

How about Neverwinter Nights? It's $10, but considering how much better it is, that shouldn't really be an issue.
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rittchard
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« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2011, 09:07:32 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 08:56:45 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?

How about Neverwinter Nights? It's $10, but considering how much better it is, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Well... comparing it to old classic titles that were originally full priced games is really not fair either, is it?  NWN was developed as an A-list (or at least a full price) title at the time it came out.  I'm thinking more along the lines of games that released as budget titles, like Torchlight (which released at $20 on PC and $15 on XBLA) or maybe Deathspank.  I can't think of any off the top of my head that came out with MP.  

I'm still amazed that Hark could play this game through FOUR times and still say it's not worth $15.  Even if each playthrough was 3-4 hours long that would still be 12-16 hours of gaming, and there had to be something in it to make you willing to play it through more than once?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:09:59 PM by rittchard » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2011, 09:11:46 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 09:07:32 PM

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 08:56:45 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?

How about Neverwinter Nights? It's $10, but considering how much better it is, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Well... comparing it to old classic titles that were originally full priced games is really not fair either, is it?  NWN was developed an A-list (or at least a full price) title at the time it came out.  I'm thinking more along the lines of games that released as budget titles, like Torchlight (which released at $20 on PC and $15 on XBLA) or maybe Deathspank.  I can't think of any off the top of my head that came out with MP. 

Considering NWN's age, the comparison is apt. There's a reason why it's so cheap these days, yet even so it's an infinitely better purchase than Daggerdale. It also fulfills all the things you wanted from the game. If Daggerdale is to be a success, it actually has to compete against NWN. If it can't do that so many years later, it wasn't a good idea to release it in the first place.
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« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2011, 10:04:34 PM »

I'm talking about the demo Ritt, I played through the demo 4 times.  it's quite simply not fun, at all.

You're much better off spending $15 on Din's Curse as it has everything this has and more except fancy graphics. (though that's a plus in this case because the camera has serious issues in DD)

Playing through the demo, there is no way in hell I would pay for it, and that would be required to try out co-op. 

Unless you're made of money, there are better things made in the past to spend it on, and better things coming in the future to spend it on.  This really strikes me as a game that was put together by some programming grads to demo what they can do that then got the DnD license tacked on. 

On PC, play Din's Curse until something else comes along and you're spent your money better.  On XBox play Dungeon Siege 3 when it comes out, or any number of XBLA games similar. 
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« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2011, 01:36:05 AM »

I think they could re-release HD versions of Dark Alliance, and the Everquest PS2 games and do better than this thing.
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« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2011, 03:24:52 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 09:11:46 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 09:07:32 PM

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 08:56:45 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?

How about Neverwinter Nights? It's $10, but considering how much better it is, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Well... comparing it to old classic titles that were originally full priced games is really not fair either, is it?  NWN was developed an A-list (or at least a full price) title at the time it came out.  I'm thinking more along the lines of games that released as budget titles, like Torchlight (which released at $20 on PC and $15 on XBLA) or maybe Deathspank.  I can't think of any off the top of my head that came out with MP. 

Considering NWN's age, the comparison is apt. There's a reason why it's so cheap these days, yet even so it's an infinitely better purchase than Daggerdale. It also fulfills all the things you wanted from the game. If Daggerdale is to be a success, it actually has to compete against NWN. If it can't do that so many years later, it wasn't a good idea to release it in the first place.

Althought I don't like comparing apples and oranges, I have to agree with Tilt in terms of value. Last night when I was feeling disspointed about this game, one of the 1st thoughts that came to my mind was why not just replay NWN co-op. Heck even NWN2 Platinum can be purchased now for only $5 more than the cost of D&D Daggerdale. If the NWN games weren't too mature and complex for my daughter, I'd be purchasing additional copies today for a co-op replay.
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« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2011, 05:51:42 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on May 27, 2011, 03:24:52 AM

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 09:11:46 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 09:07:32 PM

Quote from: TiLT on May 26, 2011, 08:56:45 PM

Quote from: rittchard on May 26, 2011, 08:53:30 PM

I guess regarding the pricing, can you give an example of a comparable game (for $5 as you suggested) if I want hack and slash, loot, multiple character classes and co-op multiplayer?

How about Neverwinter Nights? It's $10, but considering how much better it is, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Well... comparing it to old classic titles that were originally full priced games is really not fair either, is it?  NWN was developed an A-list (or at least a full price) title at the time it came out.  I'm thinking more along the lines of games that released as budget titles, like Torchlight (which released at $20 on PC and $15 on XBLA) or maybe Deathspank.  I can't think of any off the top of my head that came out with MP. 

Considering NWN's age, the comparison is apt. There's a reason why it's so cheap these days, yet even so it's an infinitely better purchase than Daggerdale. It also fulfills all the things you wanted from the game. If Daggerdale is to be a success, it actually has to compete against NWN. If it can't do that so many years later, it wasn't a good idea to release it in the first place.

Althought I don't like comparing apples and oranges, I have to agree with Tilt in terms of value. Last night when I was feeling disspointed about this game, one of the 1st thoughts that came to my mind was why not just replay NWN co-op. Heck even NWN2 Platinum can be purchased now for only $5 more than the cost of D&D Daggerdale. If the NWN games weren't too mature and complex for my daughter, I'd be purchasing additional copies today for a co-op replay.

I'm not going to defend Daggerdale itself since I really haven't played it enough to one way or another.  But in terms of "value" comparisons, obviously everyone is free to compare as they want.  For me, I'm not going to compare a brand new *budget* release with an old "classic" in terms of gameplay depth and value - to me it's inherently unfair (unless the classic release itself was developed and released as a budget title).  It would be like comparing Torchlight to, say, Titan Quest and complaining that the production values seemed too cheap in TL; it just doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me.  My guess is in almost any case, you could find a comparable classic for cheap that far outshines a modern budget title for the same price. 

Now Din's Curse is a good one to compare, as Hark said it offers all the same features and more, and it was released as a budget title - for $20.  I love everything on paper about Din's Curse, but when it actually comes to playing it, I just don't get the "feeling".  Not sure if it's the graphics or the interface, but it just doesn't feel "smooth" to me.  Either way, I still wouldn't make a direct comparison with Diablo 2 and say you shouldn't bother with it just because D2 is now the same price.  Looking at the arguments above, it makes it seem like the developers should never have even bothered releasing Din's Curse because it could never complete with Diablo 2... 

Jumangi's suggestion of BG:DA is intriguing - if it were re-released as a budget title with full MP, it would still be somewhat unfair since that was also not a budget release. 
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« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2011, 06:20:32 PM »

I don't see why you dont' think you can compare them Ritt.  You should compare value, not intent.  It's irrelevant that NWN was developed as a full title not budget since right now, at this point in time, it's cheaper AND is still a better game.

If I release a really crappy version of a shooter that plays a lot like Call of Duty 2, and I only charge $15 for it, it's still a bad value compared to the real Call of Duty 2 that is available for $5.  The original price is inconsequential when looking at current value.  Why play a clearly inferior game, just because it's newer?  That's odd.  (might also explain why Hollywood keeps remaking older movies with crappy remakes, I guess you're the guy paying for them just because it's newer.  slywink )
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« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2011, 07:14:37 PM »

Yeah. "Fair" doesn't come into the equation. If one game offers more value than another, why should we care whether or not it's a "fair" comparison? Being a budget title means people are willing to accept less polish, but they still expect it to be competitive. There's a reason why few indie titles try to directly compete in the genres of triple-A titles but instead go into their own niches where there's less competition.
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« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2011, 12:28:56 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on May 27, 2011, 06:20:32 PM

I don't see why you dont' think you can compare them Ritt.  You should compare value, not intent.  It's irrelevant that NWN was developed as a full title not budget since right now, at this point in time, it's cheaper AND is still a better game.

If I release a really crappy version of a shooter that plays a lot like Call of Duty 2, and I only charge $15 for it, it's still a bad value compared to the real Call of Duty 2 that is available for $5.  The original price is inconsequential when looking at current value.  Why play a clearly inferior game, just because it's newer?  That's odd.  (might also explain why Hollywood keeps remaking older movies with crappy remakes, I guess you're the guy paying for them just because it's newer.  slywink )

Hehe yeah, maybe I am!  I definitely am always looking for shiny new toyz, and hoping for something fresh/new/different.

My problem with your (and Tilt's) logic is that by that standard, games that you love like Din's Curse should never have been released or developed, because for $20, Diablo 2 is a far superior game.  No one should bother releasing a budget fantasy TBS unless they can sell it for $10 and still have more content than HOMM3 with all its expansions or Disciples 2 Gold with all its expansions.  Every genre I could probably name a classic game that has far greater "value" simply by virtue it was a classic, has been polished over the years, and/or has many more expansions/content. 
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« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2011, 01:07:03 AM »

I actually feel that Din's Curse CAN compete with D2 (and to me it is a superior game).  The dynamic worlds offer something that D2 can't touch.  This is what Tilt was talking about that Indie/Budget games have to offer something 'special' to fill a niche that the giants don't.

If DC did nothing D2 didn't, you are right, but it does.  D2 also looks awful, and I do think you have to take how dated graphics are into account as well.  If someone released a game that was 95% D2 but had newer graphics, it would probably be worth it.

Until the graphics of HOMM and Disciples is too dated for the majority to still enjoy it, then you are also correct in that there isn't really a market for those games.  You have to add something or refine something to make your mark.

This game to me literally feels like some college students slapped it together on short notice or as a first project.  Just in this year I've played alpha's and beta's from small 2 man studios that were of higher quality.

Also I don't think that the type of content you mention from expansions and the like needs to weigh heavily on it.  I always put more weight on the gameplay over the content.  Things like maps, longer campaigns and the like can be added afterwards if the game is sound.  This is one place where I do think people weigh existing games a bit heavily.  Take WoW for instance.  The sheer amount of content will never be matched by another game that is just coming out, but that doesn't mean a new game can't compete imo.  It just needs to be polished enough and offer enough gameplay and then they need to work on increasing content at a rate quickly enough to retain people.
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