Hawke's Adventure (formerly know as Dragon Age II) - Impressions! Mods!

[CeeKay]

There's going to be a facebook mini game coming soon, with unlocks for DA2 kinda like that flash game for DA:O.


link!

[EddieA]

Worthplaying has some new screenshots, and these look a lot better than the others that have been released.

[CeeKay]

I really wish Steam would get off their Arses and put up the Signature edition for pre-order.

oh, and some gameplay plus screenshots.

[Turtle]

Dedicated PC gamer here. Don't really care about the loss of overhead view.

[CeeKay]

Eirogamer interview where they talk a bit about DA2.

[morlac]

Dedicated PC gamer here. Don't really care about the loss of overhead view.

Has this even been confirmed for the PC version yet?  I didn't use it exclusively but liked to zoom way out on occasion to get a feel for the whole 'battlefield'.  Espically when fighting a group of mages who immediatly scattered to the four corners.

[CeeKay]

Joystiq had a hands on with the opening.

[TiLT]

Dedicated PC gamer here. Don't really care about the loss of overhead view.

Has this even been confirmed for the PC version yet?  I didn't use it exclusively but liked to zoom way out on occasion to get a feel for the whole 'battlefield'.  Espically when fighting a group of mages who immediatly scattered to the four corners.

As much as I desperately want the overhead view from the first game, I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

[CeeKay]

"if you weren't careful in Origins, you could kind of end up in this branching situation where you have 1,000 quests open and it'd be very easy to lose your way." This new act system will give players the freedom to do things within each act, but when an act concludes, it could jump forward a year, sometimes more. This way, it's "easier for the game to stay cohesive," Darrah said.

I don't think I ever felt overwhelmed in DA1 as far as quests went.  I certainly think he's overexaggerating by a good bit with that 1000 quests open by at least 900, maybe 950.

[Scuzz]

Dedicated PC gamer here. Don't really care about the loss of overhead view.

Has this even been confirmed for the PC version yet?  I didn't use it exclusively but liked to zoom way out on occasion to get a feel for the whole 'battlefield'.  Espically when fighting a group of mages who immediatly scattered to the four corners.

Agreed...in a large battle the over-the-shoulder view just isn't very effective...

[CeeKay]

Another cool thing in the joystiq article is that they're re-vampng the rogue class, making it feel less like half warrior/half thief and making it stand on it's own 

[The Grue]

I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

What is a glass cannon mage?

[Razgon]

I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

What is a glass cannon mage?

Imagine a cannon, made of glass - this is how mages have been depicted many times in games. Deals insane damage but shatters (dies) at the first blow.

[CeeKay]

From a graphical standpoint, EA and BioWare are aiming for less disparity. The previous game looked great on the PC, but those playing the console versions complained. In the sequel, EA is hoping there won't be such a dramatic difference in graphics between the platforms. "This time, we're able to build more to each platform specifically, so it looks good on all three platforms," Darrah said. "On the PC, we're trying to keep it as close to what we had in Origins. I think, ultimately, Origins on the PC is closer to where it wants to be than Origins on the console was. And we're trying to get the console to where it wants to be without doing undue damage to the PC version."

so we get the dumbed down graphics because consoles kiddies cried!

[Razgon]

yeah - the game is sounding better and better...

[Turtle]

Yeah, far fewer cheese wheels lying around is such a terrible thing...

[CeeKay]

Yeah, far fewer cheese wheels lying around is such a terrible thing...

you may take my different origin stories, but you will never take my... CHEESE WHEELS!

[Razgon]

Yeah, far fewer cheese wheels lying around is such a terrible thing...

I hope its okay that I am of the opinion that dumping the game down towards console version of DA both in terms of whats possible in the game, and now graphics as well, is a bad move, is okay?

If you think this is great, fine - I dont.

Streamlining isnt always good - actually, in many cases, especially in games like RPGs, it its a bad thing. Less isnt always more.

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

So, if I'm being pessimistic about this game, and what Bioware is doing, there is ample reason to do so. I tried the console version, and it was horrible compared to the PC version.

[TiLT]

Exactly! The consequence in Dragon Age was that whenever an enemy mage appeared, any semblance of tactics went out the window and your only goal had to be to kill that mage as quickly as possible. I find that kind of approach to game magic archaic and frustrating. I'd rather have mages present a different kind of challenge from other enemies instead of being powerful enough to wipe out your entire party before you can even reach them.

Look at the approach D&D 4th Edition has to wizards, for example. They used to be glass cannons in earlier editions and as a result completely dominated the battlefield at higher levels, making other classes more or less obsolete. In 4E they instead take on the role of battlefield control. Their forte is to damage many enemies at once, or present enemies with debilitating effects such as slowness, dizziness, and similar things. They don't present much of a challenge on their own, but combined with a balanced group they can manipulate the battlefield in such a way as to present a better tactical situation for their allies, removing flexibility from the enemy in the process. I really can't even begin to explain how much more fun and interesting this makes combat.

[jersoc]

don't worry razgon, you're not alone. Bioware is falling quite fast. Sadly, after ME3 I don't see myself buying another bioware title again.

Consoles ruined shooters, save a few and now RPGs. Fucking stupid as shit. We need another video game crash and reset this industry asap.

[morlac]

As much as I desperately want the overhead view from the first game, I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

How do you accomplish this without them being super hero like?  I am using Wynne a ton in my playthrough and she has died the least amount of times compared to everyone else.  She is never near the action as her spells have some nice range on them, plus the stone armour is nice.  Same with Morrigan, though she has less range with her offensive stuff (at least how I have built her).  However if she gets bogged down I just shapeshift her to a bear.  High damage classes always suck at taking damage, there has to be a trade off somewhere or you might as well just have a big WIN button to push.

[CeeKay]

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

Thief 4? 

[TiLT]

As much as I desperately want the overhead view from the first game, I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

How do you accomplish this without them being super hero like?  I am using Wynne a ton in my playthrough and she has died the least amount of times compared to everyone else.  She is never near the action as her spells have some nice range on them, plus the stone armour is nice.  Same with Morrigan, though she has less range with her offensive stuff (at least how I have built her).  However if she gets bogged down I just shapeshift her to a bear.  High damage classes always suck at taking damage, there has to be a trade off somewhere or you might as well just have a big WIN button to push.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't want mages tougher (well actually I do, but see the next point), I want them to be more balanced with the rest of the classes. As it is in Dragon Age, a mage can easily one- or two-shot your party members, dealing damage to ALL of them at once. They deal way too much damage while also causing secondary effects (such as the vastly overpowered fireball with its massive damage, pushback AND knockdown, or the cone of cold... well, you know how bad that one is). I say limit the damage mages can do. If a mage can do light to medium damage to a large amount of enemies at once, that's more than enough. Leave the high damage output to classes that only affect one or two targets at a time, preferably at close range where the risk equals the reward. Make ignoring the enemy mage a choice that is just as viable tactically as ignoring the enemy fighter, only with different kinds of consequences.

[Gratch]

I played DA all the way through on 360 and am about 10 hours in on PC.  The lack of an isometric view is a pretty minor issue for me.  I was initially very excited to be able to play with that view on PC, but find myself actually using it very little.  The default over-the-shoulder view seems to work best.

[Razgon]

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

Thief 4? 

yes - Thief 4...why?

[CeeKay]

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

Thief 4? 

yes - Thief 4...why?

not sure if you're being serious or not, but just in case.

[Razgon]

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

Thief 4? 

yes - Thief 4...why?

not sure if you're being serious or not, but just in case.

http://nofrag.com/2010/nov/07/36150/ - its an hours playthrough by these guys that I'm talking about.

[CeeKay]

An example is Gothic 4 of what is currently being done with RPGs, another is Thief4 where an hours play had around 10 percent sneaking - the rest was a standup, liniear fps game.

Thief 4? 

yes - Thief 4...why?

not sure if you're being serious or not, but just in case.

http://nofrag.com/2010/nov/07/36150/ - its an hours playthrough by these guys that I'm talking about.

gotcha.  It sounded like you had already played it the way you worded it.

[morlac]

As much as I desperately want the overhead view from the first game, I'd give it up in a second if it meant getting rid of the glass cannon mages. Those were so bad for me that if I was reviewing the game I'd pull a full 10 percentiles off the score because of them.

How do you accomplish this without them being super hero like?  I am using Wynne a ton in my playthrough and she has died the least amount of times compared to everyone else.  She is never near the action as her spells have some nice range on them, plus the stone armour is nice.  Same with Morrigan, though she has less range with her offensive stuff (at least how I have built her).  However if she gets bogged down I just shapeshift her to a bear.  High damage classes always suck at taking damage, there has to be a trade off somewhere or you might as well just have a big WIN button to push.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't want mages tougher (well actually I do, but see the next point), I want them to be more balanced with the rest of the classes. As it is in Dragon Age, a mage can easily one- or two-shot your party members, dealing damage to ALL of them at once. They deal way too much damage while also causing secondary effects (such as the vastly overpowered fireball with its massive damage, pushback AND knockdown, or the cone of cold... well, you know how bad that one is). I say limit the damage mages can do. If a mage can do light to medium damage to a large amount of enemies at once, that's more than enough. Leave the high damage output to classes that only affect one or two targets at a time, preferably at close range where the risk equals the reward. Make ignoring the enemy mage a choice that is just as viable tactically as ignoring the enemy fighter, only with different kinds of consequences.

While Mages can sometimes (use resistence gear) one or two shot you, they can also be just as quickly neutralizied.  Use stuns and knockdwons on them to prevent them from ever casting.  also, you should never try and fight them in a small tight group, spread out and use range to nullify the area effect.  Once you know how to take them down, it's quite easy. 

[CeeKay]

don't worry razgon, you're not alone. Bioware is falling quite fast. Sadly, after ME3 I don't see myself buying another bioware title again.

too bad they didn't just stick with PC's 

[TiLT]

While Mages can sometimes (use resistence gear) one or two shot you, they can also be just as quickly neutralizied.  Use stuns and knockdwons on them to prevent them from ever casting.  also, you should never try and fight them in a small tight group, spread out and use range to nullify the area effect.  Once you know how to take them down, it's quite easy. 

Yeah, you just emphasized my point. Thank you!

[CeeKay]

from EA Showcase London.

[Roguetad]

I know exactly what you're talking about Tilt, but I'm wondering how they would accomplish that kind of balancing in a world where they very clearly put mages on the top of the balance pecking order based on the lore.  In other words, mages are meant to be insanely powerful in this world, feared, and reacted to exactly as you described...priority target that needs to be dealt with or the group dies.  Even in the really cool trailer for DA (where the party npcs look nothing like the in game models) the PC rallies his group and orders them to take down the emissary asap, when faced with hordes of baddies.  Heck, mages are rounded up (Warhammer 40k style) and locked away in the tower for the rest of their lives...or until they are safely tamed, so to speak.   

My easiest and fastest playthrough of DA was as a mage.  It was also fun, although a little easy compared to life as a melee character in DA.  So at least they made the same imbalance of power available to the player 

I guess they could make mage spells in DA2 oriented more towards crowd control, but people love blowing stuff up and melting bad guys...or exploding bad guys with blood magic.   

[CeeKay]

They're talking about going the same route like they did with the Cerebus Network for DA2.

[morlac]

While Mages can sometimes (use resistence gear) one or two shot you, they can also be just as quickly neutralizied.  Use stuns and knockdwons on them to prevent them from ever casting.  also, you should never try and fight them in a small tight group, spread out and use range to nullify the area effect.  Once you know how to take them down, it's quite easy.  

Yeah, you just emphasized my point. Thank you!

NM reread your points and I guess I did . 

I think the problem is that all the AI Mages in Dragon Age are damage dealers for the most part and go rather light on the buffs/debuffs aspect.  Yo ucan certainly create a 'support' mage but I have yet to really encounter one out in the wilds.

[Scuzz]

While Mages can sometimes (use resistence gear) one or two shot you, they can also be just as quickly neutralizied.  Use stuns and knockdwons on them to prevent them from ever casting.  also, you should never try and fight them in a small tight group, spread out and use range to nullify the area effect.  Once you know how to take them down, it's quite easy.  

Yeah, you just emphasized my point. Thank you!

NM reread your points and I guess I did . 

I think the problem is that all the AI Mages in Dragon Age are damage dealers for the most part and go rather light on the buffs/debuffs aspect.  Yo ucan certainly create a 'support' mage but I have yet to really encounter one out in the wilds.

Compared to some of the mages you run into in BG1 & 2 the mages in DOA are fairly easy to take down....but then I always thought they over did it in the BG series....

[TiLT]

Compared to some of the mages you run into in BG1 & 2 the mages in DOA are fairly easy to take down....but then I always thought they over did it in the BG series....

Yeah, I'm not mentioning those games for a reason. They're from a different age of game design and archaic in more ways than one when it comes to how the rules are used. Having said that, unless my memory is completely off, mages were (mostly) difficult in the BG games because they artificially gave them instant immunity spells at the start of combat, forcing you to use various means of dispelling to even damage them in the first place. The spells they cast weren't (usually) as powerful as the ones you are subjected to in Dragon Age.

[Razgon]

I do seem to remember one of the most difficult fights in Bg1 was the mage you meet at the Inn at the beginning of the game, since he instantly casts magic missiles at you, usually killed you outright

[Scuzz]

Compared to some of the mages you run into in BG1 & 2 the mages in DOA are fairly easy to take down....but then I always thought they over did it in the BG series....

Yeah, I'm not mentioning those games for a reason. They're from a different age of game design and archaic in more ways than one when it comes to how the rules are used. Having said that, unless my memory is completely off, mages were (mostly) difficult in the BG games because they artificially gave them instant immunity spells at the start of combat, forcing you to use various means of dispelling to even damage them in the first place. The spells they cast weren't (usually) as powerful as the ones you are subjected to in Dragon Age.

There so far has been no need to use dis-spelling spells in DOA ( i am about 3/4 thru the game). The strategy is when you run into a spellcaster...take him down first and fast. Then worry about the other guys.

[TiLT]

Compared to some of the mages you run into in BG1 & 2 the mages in DOA are fairly easy to take down....but then I always thought they over did it in the BG series....

Yeah, I'm not mentioning those games for a reason. They're from a different age of game design and archaic in more ways than one when it comes to how the rules are used. Having said that, unless my memory is completely off, mages were (mostly) difficult in the BG games because they artificially gave them instant immunity spells at the start of combat, forcing you to use various means of dispelling to even damage them in the first place. The spells they cast weren't (usually) as powerful as the ones you are subjected to in Dragon Age.

There so far has been no need to use dis-spelling spells in DOA ( i am about 3/4 thru the game). The strategy is when you run into a spellcaster...take him down first and fast. Then worry about the other guys.

Yes, I mentioned the dispelling as something unique for BG compared to DA. They compensated in DA by pumping up the spell power, which made things different (and in my opinion, considerably worse).