Hawke's Adventure (formerly know as Dragon Age II) - Impressions! Mods!

[cheeba]

Making choice of class the only way to develop a character is front-loaded. Just so you understand what I mean, I'm not necessarily saying that you make all the choices at the beginning of the game, but when you choose a class, there are few if any significant choices left to make unless you choose another class.

Oh look, again you're wrong. You're really not helping your case here! (God that's childish, how do you not wince when you write that?)

Choose a warrior. DPS warrior or tank? Dual wield, sword and board or two-hander? Rogue - ranged rogue? Backstabber? Trap setter? What kind of warrior or rogue? Barbarian? Assassin? Kensai? If you select warrior or rogue in Baldur's Gate 2 then you have just as many if not more options of how you're going to play the game than Dragon Age. And you can dual class which opens up a whole new world of options.

That's not good game design in my eyes, and it leaves you having to make all the important decisions before you even begin playing the game.

Yeah people often talk about how poorly designed Baldur's Gate 2 is. Few people ever call it one of the best crpg's ever. 

[TiLT]

Yeah people often talk about how poorly designed Baldur's Gate 2 is. Few people ever call it one of the best crpg's ever. 

What has that got to do with anything? Ask a random handful of people what their favorite thing about Baldur's Gate 2 was, and I'm pretty sure you'll find a disappointingly small segment that answers "the class system".

Haha, I'm actually starting to enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself (again). Keep going, PLEASE!

[morlac]

Yeah people often talk about how poorly designed Baldur's Gate 2 is. Few people ever call it one of the best crpg's ever. 

What has that got to do with anything? Ask a random handful of people what their favorite thing about Baldur's Gate 2 was, and I'm pretty sure you'll find a disappointingly small segment that answers "the class system".

Haha, I'm actually starting to enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself (again). Keep going, PLEASE!

Err.  I loved the class system so much that I only played in 'multi' player mode so that I could start with more than one custom character.  I could never decide what type of fighter to make as it is my preferred RPG class.  Plus multi calls Bards were full of all sorts of fun!  Then of course I always found the add on NPC's lacking in some department (except witty dialogue) that  I wanted to make another of my own. No pure mages for example.  Then there were all sorts of sub classes that could really make them unique.  I could never decide on a single one.  Hell I once played 3/4 of the way through with 4 custom characters and only 2 slots for NPC's.  I really think you are selling it short to try and make your point.  Thouh  i would agree the mages were kinda vanilla, unless you went the wild mage or sorcerer route.

[cheeba]

What has that got to do with anything? Ask a random handful of people what their favorite thing about Baldur's Gate 2 was, and I'm pretty sure you'll find a disappointingly small segment that answers "the class system".

Haha, I'm actually starting to enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself (again). Keep going, PLEASE!

Let's recap, shall we?
I say that having many classes and up to 6 party members makes for a more complex, deeper game than having 3 classes and 4 party members.
You say that's not true, that all those classes and options are really just an illusion! OMG it's all front end there's no choices!
I say no, you can multi-class which opens up a whole other class full of options to play with.
You concede that point, but think that by telling me I'm losing the argument that I actually am. Still, there's no customization for single classes!
I show that there are customization options for single classes, at least as deep if not deeper than Dragon Age.
You don't bother to respond to that argument and instead attempt to murder logic by arguing that if the class system is not listed as everyone's favorite thing about the game then the class system must have been horrible, even though no one ever really complained about it. You also go on again about me losing the argument.

My earlier statement proved correct... it required epic and you delivered.

[TiLT]

It would take a moron of epic proportions to argue that the class system in Dragon Age comes close to the complexity and depth of Baldur's Gate 2.

My earlier statement proved correct... it required epic and you delivered.

Ah, a personal attack. Finally!

[Razgon]

Well since I mostly played the 360 version I do (just starting out on PC just to compare). What you lose with the overhead view, is the closeness to your characters. Remember that the most sought after hak for NWN was the first person view. So some clearly prefer that way of playing (Oblivion/Fallout3 anyone?).

With PnP it was clearly nice to have figurines and tactical paper but not in any way necessary. We rarely used any figures with Call of Cthulhu for instance. Mapping yes but nothing else. These things usually detracts from the story which is bad in my book.

I think the console version of DA mainly sufferd from being thought out after the PC version. This time it is integral in the development process and I expect a much better console version.

No, you dont lose anything - you get more options.

[marcusjm]

But they lose, since options take time to create (unless you hare satisfied with a couple of textboxes that look cool).

I also like options but they have to make sense.

[Razgon]

But they lose, since options take time to create (unless you hare satisfied with a couple of textboxes that look cool).

I also like options but they have to make sense.

Are you serious? So, if they make the overhead view, the game will suffer horribly? And making it doesnt make sense?

[marcusjm]

But they lose, since options take time to create (unless you hare satisfied with a couple of textboxes that look cool).

I also like options but they have to make sense.

Are you serious? So, if they make the overhead view, the game will suffer horribly? And making it doesnt make sense?

That was probably a design decision more than anything, I was thinking of fancy spells and stats and stuff.

Well, I am sure EAs financing department would like to hear from you if you have extra cash lying around for investments. I thought you said
you were a developer? Everything costs, even an extra dot.

[TiLT]

But they lose, since options take time to create (unless you hare satisfied with a couple of textboxes that look cool).

I also like options but they have to make sense.

Are you serious? So, if they make the overhead view, the game will suffer horribly? And making it doesnt make sense?

I think his point might be that if there's an overhead view, they must design the graphics and the levels so they look good both from that view and from the regular 3rd person view. It might seem like something that would just "work", but it's not that simple.

[marcusjm]

As a side note, as expensive as developers in Norway are it would be intersting to hear how they handle feature requests there .

[TiLT]

As a side note, as expensive as developers in Norway are it would be intersting to hear how they handle feature requests there .

As a Norwegian developer, I mostly just laugh in the face of feature requests and tell the user to send an email so I can "archive" it.

[morlac]

It would take a moron of epic proportions to argue that the class system in Dragon Age comes close to the complexity and depth of Baldur's Gate 2.

My earlier statement proved correct... it required epic and you delivered.

Ah, a personal attack. Finally!

You two might want to get a room or something as you are not really bringing anything to the discussion except snarkiness. 

[Razgon]

oh dear lord...

Yes, one of the big changes for Dragon Age 2 is that the combat has been revamped (or stripped back, depending on how you look at it) -- turning it into a much more hack-n-slash type of game when playing as a Knight. This is all done through a closer third-person perspective than the first game; think Ninja Gaiden, and how you hacked through dozens of enemies, blood spilling everywhere -- now replace ninjas with darkspawn, and you have the basic idea behind DA2. Currently, that's how it appears your main character, Hawke, a Knight (we're assuming that's the default class, like how Shepard defaults to being a Soldier) plays in the game.

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3180562

While some may be happy to have more hack'n slash games, I dont - I actually thought this was the beginning of a great new Rpg series, but this is going in the exact opposite direction.

[CeeKay]

from that Comic Con hands on:

Framed Narrative: Dragon Age: Origins took place over two years, but Dragon Age 2 has a 10-year timespan. You'll see your character evolve over that time and see the direct results of your actions on the world. "It's the most reactive game we've ever made," said Laidlaw.

I don't remember there being a timeline in the first game, but it sure didn't feel like it took place over 2 years.

[Razgon]

I think the time you spent in the dwarven mines was close to two years...

[TiLT]

Oh well, at least DA2 shares one thing with its predecessor: All its marketing is bad marketing.

[Razgon]

Oh well, at least DA2 shares one thing with its predecessor: All its marketing is bad marketing.

So true! Someone over at Qt3 remarked that once again they seem to be trying really hard to get him to NOT buy the game...

[Sarkus]

Keep in mind that's the new console combat system they are describing, not the PC version.  Bioware is really pushing the console changes so far and haven't even shown the PC version of the game yet.  Keep in mind that about 70% of physical sales were console versions on DAO, so you can see their incentive to focus on that version this time.

[CeeKay]

Hitler chimes in on the changes.

[marcusjm]

Like I said, they are learning from Mass Effect 2, losing some gamers stuck in arcane ways won't really matter since
general sales willl go up.

[marcusjm]

Didn't Youtube ban these remakes? Well if HItler likes the old way I think I will go with the new .

[Razgon]

Like I said, they are learning from Mass Effect 2, losing some gamers stuck in arcane ways won't really matter since
general sales willl go up.

Why are you so condescending in your posts? Its fine to have opinions, but to negate others isnt really very helpfull in anyway.

[marcusjm]

Like I said, they are learning from Mass Effect 2, losing some gamers stuck in arcane ways won't really matter since
general sales willl go up.

Why are you so condescending in your posts? Its fine to have opinions, but to negate others isnt really very helpfull in anyway.

So? I have my opinion you have your opinion. My opinion is that the changes are good and you are free to buy something else as usual.
If I was an owner of Bioware I too would look into increasing sales, not reducing them to satisfy some gamers who really should be looking at indie rpgs like those godawful ones from Spiderweb, if they
wan't stats and numbers rather than fun gameplay.

[CeeKay]

Like I said, they are learning from Mass Effect 2, losing some gamers stuck in arcane ways won't really matter since
general sales willl go up.

Why are you so condescending in your posts? Its fine to have opinions, but to negate others isnt really very helpfull in anyway.

+1, I'm just ignoring him from now on.  all he seems to do is to take a shite on what everyone else likes.  if he has issues he can take this to PM, of course they won't get through.

[CeeKay]

I think the time you spent in the dwarven mines was close to two years...

I'm talking in game, not real life 

[Razgon]

Like I said, they are learning from Mass Effect 2, losing some gamers stuck in arcane ways won't really matter since
general sales willl go up.

Why are you so condescending in your posts? Its fine to have opinions, but to negate others isnt really very helpfull in anyway.

+1, I'm just ignoring him from now on.  all he seems to do is to take a shite on what everyone else likes.  if he has issues he can take this to PM, of course they won't get through.

yeah, I'm ignoring it as well...its just trolling it seems...

[marcusjm]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

[morlac]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

 

[TiLT]

I think marcusjm has a good point. Sid Meier should definitely take a hint from Bioware and have Civilization VI be a third-person shooter, as they clearly showed that it can be very well received and earn them a lot of money. What could possibly go wrong?

[Razgon]

I It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

we really need an ignore function around here - I have no interest whatsoever to listen to the above kind of posts.

[TiLT]

Referring to mine? I was tongue-in-cheek.

[Razgon]

Referring to mine? I was tongue-in-cheek.

no no, to Marcusjm's post that I qouted

[Greg Wak]

Those things are still funny. Here's the thing for me and games. While sometimes I will wonder why a dev did things a certain way because it makes some things quite a bit annoying while I'm playing, for the most part I just want a fun game. I don't spend much energy tweezing things apart thinking it would be more fun if they had done b instead of a. I just want to have a good time while I'm playing. Yes I'm simplistic.

[Arkon]

Those things are still funny. Here's the thing for me and games. While sometimes I will wonder why a dev did things a certain way because it makes some things quite a bit annoying while I'm playing, for the most part I just want a fun game. I don't spend much energy tweezing things apart thinking it would be more fun if they had done b instead of a. I just want to have a good time while I'm playing. Yes I'm simplistic.

+1

In the end all that matters is if I have fun playing the game.

[Knightshade Dragon]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

I can't even begin to follow your logic.  Care to explain?

[morlac]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

I can't even begin to follow your logic.  Care to explain?

Rage post are never logical.  Best to just ignore and move along.

[ericb]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

I can't even begin to follow your logic.  Care to explain?

I think he's claiming that since you gave ME2 (and it's scaled back, simpler system) such a high score that you shouldn't be putting DA2 down for doing the same thing.  Of course at this point it's mostly useless ranting anyway since no one really knows what the final game on the PC is going to look or act like.

Anyway, I'm probably going to get it.  I'm most of the way through Origins and just finished Awakenings tonight so I'm in the DA mood right now

[Sarkus]

I am getting the game I wan't and that is all that matters.
Win/Win situation I think it's called?

You know what's really funny about this? This is the score GT gave to ME2

OVERALL:99
So suddenly GT is not behind this anymore? Suddenly using the experience from one success is a bad idea?

Given what Sarkus wrote(I didn't know the difference was that big) then apparently Razgon and Ceekay is in the minority so maybe the
task of being humble belongs to the minority in this case? It's the fucking idiots who rant and rave while not having anything to back it up with who
should be humble not the other way around.

In fairness, the changes from ME1 to ME2 are not as extreme as what appears to be happening from DA1 to DA2 on the consoles.  ME1 was already pretty actiony to begin with and even it does not resort to "pressing the button on the controller causes a direct action" the way that DA2 seems to be heading for the console versions.  The console versions of DA1 were much closer to a traditional tactical RPG then what appears to be coming.  So in that sense ME2 can be seen as a logical evolution of ME1, while DA2 appears to be less an evolution of DA1 then an attempt to turn it into ME2 with dragons and wizards.

[Razgon]

Speaking of Dragon-age, I just noticed on my Bioware profile I unlocked 8 achievement a few days ago in DA:O...its been..a year since I played it last :-D Also, my main character has a reward for reaching lvl 20, but the character sheet says lvl 17..awesome system, this.