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Author Topic: DQ8 - Dark Ruins boss - Seriously, WTF?  (Read 1331 times)
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kathode
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« on: March 27, 2006, 01:47:27 AM »

Seriously, is this someone's idea of a joke?

I imagine this has been well covered in the DQ8 topics, but I'm so pissed off right now that I feel it deserves it's own thread.

I spent two days fighting those tedious blood mummies, bone barrons, and fallen priests over and over and over again to get my hero up to 29 to take him on.  I start up the battle.  Ok he splits into three guys and it really fucking sucks.  I'm healing, buffing, healing buffing, and getting in the occasional shot.  Even when his two clones go down it's still hard because he gets two attacks per round.  The thing that REALLY pissed me off is that damn ice spell that negates not only any buffs, but any tension you've raised.  So I basically learn that I just have to sit there and pluck away at him for 60 or 100 damage depending on whether I can keep Oomph going for more than a round or two.  By the end everyone is at mid-health and Angelo is down to like 15 magic.  I think "holy hell, I heard a lot of bitching about this boss and they were right.  Boy did that suck."  

What happens next pissed me off so bad that I spent a good 15 minutes in the OO search page looking for the following image.  I finally found it with a search for the phrase "son of cock" and filtering for posts by rrmorton.



I mean goddammit, I killed the dude.  You gave him a certain amount of health, and I took it all the way down to zero.  That means that assmunch is fucking DEAD.  He doesn't get to come back even more powerful with more health.  He's got zero.  He's dead.  That's it.  I don't understand this JRPG fetish of making you sweat through a difficult battle only to throw you immediately into ANOTHER battle that would've damn near impossible had you gone in with full stats.  As long as I'm magically summoning impenetrable shields to ward off big thorns or whatever the hell happened in that scene, can't I magically restore all my stats?  Why don't when I die I come back into the fight with twice the health and twice the damage?

I think this might be the fight that makes me quit the game.
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 01:55:23 AM »

REPOST:

Quote from: "The_Man"
I keep getting destroyed in the Dark Ruins.  I don't think I am even close to killing "the big guy" and he wipes out my entire party everytime.  Are there any tricks to beating him or is my party just too low?  My guys are all 26, 25, and I think the chick is 24.
Well, ideally you want everyone to be AT LEAST 27 with the best gear you can get at the time (be a man, use an Alchemy FAQ).  This is the hardest fight in the game, bar none -- mostly because your characters are still low-level and lack the skill point distribution to have high utility and/or the devastating combos/abilities.

The Hero and Yangus unequivocably need the best weapons you can get for them at this point.  They are:

Sword:  Zombieslayer (upgraded Zombiesbane)
Spear: Demon Spear
Boomerang:  don't bring a Boomerang to a sword fight.

Axe: Moon Axe (technically you could get a King Axe, but that costs you a Slime King Crown to alchemize, which is royally not worth it.)
Scythe: Steel Scythe
Hammer:  dunno, Hammers suck.

I'd recommend using whatever weapon you're specialized in, but there are some caveats:

-The Demon Spear is the third best spear in the game, with 86 Attack.  The Zombieslayer is only a mid-range sword with 65 Attack.  If you've dumped into swords, by all means use the ZS, as you'll get the +Attack bonuses and make up for the attack difference and a slew of skills.  But the Demon Spear is by far the superior weapon.

-The Moon Axe (60 Attack) beats the Steel Scythe (42 Attack), but again, if you've specced into Scythes, the skill +Attack bonuses will make up the difference.

Alchemy Spoilers on how to make these weapons:

Zombie Slayer:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Zombiesbane + Gold Rosary = Zombieslayer.  Buy a Zombiesbane in the Argonia bazaar weapon shop.  Buy a Gold Rosary at the item shop on Neos.


Demon Spear:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Battle Fork + Poison Needle + Devil's Tail = Demon Spear.  The Battle Fork appears once in the game: in the treasure room at Argonia (well, it can drop from certain special monsters, but those aren't an option at this point).  Poison Needles are purchasable in Baccarat.  And the Devil's Tail appears in a variety of places, but most likely the last one you found was in the Argonian treasure room.


Moon Axe:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Iron Axe + Gold Nugget = Golden Axe.  Moonwort Bulb + Moonwort Bulb + Moonwort Bulb = Moon's Mercy.  Golden Axe + Moon's Mercy = Moon Axe.  A long recipe, but worth it if you're an Axe man.  Buy an Iron Axe in Pickham.  The only Gold Nugget you have access to at this point is from Princess Minnie's, after turning in 52 medals.  Moonwort Bulbs are ultra-common and purchasable from any item shop.  You might be hesitant about using the Gold Nugget, as it seems pretty rare at this point.  Don't worry -- you'll get several more before the end of the game.


Steel Scythe:  You buy it in Baccarat.

Now properly equipped, (god have mercy on your soul if you went Boomerangs, and you'll need to ask someone else about Hammers), it's time to talk tactics for the big guy.

**BANK AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN BEFORE SETTING OFF**

General Tactics (Form 1)
Big guy's first form is freakin' hard, because at the onset, he triples himself, getting three turns while your party gets one.  Fortunately, these two new doppelgangers have about 1/3 the HP of the center guy.  Even better, once one of the side clones is down, it's down for the rest of the fight -- the central, 'real' copy will not revive or re-summon them.

So, the goal is pretty straightforward in this fight.  Knock out those doppelgangers, then go to town on the center.

This is the first fight where you'll encounter the 'ice wave' ability.  This extremely obnoxious attack strips your party of all buffs and resets their tension to zero.  What this means is pretty simple:  when you're fighting three copies of the guy, it's really not worth buffing beyond the bare necessities, and it's definitely not worth psyching up.  Once you've knocked out the side copies, it's safer to buff and psych up, as the potential to get hit with an ice wave is lower.

Hero:  Use the best attack abilities for your weapon and be ready with a spot heal (get level 27 for Fullheal) if things get ugly.  Sword-users should rely on Falcon Slash, which delivers about 150% attack damage if both hits connect.  Spear users should just attack until the center form is left, then spam Multithrust til the cows come home.

Yangus:  Like it or not, by this point in the game, Yangus has fallen behind the Hero in terms of melee damage, and will remain there for the rest of the game.  To up the number of options Yangus has in combat, fill his inventory with Armor Seco essences and use them to spot-heal if needed.  Otherwise, Yangus should be attacking every round.  At this point, he doesn't have any effective combat abilities, so vanilla Attack is fine.

Jessica:  Jess is your Oomph-bitch.  Even if you've specced hard into Staves with Angelo and have Oomph for him as well, Jessica's sole responsibility in this fight is to keep Oomph up at all times on Hero and Yangus.  If by some chance Jessica gets a turn and Oomph is already up on both the Hero and Yangus, have her cast Accelerate (3pts into Staff), or spot heal with Caduceus (57pts into Staff) or Armor Seco Essences.

Angelo:  Healbitch, pure and simple.  Consider leveling him to 30, because he gets Multiheal at that level, which is 100hp+ to every party member.  The only time he shouldn't be healing is when he's dead.

The question you need to ask every round is, could one or more of my party members die in the next round of attacks?  If so, you need to break from these strategies and re-calibrate for a healing round as appropriate.  If a low-defense target is in danger, (Jessica, Angelo), you may want to order the low-Def target to "Defend" while you queue up a heal.  This way if you get unlucky with turn order, there's a better chance of the target surviving the round of attacks so the heal can land.

General Tactics (Form 2)
Pretty much a straightforward brawl.  You don't get to rest or recover between Form 1 and Form 2, though, so a wipe is definitely possible.  This is why you banked your money -- if you die, you can rest, re-supply, and go back to restart the fight from Form 2, which is quite nice of Square-Enix.

Hero: Same song, second verse.  Spam Falcon Slash / Multithrust.  Spotheal if things get nasty.

Yangus:  Helm Splitter every attack, because you can lower this Form's defense.  You DID put at least 6 points into Axes, didn't you?

Jessica:  Oomph-bitch as normal, but note that the Ice Wave seems to occur less frequently than the last fight, so you'll often find Jessica not needing to Oomph.  Instead Accelerate, cast Insulate to lower the elemental damage this form flings at you, along with Magic Barrier, (31pts into Staff) if you have it, to further lower magic damage you sustain.  Finally, if you have Bounce (21pts into Staff) consider casting it.  This renders Jessica immune to the boss's party-wide magic attacks like Kacrackle and Kasizz, and also bounces them back at the boss.  However, you will be unable to heal Jessica with spells -- you'll have to rely on item-based healing or Jessica's own Caduceus ability (57pts into Staff).  Note that Bounce does NOT protect her from the ice wave dispel.

Angelo:  Heal.  Alot.  You'll really wish you had Multiheal on this form, if you don't have it already.

Pound away and, more importantly, survive, and Form 2 will finally go down.

If you use these strategies and still can't beat this encounter, level up!  As forestated, Angelo gets Multiheal at 30, which is great for these fights.  If you've dumped into Swords with the Hero, he's probably very close to learning Miracle Slash (82pts into Sword).  You should be able to grab it around 30-32 if you've put the majority of your points into Swords.  If not, there are always Seeds of Skill and, of course, grinding.  Miracle Slash is great because it does good damage and simultaneously heals the Hero for about 40-50% of the damage inflicted.  Quite a nice way to stay alive in these fights while continuing to do damage.
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Farscry
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 02:57:06 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
REPOST:

The Hero and Yangus unequivocably need the best weapons you can get for them at this point.  They are:

Sword:  Zombieslayer (upgraded Zombiesbane)
Spear: Demon Spear
Boomerang:  don't bring a Boomerang to a sword fight.

Axe: Moon Axe (technically you could get a King Axe, but that costs you a Slime King Crown to alchemize, which is royally not worth it.)
Scythe: Steel Scythe
Hammer:  dunno, Hammers suck.


Everytime I read this, I laugh, because my hero was using a boomerang for this fight (I did have him on swords for backup though; but I maxxed the "courage" skillset before I did the "swords" one, and put a few points into boomerang for the ATK stat boost), and on my playthrough Yangus was focused on hammers/clubs.  biggrin

Kathode, it's a supremely nasty fight, and LE has some solid advice there.  I just don't want you to be discouraged thinking you have to have the most powerful equipment in the game by that point.  What you do have to do is have a solid team plan, for which LE has a lot of good advice in that post.
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coopasonic
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 03:21:23 AM »

I leveled up to where angelo got the multi-heal, suddenly it was almost easy and I had the wrong weapons for everyone.
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 04:02:09 AM »

I hope you saved your game after you died. Because if you did, then the next time you go to the boss you only have to fight his second form. I don't know anybody that can manage to defeat both forms one after the other.
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 07:33:22 AM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
I hope you saved your game after you died. Because if you did, then the next time you go to the boss you only have to fight his second form. I don't know anybody that can manage to defeat both forms one after the other.
I did...  biggrin
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2006, 09:25:52 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry_Redux"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
REPOST:

The Hero and Yangus unequivocably need the best weapons you can get for them at this point.  They are:

Sword:  Zombieslayer (upgraded Zombiesbane)
Spear: Demon Spear
Boomerang:  don't bring a Boomerang to a sword fight.

Axe: Moon Axe (technically you could get a King Axe, but that costs you a Slime King Crown to alchemize, which is royally not worth it.)
Scythe: Steel Scythe
Hammer:  dunno, Hammers suck.


Everytime I read this, I laugh, because my hero was using a boomerang for this fight (I did have him on swords for backup though; but I maxxed the "courage" skillset before I did the "swords" one, and put a few points into boomerang for the ATK stat boost), and on my playthrough Yangus was focused on hammers/clubs.  biggrin


Same here, I beat this fight using boomerang and Jessica with whip. With the hit all weapons, it is actually easy with the first phase with the two boss copies.
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2006, 12:04:28 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
I hope you saved your game after you died. Because if you did, then the next time you go to the boss you only have to fight his second form. I don't know anybody that can manage to defeat both forms one after the other.
I did...  biggrin

I did, but only because I got so incredibly lucky at the end of the second form that Yangus landed a crit and dropped the guy when the rest of the team was dead and the next hit was going to drop Yangus too.  biggrin  Like I said, I got LUCKY.   :lol:
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2006, 12:52:49 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
I think this might be the fight that makes me quit the game.


just made my first trip to the final dungeon, & i'd say, having made it as far as you have, that'd be too bad. not really crazy about leveling myself, but getting everyone up to 30 for this battle pretty much gets you set for the rest of the game, & when the game's as good as this one, it's definitely worth the effort...
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2006, 12:53:08 PM »

I cant help laughign when I read this... lol

I remeber going apey over a few boss fights in my day, lol
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kathode
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2006, 03:13:29 PM »

Thanks for the repost of those tips.  I'll have to give some of those a go.  Multiheal would definitely help, but I am absolutely sick of leveling up at this point.  My skills are good - Good sword skill for Hero, maxed axe for Yangus, maxed staff for Jessica, good bow for Angelo.  Lost about 8k gold by dying in that battle, but I guess I'll give it another shot after a trip to the bank.  Rar.
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2006, 03:53:06 PM »

DQ8... what the hell is this DQ8 you are talking about.... you are supposed to be working on official mods and expansions to the only game that currently exists in the world...

OBLIVION!!  GET TO IT....


ermmm I mean.... sorry never played DQ8, maybe you need a DQ Burger  or a Banana Split.  They closed all the DQ's in my area it would seem, haven't been to one in ages.
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2006, 03:58:26 PM »

A lot of great advises in this thread. In my game I am still an area before heading into the Dark Ruin (still have to get the mirror), but now I am just running around leveling up and try to get monster arena wrapped up.

I am thinking the Call Team ability might be helpful against the boss in the Dark Ruin... also to level up, if you zoom to Farebury and get on your boat from there. There's a small island directly east of there that is populated with Metal Slimes, Treevils that revives fallen enemies, and Bombulders that uses Kerplunk. I been use that to gain some level while grinding some gold.

To those whom had beaten the game, how far along am I in?
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2006, 05:34:35 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
Multiheal would definitely help, but I am absolutely sick of leveling up at this point.  


I quit at this exact same point, for this exact same reason.  I got burned out on levelling, and doing so for another 3-4 hours just to get my characters to the required levels to beat this boss made me throw in the towel.  Add the fact that I realized about 12 hours in that I had built my characters completely wrong, and I just got rid of the game.
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2006, 06:40:06 PM »

You can make do without Multiheal -- read an Alchemy Faq and make a Chiron's Bow for Angelo.  If you 'use' the Chiron's bow from your inventory, it heals everyone in the party for 30-40 HP.

It's about a third as effective as Multiheal, but it's mana-free and leveling-free.
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