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Author Topic: Doom deservedly gets a 5/10 in Xbox Nation  (Read 7099 times)
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DiamondDecision
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« on: June 05, 2004, 08:41:57 PM »

Someone at Xbox Nation (XN) put have got a pretty good look at Doom and gave it a 5/10.  Said that the game was pretty linear and didn't think there was enough "...twists" to make it great.  

To all of that, I have one thing to say...

DUH!

I'm been shocked from day one at all the hype Doom has been getting.  Sure the graphics are great, but with enemies that run straight at you (that's what id said it will do!) and a multiplayer that you have to join at the beginning (that's what id said it will do), it's a game that would have competed well 10 years ago but makes for a bargain basement pick today.

And knowing id, it will be pretty short as well.

I haven't looked forward to Doom once and certainly won't be getting it.  Games with an AI like Far Cry are the future of FPS.  This same tired rehashed crap from id doesn't deserve gaming dollars.  I guarantee you that it is sells through the stratosphere (and it probably will), you'll be sending the signal to the publishers that all you want it graphics.  And that is all you'll get. No AI.  No plot.  Just graphics.

*sigh*

(raises his wine glass to the Console Gold forum and speaks the following toast...)

"Let's hope Doom doesn't sell a bazillion copies and good games get back-burnered while we slug through gobs and gobs of Doom wannabees that are only about graphics, not about AI, and not about plot."
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dandylife
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2004, 09:20:13 PM »

Apparently this website either rated a preview of a game or reviewed a game that is not yet final.  Either way, they're stupid.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2004, 09:23:49 PM »

So you're saying that we can't draw judgments from what id shows them at E3 and from what id tells us?

Quote from: "dandylife"
Either way, they're stupid.


Sounds like you already formed an opinion about the game from the information you've received.  Why can't Xbox Nation?
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dandylife
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2004, 11:15:07 PM »

I'm saying that Xbox nation is stupid for assigning a review score (5/10) to a game that is not even complete.  Draw whatever conslusions you want from E3/previews/etc., but don't try to rate a product that isn't complete.

Where in my previous post did I express an opinion about Doom 3?  The pronoun I used was referring to Xbox nation (calling them stupid for assigning a review score to an unfinished game), not id.
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2004, 11:17:08 PM »

What version of the game was reviewed?
What type of review process was it?
Did the reviewer actually play the game, or base the opinion on video footage?
How long did the reviewer play the game?
How was the reviewer able to get a clear idea of the plot, if he/she didn't play through the game?
How did the controls handle?
How were the graphics?
How was the music? Sound effects? Atmosphere? Ambience?
How was the level design?
How about the choice of weaponry and variety of monsters?
Did all the monsters exhibit the same AI behavior, or those in said scenes the review "got a pretty good look at"?
What faults does the game have to have, to get a 5/10 on the said review scale?

And those're only some of the questions I have of this.. was it a review, or an opinion again?

Having said that, I've seen the trailer for Doom 3, and based on only that, I give the game an 8/10.

My point is, giving an opinion/guestimate is fine and dandy, but I really hope he/she's not trying to pass it off as a review. Because that, as dandylife said, is stupid.

Me, I'll take a wait and see approach on the game. I never really was too interested in the game, beyond it having a new engine other developers can use to create better games.
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dandylife
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2004, 11:26:05 PM »

DiamondDecision, can you provide a link to this preview/review/whatever of Doom 3?  I can't seem to find it on 1up/Xbox nation's website.
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2004, 01:11:27 AM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
So you're saying that we can't draw judgments from what id shows them at E3 and from what id tells us?

Quote from: "dandylife"
Either way, they're stupid.


Sounds like you already formed an opinion about the game from the information you've received.  Why can't Xbox Nation?


I don't see where you can claim that dandylife already formed an opinion of the game when he didn't say anything about the game.  He simply stated that it's pretty unfair to judge a game that is not even finished.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2004, 03:27:18 AM »

Here is the skinny:

They don't have a copy of the game, they are doing it to simply get hits.

ID and Activision will NOT be giving out p/review copies, it will be going STRAIGHT to retail boxed copies.   They may have formed their opinions from the E3 demo, but how much do you wanna bet that they didn't get into the behind closed doors (and in the dark with only a dim red light) gameplay that Eldon and I got?  

I have to admit, I was fairly impressed with the title, and while the story is truly almost non-existent there is some actual gameplay that is fairly fun to be had.  If I had to rate it based on my E3 demo time alone (which I wouldn't certainly publish in a wide-spread format) I'd probably give it about an 80%.  5 out of 10 is just hit-mongering bullshit, and that's the fact, Jack.
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2004, 03:32:19 AM »

Quote
DiamondDecision -

I am *definitely* down for a PSP. I've been waiting and waiting for a REAL portable gaming box. The Gameboy stuff is just too underpowered for me. All the games have little round happy people. Blah!


Quote
DiamondDecision -

you'll be sending the signal to the publishers that all you want it graphics. And that is all you'll get. No AI. No plot. Just graphics.



It is almost too easy.
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2004, 04:18:09 AM »

I thought this was a joke, a review about the original Doom!  Doom III! :oops:

I think it's generally agreed that Doom III is a tech demo for the engine.  The Xbox version will sell a ton of games regardless of reviews.

While not present on the PC, it does have co-op on the console, doesn't it?
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2004, 01:14:34 PM »

Quote from: "Belgedin"
Quote
DiamondDecision -

I am *definitely* down for a PSP. I've been waiting and waiting for a REAL portable gaming box. The Gameboy stuff is just too underpowered for me. All the games have little round happy people. Blah!


Quote
DiamondDecision -

you'll be sending the signal to the publishers that all you want it graphics. And that is all you'll get. No AI. No plot. Just graphics.



It is almost too easy.


Your post indicates a dichotomy in my opinions.  There isn't.  I like better graphics like the next guy, but would *never* buy a game that has ONLY graphics.

I'm certainly not buying Doom and if the PSP games are only about graphics, I'm not getting one of those either. They won't be just about graphics.

The GBA's interface are essentially side-scrollers (a few exceptions exist, but not many) while the PSP's hardware will allow for full 1st and 3rd person views.  Much more interesting games will be possible with the whole thing fitting in your pocket.  w00t!
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2004, 01:17:58 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
the story is truly almost non-existent


Okay, you agree with Xbox Nation.

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I have to admit, I was fairly impressed with the title,
Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I'd probably give it about an 80%.  5 out of 10 is just hit-mongering bullshit, and that's the fact, Jack.


Errrrrrrrr,,,,,,,,,, an 80% for a storyless game?

(note to self - ignore Knightshade Dragon's upcoming review of Doom) ;-)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2004, 03:01:51 PM »

The graphics, sound, and control are the only factors I was looking at really.  Rating a product that isn't close to being finished, thats really all you can do.  You can't really capture the gameplay category because you haven't got the whole experience.  You can't judge the value/replay as you haven't seen how long it is or whether its worth replaying.  I made an educated guess how I expected it might turn out.  If I found a single hiccup that would pull the game into the 70s range...so thats probably about right.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2004, 03:33:16 PM »

Fair response.

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
The graphics, sound, and control are the only factors I was looking at really.  Rating a product that isn't close to being finished, thats really all you can do.  You can't really capture the gameplay category because you haven't got the whole experience.  You can't judge the value/replay as you haven't seen how long it is or whether its worth replaying.  I made an educated guess how I expected it might turn out.  If I found a single hiccup that would pull the game into the 70s range...so thats probably about right.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2004, 07:08:04 PM »

Okay guyts time to actually read the freaking article in question.


XBN does not review Doom 3 in the latest issue.

If you read the damned magazine you'd see that they had a "psychic" predict the score of the game. It was just something fun to read in the magazine this month..

Goddamn some people are total loons. God help us all...

Next time, ALL OF YOU READ THE DAMN MAGAZINE! Xbn is the best Xbox mag out there, do you really think that they'd do this?

And Ron, you know as well as I do that XBN/1up doesn't have to put shit up to get hits, they're one of the busiest game sites on the web.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2004, 07:13:17 PM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
Okay dipshits time to actually read the freaking article in question.


Okay dipshit,,, time for you to read what's written in this thread.  Here's what I wrote - "Someone at Xbox Nation (XN) put have got a pretty good look at Doom and gave it a 5/10."

Who said anything about a "...review"?
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Tebunker
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2004, 07:16:20 PM »

But it's not even a published opinion, so why do you bring it up? No one actually rated  the game in the magazine. So if it's just by hearsay then who gives a darn?

Read the magazine, the article it sounds like you're referring too is what I posted about above. No one actually saw the game, they asked a psychic to think about the game and give their thoughts, and the psychic thought it'd rate a 5/10

that diamond and I am getting more on the other posters in this thread for not even taking the time to check the information out.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2004, 07:21:06 PM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
But it's not even a published opinion, so why do you bring it up? No one actually rated  the game in the magazine. So if it's just by hearsay then who gives a darn?

Read the magazine, the article it sounds like you're referring too is what I posted about above. No one actually saw the game, they asked a psychic to think about the game and give their thoughts, and the psychic thought it'd rate a 5/10

that diamond and I am getting more on the other posters in this thread for not even taking the time to check the information out.


1) It is a published opinion, it's in Xbox Nation magazine.

2) The person with the 5/10 didn't pull that out of the air, they quote the lack of "twists" in the plot and general thoughts about the game itself.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2004, 07:22:43 PM »

A 'psychic' review?  I believe I've officially heard it all now.  If that isn't trolling for hits I don't know what is.
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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2004, 07:27:10 PM »

yeah because you know they record hits in a magazine...

Look, until you read the article howabout you keep it zipped, that goes for everyone. If you haven't read it you really can't comment.

It was a joke article, to be funny, nothing serious, god you guys are just.... I'm not even going to comment anymore, I just find it sad that you guys will argue over something as trivial as this without even reading the subject material in question.

You haven't read the magazine you can't truly comment on the article. It's nothing serious the psychic makes comments on a bunch of future games, especially ones they'd know nothing about. Any comment made by the psychic would be totally guessing, including the  "twists" comments. You know that's why they're "psychics there diamond, they pull shit out of thin air...

Done, end of conversation. Buy the Mag, it's great magazine, read the article, you'll realize how stupid you looked, and now how stupid I look, for arguing about it on the internet.
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dandylife
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2004, 07:34:40 PM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
Quote from: "Tebunker"
Okay dipshits time to actually read the freaking article in question.


Okay dipshit,,, time for you to read what's written in this thread.  Here's what I wrote - "Someone at Xbox Nation (XN) put have got a pretty good look at Doom and gave it a 5/10."

Who said anything about a "...review"?


Well, gee, DiamondDecision, assigning a score to a game is kinda indicative of a review, or at least a judgement that has greater weight than a preview should have.  And none of your posts mention anything about the psychic gimmick that Tebunker brings up, so how were we supposed to know what the magazine was doing?

After my first several posts, it occured to me that you might have mistook the date of the article's posting or something like that for a review score because the idea presented in your original post of a review score assigned to a preview makes no sense to me whatsoever.  So, I asked for a link to the article because I wanted to see this thing for myself.  I had no luck finding the article on 1up.com.  Is it print only?
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2004, 07:38:01 PM »

Quote from: "dandylife"
Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
Quote from: "Tebunker"
Okay dipshits time to actually read the freaking article in question.


Okay dipshit,,, time for you to read what's written in this thread.  Here's what I wrote - "Someone at Xbox Nation (XN) put have got a pretty good look at Doom and gave it a 5/10."

Who said anything about a "...review"?


Well, gee, DiamondDecision, assigning a score to a game is kinda indicative of a review, or at least a judgement that has greater weight than a preview should have.  And none of your posts mention anything about the psychic gimmick that Tebunker brings up, so how were we supposed to know what the magazine was doing?

After my first several posts, it occured to me that you might have mistook the date of the article's posting or something like that for a review score because the idea presented in your original post of a review score assigned to a preview makes no sense to me whatsoever.  So, I asked for a link to the article because I wanted to see this thing for myself.  I had no luck finding the article on 1up.com.  Is it print only?


Whatever misconceptions you dream up from what I write is your problem.  Also the "psychic gimmick" you characterize from Tebunker has nothing to do with me.  See Tebunker about that.  The article I read had reasons for the 5/10 and wasn't pulling a "Carnack".
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dandylife
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2004, 07:40:50 PM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
yeah because you know they record hits in a magazine...


No...but they do record sales.

You're very hostile.  I sure hope you aren't related to an old Gone Golder who went by Tebunker the Next Generation.
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2004, 07:43:07 PM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"
Okay dipshits time to actually read the freaking article in question.


XBN does not review Doom 3 in the latest issue.

If you read the damned magazine you'd see that they had a "psychic" predict the score of the game. It was just something fun to read in the magazine this month..

Goddamn some people are total loons. God help us all...

Next time, ALL OF YOU READ THE DAMN MAGAZINE! Xbn is the best Xbox mag out there, do you really think that they'd do this?

And Ron, you know as well as I do that XBN/1up doesn't have to put shit up to get hits, they're one of the busiest game sites on the web.


Dipshits? Love you too, buddy.

1. Based on the original post, nowhere was it said that this was a parody, instead of a professional take on the game's progress.
2. In most cases, reviews get a numeric score. Not opinions. Hence the presumptions that the said opinion was more than just an opinion.
3. A link was requested for the said opinion, so as to varify what the scoop was behind it. Y'know, to get clarification on the issue.
4. No link to the information was ever posted.
5. No link to the information was ever posted.
6. Some of us do not have a subscription to XBN magazine, and therefore are unable to storm through the boards to proclaim the issue at hand at a just light, while calling everyone who misunderstood what said article meant, because of the original post and because they actually didn't own said article, a dipshit.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2004, 07:47:11 PM »

hence why I removed that from my original post, a tad too rough I understand. Should've used some more tact, check.

Still, I love how most people jump on it without trying to check it out. Only one or two people asked for links...
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2004, 07:48:49 PM »

Quote from: "Fellow"
4. No link to the information was ever posted.
5. No link to the information was ever posted.


Fellow, I just want to comment on one thing you and some others are asking about.

How much of a magazine that came out *2 days* ago do you think you'll find posted on the free website?

You guys really do live in a dream world and need some business training.
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2004, 07:53:01 PM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"
Quote from: "Fellow"
4. No link to the information was ever posted.
5. No link to the information was ever posted.


Fellow, I just want to comment on one thing you and some others are asking about.

How much of a magazine that came out *2 days* ago do you think you'll find posted on the free website?

You guys really do live in a dream world and need some business training.


And how are we supposed to know it came out only 2 days ago?
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2004, 07:54:36 PM »

Quote from: "dandylife"
And how are we supposed to know it came out only 2 days ago?


Post your address and I'll find the nearest Barnes & Noble to where you live. ;-)
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2004, 08:00:14 PM »

And what dandylife just said, was basically the crux of the entire thing.

Ah well, I'm wiping my hands off this topic. I've already killed enough braincells for this idiocy. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go play in my dream world where everything makes sense and the magical unicorns prance merrily on grassy hills.
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2004, 02:16:21 AM »

ah, our first flame war smile

Tebunker, settle down.  Don't need to be so condensending about it.
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« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2004, 02:20:04 AM »

What the heck is up with the name calling?  Tebunker, chill out.

I was not impressed with what I saw of Doom 3 at E3 either.  I would have given it a 6 or so based on what I played, the demo in the MS  booth.  It wasn't even in the top 7 games in that booth.

XBN is the best Xbox magazine, hands down smile
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« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2004, 11:54:22 AM »

hey I realized I was way too beligerent(sp?) in my first post. Don't really know why I got so irritated, I edited out the "dipshits" because it was completely inappropriate.

But with the internet, once you're quoted you're screwed.

Eitherway I hope you all will accept my apologies for over-reacting to what amounts to really nothing important.
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« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2004, 12:17:47 PM »

It's cool.
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2004, 01:35:50 PM »

Quote
Errrrrrrrr,,,,,,,,,, an 80% for a storyless game?


Going back a bit, sometimes storyline just gets in the way of a fun time. When I want a deep storyline, I play an RPG. When I want to run around and blow shit up, I play a FPS.

I certainly didn't play Halo for its stellar storyline. Nor did I play the first two Dooms or two Quakes for theirs (I never played Q3 - shame on me). I can't think of any first person shooter that I've played who's storyline I actually cared about. The storyline certainly wasn't what made the original Serious Sam fun.  This also includes Metroid Prime - a very deep first person shooter. I was chasing some pirate or something to some planet, which gave me ample opportunity to blow stuff up.

Atmosphere, on the other hand, is always very huge in First Person Shooters. Metal of Honor: Frontline has the best atmosphere in any game I've ever played. The storyline, on the other hand, was just an opportunity to run around and blow stuff up. Yes, this one does have a lot of storyline. But it was (in my opinion, naturally) filler - next to the atmospheric action.

So basically, I don't feel that the lack of story in Doom 3 is that big a deal.

----

The lack of decent AI otoh, that kinda sucks. If this is a full priced game, then the multiplayer had better be the second coming.
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« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2004, 08:24:11 PM »

DragonFyre, that's a good remark there... You could say the same about Half-Life. People rave about its great storyline, but really it's just a tale of aliens vs government mock-up vs you. It's all in the set pieces, the atmosphere, and the way the player uncovers the story I think.

So I'd agree on the storytelling vs atmosphere debate.

On the other hand, Max Payne has a decent story, albeit pretty complicated (the sequel that is), and it does add to the game... hmmmmm. However, I guess in MP's case, it's not the story that draws you in, but the characters and your emotions towards them. In particular, Mona Sax.
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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2004, 02:06:09 AM »

Just in case anyone was still wondering here's the text from the magazine:


DOOM 3
Synopsis:
You're on Mars. Demon Aliens have teken over the space station. Kill them all, in the dark, with lots of guns.

Psychic Prediction:
This is interesting. Let me see. I expected to find more to do with money and the game to be a big moneymaker. This one is really weird. They may put some tricks in the game to make it more complex and compensate for its..I don't know. There might be some hidden levels or more than one way to get through this game. It seems like there might be a few optional ways to finish it. The review of the game, by the people.. it's not going to play out as well as people expected. Maybe there was too much expectation. I predict it will be good but not fabulous. If they've built in some twists, that's good. I don't know if technology has advanced enough. i think maybe the sales will be dissapointing.

Psychic's predicted score: 5/10

Hmm. Doesn't look or sound like a review. Sounds like the psychic was using tarot cards to predict the future of the game.

Eitherway I apologize again to the posters in the thread. I got upset with the original post and took it out on everyone. Sorry.
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"I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind amazing things will happen." - Conan O'Brien
kathode
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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2004, 07:56:51 PM »

Quote from: "Tebunker"

DOOM 3
Synopsis:
You're on Mars. Demon Aliens have teken over the space station. Kill them all, in the dark, with lots of guns.

Psychic Prediction:
This is interesting. Let me see. I expected to find more to do with money and the game to be a big moneymaker. This one is really weird. They may put some tricks in the game to make it more complex and compensate for its..I don't know. There might be some hidden levels or more than one way to get through this game. It seems like there might be a few optional ways to finish it. The review of the game, by the people.. it's not going to play out as well as people expected. Maybe there was too much expectation. I predict it will be good but not fabulous. If they've built in some twists, that's good. I don't know if technology has advanced enough. i think maybe the sales will be dissapointing.

Psychic's predicted score: 5/10
So this BS is what qualifies as someone getting "a pretty good look at doom"?  Please.

DD, maybe you should try and read some actual previews from reputable sites before you make yourself look silly.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2004, 10:24:40 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
So this BS is what qualifies as someone getting "a pretty good look at doom"?  Please.

DD, maybe you should try and read some before you make yourself look silly.


Uhhhhhhhhh,,,,,,,,, where does it say he didn't get a look at the game?

These id fanboyz, they just can't stand for a negative word to be said about the next id, plotless, storyless, 7-hour game that they'll gladly pony up $50 for only to hear id tell them 3 months later that the game should have only been considered a technical release to show the capabilities of the engine.
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DiamondDecision
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« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2004, 10:35:26 PM »

Quote from: "kathode"
So this BS is what qualifies as someone getting "a pretty good look at doom"?  Please.

DD, maybe you should try and read some actual previews from reputable sites before you make yourself look silly.


Hey Kathode, I'm going to save you a bunch of money.  Here's a link to a used version of Serious Sam for your Xbox from EB.

http://ebgames.com/ebx/product/228824.asp

Don't look at the graphics too hard and imagine you're on Mars.  Other than that, you've got Doom.  Mindless shooting without a plot and story.

:-)
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kathode
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« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2004, 12:01:55 AM »

Quote from: "DiamondDecision"

Uhhhhhhhhh,,,,,,,,, where does it say he didn't get a look at the game?
Where does it even begin to indicate that he did?  Note that the entire thing is prefaced by "Psychic Prediction."  Let's not even argue how you choose to define what makes one look or another "pretty good."  

Note also: I haven't spent money on an id product since Quake 2.  I'd say this qualifies me for exemption from the idiotic "Fanboy" argument, but given that you think a one paragraph poorly written ("the review of the game, by the people...") psychic prediction qualifies as a definitive in-depth review, I don't expect you to agree.
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