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Author Topic: Do current gen games look significantly worse on an HDTV?  (Read 1316 times)
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Dante Rising
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« on: April 23, 2006, 04:23:25 AM »

Forgive my ignorance but...


I recently purchased a new 30" widescreen Sony HDTV. I'm still waiting on my Xbox360 so I decided to unhook my PS2 from my battle hardened 19" Panasonic Tau and attach it to my new TV.

UGH. I tried playing Radiata Stories and Shadow Hearts:Covenant. Both games look SIGNIFICANTLY worse on my new set. It doesn't matter what screen mode I choose. Am I seeing all these added jaggies and bluriness because of the increased TV size? Does HDTV magnify the problems inherent in current gen games? Or am I doing something wrong?

If things look this poor on a 30" TV, I'd hate to see a PS2 on a really large TV.
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 04:38:18 AM »

Are you using Progressive Scan mode on your PS2? (not sure if those games support it or not)  That made a big difference with me...
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2006, 05:02:58 AM »

Yup, where possible. It made a slight difference, but the image still doesn't look as good as that seen on my standard old TV.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2006, 06:12:17 AM »

I recently bought a 32" Viewsonic LCD myself.  My 360 looks amazing on it.  But my Xbox and PS2 look much better on the old 20" CRT TV I used to use. , even in progressive scan.
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2006, 07:05:23 AM »

I have a 43" and most games look worse.  I've always assumed that the bigger screen size amplified all the jaggies and imperfections.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 11:21:18 AM »

Quote
I recently bought a 32" Viewsonic LCD myself. My 360 looks amazing on it. But my Xbox and PS2 look much better on the old 20" CRT TV I used to use. , even in progressive scan.


Glad to see its not just me and my TV. smile The degradation it very apparent. I have no idea how those of you with 40" and 50" HDTVs can stand the poor image.

I guess I misunderstood one of the features on my Sony. It has something called DRC (Digital Reality Creation) Multifunction. My manual states that this "provides four times the line density for quality sources, such as DVD, satellite and digital camcorders."

I mistakenly thought this line doubling negated the effects of the larger screen and super fine pitch tube.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2006, 11:39:00 AM »

Hmmm, sounds to me like you might have some setup issues.  You can definitely see a *huge* difference on large screens but by that I mean 40+".  On a 30-32" set it shouldn't be as apparent.  I use a a 32" HDTV in my game room/office and non-HD games actually look better on it than on my prior 2 gaming TVs (27" Wega and 32" Philips) which were SD only.  

Screen size certainly does have something to do with it though- that 20" TV probably hid a lot of the jaggies that are apparent on larger TVs but that is an issue with all sets, SD or HD.  

I will say that I've played both Covenant and Radiata Stories on my HDTV and both look great (especially Radiata since it supports progressive scan).  

And for the record, I'm a certified image quality whore since I paid upwards of $500 for a professional ISF calibration on my living room HDTV.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2006, 11:43:19 AM »

Also, is it LCD or CRT?  LCDs usually look significantly worse with non-HD content than a CRT does.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 02:12:23 PM »

It is a Sony KD-30XS955 CRT Television.  Several forums (AVS, for example) and a few review sites rated it as one of the very best, and probably last, series of great CRTs to be constructed by Sony.

Do I need to invest in a calibration disc? I was hoping to find a freeware one online, but I've been unsuccessful.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 02:37:53 PM »

Definitely pick up a calibration disk- it's essential for any HDTV.  I personally prefer Avia but Digital Video Essentials is fine too.

I'm sure it's a no brainer but I have to ask- you are using component cables right?
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 02:59:05 PM »

I mean I am going to ask the stupid question firt as I didn't see it in the original post, "What Kind of Cables are you using?"

I think it's safe to assume that on the 19 inch Tv you were using plain old RCAs, and then switched to good quality component cables for your HDTV, right?
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 03:47:36 PM »

Something to keep in mind : 480i = free Anti Aliasing.

Do you see why I'm not a graphics whore, but I hate cutting my eyes on the PS2's jaggies?
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 03:48:53 PM »

Quote from: "Dante Rising"
It is a Sony KD-30XS955 CRT Television.  Several forums (AVS, for example) and a few review sites rated it as one of the very best, and probably last, series of great CRTs to be constructed by Sony.

Do I need to invest in a calibration disc? I was hoping to find a freeware one online, but I've been unsuccessful.


Monster has a new one out. The thing with Avia is they give you some color calibration sheets (think of ye ol' "3d" glasses).
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 04:54:01 PM »

I recently did Avia and Digital Essentials, but most 360 games are way too dark (heck even TV is too dark now).
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 06:17:15 PM »

I'm using component cables from Monster.

My friend just brought over his Xbox360, and I went out and rented Oblivion. On the Xbox 360 I put the settings to 1080i, but on my television set the TV settings information screen shows that Oblivion is running in 480i.

Any idea on what am I doing wrong? There is no menu on my TV to change 480/720/1080 settings.  All it has is Screen Modes (Wide Zoom, Normal, Full, Zoom) and DRC modes (Interlaced, Progressive, Cinemotion)


Here are the TV specs:

=-------------------------------------------------

• Full HDTV (built-in ATSC tuner for over-the-air HD reception)

• DRC™ Digital Reality Creation™ Multi-function Circuitry analyzes a 480i NTSC image and creates a digital bit mapped pattern in real time. The original NTSC signal is mapped in real time, replaced with an HD representative, and then discarded. Because DRC™ processes video signals in real time, it creates an image with 4X the density of the original signal. Resolution is increased both vertically and horizontally.

• Hi-Scan 1080i™ Display accepts the full 1080 interlaced scanning lines (1080i) or 720 progressive scan (720p) from an external HDTV receiver or a compatible high definition digital satellite receiver. It also accepts 480 progressive (480p) scanning lines from compatible DVD video sources.

• SuperFine Pitch CRT provides better image detail with high definition sources. The Aperture Grill was improved by making the vertical slits a finer pitch that increases the number of slits by up to 65%(16 x 9 base). Also improved were the High Precision Deflection Yoke, Fine Focus Electron Gun and the inclusion of higher intensity Luminescent Phosphors. The result is a more detailed image for both moving and still images, higher resolution picture quality, and better edge detail.

• HD Detailer™ Wideband Video Amp provides greater detail on finer images, delivering the best possible image from high bandwidth sources.

• ClearEdge VM™ (Wideband Velocity Modulation Scanning) allows you to select levels to create better separation between an object and its background for clearer edges, greater picture depth and improved overall picture quality.

• ATSC Integrated Tuner allows the reception of local, off-air digital broadcasts providing the viewing of free, true high-definition network programming without the addition of a set top box or a monthly fee.

• Digital Cable Ready with CableCARD™ Slot A set of hardware specifications that are defined to include a removable security module, which separates the cable operator's proprietary conditional access system from the retail digital cable device, to enable portability of the host to other cable networks.

• HDMI Interface (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) – HDMI is the first industry-supported, uncompressed, all-digital audio/video interface. HDMI provides an interface between any audio/video source, such as a set-top box, DVD player, and A/V receiver and an audio and/or video monitor, such as a digital television (DTV).

• HDCP Interface (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) was developed to protect digital entertainment content across a DVI interface. It also serves as the security system for HDMI.

• CineMotion™ Reverse 3-2 Pulldown improves the display of video programs originally shot on 24 frames per second film preserving the integrity of the original film frames for more fluid motion and more fine detail.

• Memory Stick® Media Enhanced Playback (JPEG,MPEG1,MP3)

Specifications • Dimensions (WxHxD): 35 3/8" x 23 3/4" x 22 1/4" (898 x 604 x 564.5mm)
Weight: 154 lbs. (69.8kg)
Power Requirements: AC 120V 60Hz


• Inputs and Outputs:
Component Video Input (Y/PB/PR): 2 Rear
Composite Input: 1 Front/3 Rear
S-Video Input: (With Detection): 1 Front/2 Rear
Control S: 1 Rear
HDMI: 1 rear


• Tuner:
8 VSB
ATSC, NTSC
Clear QAM
Digital Cable


• Audio:
TruSurround® SRS® Audio (7.5W x 2 With 15W Sub)
Steady Sound® Automatic Volume Control With BBE® Audio Effect
Auto Mute Tuner
Auto SAP
Audio Output (Variable/Fixed)


• Video:
Dynamic Focus™ Circuitry
Dynamic Picture™ Circuitry
Trinitone® Color Temperature
ClearEdge VM™ (Wideband Velocity Modulation Scanning)
Vertical Aperture Compensation
Vertical Center Adjustment
3D Digital Comb Filter
Wide Modes: (Normal/Full/Zoom/Wide Zoom)
Auto Pedestal Clamp
Auto White Balance
High Voltage Regulator
HD Detailer™ Wideband Video Amplifier
NTSC Color System
ID1 Detection
Magnetic Quadruple Pole
Tilt Correction
Vertical Correction
Vertical Size Adjustment


• Convenience:
Auto Channel Program
Caption Vision (CC)
Channel Fix
Channel Skip/Add
Video Label
V Chip Parental Control
Speed Surf™ Channel Selection
Sleep Timer Function
Tilt Correction
Program Palette™ (Vivid/Movie/Standard/Sports) presets
On Screen Display (English/Spanish/French)
Channel Jump
Front Button Menu Control
Favorite Channel
Energy Star® Compliant
Clock/Timer Two Event
Antenna Level for DTV
PSIP Program Information
DTV Auto Add
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2006, 06:39:06 PM »

Okay, I figured out my problem with the 360. On the component cables there is a reallllly tiny switch that says "TV/HD"

It was toggled to TV. After switching it I'm getting 1080i.  PS2 still looks like complete garbage, however.

Quote
And for the record, I'm a certified image quality whore since I paid upwards of $500 for a professional ISF calibration on my living room HDTV.


Crap, Kevin Grey is insane! That's 3/4 the cost of my @#$# TV!   Do you counterfeit your own money to afford these extravagences?  One of my Star Wars DVDs has a calibration tool on it. Can I use that, or is it specifically for that disc?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2006, 07:01:16 PM »

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Crap, Kevin Grey is insane! That's 3/4 the cost of my @#$# TV! Do you counterfeit your own money to afford these extravagences? One of my Star Wars DVDs has a calibration tool on it. Can I use that, or is it specifically for that disc?


Well, in my defense, it was only 1/10 the cost of my TV so it seemed a very worthwhile investment.  It isn't something I recommend for anyone but videophiles like mysel though.

The Star Wars calibration will work in a pinch but isn't nearly as comprehensive (or user friendly) as a dedicated disk.  Colors, in particular, won't be nearly as accuracte since dedicated disks come with specific color filters to help you in the calibration.  But it is certainly better than nothing.
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 06:28:29 PM »

jaggies on a ps2 are fairly standard; the vid progging and the vidcard aren't actually designed to withstand the close scrutiny of hdtv (unless otherwise indicated by an hdtv resolution somewhere on the game box).

kh2, for instance (and Radiata Stories, the few times i played it on Jarrod's tv instead of in my own room on my pansy little 19" tv) is absolutely breathtaking in the FMVs (square's fmvs tend to be very hi-res), but has horrible jaggies during gameplay.
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 09:47:52 PM »

What's funny is that I don't notice the 'jaggies' on PS2 and up games. Personally, I think the fact that I 'only' own a 30' widescreen TV is the reason. The size of your tube (and how often you spend time playing/watching 720p and up resolution) has a lot to do with it, methinks.
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2006, 06:11:50 PM »

You guys tried playing a PS1 game on a component-connected PS2? Yeeech. (Working my way through FF7)
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2006, 02:32:21 PM »

The PS2 got better when I got my Composite Cable... better, still no HD biggrin
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2006, 12:34:53 AM »

Quote from: "ChaoZ"
You guys tried playing a PS1 game on a component-connected PS2? Yeeech. (Working my way through FF7)

But the 'improved texture switch' (or whatever it's called when you hit the system's options when you turn on the PS2 without anything loaded) makes a rather big difference in how things look overall. Your mileage may vary, and some games look a TON better with it on than others.
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