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Author Topic: Diablo III --Impressions start on page 36 --  (Read 92372 times)
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« Reply #720 on: February 08, 2012, 04:01:04 PM »

Did I say majority of gamers? I don't recall saying that. I said the people I play games with.

If you don't see my point, I don't really have the time to restate it in different words. smile
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:03:03 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #721 on: February 08, 2012, 04:08:23 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 08, 2012, 04:01:04 PM

Did I say majority of gamers? I don't recall saying that. I said the people I play games with.

If you don't see my point, I don't really have the time to restate it in different words. smile

You implied SC2 wasn't a huge success by saying that even though reviews were good, your friends don't like it (otherwise why even mention this?). 

The point is that Blizzard can have a huge hit without needing to innovate.  Here are the SC2 numbers of ranked players:
Europe: 997,046, Korea / Taiwan: 772,561, Southeast Asia: 147,810, Americas: 1,320,979, China: 324,141
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« Reply #722 on: February 08, 2012, 05:19:22 PM »

I found some time.

Skystride, methinks you have some sort of defense mechanism kicking in.

Not once did I say it was a bad game, nor did I refute the idea that it didn't deserve its review scores, nor did I say it didn't sell well - so the implicit idea isn't something I put out there - I simply stated that among the people that I regularly game with, the game just didn't hold attention like the original Starcraft. It wasn't the pinnacle of gaming in 2010 (at release) for this group of gamers, and it certainly isn't something that ended up in regular rotation.

It is likely the best modern RTS retail game, but my point in all of this is that DIABLO, not STARCRAFT, is less about competing with it's technical merits circa 2000, and more about today's expectations.

Since Diablo 2, the following games have come out and are considered its contemporaries:
( searched on gamerankings.com with the only filter being year and based on the category "Simulation: Action RPG"   which is where Diablo II sits, and I only list games at 80% and higher unless otherwise specified.
For reference, D2 was 88%.
Also, it and was reviewed before significant reviewing sites (IGN, etc) shifted to a lower range for scoring games. )

2000:
Vagrant Story - 91.97
Diablo II - 88.58

2001:    
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction - 85.94
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance - 84.43
Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel - 80.91

2002:
Freedom Force - 88.11
Kingdom Hearts - 86.56
Dungeon Siege - 85.86

2003:
Dark Cloud 2 - 88.58
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II - 82.79

2004:
Fable - 85.41
Champions of Norrath - 85.24
X-Men Legends - 83.36
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II - 81.19
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time - 81.01
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles - 80.73

2005:
Jade Empire - 89.56
Fable: The Lost Chapters - 83.48
X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse - 82.67
Dungeon Siege II - 80.85

2006:
Kingdom Hearts II - 87.46
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - 83.28
Titan Quest - 79.88% (hey, it rounds to 80% Tongue - actually I include it due to its Diablo-clone status)

2007:
Mass Effect - 91.15
Lunar Knights - 82.39
Odin Sphere - 81.98
Rogue Galaxy - 81.92
The Witcher - 81.59
Titan Quest: The Immortal Throne - 81.09


2008:
Fable II - 88.27
The World Ends With You - 87.92
Valkyria Chronicles - 87.36
Crisis Core - Final Fantasy VII - 82.50

2009:
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story - 90.94
Demon's Souls - 89.88
Torchlight - 84.97
Muramasa: The Demon Blade - 81.94
Monster Hunter Freedom Unite - 81.67
League of Legends - 79.13 (included due to the similarity in gameplay)

2010:
Mass Effect 2 - 95.66
Monster Hunter Tri - 85.00
Valkyria Chronicles II - 83.83
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - 82.50
Y's Seven - 80.87

2011:
Dark Souls - 88.56
This Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings - 88.03
Bastion - 87.33
Guardian Heroes - 84.76
Dungeon Siege III - 72.57 (included for diablo-clone status)
 
2012:
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning - 82.37

Now before you go crying foul because these games aren't all Diablo clones ... remember I said contemporaries, not just knock-offs. These games compete for the same interest - you're in an action game with RPG elements. Think of it this way: if someone says they think that Sunny D needs to consider its competition, they aren't just referring to Tang. There are a ton of other drinks out there, be they powdered or non, that on the whole provide the same experience. Instead of simulated fruit with a marginal-if-any true-fruit content, instead we're talking about running around "defeating" things, leveling up your toon, collect items and follow a (generally) cohesive story in a live action experience. It doesn't matter if you're hitting a mouse button or a controller button. It doesn't matter if you're more zoomed in or out, or if the art style is cell shaded, eastern, 3d, faux-3d or 2d. Modern, steampunk, ye olde Kingdom is also irrelevant to the point.

My comment is that the experiences we've come to expect from a game have advanced since 2000, and that Diablo III should (and likely will) be measured against today's games, and to answer the question from several pages ago (AGAIN), the beta was more than just load test - it was an opportunity to reassure a gaming community which has already been on the ick-end of "sequels from a decade ago" where the nostalgia wasn't enough to overcome the nausea of a bad game. No, Starcraft II wasn't the bad game, but comparing two different genres, one having a drought and the other having a healthy flow, means you're in the apples to oranges territory.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 05:58:09 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #723 on: February 08, 2012, 07:37:14 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 08, 2012, 01:08:09 AM

Wait, when is "persistent server" a big bullet point on a game?

To be clear, not just persistent, but included for free.  It may not be a flashy big "bullet point" on a game, but it is clearly a defining feature, along with the clever randomizing scheme, that sets Diablo 2 apart from the rest of the pack.  Diablo 2 is still widely played 10+ years after release, and that's largely because of the online community, and the way the game is set up from a persistent server standpoint.  The randomization, and random loot drops - in a controlled environment - form the basis of the online economy and ladder system, which again is something no other "loot and level" ARPG has ever successfully delivered.  And not for lack of trying. 

In case you didn't think it was a big deal, look at what Diablo 3 is doing to further expand the online economy with the new Auction House system.  Is it a major "bullet point"?  Maybe not, but is it a defining feature that no one else has come close to duplicate in over 10 years?  Sure thing.
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« Reply #724 on: February 08, 2012, 08:58:15 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 08, 2012, 07:37:14 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 08, 2012, 01:08:09 AM

Wait, when is "persistent server" a big bullet point on a game?

To be clear, not just persistent, but included for free.  It may not be a flashy big "bullet point" on a game, but it is clearly a defining feature, along with the clever randomizing scheme, that sets Diablo 2 apart from the rest of the pack.  Diablo 2 is still widely played 10+ years after release, and that's largely because of the online community, and the way the game is set up from a persistent server standpoint.  The randomization, and random loot drops - in a controlled environment - form the basis of the online economy and ladder system, which again is something no other "loot and level" ARPG has ever successfully delivered.  And not for lack of trying.  

In case you didn't think it was a big deal, look at what Diablo 3 is doing to further expand the online economy with the new Auction House system.  Is it a major "bullet point"?  Maybe not, but is it a defining feature that no one else has come close to duplicate in over 10 years?  Sure thing.

I look at Day Of Defeat:Source to argue that point. 6-7 years old, free server software.

50/page x 16 pages = 750+ games running RIGHT NOW. Are they full? No. But, its the game that keeps it going. There will be the die-hard fans. Hell, CS:Source has 50x251 pages available, with somewhere near 180 pages of empty servers. It's not even the end of the workday, so I expect there to be ebb and flow, but having a server-side owned and operated by the company is not a requirement.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud Battle.Net for their service, although the RealID crap kinda points out where that may not necessarily be the best thing for a gaming community. I have no problems with saying "Hey, this dev / pub is willing to back up their online experience by footing the cost of servers to host it!", but at the end of the day, that isn't going to pull a significant market segment from one game to another for that "Feature". It plays online? Cool. Is the experience fantastic? IN! How they do it is irrelevant to the end user. Battle.Net allows them to curtail cheating, cloning, fraud, etc, but they also have a real-money economy going here, and that is big. REALLY big, and it's why they need to build those servers... not to help out Diablo II's fanbase.

Would Battle.NET be able to justify running for Diablo II 12 years later, were it not for the juggernaut WoW that it hosts? Given that end-user purchases would be the only income, and the servers maintenance, upgrades, etc are a constant draw to the company?

Even the devil himself is laughing. icon_twisted

« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 09:00:28 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #725 on: February 08, 2012, 09:18:57 PM »

You bastards everytime I see a new post I think it's a release date but it's more babble!  mad
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« Reply #726 on: February 08, 2012, 09:28:46 PM »

naw, just fucking with leo.
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« Reply #727 on: February 08, 2012, 09:35:20 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 08, 2012, 09:28:46 PM

naw, just fucking with leo.

DAMN YOU  crybaby
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« Reply #728 on: February 10, 2012, 12:46:47 AM »

Q2 2012

Quote
We have implemented changes which will greatly improve the game experience and final release will live up to the highest expectations. We expect launch to be a big opportunity for Blizzard. More details will be announced in the coming weeks.

It'll be fine. We'll have some info real soon on skills and runes, a new patch, and we'll be cookin' on the road to Releaseville.
Can't we just enjoy eachothers company?

We've only ever said "early 2012". And we just decided we'd need until Q2 this week. Seems like the conference call was as good a place as any to announce that.
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« Reply #729 on: February 10, 2012, 01:13:54 AM »

So given their Q1 ends March 31st (at least I think I read that somewhere), end of Q2 would be June 30th?  So....  June 29th (12 year anniversary) is still on the table?
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« Reply #730 on: February 10, 2012, 01:19:16 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 10, 2012, 01:13:54 AM

So given their Q1 ends March 31st (at least I think I read that somewhere), end of Q2 would be June 30th?  So....  June 29th (12 year anniversary) is still on the table?

Yes, but let's hope April smile
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« Reply #731 on: February 10, 2012, 01:17:35 PM »

Given how extensively they've been tearing up the game in terms of changes, I'd guesttimate later in 2Q. But this is Blizzard. If you ask specifics about release dates, you'll just get Magic 8-Ball and Fortune Cookie Saying answers.  smirk
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« Reply #732 on: February 10, 2012, 05:13:30 PM »

You Will Die. We Promise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=U0F2wPZWdYk
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« Reply #733 on: February 10, 2012, 05:55:17 PM »

Can't wait.  Heck, I'd still be playing D2 if there was a reliable and stable modern resolution (and color) fix for it.
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« Reply #734 on: February 10, 2012, 06:20:36 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 10, 2012, 05:13:30 PM


Beta on normal is easier than the start of D1 and D2 normal.  I finished it with most of the classes without even knowing what key maps to health pots.
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« Reply #735 on: February 10, 2012, 06:41:19 PM »

Quote from: skystride on February 10, 2012, 06:20:36 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on February 10, 2012, 05:13:30 PM


Beta on normal is easier than the start of D1 and D2 normal.  I finished it with most of the classes without even knowing what key maps to health pots.

They say as much in the video.  Normal is farm mode, they said the game really doesn't start until nightmare.
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« Reply #736 on: February 10, 2012, 06:43:51 PM »

I found with two players, the challenge definitely ramps up, but not enough to warrant downing a potion. biggrin
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« Reply #737 on: February 11, 2012, 01:16:36 AM »

I don't think the "not having to drink a potion" thing is really fair since they changed the dynamic of the game to include health orbs so that you wouldn't have to drink potions.  It makes me wonder if the difficulty is just a matter of perception.  If they removed health Orbs but but made twice as many potions drop would people say it was harder or the same?
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« Reply #738 on: February 11, 2012, 03:16:04 AM »

I'm not complaining - I enjoy the fact that 90% of the clicking I'd have to do (picking up gold, potions, using potions) has been streamlined.

I was referring more to the fact that my health rarely-if-ever drops below 90%.

Having two people, and one not being present (TP to sell, for instance) means the monsters are going to present more challenge.
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« Reply #739 on: February 11, 2012, 04:00:29 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 08, 2012, 04:01:04 PM

Did I say majority of gamers? I don't recall saying that. I said the people I play games with.

If you don't see my point, I don't really have the time to restate it in different words. smile

I believe you said "it wasn't the mecca of gaming, save the rabid fanbase."       So yeah... you mentioned that it wasn't popular among your friends, but then you imply that it wasn't really popular except among Starcraft fanboys.   

This game was a smash sales hit in North America.   I'm not sure how you can ignore that kind of success.

Diablo ]I[ will be a smash hit world wide for several reasons, not the least of which are:

1.  Blizzard has spent a decade building a fan base to their games.   Not individual games, but anything they produce goes platinum overnight
2.  The Diablo game concept and mechanic is an electronic slot machine.   You kill until you hear the ping of a rare item dropping.   People love slot machines.   People love addiction.
3.  They have upped the ante (pun intended) on the slot machine concept by introducing real money into the equation.
4.  People love to parade cool rare stuff in front of others.    This makes the 'persistent server' concept crucial to the success of the product, just as it was for Diablo and Diablo 2.

Diablo ]I[ will be a smash hit.
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« Reply #740 on: February 11, 2012, 05:43:28 PM »

I have a beta key from Massively but can't see how to apply it to my account or use it.  Did anyone else who got one of those keys figure out how to use it?  Thanks.
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« Reply #741 on: February 11, 2012, 06:24:48 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on February 11, 2012, 04:00:29 PM

Diablo ]I[ will be a smash hit.

I'm sorry, the way you wrote that just makes it impossible to take anything you said seriously.  Tongue

(note, this was meant in lighthearted jest, hence the smilie)
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« Reply #742 on: February 12, 2012, 03:49:21 AM »


I saw someone else do it and thought it was cool.

In fact my entire post was just because I wanted to spell it that way.  slywink
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« Reply #743 on: February 12, 2012, 04:02:32 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on February 12, 2012, 03:49:21 AM


I saw someone else do it and thought it was cool.

In fact my entire post was just because I wanted to spell it that way.  slywink

DIABLO ]|[
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« Reply #744 on: February 12, 2012, 07:12:45 AM »

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msduncan

I did say mecca. It isn't. The game is the same as Starcraft. Look it up. Reviews rave about the game, and they all tend to follow a "same as before, excellent execution". It isn't revolutionary in the slightest, simply the best evolution in a genre that is practically a barren wasteland. I never said it didn't sell well, nor did I say it wasn't a good game, or well received.

Hooray! Game from 12 years ago! Which, oddly, is the same time frame from Diablo II to III (discounting Lord of Destruction from 2001).

Diablo III's competition isn't just from the clone games though- Action-RPG is pretty rife with worthwhile titles. See my earlier post for examples.
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« Reply #745 on: February 12, 2012, 03:27:32 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 12, 2012, 07:12:45 AM

Quote
msduncan

Diablo III's competition isn't just from the clone games though- Action-RPG is pretty rife with worthwhile titles. See my earlier post for examples.

Those aren't valid comparisons though...except for a handful of titles (the Dark Alliances, Dungeon Sieges, etc) there's an entire set of gamers that wouldn't buy, play or even touch the majority of games from the list.  Strip most of those games out and it's actually quite barren in comparison.  My wife is one of those gamers.  Except for maybe 4 titles in that list she wouldn't even think about most of those titles but is eagerly looking forward to D3.

Edit:  to clarify...I'm not saying D3 isn't an action RPG.  I'm saying there's a large group of people who are only interested in the much smaller sub-section of action rpgs that include D3 and there's very little competition in that much smaller sub-section.  In that regard then no, D3 doesn't have to innovate or compete against other more mainstream games like Skyrim or Witcher or Mass Effect. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 11:28:13 PM by ericb » Logged
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« Reply #746 on: February 12, 2012, 05:13:56 PM »

You mean to tell me that the "addictive slot" mechanism isn't present in games like Skyrim, or having unlocking skill trees and the like aren't found elsewhere?

The vehicles may be tuned differently, but the underlying game mechanic, and the appeal, are the same.

Harvesting, random loot drops, level up different char types... Diablo was VERY influential in today's action RPGs. Todays games, moreso than its last iteration (which is nevertheless important in comparison, but not its "only competition" as was the statement that had me responding to all of this), are just as important, and Diablo 3 would need to prove itself today against today's Action RPGs.
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« Reply #747 on: February 13, 2012, 09:53:09 PM »

I'm in agreement with ericb.  The other games Purge talks about are really in another sub-division class of game.  Can they be classified under action RPG?  Sure, if you want.  But are they in direct comparison and competition with the iconic randomized, loot and level, dungeon delving, online MP experience that is/was Diablo II?  Personally I don't think so.  The loot and action are much more primal to the game than they are in a Skyrim or Witcher, where story/characters are much more in the forefront.  No single loot drop is going to make me want to restart Skyrim from scratch just to build a character around, whereas in D2 it was commonplace.  The "loot and level" genre is really more a derivative of Rogue/Angband as it is other traditional RPG fare like BG or later DA, etc. - D2 refined it and made it in many ways even more addictive as well as accessible.  And in terms of online content, in some ways it is more like old school MUDs than new school RPGs.  After you ran through the main game, online was all about "runs" through different sections over and over again.  That's something the conventional story/world based RPGs are just not about.

For a game to really go head to head with Diablo 2/3, I would expect these things:

- Extensive, randomized loot system with character changing/evolving loot
- Extensive character customization
- Map randomization, repeatable content/levels
- 2.5D-ish point and click perspective (going full 3D would be acceptable) with the proper combat feel
- Full, free, persistent server, online MP support, secure trading of items

Games like Dungeon Siege, Titan Quest and Torchlight (along with a host of others) got the majority of this right, but failed to deliver the online aspect.  The devs from TQ even talked about wanting to do it but being unable to.  Even their new game won't have it.   Some games like Sacred and Divine Divinity chose to go a more traditional single player RPG route.  There have been a number of online F2P games (Dungeon Runners, Warrior something) that tried to capture the feeling, but simply fell short.  Darkspore had promise but missed the opportunity.  Dungeon Hunter is kind of close but also missing something in the feel.  Path of Exile is attempting to deliver all of this, but it remains to be seen if it will be good enough.  Interestingly the one game that I'd argue came the closest IMHO (and not really a surprise given the pedigree) was the original Hellgate London, and of course we all know how that turned out.  So for true, full-on competition, I'd still say there's no one that's done it all successfully in the past 12 years, and that's why D2 still stands as the mark to beat.  

This is in contrast to SC2, which had to compete against any number of very successful games in the RTS genre that delivered everything SC did and more.
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« Reply #748 on: February 14, 2012, 04:38:04 AM »

Quote from: ericb on February 12, 2012, 03:27:32 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 12, 2012, 07:12:45 AM

Quote
msduncan

Diablo III's competition isn't just from the clone games though- Action-RPG is pretty rife with worthwhile titles. See my earlier post for examples.

Those aren't valid comparisons though...except for a handful of titles (the Dark Alliances, Dungeon Sieges, etc) there's an entire set of gamers that wouldn't buy, play or even touch the majority of games from the list.  Strip most of those games out and it's actually quite barren in comparison.  My wife is one of those gamers.  Except for maybe 4 titles in that list she wouldn't even think about most of those titles but is eagerly looking forward to D3.

Edit:  to clarify...I'm not saying D3 isn't an action RPG.  I'm saying there's a large group of people who are only interested in the much smaller sub-section of action rpgs that include D3 and there's very little competition in that much smaller sub-section.  In that regard then no, D3 doesn't have to innovate or compete against other more mainstream games like Skyrim or Witcher or Mass Effect.  

Are those gamers enough to carry Diablo 3 to success? That subset of gamers, PLUS everyone who likes Action RPGs/other game genres are what makes up Diablo's target audience. If we were to venn this out, the circle that buys vs the circle that plays only those games would be vastly different in size. Tongue

SC2 is SC for the modern age. Nothing much has TRULY changed. Can they do that with Diablo 2? I don't think they can. If this game was Diablo 2.5, it would sell, but not enough to vault it into the same status that 2 got.

Also, the way you've built the list for your H2H, it actually looks more like this:

- Extensive, randomized loot system
- Character changing/evolving loot (please explain)
- Extensive character customization (I assume you mean leveling and skill progression - the customization of characters in D3 is pretty limited, but the specialization is deep)
- Map randomization
- Repeatable content/levels that allow item farming and level grinding
- 2.5D-ish 3rd person overhead point and click perspective  (so, in essence, only a Diablo clone)
- persistent servers
- online MP support
- secure trading of items
- free online access

There are more than just Diablo clones that meet a lot of those requirements, and they fall into RPG territory (and I'd say that the Action is better). Changing the camera angle in a movie doesn't change its genre or the movies it competes against for awards. I don't see, unless the genre is defined by the camera, any means by which to say that random dungeons of Oblivion and item drops are any less than Diablo. Sure, we don't get the Godly Plate of the Whale, but there is still an element of uncertainty as to what you're going to get.

I don't think the Elder Scrolls games are head-2-head material with Diablo. I just don't see how Diablo 2 is D3's ONLY competition (according to the original start of this sub-discussion).

This is coming from a HUGE Diablo fan, BTW. I've dropped more than 50 hours into the beta.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 04:42:07 AM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #749 on: February 14, 2012, 09:44:25 AM »

I too tend to agree with Rittchard, even though Purge makes some good points as well.

When trying to distill what features I'd deem necessary for a game to be considered a competitor to Diablo, I tend to think of the cooperative nature of Diablo. Because whenever I think back to my best Diablo 2-experiences, it's always about some good runs through the entire game with a couple of friends, and the nice class-combo's you could make. Ah, Sorceress/Lower Resistances Paladin, you were a match made in Heaven.

And I've never found this feeling in any other game thus far. Titan Quest came close, but was a bit too boring for a complete run-through.

So, that's what I'm looking for in a Diablo-clone. A game that stays fresh no matter how many times you complete it, and that I can play with my friends. Off course there are other reasons, but this would have to be a core-feature.
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« Reply #750 on: February 14, 2012, 01:05:41 PM »

I *will* agree that no clone has lived up to Diablo 2. Also, Torchlight isn't MP so if the cooperative / competitive nature of ninja loots is important then I suppose it also fits.

MMORPGs (Beginning with Ultima Online) meet most-if-not-all of your requirements, Rit. smile
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« Reply #751 on: February 14, 2012, 06:02:11 PM »

No game has quiet scratched the Diablo itch for me since D2.  So yeah, even if D3 was just D2 with a face lift, it would still be an immediate hit with me and I'm sure many others (not just some niche hardcore crowd that still play D2).  TQ was definitely the closest but it was far from perfect.

MMORPGs don't have one of the most important ingredient of Diablo:  fast paced arcadey combat.  Tera is trying to fill that gap though.  I tried the beta and found it interesting how literally they are trying to copy some of Diablo game mechanics (loot scatters on the ground, identify scroll).  Health globe drops in Tera are uncannily similar to D3 beta but I can't tell if it's just a coincidence or someone is copying someone else.
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« Reply #752 on: February 14, 2012, 06:32:20 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on February 08, 2012, 09:18:57 PM

You bastards everytime I see a new post I think it's a release date but it's more babble!  mad

Release dates



So long, dates! You're free now!
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« Reply #753 on: February 14, 2012, 06:43:56 PM »

We need some more women in the forum.

Then all this "argument" would look like agreement and mutual support.
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« Reply #754 on: February 14, 2012, 06:47:14 PM »

I think the thread title really needs to be changed to Diablo ]I[ or Diablo ]l[.
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« Reply #755 on: February 14, 2012, 06:54:15 PM »

nice one Pug!

The main thing about MMORPGs is of course most of them have monthly fees, so that used to be a major difference.  Nowadays with the F2P market growing, that's certainly changed.  The other difference (on top of what sky mentioned about combat) I'd say is the nature of the game and the way multiplayer works.  I want my Diablo-esque game to be extremely easy to group up in, either with friends or strangers.  I want to be able to jump in and out of a group at a moment's notice without consequence to myself or others (can't really do that if you've committed to a dungeon or whatever in an MMO).  I don't know if it absolutely has to be instanced, but it seems like that's the best way to work this type of game (using scaling to add difficulty), with a lobby of sorts for trading and organizing groups, and then instanced areas for adventure.  And lastly, having some form of randomization really helps for longevity when you presume people are going to run through the same areas ad infinitum (which again is not as common in MMORPGs).  It's absolutely amazing to me how I could have run certain spots in D2 literally hundreds of times, yet I never fully 100% memorized the different map patterns.  As a contrast in TQ after about 3 or 4 run throughs of a particular spot, I started expecting things to pop up exactly in certain spots, and the fixed maps started to become boring.  I think D3 they said would have less randomization, but clearly there is some, as is evident in the beta.
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« Reply #756 on: February 16, 2012, 10:15:13 PM »

From blizz:

Quote
We're currently in the process of preparing the next beta patch for release and wanted to provide all beta testers with a heads-up that a character wipe will be included. Please note that, as with previous character wipes, this wipe will also affect gold, items, followers, and artisans. (Beta Bucks will be reset, as well.)

We're hoping to release Beta Patch 13 before the weekend, but we don't yet have a precise ETA. As always, we'll provide more information as it becomes available, and patch notes will be posted here once the patch is live.

Thanks for your continued feedback and testing!
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« Reply #757 on: February 17, 2012, 02:13:45 AM »

NOOOOO!!!!!

Well, there goes those 50 hours.
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« Reply #758 on: February 17, 2012, 05:07:03 PM »

CE is back in stock at Amazon for pre-order. 

http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-III-Collectors-Pc/dp/B0050SZC5U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329498413&sr=8-2
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« Reply #759 on: February 18, 2012, 01:47:23 AM »

Patch this weekend

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To ensure that all systems and changes included in Beta Patch 13 are working properly, we've decided to take some extra time to continue internal testing. As a result, we will not be releasing Beta Patch 13 today. We will, however, be working through the weekend and look forward to delivering the patch on either Saturday or Sunday.

Thank you for your patience! Should any changes to this schedule occur, we'll be sure to provide an update in this thread.
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