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Author Topic: Diablo clones: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly :)  (Read 13529 times)
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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2008, 10:39:29 PM »

Cool, thanks.  I was debating between giving Sacred or TQ a try, but the variety of settings was making me lean toward TQ.  I think I will be Steaming it soon.
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« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2008, 01:44:35 PM »

I had a lot more fun with TQ than with Sacred.

I'm now on my first play through of Epic difficulty and am surprised that I'm still having fun.  I HATE replaying games and would have bet almost any amount of money that I would never play through even with a second character type, let alone through the same story with the same character on harder.  It's a blast.

Looking forward to playing with some of you guys.  It's nice that they throw in a couple extra bosses on Epic and a couple more on Legendary.  Got my first Legendary drop right off the bat in Epic and it is keeping me going.
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« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2008, 02:03:22 PM »

Diablo, the Point-And-Click Genre

In 1996, a stagnant PC RPG market was revitalized by Blizzard's Diablo, an action/RPG that used a point-and-click interface and offered gamers a free online service to play with others that maintained the same rules and gameplay.

Diablo's effect on the market was significant; it had many imitators and its style of combat went on to be used by many MMORPGs that came after.[citation needed] For many years afterwards, games that closely mimicked the Diablo formula were referred to as "Diablo clones." The definition of a Diablo clone is even vaguer than that of an action RPG, but typically such games have each player controlling a single character and have a strong focus on combat, with plot and character interaction kept to a minimum. In some examples, non-player characters have only one purpose—be it to buy or sell items or upgrade the player's abilities—or issue them with combat-centric quests. Such characters might only have dialogue relating to their function rather than providing small talk or rumors perhaps unrelated to actual gameplay elements. They also have few or no puzzles, with all problems instead having an action-based solution (such as breaking a wooden door open with an axe rather than having to find its key).

Blizzard later gave birth to a sequel, Diablo II in 2000, and it became an international sensation in America, Europe, and Asia, spawning even more clones all over the world for years to come.

Saturday June 28, 2008, Diablo III was officially announced after years of speculation of the game's existence. However, in true Blizzard fashion no release date was announced with the statement, "It will be released when it is done."

I'd say that Dungeon Siege was a very good Diablo clone and not much strategy was involved. Also, there was a sequel which was more strategy based.
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« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2008, 02:17:32 PM »

Quote from: Purge on July 14, 2008, 02:03:22 PM

Diablo, the Point-And-Click Genre

In 1996, a stagnant PC RPG market was revitalized by Blizzard's Diablo, an action/RPG that used a point-and-click interface and offered gamers a free online service to play with others that maintained the same rules and gameplay.

Diablo's effect on the market was significant; it had many imitators and its style of combat went on to be used by many MMORPGs that came after.[citation needed] For many years afterwards, games that closely mimicked the Diablo formula were referred to as "Diablo clones." The definition of a Diablo clone is even vaguer than that of an action RPG, but typically such games have each player controlling a single character and have a strong focus on combat, with plot and character interaction kept to a minimum. In some examples, non-player characters have only one purpose—be it to buy or sell items or upgrade the player's abilities—or issue them with combat-centric quests. Such characters might only have dialogue relating to their function rather than providing small talk or rumors perhaps unrelated to actual gameplay elements. They also have few or no puzzles, with all problems instead having an action-based solution (such as breaking a wooden door open with an axe rather than having to find its key).

Blizzard later gave birth to a sequel, Diablo II in 2000, and it became an international sensation in America, Europe, and Asia, spawning even more clones all over the world for years to come.

Saturday June 28, 2008, Diablo III was officially announced after years of speculation of the game's existence. However, in true Blizzard fashion no release date was announced with the statement, "It will be released when it is done."

I'd say that Dungeon Siege was a very good Diablo clone and not much strategy was involved. Also, there was a sequel which was more strategy based.

Except for the fact that it practically played itself.  You could set up your AI so that all you had to do for 80% of the game is simply be there to quaff potions when your health got low.   Not to mention it had possibly the worst ending I've ever seen in a video game.  After 20+ hours, you finally beat the last boss...and your reward is about a 1/2 paragraph of text on the screen that basically says, "Congratulations, now wait for the sequel".   At least take the time to do a cutscene for fuck's sake!!

Quote
I had a lot more fun with TQ than with Sacred.

I'm now on my first play through of Epic difficulty and am surprised that I'm still having fun.  I HATE replaying games and would have bet almost any amount of money that I would never play through even with a second character type, let alone through the same story with the same character on harder.  It's a blast.

Looking forward to playing with some of you guys.  It's nice that they throw in a couple extra bosses on Epic and a couple more on Legendary.  Got my first Legendary drop right off the bat in Epic and it is keeping me going.

I've started TQ a couple times.  The first time I got about midway through Act III, the most recent try has me midway through Act II.  It's certainly polished and plays well, but it never got to Diablo addiction levels for me.  Everything about it is so generic and cliche that I have a hard time keeping interest over the long haul.  It's not a bad game by any means, just...soulless (if that makes any sense).
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« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2008, 02:58:21 PM »

Gratch, I disagree and agree with you.

DS was fun to play (never played 2), and TQ is soulless and clichéd. The forum effect flung me into that one and I hate you all for it. Tongue
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« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2008, 03:56:42 PM »

TQ + expansion is by far my favorite "D2 clone" of the bunch. To the point to where it almost made a name for itself outside of the clone shadow. Now the big question for me is whether or not D3 will stand on it's own or will it just be considered another D2 clone.
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« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2008, 10:20:02 PM »

Quote from: fyedaddy on July 14, 2008, 03:56:42 PM

Now the big question for me is whether or not D3 will stand on it's own or will it just be considered another D2 clone.

BLASPHEMY!

Hehe. Actually now that I think about it, if all D3 turned out to be was a graphically updated D2 with a few extra features, I would be satisfied. A really good D2 clone sounds about right indeed.
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« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2008, 10:22:53 AM »

Quote from: Purge on July 14, 2008, 02:58:21 PM

Gratch, I disagree and agree with you.

DS was fun to play (never played 2), and TQ is soulless and clichéd. The forum effect flung me into that one and I hate you all for it. Tongue

Same here... The skills are great, the graphics are outstanding, but the actual combat-gameplay is lacking. There are only small groups of enemies, they die in a very generic kind-of-way, and there's nothing to spice it up. Really, how many cat people and goatmen can you kill? At least Diablo offered a great variety of encounters, often offering quite a lot of tactics as well. And it's slower, and I never found good stuff. Great idea to make ALL the armours look exactly the same, except for the unique ones you never find  icon_confused
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« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2008, 10:54:20 AM »

If you only fought goatmen and cat people, you didn't even get out of act I.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on July 15, 2008, 10:54:20 AM

If you only fought goatmen and cat people, you didn't even get out of act I.  Roll Eyes

I think he was just trying to emphasize the repetitive nature of the enemies.  I've played almost the entire game, and could stand to never see another goatman or cat girl for as long as I live.  Wading through what felt like thousands of them during the first act grew extremely tedious, and Act II and III don't really fare any better in that regard. 

I also completely agree about the lack of loot drops.  I remember playing for nearly 10 hours of the midgame using the exact same loot, simply because nothing better ever dropped.  For a game that focused mainly on new loot, it seemed extremely imbalanced.  D2's loot system was far more varied and balanced, and I would typically never the same stuff for more than a few hours. 
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2008, 12:06:25 PM »

Titan Quest was a very good Diablo clone, in my opinion, but it lacked several things to make it truly great.

I found the class system brilliant in theory, but less so in practice. Too many passive and relatively dull skills, and I never did find a combination that really suited me. I had most success with Dream/Warrior, but I couldn't find a "rogue" class that did what I wanted, and I tried several combos with Warrior/Rogue/Hunter.

The combat pace is WAY too slow initially, and never gets to the same level of intensity that Diablo 2 had almost from the get-go. It just had a more drone like feel in comparison with Diablo 2. Even active skills were relatively boring and I don't know, there was just something off with the responsiveness of the game when using skills.

The lack of a battle.net structure was probably the most severe shortcoming, and really limited the community feeling - as in there wasn't any.

But apart from those things, it was a VERY good clone - and to my mind shares the no. 2 spot with Hellgate for other reasons.
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« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2008, 04:37:36 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on July 15, 2008, 11:40:01 AM

Quote from: Harkonis on July 15, 2008, 10:54:20 AM

If you only fought goatmen and cat people, you didn't even get out of act I.  Roll Eyes
I think he was just trying to emphasize the repetitive nature of the enemies.   

That is indeed what I was trying to emphasize smile Mind you, I liked the game a lot, and did finish it, but it saddens me to see that titan quest could have been amazing, yet as it is, it was only 'good'. So, to summarize, more variety in enemies, better (and visually more distinctive) loot, and faster combat would have improved this game tenfold.

And that's the really odd thing. Why can't a developer get right, what an 8-year old game can do?
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« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2008, 05:06:13 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 07, 2008, 12:05:18 AM

Icarus "Diablo Fans Will Love This" Sanctuary of the Gods is sitting right at the top of the "Ugly" pile.  One of my earliest memories of getting burned by a blind purchase.
You weren't the only one!  ick.  I -hated- that game with a passion.
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« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2008, 03:06:54 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on July 15, 2008, 11:40:01 AM

I also completely agree about the lack of loot drops.  I remember playing for nearly 10 hours of the midgame using the exact same loot, simply because nothing better ever dropped.  For a game that focused mainly on new loot, it seemed extremely imbalanced.  D2's loot system was far more varied and balanced, and I would typically never the same stuff for more than a few hours.

i'm about 2/3 of the way through TQ now, and i've now found good enough armor that i doubt i'll need to change before the end of the game...been wearing the same green cuirass since early in the greek region (had 106 armor rating on my torso piece before level 10).  while i'm still stumbling across slightly stronger weapons on rare occassions, my primary weapon is a very nice bow that i've been using for quite a while because it came with a few bonuses that i improved on with my own upgrade.  at this point, i've picked up and sold so much worthless loot that i have over 3 million gold and absolutely nothing useful to buy.  i still have an odd compulsion to keep pushing forward though...
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« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2008, 04:17:46 PM »

I strangely, had the most fun playing through the easter egg area in TQ over and over and over. Something about it was just tremendously fun.
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« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2008, 04:26:40 PM »

Quote from: Dan_Theman on July 15, 2008, 05:06:13 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on July 07, 2008, 12:05:18 AM

Icarus "Diablo Fans Will Love This" Sanctuary of the Gods is sitting right at the top of the "Ugly" pile.  One of my earliest memories of getting burned by a blind purchase.
You weren't the only one!  ick.  I -hated- that game with a passion.
Thank you!  I don't know if your therapy sessions have been going as well as mine, but after ten years I think the recurring nightmares have started to ease up a little.
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« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2008, 05:52:37 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 16, 2008, 04:26:40 PM

Quote from: Dan_Theman on July 15, 2008, 05:06:13 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on July 07, 2008, 12:05:18 AM

Icarus "Diablo Fans Will Love This" Sanctuary of the Gods is sitting right at the top of the "Ugly" pile.  One of my earliest memories of getting burned by a blind purchase.
You weren't the only one!  ick.  I -hated- that game with a passion.
Thank you!  I don't know if your therapy sessions have been going as well as mine, but after ten years I think the recurring nightmares have started to ease up a little.

So, explain to me why the game sucked so much. I've forgotten the game entirely. Can't quite figure out why yet.
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« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2008, 03:21:50 AM »

just finished Titan Quest on 'normal' tonight...decent enough game, but i did feel like it was getting a little monotonous toward the end.  by the time i was halfway through Egypt i had most of the equipment that i used through to the end of the game thanks to a few lucky loot drops , and my Ranger (hunter/nature) was pretty much unstoppable up until the final battle with his bow and two feral wolf helpers.  the variation in enemies and scenery helped me push on to the end, but i can't see myself playing it again on the harder difficulties any time soon.  even if they do change up the enemies and loot quite a bit, it's still just more clicking on enemies for another 30 hours.

as for the ending, the final boss fight was pretty lame...one enemy that throws a few big attacks that can kill almost instantly, can leech your health and energy, and who has a ton of hit points is not my idea of fun.  there really wasn't any strategy involved other than using statues as cover and drinking somewhere around 50 greater health potions as i ran in circles to keep from getting hit.  i heard they changed the final battle with a patch because people complained it was too easy...would much rather have fought it the original way when you could actually weaken the onslaught a bit. 

i will admit that it was worth finishing just to hear Bang Camaro's Rock of Mages playing over the credits though
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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2008, 03:39:04 PM »

I have most and have played most of the games mentioned above.

I don't think that there really has been a game that has been a true "Diablo killer". Diablo IMO still holds a unique spot.

NOX has a totally different feel to it and a charm all its own. Good game.

Sacred has a large detailed world with a wonderful mix of gaming environments. ie; plains, deserts, snow, volcanic lands,
forests, cities, towns, castles, caves, underworld, awesome. Characters are very well done too. Good game. Cam control was ok but could have been better. You got to ride horses too. This was kind of a new thing at the time.

Titan's Quest both original and sequel did a lot of things right. Great characters amazing detailed environments.
Not having total control of camera bugged me, but still a great game.

Loki, not too bad but locals seems too stretched out. Camera sometimes too limited to see who shooting you.

Divine Divinity, graphics very gravelly looking, and skewed camera showed annoying perspective flaws at times.
Game also seemed slow. Still had some good moments. Much better than its successor.IMO.

Darkstone, fun game at the time, kind of dated now.

Halls of the Dead, very different graphically but also quite fun. Pretty rare to find though.

Silverfall, liked some aspects of it, ie: matchlock rifles, but very difficult to find you way around due to poor mapping device.

Revanent, graphics like Halls of the Dead. Main character came across as a jerk most of the time.
If you like playing a jerk was a fun game.

Dungeon Siege both 1 and 2, loved the expansive worlds and had a lot of fun with them for a while.

Diablo was the first though, and as such has that special place....


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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2008, 04:05:17 PM »

Quote from: disarm on July 27, 2008, 03:21:50 AM

just finished Titan Quest on 'normal' tonight...decent enough game, but i did feel like it was getting a little monotonous toward the end.  by the time i was halfway through Egypt i had most of the equipment that i used through to the end of the game thanks to a few lucky loot drops , and my Ranger (hunter/nature) was pretty much unstoppable up until the final battle with his bow and two feral wolf helpers.  the variation in enemies and scenery helped me push on to the end, but i can't see myself playing it again on the harder difficulties any time soon.  even if they do change up the enemies and loot quite a bit, it's still just more clicking on enemies for another 30 hours.

as for the ending, the final boss fight was pretty lame...one enemy that throws a few big attacks that can kill almost instantly, can leech your health and energy, and who has a ton of hit points is not my idea of fun.  there really wasn't any strategy involved other than using statues as cover and drinking somewhere around 50 greater health potions as i ran in circles to keep from getting hit.  i heard they changed the final battle with a patch because people complained it was too easy...would much rather have fought it the original way when you could actually weaken the onslaught a bit. 

i will admit that it was worth finishing just to hear Bang Camaro's Rock of Mages playing over the credits though

Sounds like you don't have the expansion.  IMO the game gets drastically better in Act IV and then again through epic.  The biggest downpoint of each run through is always the boss of the original game.
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« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2008, 11:55:06 PM »

Vagrant Story is wicked fun....you can play that and Diablo on your PSP which is nice
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« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2008, 01:38:15 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on July 28, 2008, 04:05:17 PM

Sounds like you don't have the expansion.  IMO the game gets drastically better in Act IV and then again through epic.  The biggest downpoint of each run through is always the boss of the original game.

correct you are, sir...never bothered to pick it up considering it took me two years just to get through the original game.  i guess i just need a little more interesting storytelling and interactivity beyond clicking on enemies to hold my interest.  maybe i'll go back and play Icewind Dale again the next time i get the itch for a little dungeon crawl icon_cool
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« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2008, 02:49:20 PM »

I recently bought both games in a bundle for $20 from direct2drive. Well worth it to me.
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