http://gamingtrend.com
July 28, 2014, 03:00:37 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Dean Takahashi "Sony pleads with Third Parties not to abandon PS3"  (Read 4501 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tebunker
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3480


Ask How, Ask Now, Ask me


View Profile
« on: October 20, 2007, 04:01:29 AM »

 thumbsdown

Oh yeah, Samoflage, Turtle and a couple others, this isn't a Sony bash thread -- When I read this on Dean's blog I was pretty upset, and felt like it HAS to be shared here.


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/10/deans_take_on_npd_numbers_for_september.html

Quote
One piece of news that came out this week was that Sony pleaded with third-party developers not to abandon its struggling platform. That change in attitude is a marked difference compared to the arrogance of past years. The argument is that the PS 3 will show its strength as developers learn how to make games for it. But developers know they can staff four or five Wii teams with the same number of people it takes to make one PS 3 game. We may have a glut of Wii games soon, but thatís not as bad as not having enough games on the PS 3.

That sucks. Dean is very respectful, but I have an expensive investment in my PS3 with the thought that game would be coming, but I really don't want to hear them pleading for developers not to abandon the system. One of the main reasons I don't want them abandon the system completely for the Wii is that the majority of devs have yet to anything great with the Wii, and I'd rather have a couple of great games than piles of asshat mini-game collections.

Eitherway you cut it, it's bad news. If it's actually ture, as Dean seems iffy on his sources...
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 04:06:56 AM by Tebunker » Logged

"I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind amazing things will happen." - Conan O'Brien
th'FOOL
Executive Producer and Editor-At-Large
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4999


Never whistle while you're pissing


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 04:12:26 AM »

I'm sorry, but to think this implies that all development for the wii will consist of "piles of asshat mini-game collections" is very myopic, and you could very easily say that the majority of devs have yet to do anything great on the PS3.  In fact, there are many more good games right now for the Wii than the PS3.  What expanded development on the Wii will more likely yield is a much more fleshed out library of games, going beyond just the obvious minigame style that has become far too prevalent in the first year.

Right now development for the PS3 cost the most, and devs are rightfully concerned that their investment may yield little return.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 04:14:11 AM by th'FOOL » Logged

Mike Dunn
Executive Producer & Managing Editor, GamingTrend
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9313



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 04:34:25 AM »

Actually, development will likely cost the same if the PS3 is developed on at the lead platform.  The key is, why would they do so if it's the lowest selling system on the market?  It's not more difficult to program for, it's just different, but it costs time and money to learn it, and it's different enough from the usual PC architecture, unlike the 360 which is closer to the multi-core CPUs out on the market today.

I'm still of the mind that while 2007 goes clearly to the 360, 2008 will go a lot smoother for Sony now that the system is at the $400 price point, and it'll get out some of its bigger exclusives.  We'll also likely see announcements for something like God of War 3.  Until that time however, we'll probably only get ports from 3rd party developers, if they even bother with ports.  Sony knows its on its own for the most part and is investing heavily in exclusives, which is likely costing them a fortune.

The big question right now with the Wii is whether those large system sales will translate into good sales of non-minigame "hardcore" third party titles.  It's very clear that because of the Wii's numbers many publishers and developers are interested in developing for it.  Simply put, large system sales means people develop for your console, simply because they can't ignore that potential market.  The problem is, a lot of those system sales come from people who don't play anything other than Wii sports or very casual games.  On the other hand, the potential market is still so big and the development costs are so low.

For example, Capcom's Monster Hunter 3 is going to the Wii because the graphical and gameplay expectations on the system are so low.  They can practically reuse all the PS2 and PSP art assets, update the gameplay to use the motion control, and add a 3 to the name and it's a cheap sequel.

If Sony did plead, well good for them.  They need to hire a good PR person, and actually give him the power to silence certain people in the company.  I mean seriously, Sony execs just need to shut the hell up and keep working on getting games.

Lastly, these were just the US sales numbers, I suspect the numbers will be slightly better for Sony in other areas including Japan and Europe.  Not great, but not so doom and gloom here in the states.  ALso included below is the sales charts for the PS3 aligned by launch and months after launch.  It shows that the PS3 is doing equally as well as the 360 did one year at market.  Not bad for a system that cost more.

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&align=1
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 04:40:21 AM by Turtle » Logged
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 05:27:14 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 20, 2007, 04:34:25 AM

Actually, development will likely cost the same if the PS3 is developed on at the lead platform.  The key is, why would they do so if it's the lowest selling system on the market?  It's not more difficult to program for, it's just different, but it costs time and money to learn it, and it's different enough from the usual PC architecture, unlike the 360 which is closer to the multi-core CPUs out on the market today.

Development on the Wii will always be cheaper than development on the PS3.   It's absolutely more difficult to code for an entirely new multi-proc architecture, particularly one that has CPUs with asymmetric capabilities.  Numerous developers have already shifted product development with the explicit goal of reducing dev costs - Monster Hunter is just the most recent example.

Certainly the Wii's market share makes it easy for devs to choose the platform, regardless of the low attach rate.  One other issue is dev team expertise:  Moving from PS2 development to Wii development doesn't tax a team like moving to the 360 or PS3.  AAA development is expensive, and many smaller companies can't afford to staff multi-year projects where they have to make a huge leap forward in art/physics/whatever costs.  A CTO friend of mine at a local game company is relieved that his guys don't have to go PS3 to make money.  They're still developing PS2 games alongside their Wii projects.  These guys aren't slouches, but that's where the market opportunity is, and they can ship a game that doesn't need to look like Gears of War.

The Wii will  be the platform of choice for all the niche developers out there, and the major companies will build for it because they'll want to tap into the market share.  The 360 will continue be the primary target for "next gen" games - both because of existing market share (and growth), and because it's got better dev support and middleware (with XNA, etc).  No one is going to develop primarily on the PS3 unless they're paid to do so by Sony.  If they can port reasonably inexpensively, they will.  But why spend more money developing for a platform with the fewest customers and the highest price?  It's all just simple economics.
Logged
Kevin Grey
Global Moderator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13976


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2007, 06:29:29 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 20, 2007, 04:34:25 AM

For example, Capcom's Monster Hunter 3 is going to the Wii because the graphical and gameplay expectations on the system are so low.  They can practically reuse all the PS2 and PSP art assets, update the gameplay to use the motion control, and add a 3 to the name and it's a cheap sequel.

Um, yeah.  Interesting spin.  Of course it's much more important that the Wii is a actually a viable console in Japan while the PS3 currently isn't and Monster Hunter is too important to Capcom to waste on the PS3.  That the game will be quicker and cheaper to develop by putting it on Wii is just the icing on the cake. 
Logged
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9313



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2007, 07:22:23 AM »

Spin?  It's common sense.  Do you realize how many art assets are in Monster Hunter?  They reused a ton for monster hunter 2, and the portable versions.  You can call it spin all you want but I was agreeing with you.  It makes perfect business sense to put it on the Wii.  Capcom is a business that isn't tied to a platform, if they were anti-ps3 they'd have put a next gen graphics Monster Hunter on the 360.  Instead, they reuse all that art content on the Wii.  What my argument was that Monster Hunter 3 wasn't put on the PS3 not because it's a bad system, heck, it'd probably sell PS3s if it went exclusive.  The key is that they've spend less and have a more sure thing on the Wii.

Brendon, you can easily say that now, but come 2008, things could very well change.  I think it's foolish to call things over when Sony doesn't have any of its big titles out.  And for once I actually agree with you.  No 3rd party devs/publishers are going to make exclusives for the PS3 right now because its numbers aren't as good, not unless Sony pays them, which they have been.  It was probably both a desire to not compete with Halo 3 and having developed on PS3 lead that allowed Sony to pay for the Haze exclusive.  The reason why the 360 got exclusive for its first year was that it was one year early to market and better dev kits.  Sony isn't blind to the fact that their system is behind in the games department and have reacted.

Can it save 2007?  Maybe, the effect of the $400 SKU, a few potentially good exclusives like Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, and Eye of Judgment this year, along with the many multiplatform games coming out this holiday really could revitalize the PS3 software sales this year and get publishers and developers taking notice.  But critical to the PS3 is what's coming in 2008 including well known Sony exclusives.  We'll get God of War 3 and Killzone 2, Jak and Daxter sequel, along with some other new IPs and perhaps some unexpected sequels to Sony IPs.

I'm sure MS will have its own stuff to show, and you know what?  I'll probably be buying them assuming my 360 hasn't broken down again.  But the key here is that so will Sony and people will take notice of good games regardless of system.
Logged
metallicorphan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 16378



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2007, 09:32:04 AM »

wow,this sounds like SONY are very desperate...before the PS3 was released,i witness a very smug company,who were full of themselves and their future console,who were certain whatever they put out the public would buy....here it sounds like they are finally humbled

people on the PS3 forums are already talking about the PS3 being SONYs last console

to be honest i feel 2007 is dead for them,heavenly sword made very little if any difference and ratchet and uncharted may bring a tad of interest,but nothing major IMO,of course i think the sales will rise this month and next because of price cut and xmas,but nothing that will really pull it out of the waters


...around April(or the month surrounding it) will see the best month for PS3...HOME,GTA4,MGS4,maybe even killzone 2...after all these games come out(FF13 prolly isnt due 'til 2009)i will wait to see what the PS3s reception is like then...if after they come out and the console slumps back down...then i will feel the same way that there wont be a playstation 4,right now though i cant see SONY not being in the console market(its not like SONY will do a SEGA and only do games)



just out of interest,how has this first year been for the PS3 compared to the first year of the SEGA dreamcast?<<if anyone knows
Logged

Manchester United Premier League Champions 2013!!

Xbox LIVE:Metallicorphan
Wii:8565 1513 0206 1960
PSN:Metallicorphan
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9313



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2007, 10:40:20 AM »

Wouldn't be surprised if it was just as poor.  The main difference, as I keep stating, is that Sony is backed not just by its gaming business.  Just like MS they have many other divisions to draw money from and boy have they been drawing from them.  The IPO of Sony's insurance division is an indicator of what they've had to, and are willing to do, to keep the PS3 competitive.

Can you imagine the console business not having a big competitor?  Both MS and Sony have done things that they would never have done, or would have taken forever to do had it not been for the competition.

Sadly, Killzone 2 isn't likely to show up until mid to late 2008.  I didn't realize that stuff was coming in April though.  Is that when firmware 2.0 is releasing or will we get that sooner?
Logged
Blackjack
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 10808



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2007, 01:00:11 PM »

I'm a Sony fan (I don't have a PS3, but I've been buying PSP games like candy this year  icon_smile), but I think it's sort of a Catch 22: You can't really ask publishers to bet their money on a system with such a small playerbase, but even with the price cuts, the PS3's not going to sell like hotcakes until it has some good games unique to the system (and alas, it certainly doesn't look like Lair and Heavenly Sword are the System Sellers fans hoped they'd be).

MGS4, LittleBigPlanet and Killzone 2 will help, but I doubt any of those by itself can boost PS3 sales into the stratosphere the way Halo 3 has (whether you think Halo 3 is overhyped or not, its effect on XBox360 sales has been amazing). If somehow those games prove as relatively disappointing as Lair and Heavenly Sword (being touted as "system seller" pre-release seems like some sort of curse), then I don't know where the PS3's cavalry is going to come from. In that case, I'll hope Guerilla returns to PSP development so I can see a Killzone: Liberation sequel.  drool icon_biggrin

fwiw, I remain on the sidelines in terms of next-gen consoles, content with PSP and PC gaming for now, so I don't really speak from ownership of any of that stuff at this point.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 01:02:43 PM by Blackjack » Logged

Playing
PC
-Marvel Heroes
tripwire
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2007, 02:08:57 PM »

I see that chart again with Japan included to show the "same" growth in their life cycles.

Take Japan out of the equation, then look at it again.
Logged
Farscry
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4001



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2007, 02:13:34 PM »

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:08:57 PM

I see that chart again with Japan included to show the "same" growth in their life cycles.

Take Japan out of the equation, then look at it again.


Japan is wholly relevant.
Logged

Purge - You have unlocked an Achievement!
You are now of the rank reprobate
wonderpug
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11251


hmm...


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2007, 02:17:33 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on October 20, 2007, 02:13:34 PM

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:08:57 PM

I see that chart again with Japan included to show the "same" growth in their life cycles.

Take Japan out of the equation, then look at it again.


Japan is wholly relevant.

But even if you do take Japan out of the equation, which the chart allows you to do, the PS3 isn't that far behind the 360's pace.  The big test will be whether they can get a Christmas spike like what I assume is causing the big 360 spike in week 52.  Combined with the less expensive new 40GB system, if the PS3 could've gotten Grand Theft Auto or some other huge title to itself for November I think it would've easily been able to keep up with that 360 spike.
Logged
tripwire
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2007, 02:21:40 PM »

I'd say about 33% more sales is more than just a little far behind.
Logged
tripwire
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2007, 02:26:19 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on October 20, 2007, 02:13:34 PM

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:08:57 PM

I see that chart again with Japan included to show the "same" growth in their life cycles.

Take Japan out of the equation, then look at it again.


Japan is wholly relevant.

Why would it be?

Japan will never buy into MS, everyone knew that before the console was even released there. NA is where the market is open to any and all. Can't say the same for Japan.
Logged
wonderpug
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11251


hmm...


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2007, 02:37:06 PM »

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:26:19 PM

Quote from: Farscry on October 20, 2007, 02:13:34 PM

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:08:57 PM

I see that chart again with Japan included to show the "same" growth in their life cycles.

Take Japan out of the equation, then look at it again.


Japan is wholly relevant.

Why would it be?

Japan will never buy into MS, everyone knew that before the console was even released there. NA is where the market is open to any and all. Can't say the same for Japan.

If MS sells 99 in America and 1 in Japan, and Sony sells 60 in America in and 50 in Japan, who just won?

I guess it's not that relevant if you're trying to look at which company will "win" in North America, but if you're looking at their worldwide success then it's probably important to look at sales in the rest of the world.
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2007, 02:51:14 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on October 20, 2007, 02:37:06 PM

If MS sells 99 in America and 1 in Japan, and Sony sells 60 in America in and 50 in Japan, who just won?

I guess it's not that relevant if you're trying to look at which company will "win" in North America, but if you're looking at their worldwide success then it's probably important to look at sales in the rest of the world.

bah, we don't care about the rest of the world!  Insanity?  THIS IS AMERICA!!!!
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
tripwire
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2007, 02:52:40 PM »

Sony dominated NA with the PS2 last gen, now they're not even close.

That's a huge problem. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be dropping prices rapidly within the first year of existence, and/or begging 3rd party devs to not abandon them.

I doubt that having Japan as their bread and butter for sales is what matters to them the most. It's a market that they already knew, like everyone else in the gaming world, that MS had no shot against them.
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2007, 02:59:53 PM »

Sony's newest move to raise money.... interesting.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
unbreakable
Guest
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2007, 04:32:34 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 20, 2007, 02:51:14 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on October 20, 2007, 02:37:06 PM

If MS sells 99 in America and 1 in Japan, and Sony sells 60 in America in and 50 in Japan, who just won?

I guess it's not that relevant if you're trying to look at which company will "win" in North America, but if you're looking at their worldwide success then it's probably important to look at sales in the rest of the world.

bah, we don't care about the rest of the world!  Insanity?  THIS IS AMERICA!!!!

I don't see why that attitude won't work.  After all, Nintendo and Sony never focused on winning anything other than the Japan market.  Everything else was just gravy.
Logged
pingwrx
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1211


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2007, 06:58:26 PM »

I't seems like all the pro Sony supporters say wait until the good games hit in 2008 well what if they turn out like Lair and Heavenly sword and bomb. I've been itching to purchase a PS3 but with very few good games it would just collect dust.
Logged

XBL gamertag: pingwrx
PS3-PS4 pingwrx
Daehawk
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11755



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2007, 07:25:54 PM »

Maybe they should up the cost of games by $25 each and just give the PS3 away.
Logged

---------------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.

Check my trader rating. Im 22+ and zero negs. Trade with me! smile
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9313



View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2007, 08:54:08 PM »

Quote from: pingwrx on October 20, 2007, 06:58:26 PM

I't seems like all the pro Sony supporters say wait until the good games hit in 2008 well what if they turn out like Lair and Heavenly sword and bomb. I've been itching to purchase a PS3 but with very few good games it would just collect dust.

Well, for one, we've seen long gameplay footage of a few of the big 2008 exclusives, and they look good.  We've seen long gameplay videos of Little Big Planet, Killzone 2, MGS4, and I forget what else.  Then there's the potentially good 2007 titles like Uncharted, Eye of Judgment, and Ratchet and Clank.  Little Big Planet looks good and they've only shown us a portion of the game, not to mention the content for the game will continually expand, and customization options are through the roof.  For Killzone 2 we've seen developers and game journalists play through almost an entire mission including one miniboss battle, that's a good enough chunk of time to get a feel for the game.  MGS4 we've seen both the single-player gameplay and multiplayer.  For Uncharted, we've also got some long gameplay videos, and I've actually gotten hands on play, of course the length issue could show up again but we'll have to see.  Eye of Judgment will always be a niche title, fun if you're into card games, but a great use of the camera for something other than games where you wave you hand at the camera.  Ratchet and Clank there's a demo of and that's been getting good comments, it's not an amazing change from original R&C games besides the HD graphics, but it has the solid gameplay of the series.

Heavenly Sword is a good game marred only by short length, so you'll get a day or week worth of entertainment by renting it.  Lair was a big a disappointment, but not as bad as the media let on.  I think it was mainly a reaction to the forced motion controls that made reviewers give it scores under 7.  Otherwise it's well in the 7 range, which isn't great, but worth a try to see if it appeals to you.

Yes, they could all turn out to be duds, but they could also be huge hits or just solid titles that you'll enjoy for a long time.  The key is to not count out the system when you see those games released and they turn out good.  That's the whole point.

Then besides the exclusives there's the many more multiplatform games coming, which won't matter as much if you also have a 360.  But, at the same time, some of these multiplatform games have little edges on the PS3.  Namely no fee to play online, Burnout will have its drop in multiplayer, UT3 is going to have some robust mod and map support, and even achievements (if you're into that) will be available with trophies.

People say Sony's dead, Sony should kill the PS3, the PS3 killed my dog, etc...  But I'm saying it's still too early to tell.  Sure, don't buy a PS3 now, but when you see those games released and they turn out good?  Why not buy if the system has games you want to play and works really well, and is finally in a price range that you can afford?  And I'm not just talking about just one game that gets you interested, there's more games than listed that'll come out in 2008.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 08:59:41 PM by Turtle » Logged
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2007, 09:15:19 PM »

Turtle, stop speculating man. You have no idea how games are going to turn out from 15 minute videos on gametrailers, and if you think the "only" thing wrong with Heavenly Sword was the length then you are being myopic purely for the sake of the line in the sand you have so obviously (and somewhat inexplicably) drawn here. It's fine thinking people are unfairly picking on the PS3 and all that, but you are grasping at all corners of the air for arguments for why its not a failure. Instead of sounding well reasoned or convincing, it comes off as alarmingly apologist. Yes, the PS3 could somehow defy all odds and become the leading console of this generation. Yes, it could reverse the staggering failure that it appears to be-but until any of that happens you are arguing against the objective facts that are there for everyone to see right now.
Logged
Turtle
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 9313



View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2007, 09:52:06 PM »

And you're arguing with subjective opinions too.  All this talk about how Sony should just give up the generation, etc...  How is that not just as subjective?

And frankly these games can turn out to be quite good, do you deny that?  I recall the second biggest argument (besides price) that many people leveraged against the PS3 was its lack of games.  So you're saying that if the PS3 deals with that issue it's still a failure, because it just is?

If you'd read my entire post I said to wait on buying a PS3 until those games come out and if they turn out to be good.  And yes, I do think the only thing wrong with Heavenly Sword was the length, many others would agree with me.  You may find other things wrong with it, but I was quite happy with the game save for it's length.

Just as you see me as someone grasping at all corners in defense of the PS3.  I see you, and others here, grasping at all corners for things to confirm your idea that the PS3 is a complete failure.  The PS3 certainly isn't some wild success like the Wii is right now, but it's way too early to call it game over.  Especially when the lineup this holiday season is solid.
Logged
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2007, 10:12:00 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 20, 2007, 09:52:06 PM

Just as you see me as someone grasping at all corners in defense of the PS3.  I see you, and others here, grasping at all corners for things to confirm your idea that the PS3 is a complete failure. 

Here's an easy question:  Do you think PS3 sales have met Sony's expectations?  If not, by what margin have they failed to meet Sony's expectations?

By any reasonable objective measurement (# of units sold, # of developers producing content, price consistency, etc), the PS3 is a failure.  It's conceivable that their current mad rush will make them a little less of a failure, but they're never going to make it out of third place this generation.  That may not matter as much to them if it succeeds as a trojan horse at foisting Blu-Ray off onto the world, but that remains to be seen.
Logged
semiconscious
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4416



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2007, 10:22:38 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 20, 2007, 10:12:00 PM

Quote from: Turtle on October 20, 2007, 09:52:06 PM

Just as you see me as someone grasping at all corners in defense of the PS3.  I see you, and others here, grasping at all corners for things to confirm your idea that the PS3 is a complete failure.

Here's an easy question:  Do you think PS3 sales have met Sony's expectations?  If not, by what margin have they failed to meet Sony's expectations?

By any reasonable objective measurement (# of units sold, # of developers producing content, price consistency, etc), the PS3 is a failure.  It's conceivable that their current mad rush will make them a little less of a failure, but they're never going to make it out of third place this generation.  That may not matter as much to them if it succeeds as a trojan horse at foisting Blu-Ray off onto the world, but that remains to be seen.

not including durability, obviously slywink ...
Logged

"... i'm not against some 'monkey catching'... but i'd rather be collecting pants..."
- snake, 'snake vs monkey' (mgs3:se)
th'FOOL
Executive Producer and Editor-At-Large
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4999


Never whistle while you're pissing


View Profile WWW
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2007, 12:14:23 AM »

I don't know if I would call it a failure just yet.  Sure, it is underperforming right now, but most consoles do the first year of their life.

Console sales are about neck and neck with the 360's during this stage of it's lifespan so far.  Software sales?  Well, that could do a lot better, but I think that is largely due to people picking it up as a blu-ray player only....
Logged

Mike Dunn
Executive Producer & Managing Editor, GamingTrend
Farscry
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4001



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2007, 01:09:45 AM »

Quote from: tripwire on October 20, 2007, 02:52:40 PM

Sony dominated NA with the PS2 last gen, now they're not even close.

That's a huge problem. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be dropping prices rapidly within the first year of existence, and/or begging 3rd party devs to not abandon them.

I doubt that having Japan as their bread and butter for sales is what matters to them the most. It's a market that they already knew, like everyone else in the gaming world, that MS had no shot against them.

The reason Japan matters is because of the game publishing/developing houses in Japan. If Sony is behind worldwide, not just in America or Japan, then those companies will start looking elsewhere. Right now, the platforms that are garnering more and more support are the DS & Wii first, the 360 second.
Logged

Purge - You have unlocked an Achievement!
You are now of the rank reprobate
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2007, 03:28:29 AM »

Quote from: semiconscious on October 20, 2007, 10:22:38 PM

Quote from: Brendan on October 20, 2007, 10:12:00 PM

Quote from: Turtle on October 20, 2007, 09:52:06 PM

Just as you see me as someone grasping at all corners in defense of the PS3.  I see you, and others here, grasping at all corners for things to confirm your idea that the PS3 is a complete failure.

Here's an easy question:  Do you think PS3 sales have met Sony's expectations?  If not, by what margin have they failed to meet Sony's expectations?

By any reasonable objective measurement (# of units sold, # of developers producing content, price consistency, etc), the PS3 is a failure.  It's conceivable that their current mad rush will make them a little less of a failure, but they're never going to make it out of third place this generation.  That may not matter as much to them if it succeeds as a trojan horse at foisting Blu-Ray off onto the world, but that remains to be seen.

not including durability, obviously slywink ...

Heh - it's fair to point out that as a failure, but it is not, itself, a measure of success.  No one is trying to make the "most durable" console, they're trying to make the "most sold" console.  So, it affects # of units sold and $ made, and, unfortunately, makes the 360 only a "qualified" success (because the 360's still going to lose Microsoft money thanks to the setting aside of a billion dollars).  Worth it though to ensure that customers feel comfortable that their Xbox is going to be alive for at least three years.
Logged
semiconscious
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4416



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2007, 04:07:40 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 21, 2007, 03:28:29 AM

No one is trying to make the "most durable" console, they're trying to make the "most sold" console.

to the extent that sony & nintendo did manage to do it, i wouldn't say no one is trying to, i think 'microsoft isn't trying to' would be a more appropriate way of saying it. &, if this's indeed true, & ms truly believes it's all about sales & not about quality, then you agree one needn't be wearing a tin-foil hat to believe that ms, in an attempt to be the first out of the gate, has known all along (they do still test in-house, correct?) that they've been selling a flawed piece of hardware? (& don't be telling me about the billion dollars here - back in 11/05, there was no billion dollars, there was only first-to-market - & 'calculated risk')...

quality & quantity needn't be an either/or situation (nintendo). but, given a choice, i, personally, am more impressed, & more willing to spend my own money, based on the former rather than the latter... of course, i'm an old man, & this is a brave new world, eh? smile ...
Logged

"... i'm not against some 'monkey catching'... but i'd rather be collecting pants..."
- snake, 'snake vs monkey' (mgs3:se)
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2007, 07:35:39 PM »

I can absolutely guarantee you that the quality of the console was not a "calculated risk."  The problems can be more accurately described as "a manufacturing fuckup."  I'm just saying that by the metrics one uses to measure a business, the Xbox is a successful game console (# of units sold, developer support), but a business failure ($ made).  The PS3 is a failure at both.  I'm not making any arguments about hardware quality:  McDonald's (ugh) is a successful business.

----

To be clearer:  The Xbox is not the "McDonald's" of consoles - As evidenced by the company's public statements to investors and analysts, this version of the Xbox was intended to make a profit, but that's a seriously uphill battle at this point.  That's why the suggestion that this heat sink problem was known/intentional/whatever is totally ridiculous.  Whatever it added to the COGs to fix that problem (50 cents?  A dollar?  Two dollars?) would have been worth it to prevent what's happened instead.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 07:48:49 PM by Brendan » Logged
gellar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8951


I'm a dolphin!


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2007, 08:42:28 PM »

I don't necessarily think the PS3 is a failure (as in, game over), but it's certainly failing.  It's not doing OMGFUCK terrible, but when compared to the gigantic lead the PS2 had over the competition Sony has lost a TON of ground.  Even if the PS3 manages to pull itself off the canvas and 'win' this generation, it will not have done so with anything close to the decisiveness than the PS2 did.  For that reason alone, the 360 and Wii have 'won' their respective battles, while the PS3 was almost certainly doomed for failure from the start.

gellar
Logged
semiconscious
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4416



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2007, 09:16:06 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 21, 2007, 07:35:39 PM

I can absolutely guarantee you that the quality of the console was not a "calculated risk."

with the recent history of people 'absolutely guaranteeing' different things (colin powell at the u.n. a few years back comes to mind), let's just say we agree to disagree, okay? you've got your pov, from the inside, & i've got mine, from the outside, &, while mine has traditionally the more objective/reliable of the 2 when it comes to situations like this, i'll be leaving it there...

besides, whether fuck-up or calculated risk, it still worked (2 outa 3 metrics ain't all that bad), & i can't argue with 'success' (or understanding the american consumer the way ms demonstrably does), now can i? smile ...
Logged

"... i'm not against some 'monkey catching'... but i'd rather be collecting pants..."
- snake, 'snake vs monkey' (mgs3:se)
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2007, 09:48:10 PM »

Well, if you're giving us the smarts to decide to make a "calculated risk" of that magnitude, let's think about the risks here:

Possible gains for the company:  Save $x / console by using insufficient heat dissipation methods - in this case, I hope we can agree that x is less than, say, $5.  And that's a huge huge overestimate of the cost.  10 million consoles sold gives us 50 million in savings.

Possible losses for the company:  Console fails requiring warranty repair or replacement.  As we can see from the pre-allocation of a billion dollars for up to 10 million consoles, that's $100 per console.  The worst case scenario is the one that Microsoft is paying for now.

So, you may save $5 per console, but you risk losing $100 per console.

When you're building a new piece of hardware like this, production of real RTM-style consoles doesn't begin until literally weeks before launch.  Multiple manufacturing plants are coming online, multiple vendors are supplying components, and many of the pieces have never been produced prior to shipping as part of the 360.  Thousands of the initial run of consoles are discarded immediately because the presumption is that they're bad because the flaws haven't been worked out.  It's possible (even probable) that the test units used for software development were less likely to hit this flaw because they went through a different variant of the manufacturing process.

Getting back to gellar - I don't see how it's possible that the PS3 can "win" anything.  It would have to have an exclusive so compelling that people would overlook the extra hundred bucks to play it.  MGS?  Ratchet and Clank?  Good games, but everyone who is willing to buy a PS3 just to play Metal Gear Solid has already purchased one.  There's no way Sony can even hope to break even on this generation.  They'll still sell the console, and they'll still develop games, but third-party support will continue to wane.  The PS3 is the new Gamecube.
Logged
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2007, 09:53:44 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 21, 2007, 09:48:10 PM


Getting back to gellar - I don't see how it's possible that the PS3 can "win" anything.  It would have to have an exclusive so compelling that people would overlook the extra hundred bucks to play it.  MGS?  Ratchet and Clank?  Good games, but everyone who is willing to buy a PS3 just to play Metal Gear Solid has already purchased one.  There's no way Sony can even hope to break even on this generation.  They'll still sell the console, and they'll still develop games, but third-party support will continue to wane.  The PS3 is the new Gamecube.

I think this is the obvious point here-how in the world would the PS3 drag itself off the mat and win this generation? Under what circumstances will Sony discount the hardware that much? Where will they find the exclusives to make people buy the games? Why will the many millions more 360 users bolt to the PS3 to play multiplatform games that almost to a one, have been superior on the 360 hardware? No, it might not be a failure in the definition of the word, but it is the Gamecube of this generation. Dragging itself off the mat to win this generation is a complete pipedream.
Logged
warning
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 7325



View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2007, 10:04:41 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 21, 2007, 09:48:10 PM

The PS3 is the new Gamecube.

Except that the Gamecube was profitable for Nintendo and I doubt the PS3 ever becomes profitable for Sony.  The PS3 is the new Dreamcast maybe?  Jaguar?  3DO?
Logged
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2007, 10:08:01 PM »

Good point.  Maybe it's the new CD-i? slywink
Logged
gellar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8951


I'm a dolphin!


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2007, 01:00:32 AM »

Yeah I'm not saying it's bloody likely, I'm just saying it's not impossible.

Did anyone think Rocky would beat the Russian dude?

gellar
Logged
StitchJones
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 171


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2007, 01:18:11 AM »

As a console fan, I REALLY do want the PS# to do well because I know they would put out some of the best RPG's (My favorite genre of game), but it is looking more and more like they are going to come in third for another holiday season.  The 360 right now has some serious mojo going.  Halo3 was HUGE and allowed them to pick up a nice spike in consoles that they might be able to maintain through Christmas.   Add to this that Mass Effect looks like a slight system seller, and they could do 500k plus again in November or December, putting Sony in an even bigger hole.

Sony needs to get out quality games quick, and definitely before GTA IV ships (The next big system seller).  People that are still on the fence about getting a system will probably get one then and if the PS3 does not have enough good games out by then in comparison to the 360, then they will be in big trouble.

Sony's biggest hurdle right now is price, and the fact that they will never be as cheap as the 360.  Soon as the PS3 gets any traction, MS is just gonna lower the price again.
Logged
biggercup
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 515



View Profile WWW
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2007, 01:42:46 AM »

As a fan of Japanese made action games and RPG games, I do want PS3 to do well.
However, my love for XBOX360 is growing more and more everyday.   Tongue

If XBOX360 start to get more Japanese titles, PS3 will be in more trouble.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.209 seconds with 103 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.058s, 2q)