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Author Topic: Dead Rising impressions!  (Read 29219 times)
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mikeg
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« Reply #120 on: August 14, 2006, 08:58:45 PM »

Listening to the complaints so far I am so glad I did not get this after all as those complaints all hit on areas of games that erk me the most.  See the potential for the whole thing, but the leveling, control, baby sit missions, mindless killing for the sake of killing only, and others turn me off. 

Got to looking after this game what I am looking for and there is nothing until Gears of War.  Gonna be a long fall and winter.
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« Reply #121 on: August 14, 2006, 10:19:55 PM »

I have some complaints, one of which is a mega-complaint.  First off the save system is horrible and the fact that the game is timed makes it even worse.  I wish it was more open ended so I could go do the scoops I wanted to when I want.  Second, the explanations of what you are supposed to be doing are shit.  Just follow the arrow I guess.  Thirdly, my mega-complaint, weapons and item usage should be designated to two buttons instead of one.  Many many many times I will be in the heat of battle against 10 or so zombies when I get hit and drop my weapon only to have my player switch to a health item and waste it because I was mashing the attack button.  This pisses me off to no end!  Also, it has happened when I have a health item in my hand and I want to attack a zombie hand-to-hand.  God damn it that pisses me off!  This game could be really fun but right now it is frustrating the hell out of me.
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godhugh
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« Reply #122 on: August 14, 2006, 10:31:18 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on August 14, 2006, 08:31:28 PM

I ended up picking this up and playing it over the weekend.  At its core is a great game.  Wrapped around it are numerous questionable design decisions that really detract from the experience.  Overall, it's a much harder game than it needs to be, especially at the start.

1. Save system - Clunky.  This game badly needs save anywhere and multiple save slots.  Let me save once before I trigger a boss fight and once right after it starts.  As it is I have to hoof it back to the fight, wait for the cut-scene to load, skip the cut-scene and then wait for it to reload back to the gameplay.  Repeat for the 7 times I attempted the 2nd Carlito fight before restarting.
2. Forced replay - It's designed around restarting at least once and is a must to accomplish all the goals.  As it is I feel I need to work up to around level 10 before I even attempt a real run at the story.
3. Aiming - Auto-lock-on and strafing should've been no brainers (braaaaiiins) for a game about mass slaughter.  Changing to Camera focus instead of Player helped a little.  But you have to stand in one place and it...moves...so....slow.  Guns are nigh useless.
3. Timed missions - Erg.  Not enough time to accomplish your goals without #2.  The main Case missions should've just been on a when-you-get-to-them trigger.
5. Follower AI - They stop and fight everything and try their darndest to get themselves killed.  Just keep running, dang it!
6. Item degradation - The current system is frustrating.  Alleviated by carrying around a bunch of books, but you have to go back to #2 to build up enough slots for them.  Then when I'm trying to swap items mid-fight I end up swatting zombies.
7. Otis/Voiceovers - The lack of voiceovers elicits one of these: :icon_confused:.  And stop f'in calling me like some co-dependent lover.  At least give me an ear piece so I can defend myself.

I've been getting quite a few helpful hints (such as picking up a specific book and weapon combo) and tips on beating the bosses.  But overall the frustration is wearing me down.  At least I've gone from wanting to smash my entire entertainment system to just smashing a controller.  Progress.  icon_smile  I will continue to put some more time in with it this week, though.  A+ for potential, C- for execution.

Honestly, we must be playing different games.

1) The save system feels identical to any number of other console RPG's. There are restrooms/gym's in every section of the mall and getting around the zombies isn't really all that difficult.

2) I actually enjoy this concept. I'm on my 3rd restart and I'm level 25 at case file 7-2. There have been maybe a handful of scoops I wasn't able to accomplish, probably around 10-12. I know I'll be able to get those when I take my 25+ character back through 72 hour mode and I can't wait smile.

3) I've found guns to be very useful, even got an accomplishment for using them so much. The shotgun, sniper rifle, and heavy machine gun are easily my most used weapons, next to the lead pipe. Only time I've had a problem with aiming was in the fight against Cletus, but that was due more to his constantly shotgunning my ass then the system.

4) I don't get this complaint at all. I've rescued 20 or so survivors, sometimes 4 at a time and the only time I have much trouble is crossing the park at night. Had the two asian fellows get eaten that time. As for them always attacking the zombies, it depends on the survivor. Some are more aggressive, but even with them a couple "Hey, come here!"'s and they come running.

5) Yeah, this can be kinda aggravating. But it just comes down to finding weapons your comfortable with and getting the right books. I keep an industrial book and an edged weapon book on my, which gives my lead pipe and Ceremonial Sword a ton of life. Earlier, before I'd settled on what weapons I wanted to use this pissed me off more, but now I hardly notice it.

6) Completely agree with this one.
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« Reply #123 on: August 14, 2006, 10:34:42 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on August 14, 2006, 08:31:28 PM

5. Follower AI - They stop and fight everything and try their darndest to get themselves killed.  Just keep running, dang it!

I beat a woman to death with a sledgehammer last night trying to help her fight zombies.  Damnit I was pissed since I already dragged her ass halfway through the damned mall.

And that photographer guy...  I tried to kill him myself on purpose but he killed me instead.  What am I supposed to do with this guy?

At the end of the day I want some free-roam GTA-style gameplay.  Tackling the missions when I feel like it just wander around generally kicking zombie ass when I get home from work.

I spent $60 on this game and I know it has some good stuff inside.  I'm going to get at that chewy center if it kills me.  Putting a horsehead mask on a zombie and cutting him with my toy lightsaber makes it all worthwhile. icon_biggrin
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happydog
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« Reply #124 on: August 14, 2006, 10:55:46 PM »

Ok, I need a hit relating to the "Ceremonial Sword" (i.e. how the heck do you kill that guy)? Everything I tried seemed completely useless. Same with the clown.
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godhugh
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« Reply #125 on: August 14, 2006, 11:33:17 PM »

Quote from: happydog on August 14, 2006, 10:55:46 PM

Ok, I need a hit relating to the "Ceremonial Sword" (i.e. how the heck do you kill that guy)? Everything I tried seemed completely useless. Same with the clown.

Use a Katana. If you hit him 3 times with it, he'll fall down. Get behind him then and just start wailing away. If he gets back up, just keep close to him and never stop attacking with the Katana, he'll eventually fall back down. Should only take 4-5 repeats of this to finish him off.

Key point - Never. Stop. Swinging. The. Katana.

Alternate method - get the heavy machine gun from the convicts and take it in there with you. The way the battle starts, he's directly in front of you with nothing in your way. Just start filling him with bullets from the word go. With that gun, it will probably only take 10-20 direct hits before he goes down.
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« Reply #126 on: August 15, 2006, 04:39:42 AM »

This game is just an exercise in frustration to me.  They make boss encounters rely so heavily on firearms, yet they provide no way for the player to duck or take cover.

The follower AI is just braindead, they need to take a cue from Half-Life 2 Episode 1.  I had people stopping for no reason at all.  Leah, on the otherhand, was fine by me, she was hurt, I'd have to carry her to make this go quickly.  The two guys in the women's clothing store were idiots, one of them always found some reason to stand there and get mauled by zombies.  Then, when I go to help him the others get mauled by zombies.  Then, when looking for a save point I get killed because, that's right, the only save point happens to be back at the security room and I end up in the hallway full of zombies and a welded shut door.

I rented the game this morning, and I haven't gotten to Case 1-4 yet.  I stop for a survivor, they die, I die, nightfalls and everyone dies.  Then, if the survivors somehow live for a few minutes, all the time I took trying to keep them alive lets those stupid convicts spawn in the central park.  And somehow, with hundreds of zombies all over the park, they find me and gun me and my followers down.  But, the direct path through the mall is magically blocked by a gate for which there is no switch.  Meaning I either go the long way around the entire mall fighting with my stupid follower AI, or go through the park and die.

It's just a lose lose situation.

The sad thing is, the game and story was interesting, but I've lost all interest in the game.  If there were cheat codes for this game I'd probably just put all of them in and just burn through everything just to see the story, but since there's not I'll just wait for this one to hit the bargain bin.

This game is more frustrating than the original resident evil with all its weird interface quirks.
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Jancelot
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« Reply #127 on: August 15, 2006, 04:59:01 AM »

First of all, did I really skip #4?   icon_redface

I did 2 more restarts this evening and am now around level 14 having just started Day 2.  I also made a b-line for those books and the mini-chainsaws.  They certainly have increased my enjoyment level.  Although seeing the AI characters stuck on walls far behind me brings out the Red Jancelot.

Quote from: godhugh on August 14, 2006, 10:31:18 PM

Honestly, we must be playing different games.

I think the gameplay style they're presenting is very divisive by design as people seem to love it or hate and not much in between.  The bottom line is that not only is it a tough game, but the difficulty is front loaded.  You start out too weak to really make it very far.  It's set up so that you're supposed to die and start over...several times.  This design decision really goes against pretty much every single other game I've played (at least I can't recall any that required death to progress).  After realizing this I now understand why you and others like it, but I guess I just don't care for it.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #128 on: August 15, 2006, 01:48:42 PM »

So I picked this up over the weekend and now I'm kinda wishing I hadn't.

Basically, I agree that the save system and some of the associated design isn't well thought through.  I'm not opposed to the general idea of the save system/new game+ but I don't think it is implemented well.  For example, the opening helicopter ride is very cool the first time, but kind of boring after that.  The constant loading going into and out of cutscenes is annoying during a restart because at this point you are probabably just clicking through them anyway.  And then there is the game's "dialogue" system- since the game locks you out from doing anything while it displays dialogue (with no way that i can see to fast click through), I'm stuck waiting for that stupid photographer to say his piece (which takes way too long) just so I can trigger his photo sidequest.  Same goes for Otis's phonecalls- since I can't do anything while answering the phone, I now deliberately ignore the cell phone since I want to concentrate on the main quest instead of escort's for now.  But that also means listening to the stupid cell phone ring repeatedly every where I go. 

There is a lot of good stuff here too, though- the graphics are very smooth and much better than I was expecting based on screenshots, the skill system is well implemented, combat is appropriately visceral, and the amount of cool things to see and do is incredible.  Unfortunately, my problems with the game are such that I really have little desire to play and I'm already thinking of trading it in while I can still get a decent amount for it. 
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« Reply #129 on: August 15, 2006, 02:27:59 PM »

I am pretty early into the game. I have restarted twice and finally just finished the first case. I am trying to play the game fresh through and not try and go back and redo something if I don't get it right (this is a real problem for me as a I try to get everything perfect and never get very far into games.)

Anyway, I have only been able to save one survivor and that was the girl in the park whos older friend gets killed by the convicts in the hummer. The only reason I was able to save her was because she actually ran to keep up.

How do you guys save the woman in the jewelry store whos baby was eaten by the zombies? She limps and keeps getting attacked. Is there anyway to pick these people up or put them in the shopping cart?

I do love the cutscenes when someone you are protecting die tho. When the kid put the gun to his head when he was surrounded by the zombies, that was awesome.
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godhugh
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« Reply #130 on: August 15, 2006, 02:40:34 PM »

Quote from: Scoop20906 on August 15, 2006, 02:27:59 PM

How do you guys save the woman in the jewelry store whos baby was eaten by the zombies? She limps and keeps getting attacked. Is there anyway to pick these people up or put them in the shopping cart?

Yeah, just get close to her. Once she's joined you, instead of giving you the option to Talk to her it will give you the option to Carry her.
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« Reply #131 on: August 15, 2006, 02:47:32 PM »

Quote from: godhugh on August 15, 2006, 02:40:34 PM

Quote from: Scoop20906 on August 15, 2006, 02:27:59 PM

How do you guys save the woman in the jewelry store whos baby was eaten by the zombies? She limps and keeps getting attacked. Is there anyway to pick these people up or put them in the shopping cart?

Yeah, just get close to her. Once she's joined you, instead of giving you the option to Talk to her it will give you the option to Carry her.


Thanks! Wish the game had prompted me I could do that. Time to restart? Man, we should be able to skip the helicoptor scene.
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« Reply #132 on: August 15, 2006, 02:51:24 PM »

Quote from: Scoop20906 on August 15, 2006, 02:47:32 PM

Quote from: godhugh on August 15, 2006, 02:40:34 PM

Quote from: Scoop20906 on August 15, 2006, 02:27:59 PM

How do you guys save the woman in the jewelry store whos baby was eaten by the zombies? She limps and keeps getting attacked. Is there anyway to pick these people up or put them in the shopping cart?

Yeah, just get close to her. Once she's joined you, instead of giving you the option to Talk to her it will give you the option to Carry her.


Thanks! Wish the game had prompted me I could do that. Time to restart? Man, we should be able to skip the helicoptor scene.

You mean the part where you can take photos? Hit start, section skipped.
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« Reply #133 on: August 15, 2006, 02:56:02 PM »

I don't know exactly what you mean by skip, but I just hit the Start button and it skipped the helicoptor scene (even the photography part) *.  Perhaps you mean a way to disable the cut-scenes entirely as Kevin Grey alluded?  I would welcome an option to turn them off and just go straight to the action as well.

Also, I had no idea you could give things to the survivors until last night.  Perhaps I need to RTFM a bit more (is it in there? was it in the tutorial?  buried somewhere in Otis' text?).  3 survivors armed with a mini-chainsaw, katana and pistol are one mean backup crew.  Got my 1000 zombies killed Achievement in no time.

* doh, beaten by coop.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #134 on: August 15, 2006, 02:58:06 PM »

Ah, didn't know that you could completely skip the helicopter scene- that's good to know!
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Scoop20906
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« Reply #135 on: August 15, 2006, 03:00:43 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on August 15, 2006, 02:56:02 PM

I don't know exactly what you mean by skip, but I just hit the Start button and it skipped the helicoptor scene (even the photography part) *.  Perhaps you mean a way to disable the cut-scenes entirely as Kevin Grey alluded?  I would welcome an option to turn them off and just go straight to the action as well.

Also, I had no idea you could give things to the survivors until last night.  Perhaps I need to RTFM a bit more (is it in there? was it in the tutorial?  buried somewhere in Otis' text?).  3 survivors armed with a mini-chainsaw, katana and pistol are one mean backup crew.  Got my 1000 zombies killed Achievement in no time.

* doh, beaten by coop.

Jancelot, I had no idea you could arm survivors. If that is the case I will grab a few chainsaws from the hardware store next door and arm the two dimwits and then carry the mother other save all three. Awesome. It makes more sense to in a Zombie movie type of way. Thanks for the tip.

Once last question. The first scoop with the guy showing me how to take photos. I took about a 100 pictures of him. Does he ever stop asking you to take his picture so you can lead him to the security room and save him?
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Jancelot
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« Reply #136 on: August 15, 2006, 03:15:57 PM »

Arm the intended weapon and walk up to a survior when he is following you.  The option for the B button action should read, "Give".  I noticed it by chance last night.

He asks you to take 3 different specific photos.  The last one you have to catch him doing his arm-pumping celebration motion.  It took me a long time to finally figure out his "special pose" or however he phrased it.  He won't follow you back.  He'll ask for more pictures and want to meet you later.
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« Reply #137 on: August 15, 2006, 09:56:59 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on August 15, 2006, 03:15:57 PM

Arm the intended weapon and walk up to a survior when he is following you.  The option for the B button action should read, "Give".  I noticed it by chance last night.

He asks you to take 3 different specific photos.  The last one you have to catch him doing his arm-pumping celebration motion.  It took me a long time to finally figure out his "special pose" or however he phrased it.  He won't follow you back.  He'll ask for more pictures and want to meet you later.

You'll only be able to arm some of the survivors, those who are brave enough to attack a zombie. Others, like most of the women and any injured survivors, will only give you the Carry or Hold Hands option. Best to pick those guys up alone, pick up or hold their hand, and just run as fast as you can back to the security room.
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« Reply #138 on: August 15, 2006, 10:33:42 PM »

Quote from: Scoop20906 on August 15, 2006, 03:00:43 PM

Once last question. The first scoop with the guy showing me how to take photos. I took about a 100 pictures of him. Does he ever stop asking you to take his picture so you can lead him to the security room and save him?

You need to take a photo of him when he is posing.  He will then look at it and critique your work as well as show you his pics.  Apparently he wants you to take photos like the ones he shows you (three different genres).  After he shows you these he runs off and I haven't seen him since.  I haven't tried taking the three photos he talks about. 

Let me tell you, that guy needs no protection.  I wish I could get him to join me so he could be the one providing protection! icon_lol

As for the mom in the jewlery store, you just have to keep talking to her until she agrees to follow you.  She will jump the counter and then you can press the talk button (b?) and give her a piggy back ride!
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« Reply #139 on: August 15, 2006, 10:35:42 PM »

Quote from: godhugh on August 15, 2006, 09:56:59 PM

You'll only be able to arm some of the survivors, those who are brave enough to attack a zombie. Others, like most of the women and any injured survivors, will only give you the Carry or Hold Hands option. Best to pick those guys up alone, pick up or hold their hand, and just run as fast as you can back to the security room.

I tried this once early in the game.  After rescuing the woman in the jewelry store I made my way upstairs and into a hallway where I saw an exit on the map.  I had to fight through a hallway that was literally packed thick like sardines with zombies.  Made it to the door only to find it was the security room.  Unfortunately I think it was the door we had welded shut earlier on.  I didn't make it back out.
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« Reply #140 on: August 15, 2006, 10:35:56 PM »

Good tips. Thanks everyone. This is much appreciated.
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« Reply #141 on: August 15, 2006, 10:36:24 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot
Once last question. The first scoop with the guy showing me how to take photos. I took about a 100 pictures of him. Does he ever stop asking you to take his picture so you can lead him to the security room and save him?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Kent asks you to take a few different photos of him.  One is up in the Beanery where almost any "dramatic" photo will do.  He then has you move downstairs where you should try to photograph him shooting and/or jump-kicking a zombie.  Finally, you need to photograph him doing his "super cool pose" which he usually does immediately after he takes a snapshot of his own.  When he stands up, closes his fist, and does sort of a "All RIGHT!" pose, take a good close up shot of him.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #142 on: August 15, 2006, 11:47:59 PM »

As much as I like the premise, I'm not a fan of the picture taking aspect of the game.

This aspect was also a bit disturbing in the intro helicopter ride too, as while I was watching people get killed through the viewfinder, I was thinking that I should have told the damn copter pilot to get in gloser and rescue these people instead of just watching them die, and taking pictures of their death.
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« Reply #143 on: August 16, 2006, 12:25:26 AM »

I am going to force myself to like this game.  It goes against my gaming principles, it really does (basically one big TIMED mission, it's HARD, I'm going to have to restart), but the premise is too cool.  Plus I have a bumper sticker of it on my car.  So I have to like it, right?  Right.
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« Reply #144 on: August 16, 2006, 02:49:16 AM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on August 16, 2006, 12:25:26 AM

I am going to force myself to like this game.

Good.  We're in this together!

I'm pumped for a sequel because I know they will have fixed some of the clunky stuff.

Random complaint #42: I hate the way the guy runs.  I know he is supposed to be holding his camera, but he looks like he has been gut shot in addition to trying some kind of Kyser Soze limp thing.  Maybe he broke his ankle when he jumped out of the chopper?  Either that or he shit himself.  Oh, and he huffs and puffs like a fat man that just ran to the top of the Empire State Building.

But yesterday I decided to make the worst looking character I could.  Teddy bear mask, children's size Batman t-shirt, cutoff jean shorts, and gym socks up to the knees.  Awful.  This is what I imagine TML wears when he dances to to that teenybopper music shit he loves so much.
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« Reply #145 on: August 16, 2006, 04:16:23 AM »

Something I've noticed re: the survivor AI.  The Go-To command is incredibly useful. 

At first, I was just yelling at any survivors to follow me every few seconds.  Much more useful to tell them to go to a certain point with aim +"Y".  They still get hung up occasionally, but they seem to choose better paths.  Plus it makes it much easier to babysit large groups.   You can send them into the back of a large store and zombies will generally leave them alone until you've cleared a path to the zone exit or rescued any stragglers.   

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was even able to save all the survivors in the movie theater using this method. Best I ever did before was 2.
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« Reply #146 on: August 16, 2006, 05:07:20 AM »

Here are my end-of-game stats.  I focused pretty much exclusively on the story missions, and although I died and had to reload many, many times, I never restarted the game.  This is also without the aid of any strategy guide....which, given the results, probably goes without saying.  Tongue

PP Earned: 1,533,880
Game Clear: Ending A -- Bonus 50,000
Zombie Kill Count: 4,191 -- Bonus 20,000
Survivors: 17 -- Bonus 30,000
Photo Score: 51,580 PP -- Bonus 25,000

Current PP: 1,658,880
Total PP:1,658,880

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #147 on: August 16, 2006, 09:14:33 AM »

What I want to see is a resident evil game like this.  Not campy humor, but with large locations filled with zombies (so it actually feels zombie infested instead of a few wandering around cramped hallways), dark setting, maybe some survival based gameplay that forces you to move from location to location.
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« Reply #148 on: August 16, 2006, 02:22:37 PM »

I agree. Never mind the gameplay problems. If I were writing it, I would've made SO MANY different choices it's hard to know where to begin. Suffice it to say that virtually nothing they do with the plot or characters or tone satisfies my desire for what I want out of a "zombies in a mall" story. Too many characters and not nearly enough focus on what matters the most: the zombie problem. When I saw that green-masked cult cutscene I gave up all hope for the plotline. Fortunately, the game is fun as hell all the same.

I saved myself into a corner and had to restart yesterday. I was level 7 but I opted to start over at level 1 because the other way feels too much like cheating. But since I knew what I was doing, I leveled up much faster and I'm already almost back to where I had to restart. Now I plan to do the case files as soon as they become available and then use any downtime I may have (while waiting for new case files to open up) to tackle whatever side missions I may have available.
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« Reply #149 on: August 16, 2006, 04:31:16 PM »

rrmorton, it isn't really cheating if the game is designed to have you restart, is it?

I beat the Overtime mode, and that made me really like the game. I am excited to play through again and get the other 30 achievements.
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« Reply #150 on: August 16, 2006, 04:58:17 PM »

Quote from: rrmorton on August 16, 2006, 02:22:37 PM

I saved myself into a corner and had to restart yesterday. I was level 7 but I opted to start over at level 1 because the other way feels too much like cheating.

Aw, man, that's the way the game is meant to be played:  work through, restart as needed keeping progress for your character, then play again. smile Don't feel bad about that!
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« Reply #151 on: August 16, 2006, 06:09:56 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on August 16, 2006, 04:31:16 PM

rrmorton, it isn't really cheating if the game is designed to have you restart, is it?
I didn't say it *is* cheating, I said it *feels like* cheating. To me.

I don't get this "that's the way the game is meant to be played" reasoning that I keep reading. I realize that the game *can be* played that way, but isn't it designed to be played either way depending on how the player wants to approach it? I mean, I've only made it as far as the supermarket psycho so maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it perfectly do-able starting from the beginning at level 1? I just love a good challenge.
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« Reply #152 on: August 16, 2006, 07:56:26 PM »

Quote from: rrmorton on August 16, 2006, 06:09:56 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on August 16, 2006, 04:31:16 PM

rrmorton, it isn't really cheating if the game is designed to have you restart, is it?
I didn't say it *is* cheating, I said it *feels like* cheating. To me.

I don't get this "that's the way the game is meant to be played" reasoning that I keep reading. I realize that the game *can be* played that way, but isn't it designed to be played either way depending on how the player wants to approach it? I mean, I've only made it as far as the supermarket psycho so maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it perfectly do-able starting from the beginning at level 1? I just love a good challenge.

Yes, it's certainly possible. But trust me, it's still an exceptionally hard game even starting at level 10 and ending at level 32.
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« Reply #153 on: August 16, 2006, 08:12:51 PM »

It's interesting reading about the whole 'starting over' thing that some people recommend. This reminds me of another Capcom game (and I think that somebody else mentioned it elsewhere in this post) - Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter. That game was also meant to be started over (and like this game, you can't see the whole game on a single runthrough), and was quite difficult to be beaten on the absolute first run.

I wonder why that is. I don't own the game (don't ask), but it makes me wonder what Capcom's thought was when they decided to make the game this way.
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« Reply #154 on: August 16, 2006, 08:23:31 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on August 16, 2006, 08:12:51 PM

I wonder why that is. I don't own the game (don't ask), but it makes me wonder what Capcom's thought was when they decided to make the game this way.

It's an interesting design decision and I can see the appeal- how many times have you played a game where by the halfway point or so you think "man, now that I really know the ins and outs of the game, I could really kick ass on those early areas" or "wow, this new power I just gained would have made mincemeat of that group I fought four levels ago?".  Some games offer New Game+ options after you finish the game to explore these options but the issue there is that the first (and usually only ) run through is so long that it's a lot to ask gamers to go through it all again.

So you get the Dragon Quarter/Dead Rising system- encourage replay at any point and design a game short enough to encourage people to make those multiple runthroughs.  I haven't put as much time into Dragon Quarter as I'd like (I plan to get back to it someday) but my impression was that this design decision was much more organic there than it is in Dead Rising.  With DR, it feels more like an add-on than something designed from Day One, which is why I think it's the implementation that is poor in Dead Rising, not the theory. 
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« Reply #155 on: August 17, 2006, 01:00:41 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on August 16, 2006, 08:23:31 PM

So you get the Dragon Quarter/Dead Rising system- encourage replay at any point and design a game short enough to encourage people to make those multiple runthroughs.  I haven't put as much time into Dragon Quarter as I'd like (I plan to get back to it someday) but my impression was that this design decision was much more organic there than it is in Dead Rising.  With DR, it feels more like an add-on than something designed from Day One, which is why I think it's the implementation that is poor in Dead Rising, not the theory. 

Yeah, I understood the Dragon Quarter restart thing, and thought it actually was pretty cool. Especially how different parts of the game would open up on each successive playthrough. You'd learn more and more of the world each time you played. And with each playthrough only at 10 hours or so tops...

And oddly enough, my first attempt at playing Dragon Quarter ended with me about 3 fights short of the final boss. I'd just built up too much of the anti-humanity meter to actually beat the game. A restart though helped me blast through the beginning part of the game and finally  'win'. Then a third run though to see more stuff...
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« Reply #156 on: August 17, 2006, 01:13:18 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on August 17, 2006, 01:00:41 AM

Yeah, I understood the Dragon Quarter restart thing, and thought it actually was pretty cool. Especially how different parts of the game would open up on each successive playthrough. You'd learn more and more of the world each time you played. And with each playthrough only at 10 hours or so tops...


That's exactly the type of stuff that I wish DR implemented- if the cutscenes were different, you could access different sections of the mall, etc then it would make the system much more interesting. 
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« Reply #157 on: August 17, 2006, 02:58:27 AM »

On the other hand, you can do the same thing without making players replay over the same things over and over.

It's still very much a cop out to me, they couldn't put in enough gameplay for one long run through, so they string you along through the same sequences over and over for the chance on unlocking little side bits.

Instead of the idea of arbitrarily unlocking areas just because you play through it, you could simply have accumulated player choices grant access to different areas as part of a story.  They did this in Sword of the Samurai to good effect, despite the game's problems.
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« Reply #158 on: August 17, 2006, 03:13:01 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on August 17, 2006, 02:58:27 AM

It's still very much a cop out to me, they couldn't put in enough gameplay for one long run through, so they string you along through the same sequences over and over for the chance on unlocking little side bits.

Personally I do think they did put in enough gameplay for one run through. I've certainly played shorter games than the story portion of DR.
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« Reply #159 on: August 17, 2006, 03:29:00 AM »

Quote from: coopasonic on August 17, 2006, 03:13:01 AM

Personally I do think they did put in enough gameplay for one run through. I've certainly played shorter games than the story portion of DR.
I have to agree with this. I was very satisfied with the story portion of the game. I really like zombie stuff, though, so anything zombie is good to me.
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