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Author Topic: Dead Rising impressions!  (Read 29147 times)
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« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2006, 06:41:26 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "warning"
This game sounds like it's a good save system away from perfection.
What does that even mean?  The save system is exactly like an RPG -- there are save points, and if you use them, you get to save.

My understanding is there's ONE save slot and that's it.  That's pretty limiting for an open-ended sorta game like this.  It'd be nice to have two so you could explore for the hell of it and if it doesn't work out you could always revert to your other save and continue instead of having to start the game over.
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« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2006, 06:55:54 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
My understanding is there's ONE save slot and that's it.  That's pretty limiting for an open-ended sorta game like this.  It'd be nice to have two so you could explore for the hell of it and if it doesn't work out you could always revert to your other save and continue instead of having to start the game over.
One per profile... so I guess if you wanted to, you could always make another profile...

Again, the game's aiming for -- and indeed, taking steps to enforce -- a horror movie's tension.  I think you're missing the point if you don't realize that.  It might mean that the game's not for you, and that's totally cool.  I would hestitate before calling it 'bad,' though, just because it uses non-standard mechanics which both fit with the game and further what the game is trying to accomplish.
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« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2006, 06:56:38 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
My understanding is there's ONE save slot and that's it.  That's pretty limiting for an open-ended sorta game like this.  It'd be nice to have two so you could explore for the hell of it and if it doesn't work out you could always revert to your other save and continue instead of having to start the game over.


Given how short the game is, and how it's designed for playing through multiple times, I get the impression that this conscious design decision was intended to really hammer home the tension of having just this 72-hour timeframe to get through.  Forces you into the same tension of being in that situation, where you have to make snap decisions and stick with the results of your choice.

I'm normally against restrictive save systems, but with the way that your character's development is saved if you choose to end your game after dying and restart, it's not as bad is it would otherwise be.

I can understand complaints about it, but I don't think it can arbitrarily be called "bad" any more than saying that it's arbitrarily good. Much like the Resident Evil 4 control scheme (which I also grew to like), it's a design decision that some will hate, and some will love.
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« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2006, 07:16:03 PM »

Bad?  Who said the game was bad?  I don't even have it - just played the demo.

I said that with a better (okay different...  happy?  smile ) save system it sounds like it would be basically perfect.
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« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2006, 07:22:29 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
I said that with a better (okay different...  happy?  smile ) save system it sounds like it would be basically perfect.
Well, I guess I'll just say I disagree with you, then.  From a purely technical standpoint, yeah, the save system is hamfisted.  From an aesthetic standpoint, I think it's a great idea.

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« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2006, 07:31:27 PM »

jeez, last night i went up to the rooftop and just looked out over the parking lot.  i was surprised to see the huge number of individually animated zombies just shuffling around.  technically speaking, they did a bang up job on that aspect of that game!
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« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2006, 08:15:19 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Bad?  Who said the game was bad?  I don't even have it - just played the demo.

I said that with a better (okay different...  happy?  smile ) save system it sounds like it would be basically perfect.


No, no... I wasn't saying you were calling the game bad, but it sounded like you were calling the save system bad.  smile  I never got the impression you were harshing on the game from your post.
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« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2006, 06:02:52 PM »

After my first few hours I wasn't liking the game, it's just so different from what I'm used to playing. However, after a few more hours I started to really warm up to it and enjoy myself. I like how there's so many different ways to take down enemies and complete each scoop. Saving hostages can be a bitch though, once you get them you have to drag their asses all the way to the warehouse, they get caught on zombies along the way, and it's kinda buggy when it comes to them entering new areas.

I had no complaints about the save system until after putting about four hours into the game yesterday, I loaded it up to find I restarted the entire f'ing thing, but my character has the same stats. The fact that I restarted the game and basically lost my progress without knowing I was doing so is pretty lame. I mean seriously, I thought choosing Quit just brought you to the main menu screen or something. Ah well, I don't mind restarting ALL that much I suppose.
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« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2006, 07:23:43 PM »

The positives that they're gaining through restricting the saves are not coming close to outweighing the system's negatives.  I do agree that it ratchets up the tension, but when I am overwhelmed and defeated by whatever they throw at me, that tension dissipates and all that's left is frustration.  Case in point, the first night I played for a couple (real time) hours.  I got a message that indicated some ride had gone crazy.  I went to check it out, thinking it might be one of the normal hostage quests with a platforming twist or something.  Instead, with no warning whatsoever I get stuck in a boss fight that's extremely difficult under the best of circumstances with 3 bullets in my handgun and no other weapons.  I died and lost an hour of progress.  At that point, I would gladly traded every ounce of tension for an autosave between zones. 

I can appreciate what they were going for, and I don't even have any problem with the timed elements. But for me the tension created by a lack of saves is not what's really fun about this game, and in fact, in many cases it is a major roadblock to the fun in this game.
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« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2006, 08:25:36 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on August 11, 2006, 06:56:38 PM



Given how short the game is, and how it's designed for playing through multiple times, I get the impression that this conscious design decision was intended to really hammer home the tension of having just this 72-hour timeframe to get through.  Forces you into the same tension of being in that situation, where you have to make snap decisions and stick with the results of your choice.


I'm finding that the game has a bit of a different feel now that I'm on my 2nd 72 hour run (I borked the last case the first time around).  Starting the game at level 21 has given it more of an action-movie feel.  Even though I still get killed/lose survivors on a regular basis, I feel more like an ass-kicker and less like a shlub.   icon_biggrin  The game definitely has a lot of replay value.   
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« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2006, 11:39:41 PM »

From what I read on the Capcom forums, even when you beat the game and unlock the "Infinite" time mode, your health is constantly depleting so you are forced to go searching out food for most of your time.  Who's the wizard that came up with this shit?   icon_neutral
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« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2006, 12:06:57 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on August 12, 2006, 11:39:41 PM

From what I read on the Capcom forums, even when you beat the game and unlock the "Infinite" time mode, your health is constantly depleting so you are forced to go searching out food for most of your time.  Who's the wizard that came up with this shit?   icon_neutral
What the bloody hell sense does that make? That's right - none at all.

Especially considering that there's only so much food in the mall.
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« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2006, 01:31:07 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on August 12, 2006, 11:39:41 PM

From what I read on the Capcom forums, even when you beat the game and unlock the "Infinite" time mode, your health is constantly depleting so you are forced to go searching out food for most of your time.  Who's the wizard that came up with this shit?   icon_neutral
That's fucked up.

Like I said this game sounds so close to perfection but there are a couple of really weird design decisions that I just don't get.

Back to the save system... Okay how about offering an Ironman mode that uses the current save system and unlocks a really cool achievement or something if you complete it?  Then offer a regular save system for people who want to just kick some zombie ass and check things out casually?  That would address both the "Oh no!  It's a way of ensuring tension!" camp and the "I don't want to play for 7 hours and have to start all over because I did something stupid" camp.
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« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2006, 02:54:49 AM »

Post that on the Capcom forums. My understanding is, in addition to immediately asking whether or not people want a sequel, is that they are feverishly taking notes on what fans love/hate on this game. It sounds like they actively want this to be a new franchise for them, which is stellar thinking, and absolutely want to please as many people as possible. Granted, eventually some good ideas may get tossed as that happens all the time in development. But for the time being throw out all your ideas at them and hopefully the second one will be the perfect game people feel the first game is so close to being.
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« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2006, 03:00:50 AM »

Sorry to interrupt the talk about the sadistic save system.

Has anyone beaten the three goons in the jeep? I want to take them out but cannot figure out how to do it. The guy in the back seat has a machine gun and he knows how to use it.
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« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2006, 03:38:39 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on August 13, 2006, 02:54:49 AM

Post that on the Capcom forums. My understanding is, in addition to immediately asking whether or not people want a sequel, is that they are feverishly taking notes on what fans love/hate on this game. It sounds like they actively want this to be a new franchise for them, which is stellar thinking, and absolutely want to please as many people as possible. Granted, eventually some good ideas may get tossed as that happens all the time in development. But for the time being throw out all your ideas at them and hopefully the second one will be the perfect game people feel the first game is so close to being.

They also have a survey in which you can give some feedback about Dead Rising.  Hopefully this all leads to better games in the long run. 
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« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2006, 07:04:21 AM »

Well, the save system is fairly awful for my tastes, but, the controls are what have put me on the edge of walking away from the game for good.  Specifically the controls when you use a gun.  Why they couldn't just use the same setup that the camera has I will never know.  I'd like to find out more about how the story progress', but, a combination of
Spoiler for Hiden:
man with 50cal sniping rifle
and the fact that by the time I get a shot lined up I'm half dead, has left me more and more reluctant to play the game.

There is a lot to have fun with in the game, but, my incompatibility with the controls is leaving me more frustrated than entertained.  I figure I'll give it another shot when I'm less tired.  That's worked on other games.

Edit: forgot the fact that I depsise escort missions.
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« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2006, 12:46:55 PM »

There's an option in the option screen that's for aim view, I think.  It lets you switch between having it default to the character's facing, or to the camera's facing.  I switched that, and I haven't had a problem since.
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« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2006, 01:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on August 13, 2006, 12:46:55 PM

There's an option in the option screen that's for aim view, I think.  It lets you switch between having it default to the character's facing, or to the camera's facing.  I switched that, and I haven't had a problem since.
Thanks Chaz. Good tip. This was bothering me too!
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« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2006, 03:39:38 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on August 13, 2006, 03:00:50 AM

Sorry to interrupt the talk about the sadistic save system.

Has anyone beaten the three goons in the jeep? I want to take them out but cannot figure out how to do it. The guy in the back seat has a machine gun and he knows how to use it.

Well here is how I did it:
Spoiler for Hiden:
I just got them to follow me into the trees. After a bit of running around in there, they hit a tree and became stuck. I just hid behind a tree and shot them one by one. You can stand mostly behind a tree and when in aim mode still hit them.
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« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2006, 05:48:15 PM »

Not sure if I really like this game.  I am tryng to find the fun, but the poor aim ability is not very good in my opinion. Before anyone asked I switched it to camera aim and it still sucks.  I'm just not finiding it much fun.   I'm finding that I have to force myself to play which is never a good thing.  Think I am glad I rented this from gamefly.


Spoiler for Hiden:
I let one of my escortees die as I got tired of him lagging behind. The dude Aaron in the Women's Clothing store


Also, I don't like the random level up skill.  I would rather pick what I want to level instead of the game doing it for me.

Again, I think I am glad that I rented the game instead of buying
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« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2006, 06:15:36 PM »

I don't mind the save system in general, I think some of you need to stop being lazy and run your asses to one of the restrooms between scoops to save. I just don't particularly like that I restarted the 72 hour story mode, albeit with my character's updated stats, without knowing I was doing so. I read the manual and everything, I still didn't realize what I was doing. I've heard complaints from other people who did the same thing.
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« Reply #102 on: August 13, 2006, 07:46:04 PM »

I thought the on-screen text was fairly clear on the restart on the second screen... if you read it  ninja

I finished 72 hour mode with one bad and one good ending (same play through, reloaded to get good ending) and am getting started on overtime mode. I'm happy to see that overtime is not the same game over again... though it may be a serious pain in the butt. slywink

Very much enjoying the game!
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« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2006, 07:55:58 PM »

I'm considering trading in the game already, I don't feel like back-tracking through the stuff I did just a couple days ago. I didn't have all that much fun doing it the first time  icon_neutral
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« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2006, 08:03:26 PM »

Sorry to hear it man :icon_sad: I can see how it could be frustrating.. maybe I'm just stubborn.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2006, 08:05:03 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on August 13, 2006, 05:48:15 PM

Also, I don't like the random level up skill.  I would rather pick what I want to level instead of the game doing it for me.

You could become overpowered pretty quickly I think if you could pick what you got at level up... I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I'm just saying.
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« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2006, 09:16:17 PM »

Either I suck or this game is hard.  Note, I'm willing to bet on the former.  My damned camera is out of batteries and I get ganked something fierce.  I'm still on Case 1-2 and sucking that up pretty bad.  Got tired of running back to Brad to get shot again and just enjoy the mall.  I need to try switching the aim camera thing because that throws me off big time.

I also love that I can't do anything while Otis prattles on in his stupid textbox.  No voiceovers or am I deaf?

I'm going to find some enjoyment in this game.  Just sick of doing the same thing over and over because I get myself killed.  Lawnmower over the zombies is good clean fun, though.
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« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2006, 09:34:15 PM »

Quote from: stiffler on August 13, 2006, 09:16:17 PM

Either I suck or this game is hard.  Note, I'm willing to bet on the former.  My damned camera is out of batteries and I get ganked something fierce.  I'm still on Case 1-2 and sucking that up pretty bad.  Got tired of running back to Brad to get shot again and just enjoy the mall.  I need to try switching the aim camera thing because that throws me off big time.

I also love that I can't do anything while Otis prattles on in his stupid textbox.  No voiceovers or am I deaf?

I'm going to find some enjoyment in this game.  Just sick of doing the same thing over and over because I get myself killed.  Lawnmower over the zombies is good clean fun, though.

Camera store has batteries for the camera.
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« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2006, 09:46:22 PM »

It's been hard for me to really get into the game so far.  I just finished that part Stiff is talking about - I didn't know I just needed to talk to Brad or whoever to get ammo - I resorted to throwing plates for a good 15 minutes or so.  Yeah, I'm a tard like that.

But pretty much right after that (early game spoilers):

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was rescuing (or, rather, trying to rescue) two survivors and I decided to go through that park or whatever to get to the warehouse - those convicts with the "Killer Jeap of Death" spawn and I can't even make it from side to side with that thing flying around and killing me

So that kinda sucks.  Aside from that, I'm enjoying it . . . sans the save system.  Personally, I don't like it, but I'm not going to go further into that.
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« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2006, 11:58:19 PM »

Quote from: depward on August 13, 2006, 09:46:22 PM

It's been hard for me to really get into the game so far.  I just finished that part Stiff is talking about - I didn't know I just needed to talk to Brad or whoever to get ammo - I resorted to throwing plates for a good 15 minutes or so.  Yeah, I'm a tard like that.

But pretty much right after that (early game spoilers):

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was rescuing (or, rather, trying to rescue) two survivors and I decided to go through that park or whatever to get to the warehouse - those convicts with the "Killer Jeap of Death" spawn and I can't even make it from side to side with that thing flying around and killing me

So that kinda sucks.  Aside from that, I'm enjoying it . . . sans the save system.  Personally, I don't like it, but I'm not going to go further into that.

Here's what I did to take care of the convicts...

When you restart the game, if you head straight for the gunstore you can get in there and the crazy guy won't be there. Stock up on shotguns and sniper rifles. Then, when the convicts show up, leave the park and re-enter. They'll usually be on the other side of the park, if not just leave and re-enter again until they are. Wander around until you find a relatively clean area with a view of the convicts. Then, just pick them off with the sniper rifle (takes about 4 shots a piece) while watching your back to make sure no zombies sneak up on you.

This worked well for me, though they respawned a bit later. I just sniped them again though.
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« Reply #110 on: August 14, 2006, 02:44:38 AM »

I can take zombies respawning, but why exactly would the convicts and jeep? slywink

oooh, I like this smiley  ninja2
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« Reply #111 on: August 14, 2006, 03:42:52 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on August 14, 2006, 02:44:38 AM

I can take zombies respawning, but why exactly would the convicts and jeep? slywink

oooh, I like this smiley  ninja2

I don't know. I was fairly pissed when it first happened, but once I realized it meant I got another heavy machine gun I cheered up slywink.
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« Reply #112 on: August 14, 2006, 05:43:21 AM »

Quote from: godhugh on August 13, 2006, 11:58:19 PM

Quote from: depward on August 13, 2006, 09:46:22 PM

It's been hard for me to really get into the game so far.  I just finished that part Stiff is talking about - I didn't know I just needed to talk to Brad or whoever to get ammo - I resorted to throwing plates for a good 15 minutes or so.  Yeah, I'm a tard like that.

But pretty much right after that (early game spoilers):

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was rescuing (or, rather, trying to rescue) two survivors and I decided to go through that park or whatever to get to the warehouse - those convicts with the "Killer Jeap of Death" spawn and I can't even make it from side to side with that thing flying around and killing me

So that kinda sucks.  Aside from that, I'm enjoying it . . . sans the save system.  Personally, I don't like it, but I'm not going to go further into that.

Here's what I did to take care of the convicts...

When you restart the game, if you head straight for the gunstore you can get in there and the crazy guy won't be there. Stock up on shotguns and sniper rifles. Then, when the convicts show up, leave the park and re-enter. They'll usually be on the other side of the park, if not just leave and re-enter again until they are. Wander around until you find a relatively clean area with a view of the convicts. Then, just pick them off with the sniper rifle (takes about 4 shots a piece) while watching your back to make sure no zombies sneak up on you.

This worked well for me, though they respawned a bit later. I just sniped them again though.
Cool, I'll have to try that out.  Thanks for the tip!
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« Reply #113 on: August 14, 2006, 12:27:11 PM »

Think I will be sending this back to Gamefly.  I just can't get this game and I LOVED Resident Evil.   They made some design decision that makes the game rather unfun for me.   thumbsdown on this game for me
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« Reply #114 on: August 14, 2006, 02:53:05 PM »

I've been playing this game nearly too much, and it is just too much fun. As I level up, I get better at zombie killing, but then it seems that the zombies are more numerous and more angry (even in the day). I'm less than a day away from finishing up the cases and I am still having a blast with them. They're pretty varied (as much as possible in this game) and fun.
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« Reply #115 on: August 14, 2006, 06:27:34 PM »

Quote from: depward on August 13, 2006, 09:46:22 PM

It's been hard for me to really get into the game so far.  I just finished that part Stiff is talking about - I didn't know I just needed to talk to Brad or whoever to get ammo - I resorted to throwing plates for a good 15 minutes or so.  Yeah, I'm a tard like that.

But pretty much right after that (early game spoilers):

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was rescuing (or, rather, trying to rescue) two survivors and I decided to go through that park or whatever to get to the warehouse - those convicts with the "Killer Jeap of Death" spawn and I can't even make it from side to side with that thing flying around and killing me

So that kinda sucks.  Aside from that, I'm enjoying it . . . sans the save system.  Personally, I don't like it, but I'm not going to go further into that.

There's an alternate way to deal with the "incident" in the park. It's a bit tricky, but it's a nice longterm solution.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Otis will give you a call about the ride in Wonderland going out of control. When you inspect the ride console, you'll run into a psychopath. (Adam the scary clown.) After you defeat him, head back to the console. When you do so, you'll free Greg, who will show you  a shortcut between Wonderland and the part of the mall just outside the warehouse. Using this shortcut will save you a great deal of time throughout the rest of the game, and allow you to never have to enter the park. Well, at least until act 5.

Also, if you enter the park at night, the jeep's headlights make it easier to avoid it, since you can see it from a great ways off.
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« Reply #116 on: August 14, 2006, 06:37:34 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on August 14, 2006, 12:27:11 PM

Think I will be sending this back to Gamefly.  I just can't get this game and I LOVED Resident Evil.   They made some design decision that makes the game rather unfun for me.   thumbsdown on this game for me
Well, I think the first problem is that you're comparing it to Resident Evil.   retard
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« Reply #117 on: August 14, 2006, 06:47:37 PM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on August 14, 2006, 06:37:34 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on August 14, 2006, 12:27:11 PM

Think I will be sending this back to Gamefly.  I just can't get this game and I LOVED Resident Evil.   They made some design decision that makes the game rather unfun for me.   thumbsdown on this game for me
Well, I think the first problem is that you're comparing it to Resident Evil.   retard

well it is about zombies.. err infected frenchmen or something? ..and to be honest, when I'm trying to aim the gun, it rotates about as fast as RE and I can't seem to walk, like RE... of course my solution is to avoid guns smile
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« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2006, 07:31:30 PM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on August 14, 2006, 06:37:34 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on August 14, 2006, 12:27:11 PM

Think I will be sending this back to Gamefly.  I just can't get this game and I LOVED Resident Evil.   They made some design decision that makes the game rather unfun for me.   thumbsdown on this game for me
Well, I think the first problem is that you're comparing it to Resident Evil.   retard


Well, considering it is a Survival Horror game what else can I compare it too.  The game is quite unwieldy for me in it's current form.  Not having fun cause of the design decisions.    I see the greatness in the game, but for me the underlying issues I have just isn't fun for me.  I really have no problem with the save system, but escort mission are crappy , aiming issues with guns and not being able to choose my own leveling path are just some of my issues. 

Again, the game isn't for me in it's current form.  I haven't sent it back yet as I might try to give it one more go if I can force myself to load it up again tonight
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« Reply #119 on: August 14, 2006, 08:31:28 PM »

I ended up picking this up and playing it over the weekend.  At its core is a great game.  Wrapped around it are numerous questionable design decisions that really detract from the experience.  Overall, it's a much harder game than it needs to be, especially at the start.

1. Save system - Clunky.  This game badly needs save anywhere and multiple save slots.  Let me save once before I trigger a boss fight and once right after it starts.  As it is I have to hoof it back to the fight, wait for the cut-scene to load, skip the cut-scene and then wait for it to reload back to the gameplay.  Repeat for the 7 times I attempted the 2nd Carlito fight before restarting.
2. Forced replay - It's designed around restarting at least once and is a must to accomplish all the goals.  As it is I feel I need to work up to around level 10 before I even attempt a real run at the story.
3. Aiming - Auto-lock-on and strafing should've been no brainers (braaaaiiins) for a game about mass slaughter.  Changing to Camera focus instead of Player helped a little.  But you have to stand in one place and it...moves...so....slow.  Guns are nigh useless.
3. Timed missions - Erg.  Not enough time to accomplish your goals without #2.  The main Case missions should've just been on a when-you-get-to-them trigger.
5. Follower AI - They stop and fight everything and try their darndest to get themselves killed.  Just keep running, dang it!
6. Item degradation - The current system is frustrating.  Alleviated by carrying around a bunch of books, but you have to go back to #2 to build up enough slots for them.  Then when I'm trying to swap items mid-fight I end up swatting zombies.
7. Otis/Voiceovers - The lack of voiceovers elicits one of these: :icon_confused:.  And stop f'in calling me like some co-dependent lover.  At least give me an ear piece so I can defend myself.

I've been getting quite a few helpful hints (such as picking up a specific book and weapon combo) and tips on beating the bosses.  But overall the frustration is wearing me down.  At least I've gone from wanting to smash my entire entertainment system to just smashing a controller.  Progress.  icon_smile  I will continue to put some more time in with it this week, though.  A+ for potential, C- for execution.
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