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Author Topic: Dawn of War Skirmish Mode  (Read 5452 times)
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2005, 04:33:21 AM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Black Templars are getting a big push in the table top game.  A lot of new units and background coming out for them.  They are like medieval crusaders in their looks, with those iron crosses, tabards, and the fact they are all on a permanent crusade to prove their worth.  The black armor also looks great.


Wow...I was playing those in 4th edition when all that exsisted was their unit symbol and paint scheme.  WD published a special unit called Champion of the emporer or somesuch. smile  I might have to break out the minis again.  Black Templars are my signature army.
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SuperHiro
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« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2005, 05:49:46 PM »

The pink things got a big boost, they are essentially Chaos's only real anti-veh unit (I think, Obliterators too I guess).  Chaos basically is all melee.  I've never had a problem handling them though.  Maybe you got worked by Beserkers?  I'll skirmish against them as Orks on standard and see how I do.
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Lockdown
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« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2005, 06:20:02 PM »

Hiro -  You must be pretty happy with the old Ork boyz.  I have been playing with them since the release of W.A. - and they are a blast!

LD
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Doomboy
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« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2005, 08:04:05 PM »

Yeah, I did get worked over as the space marines, I am pretty sure a bunch of the ones doing the working over were the berzerkers too.  I tried to get some Dreadnaughts into the fray to take out the berzerkers, but the horrors just took them down before they could do anything.

I used to be pretty good with Space Marines.  Dawn of War was the only RTS game I was ever able to play on Hard.  Now Standard level is kicking my butt, at least the Chaos Marines side is.

I figured I had a chance as the Orks, but I forgot how to play them (if I ever really knew how), and they took me out quicker than they took me out as the space marines.

I have heard they made the whirlwinds effective again.  I know I never used to bother with them in the old Dawn of War.  All the rockets were good for was destroying buildings and by the time I could build whirlwinds, I had plenty of other units who could destroy buildings AND enemy units.  I guess I am going to have to rethink my strategies.  Which isn't a bad thing, as long as I manage to figure out a way to defeat the Chaos Marines...
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Lockdown
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« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2005, 08:27:46 PM »

Hellfire Dreads are now effective against human type units.  Keep that in mind.  And I would agree with the notion that whirlwinds are way cool now.
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Calvin
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« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2005, 09:23:14 PM »

I am quite unhappy with the Whirlwind. I think its overpowered and don't like DOW getting away from nasty, gritty, close-combat action over long range artillery battles.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2005, 10:13:48 PM »

Some aspects of the AI play during skirmish games seems improved, but it still does boneheaded things.  I tried standard last night just to see if I noticed any changes, and while the AI seemed faster, it still did dumb things like only build and rush cultists, guardians, and scouts for the first 10 mins or so.  All I had to do was crank out 2 SM squads, 1 scout squad, and go kill the AI.  Scout squad captures, the SM squads kill off the AI tier 1 light infantry rush, all while upgrading my tech.  By the time I started upgrading to missle launchers and plasma, my 2 SM squads were always standing in the AI base.  

The only race I think the AI plays really well is Ork at the lower difficulty levels.  

I did notice that the AI made me pay hard if I tried to turtle while ramping up my tech.  Before I even made it to tier 3 there were obliterators, possesed marines, and horrors rushing my base when I tried to turtle against chaos.  I don't remember the AI being that fast to tech up if I left it alone.

The AI still does questionable things like build up a good attack force and then park them at a strategic point or relic, despite having wiped out a chunk of my defense and base just moments earlier.
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Doomboy
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« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2005, 10:33:49 PM »

Well, I usually try to turtle and get my tech up before heading out on the attack.  Maybe I am just screwed now.  

I don't like it when the game ends after only 12 minutes of play.  Which is how long it took to beat the AI on that 1 vs. 1 river map.  He rushed, he lost the rush, I went into his base, the game was essentially over.

Rushing seems to end the game fast.  Either you win by rushing, or you fail the rush and then you can't recover from it.  I never will understand why that has turned into the standard RTS move.  It seems like it is just completely random whether a rush will fail or not, unless your opponent is just unprepared for one, and who is not at least somewhat prepared for it these days?

But turtling seems like it won't work either, because the Chaos Marines just hand me my ass when I play with my usual tactics.  I don't really know what to do.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2005, 11:17:34 PM »

I can't turtle against chaos either with SMs, the AI is too fast building up resources and teching up.  The only way for me to beat them is to go on the attack right from the start.  Have you tried a team game with another ally?  Those are pretty fun, and last long enough to feel better than a 12 minute 1v1 map rush victory.

 I think you'd need to have a good build order and tech plan to keep pace trying to turtle SMs against chaos.
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Lockdown
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« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2005, 12:24:56 PM »

Doomboy - You may want to take roguetad's advice and turn your 1 vs 1 into 2 vs 2.  Add a computer AI onto your side.  This may turn the game into more of what you are looking for.  Just a thought.  And some general tips if you are playing on Standard to help you fine-tune difficulty:
1) AI is not so good with Eldar
2) AI is average with IG
3) AI is good with Chaos IF you let them tech up.
2) AI is good with Space Marines IF you let them tech up.
3) AI is good with Orcs

- - - - -

Dreamshadow - Did you see this.  It's quoted from the upcoming White Dwarf Magazine:

Crusaders of the Emperor: Soon the Black Templars will take the Emperor's light to the dark corners of the galaxy once more with a brand new Codex. Graham McNeil dons his power armour and gives us a taste of what to expect in Codex: Black Templars.

LD
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2005, 02:08:13 PM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"

Dreamshadow - Did you see this.  It's quoted from the upcoming White Dwarf Magazine:

Crusaders of the Emperor: Soon the Black Templars will take the Emperor's light to the dark corners of the galaxy once more with a brand new Codex. Graham McNeil dons his power armour and gives us a taste of what to expect in Codex: Black Templars.

LD



Oooo...urge to get back into hobby rising....must go play more to quell urge.
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Tom "Dreamshadow" Tjarks
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CrayolaSmoker
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« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2005, 02:37:38 PM »

Quote from: "Dreamshadow"
Oooo...urge to get back into hobby rising....must go play more to quell urge.


Weren't you one of the ones that got out after the last major price hike?  If so, remember what you USED to get for $30.  Think about what you NOW get for $30.  I do this not to be mean, but to be your friend.  biggrin
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2005, 03:39:19 PM »

Thanks CS.   I played for a little while, when I frequented a FLGS.  I've got two squads of 4th ed Space Marines, and an unassembled Rhino.  I've not actually played Warhammer 40K in about four years.  The game has tempted me some, mostly because I like a chunk of the minis that are out there...but I'm not fond of the rules system.  The way they have used 2d6 for the target ranges really bugs me.  (I have the same complaint about blood bowl)  It's good for simplicity's sake, but then they have pages of special abilities instead.  So I just drool at the minis that I can't paint (especially the Tau and Necron) and dream.
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Tom "Dreamshadow" Tjarks
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CrayolaSmoker
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« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2005, 04:42:00 PM »

The minis and "history" are neat, no doubt.  And there's something magical about a well-painted 40K or Fantasy Battles army.  There's almost always somebody playing when we're playing FoW, and I love lookin' at the figures.

But everything I've heard about the game since I started wargaming (this past summer) has been negative, whether it be about the pricing or the ruleset.  Once I get my PC working again, I plan to check out Dawn of War and Winter Assault, as it sounds like a great way to have fun in the universe with a fraction of the expense and none of the hastle.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2005, 07:18:13 PM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
Once I get my PC working again, I plan to check out Dawn of War and Winter Assault, as it sounds like a great way to have fun in the universe with a fraction of the expense and none of the hastle.


Exactly.  I get the whole painting the minis as part of the entire hobby, but I don’t have the time or interest to build a bunch of miniatures and paint them.  I think GW would make a ton more money if they sold 2 lines of miniatures:  
1.   Just like they are now: you assemble and paint the minis.  
2.   Pre-made and painted.  

I’d actually buy some of the unit minis if they were already assembled and painted.  The folks that play the tabletop version could continue to build and paint their minis as part of the hobby, and lazy people like me could just order complete models or sets to strategically place around their home.  If I was brave enough to bear my true inner nerd at work, I’d actually setup a few near my workstation.  Sadly, I’m not that brave.  I like living my clark kent – ubernerd duality…nobody will know my true identity!  Except my family, but they’ve known I’ve been a dork for a long time.
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stiffler
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« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2005, 10:03:22 PM »

I just read about it.  Never bought a single mini.  That said, I do have a few of the Codexes.  Don't think I'm really that interested in playing the table top game to be honest.  I do love checking out those Golden Daemon winners in WD, though!
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Doomboy
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« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2005, 08:23:36 PM »

After playing a few skirmishes with an AI buddy vs Chaos, I have discovered that I move too slowly.  He always goes on the attack early and just as I am building my "Ultimate Force of Doom", he has things pretty much wrapped up.

Not sure if there is a way of doing it so that I can enjoy playing against the computer's Chaos.  So far, the other sides haven't given me nearly as much trouble.

Oh well.  I guess I will either have to pick my enemies and never choose Chaos, or put up with having the computer kick my ass when it randomly chooses Chaos as my enemy.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2005, 05:07:29 AM »

Try setting the game speed in the skirmish options menu to slow or very slow.  On slow I have time to analyze the map, make decisions, and not feel overwhelmed by the fast pace action.  Very slow is too slow for my tastes, but slow works ok.  I never play online, so playing on slow suits me.  I like being able to check out the detail of the fights and the units and not have to freak out trying to manage 5 things at once.
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Doomboy
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« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2005, 08:11:00 AM »

I will try setting the speed to slow and see how it goes.  I have a feeling that having it move slower will take away the visceral joy of watching a dreadnaught shred an orc though.

We will see if it makes a difference to me.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2005, 11:48:25 AM »

Slow isn't too bad, very slow does take away from the action imo.
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Doomboy
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« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2005, 02:17:00 AM »

Okay, slow isn't bad at all! I played it, and had time to do things like build new units while combat was raging, and the combat didn't look like it was running in slow motion.  Things were just slow enough to be able to strategize a bit, but everything still looked cool.

So I guess I play in slow mode now, and see if I can take on Chaos.  I will not rest until I am able to reliable defeat the forces of Chaos!!!!
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